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A substantial conservative win
Orange County Register ^ | 29 June 2012 | George Will

Posted on 06/29/2012 2:02:48 PM PDT by OldNavyVet

"Conservatives won a substantial victory on Thursday. The physics of American politics - actions provoking reactions - continues to move the crucial debate about the nature of the American regime, toward conservativism. Chief Justice Roberts has served this cause."

(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: conservative; constitution; obamacare
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George Will presents a good analysis on Justice Roberts Health Care decision.
1 posted on 06/29/2012 2:02:52 PM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: OldNavyVet

If this was a “win”, I hate to see what a loss looks like.


2 posted on 06/29/2012 2:04:20 PM PDT by Signalman ( November, 2012-The End of an Error)
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To: OldNavyVet

George Will is an idiot. this is a loss.

I think his Toupe glue is leaking into his brain. This is a huge loss for all people who believe in a free society!


3 posted on 06/29/2012 2:06:18 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: administrator

Mispelled conservative in title. Sorry


4 posted on 06/29/2012 2:07:28 PM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: OldNavyVet
George Will presents a good analysis on Justice Roberts Health Care decision.

LOL You need to listen to Mark Levin's show from last night.

5 posted on 06/29/2012 2:07:49 PM PDT by Da Bilge Troll (Defeatism is not a winning strategy!)
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To: OldNavyVet

Win?

The infliction of STATISM and the destruction
of what was written in the Constitution is NOT a ‘win’.

THAT may be good enuf for a RomneyBOT (proROMNEYCARE
and ROMNEY-deathPANELS and RomneyTAXES’called fees’)
BUT it is not good enough for any conservative.

This proves the importance of NO RINOs. NO Statism.


6 posted on 06/29/2012 2:08:09 PM PDT by Diogenesis ("Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. " Pres. Ronald Reagan)
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To: OldNavyVet

George Will is the classic example of what living in D.C. for some thirty odd years does to a conservative.


7 posted on 06/29/2012 2:08:18 PM PDT by JohnLongIsland
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To: OldNavyVet
George Will presents a good analysis on Justice Roberts Health Care decision.

No he doesn't. It's fantisifical gobildy-gook.

June 28th, 2012 will always be a historic day in American History. It will be the official start of a political revolution that starts us on a path toward radical exceptionalism and prosperity or it will be the day that sealed America's fate along the long downward slide into European mediocrity.

I personnally wouldn't bet on the political revolution lasting any more than 2 or 3 years, or as soon as the economy is "deemed" recovered.

8 posted on 06/29/2012 2:08:56 PM PDT by Tenacious 1 (The Click-&-Paste Media exists & works in Utopia, riding unicorns & sniffing pixy dust.)
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To: Jim from C-Town; Signalman

Please read the article ...


9 posted on 06/29/2012 2:09:25 PM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: Signalman
If this was a “win”, I hate to see what a loss looks like.

No kidding. Anyone trying to spin this ruling as anything other than a fraud and in obvious violation of the Constitution is either and idiot, an agenda driven troll or in complete denial of what just happened to our Republic.

Anyone who is awake needs to get ready for the next phase, and that means quit yapping and start acting.

10 posted on 06/29/2012 2:09:24 PM PDT by JOAT
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bfl


11 posted on 06/29/2012 2:10:43 PM PDT by hoosiermama ( Obama: " born in Kenya.".. he's lying now or then?)
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To: Jim from C-Town

That silver lining George sees is the border that divides republicans and conservatives.

Politically (and only politically) this is a win for republicans.

It IS a loss for Conservatism, for America and all who loved her.


12 posted on 06/29/2012 2:11:35 PM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com/)
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To: Da Bilge Troll

George Will is obviously republican first and conservative second (if he’s conservative at all).


13 posted on 06/29/2012 2:12:56 PM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com/)
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To: Signalman
"If this was a “win”, I hate to see what a loss looks like."

I understand your frustration over this whole mess, hell the ZERO reign since day one.
I really think this will wake up conservatives like nothing else could.
of course I would have preferred that the SC had struck it down as it is unconstitutional. But since they didn't I have gotten over my sick feeling and realize how it could help.
We have several tapes of ZERO saying it isn't a TAX. One had George Stephanapolis asking him if it is a tax.
Hang in there ZERO is toast, this just adds fuel to the fire.

14 posted on 06/29/2012 2:13:17 PM PDT by DeaconRed (My vote in Nov will be dictated by my extreme hatred for ZERO and what he is doing to our country.)
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To: JOAT

We need to get control of the Senate....Here’s one group that is working on it.

http://www.nrsc.org/


15 posted on 06/29/2012 2:13:22 PM PDT by hoosiermama ( Obama: " born in Kenya.".. he's lying now or then?)
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To: OldNavyVet

I don’t find this to be a good analysis. I think George Will has gone over the fence and out to pasture, mentally, if you know what I mean. Roberts did recognize that the Commerce clause does not permit regulating non-Commerce, because it was obvious to everyone.
I still think it is likely that he had ulterior motives for finding a way to uphold Obamacare ...like keeping his family alive.
Will sees a victory where there is nothing but an increase in the lawlessness of government. I do not...


16 posted on 06/29/2012 2:14:24 PM PDT by ez (When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.)
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To: All
I, too, almost choked on the decision; but George Will's analysis changed my mind.

The article might pep you up.

17 posted on 06/29/2012 2:14:41 PM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: OldNavyVet

Of interest, Republicans tried to do in courts what they could not do in Congress. In effect the court took the position it was a law and to tell Congress to fix it themselves. Funny, court conservatives wanted the court to decide. Strange twist.


18 posted on 06/29/2012 2:14:58 PM PDT by ex-snook (without forgivness is without Christianity)
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To: OldNavyVet

George Will is a mental midget who was impressed that someone came up with a way to uphold Obamacare that he had not considered.

Like a child who is suddenly exposed to a new idea and is overwhelmed by it, Goerge Will is mistakenly impressed with Roberts’s decision when he should be appalled.

Lacking the intellectual capacity to really analyze what happened, he defaults to his suck-up position and tries to spin a disaster into a success. George Will is a clown. Pure and simple. He’s just given us a big laugh.


19 posted on 06/29/2012 2:17:38 PM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: OldNavyVet

Spin for a win
20 posted on 06/29/2012 2:18:04 PM PDT by ari-freedom
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To: ex-snook
In effect the court took the position it was a law and to tell Congress to fix it themselves

I agree with you. Will's article shows good thinking

21 posted on 06/29/2012 2:19:03 PM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: OldNavyVet
George Will is an idiot. In no way whatsoever is the Roberts ruling a victory of any sort.

Roberts' vote and his written drivel represent a huge failure of his 'conservatism.' He too proved that he is indeed an idiot or senile. (If not compromised through some sexual misbehavior being held over his head.)

22 posted on 06/29/2012 2:25:58 PM PDT by Ron C.
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To: OldNavyVet
This was a loss, at least as bad as the Alamo and Pearl Harbor - or worse because we were betrayed by our own.

Perhaps it will motivate us to fight, and we'll win the next battle. With luck and a little bit of learning, we may stay serious long enough to take our country back and win this war against communism, socialism, and other variants of big government fascism, but yesterday was a major defeat for freedom.

23 posted on 06/29/2012 2:28:35 PM PDT by Pollster1 (A boy becomes a man when a man is needed - John Steinbeck)
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To: OldNavyVet

I already did. It doesn’t matter the machinations of a beltway excuse for a Conservative. This is an unmitigated disaster in every aspect for the country. Every Aspect! Even if Romney takes the White House and the Republicans Take the Senate by 61 seats, Does anyone believe that they will have the guts to actually get rid of this monstrosity? We are now stuck in the universe of tinkering with Government run health care for the foreseeable future. We would be better off to have been taken over by the Soviets, at least they dole out copious amounts Vodka and Cigarettes!


24 posted on 06/29/2012 2:29:08 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: OldNavyVet
continues to move the crucial debate about the nature of the American regime, toward conservativism

Unfortunately it continues to turn the ratchet of American government towards leftism. The best the Republicans can do when the Democrats tell us to drink a glass of poison is to negotiate it down to a half glass now and a half glass later.

25 posted on 06/29/2012 2:30:44 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (You only have three billion heartbeats in a lifetime.How many does the government claim as its own?)
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To: OldNavyVet

Striking the thing down completely would have been the best decision, obviously. But then Obama wouldn’t have had to defend it during the campaign. He would have said that he needs to be re-elected so he could appoint even more liberals to the court to insure Obamacare would get passed, “next time”.

But this decision gives Romney, and the rest of the GOP, a big opportunity to fire up the base, and it looks like it’s already happening, with Romney collecting 4.3M bucks in the last 24 hours. This could make 2010 look like a walk in the park IF the pubbies can effectively take advantage of the situation.

But Romney has to come up with a lot more than, “If I’m elected, I’ll get rid of Obamacare”. He has to present a plan to vastly improve healthcare with free-market competitive solutions and ideas. Because the Dems are going to say, “What would you replace it with?” And he’s got to have a very good, and convincing, answer.


26 posted on 06/29/2012 2:34:45 PM PDT by Signalman ( November, 2012-The End of an Error)
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To: JohnLongIsland

George Will lives in South Carolina.


27 posted on 06/29/2012 2:36:13 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: tsowellfan
"George Will is obviously republican first and conservative second (if he’s conservative at all)."

That might easily be said to fit Justice Roberts now.

What he did, in voting as he did, was hand this socialist government a huge win. He could have voted with the other conservatives and killed this monster in its tracks - but NO... HE TRIED TO GET CUTE, AND HAND THE DEMOCRATS A WIN!

As it is, I think Ginsberg has a photo of him naked in his office with a cute little staffer, to blackmail him with!

28 posted on 06/29/2012 2:36:24 PM PDT by Ron C.
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To: ez
Roberts did recognize that the Commerce clause does not permit regulating non-Commerce, because it was obvious to everyone.

Nonsense. It certainly was not obvious to everyone. Look, I'm as disappointed as anyone that Obamacare stands, but Roberts's opinion on the Commerce Clause is earth-shattering to liberals. Will's analysis, as always, is very good.

29 posted on 06/29/2012 2:39:55 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: OldNavyVet
Photobucket

Attempts by Sophists such as Will to spin this into a "win" are nearly as amateurish, silly, ill-reasoned and internally inconsistent as Roberts' opinion for the Majority.

Nearly.

The decision is predicated upon a notion that the authority to tax may be based on nothing more than Congress' Constitutional authority to tax under the first article of the Constitution. However, the authority itself derives from a requirement that Congress may only raise taxes to achieve what is "necessary and proper" in the pursuit of its specifically enumerated powers. This is made clear in Article I, which adds a further requirement: that the enumerated powers are further restricted to only those things which promote the "general welfare."

Example: Congress is granted the specific authority to create post offices. Therefore, it may raise taxes to obtain that effect (necessary and proper) but it may not create a post office just for the benefit of Fred Zarguna (because it would be solely for my benefit and a few of my friends, and would not promote the general welfare of the United States.)

Therefore, it was incumbent upon proponents of this law to place their finger upon some part of the Constitution wherein an authority to regulate health insurance companies was granted. Grasping at a legal straw, the liberals reverted to an old favorite: the Commerce Clause. But the Court ridiculed that notion, and Roberts himself made it clear that theauthority for the mandate could not come from that source. Nor could it come from the "necessary and proper" advancement of the whole act, as again, Roberts himself argued.

But now, we have a larger problem than we had before, because Roberts -- writing on behalf of his liberal majority -- has claimed that the authority to tax for any purpose whatsoever is contained in the Constitution, a laughable position that even the most rabid liberal has never (until now) advanced as a legal theory. The argument is either circular (you have the authority to tax because taxation itself is necessary and proper) or advances a claim concerning implied powers under general welfare which has never before been proposed.

In effect, all restrictions on the legislative power have been swept away by this decision. Any law is now Constitutional provided only that a fine, penalty or tax is imposed.

Yes, it's that bad. But it actually gets worse...

Because hitherto, the Court would not even have granted Cert in a tax case until someone with standing came forward to challenge the law. In fact, the Court could not do so even if it wanted to, because of the Anti-Injunction Act, and no one will actually be "taxed" by the mandate until 2014. In the instant case, the Court has used thoroughly tortured logic to claim that: 1) Even though the mandate is a tax 2) the AIA doesn't apply, because Congress did not believe it was a tax when it was passed.

Howzzat again?

That's right, the majority has not only destroyed the concept of limited government with this ruling, but the Court itself actually broke the law in even allowing the case to be heard.

But wait, it gets even worse...

Because Roberts' opinion also holds that even though the "tax" is not the kind of tax permitted in the first article of the Constitution, and even though the "tax" is also not a tax on incomes covered by Amendment XVI, it is a valid tax (of what kind he does not say) and the existing case law already permits it.

This is an entirely new doctrine: preemptive Constitutionality. No Court has ever ruled in the past that the provisions of a law which as yet affects no one is Constitutional/Unconstitutional. Roberts' opinion signals exactly that. (See my previous posts for a quote from the majority.)

Bottom line: this is the Dred Scott/Roe v. Wade of the 21st Century. June 28th, 2012: A date which shall live in Infamy.

It's really that bad.

30 posted on 06/29/2012 2:45:01 PM PDT by FredZarguna (When you find yourself arguing against Scalia and Thomas, you AREN'T a conservative.)
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To: OldNavyVet

Just like a football team that loses by 50+ points is a win because next week they will try harder. /sarcasm


31 posted on 06/29/2012 2:45:01 PM PDT by Codeflier (Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama - 4 democrat presidents in a row and counting...)
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To: OldNavyVet

If Will thinks this is a win, maybe he is a closet Democrat?


32 posted on 06/29/2012 2:45:54 PM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag (Boiling tea makes it stronger. I'm a Tea Party Patriot...and I AM BOILING!!!)
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To: ez
Roberts did recognize that the Commerce clause does not permit regulating non-Commerce, because it was obvious to everyone.

Nonsense. It certainly was not obvious to everyone. Look, I'm as disappointed as anyone that Obamacare stands, but Roberts's opinion on the Commerce Clause is earth-shattering to liberals.

Since the thirties, the Commerce Clause has been the catch-all justification for every single expansion of the federal government's power. If it's ever tried again, this new precedent will be the crux of any legal argument against it.

Will's analysis is, as always, very good.

33 posted on 06/29/2012 2:45:54 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: OldNavyVet

” A Substantial Crock of Crap!”


34 posted on 06/29/2012 2:46:25 PM PDT by Repulican Donkey
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To: OldNavyVet
Mark Steyn's thoughts on this article:

"I have great respect for George Will, but his assertion that the Supreme Court decision is a "huge victory" that will "help revive a venerable tradition" of "viewing congressional actions with a skeptical constitutional squint" and lead to a "sharpening" of "many Americans' constitutional consciousness" is sufficiently delusional that one trusts mental health is not grounds for priority check-in at the death panel."

35 posted on 06/29/2012 2:47:24 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: OldNavyVet
George should do himself and the readers a favor and cut back on the showoff nouns adjectives and verbs

High faluten language is not needed and instead of impressing coveys a sense of snobbery unless done in the style of WJB

36 posted on 06/29/2012 2:48:44 PM PDT by uncbob
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To: OldNavyVet

Back up george and try again. Establishment Repubs are the biggest liars around. No one believes you twits any longer!!!


37 posted on 06/29/2012 2:49:14 PM PDT by formosa (Formosa)
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To: Pollster1

I think of the Alamo as a victory, it created the win of the war with the loss of a 185 men or so, their personal loss in battle accomplished more than they could have known.


38 posted on 06/29/2012 2:49:21 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: BfloGuy
Rubbish.

If the reasoning had been used in support of overturning the law, it would be useful. Since it is used in support of an argument that the it can't be used to overturn the law (because the law is upheld for a different reason altogether) it is nothing more than obiter dicta.

Not bone-crushing argument. Not precedent. And not binding on any future or any lower court. Roberts' knew full well that this was the case, and added those throw-away lines to mollify self-deluding "conservatives."

This is a devastating betrayal and an absolute disaster for the Republic. The far reaching consequences of tax-based legal justification will actually be -- if it's possible to imagine -- WORSE than 0bamacare.

39 posted on 06/29/2012 2:53:12 PM PDT by FredZarguna (When you find yourself arguing against Scalia and Thomas, you AREN'T a conservative.)
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To: dead
Steyn, you magnificent bastard!

George, those are your guts there on the floor...

40 posted on 06/29/2012 2:55:41 PM PDT by FredZarguna (When you find yourself arguing against Scalia and Thomas, you AREN'T a conservative.)
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To: OldNavyVet

The DNC Executive tweeted an even better analysis:

“It’s Constitutional. Bitches.”

Will is imagining a silver lining around a dark cloud. But a Cat 5 hurricane has no silver lining.


41 posted on 06/29/2012 2:56:47 PM PDT by Skepolitic
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To: ex-snook
Of interest, Republicans tried to do in courts what they could not do in Congress. In effect the court took the position it was a law and to tell Congress to fix it themselves. Funny, court conservatives wanted the court to decide. Strange twist.

Fix it? The question isn't whether or not it was broken or flawed, but whether it was unconstitutional. This decision erased all distinction between penalty and tax. Well, not exactly - it's more like quantum physics, where an electron can be bot a particle and a wave at the same time. Depemding on how you squint at it, you might see either form. The charge for not having medical insurance of the specified form can be seen as a penalty or a tax depending on how you need it to be seen.

What the Republicans wanted to do in court was to stop what the constitution should have prevented them from doing in Congress.

The court just ruled that there are absolutely no limits on the Federal power of taxation.

George Will is an idiot.

42 posted on 06/29/2012 3:00:46 PM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
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To: Skepolitic
The DNC Executive tweeted an even better analysis: “It’s Constitutional. Bitches.”

And that's what precisely 90% of Americans are going to take away from all of this.

43 posted on 06/29/2012 3:01:24 PM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: smoothsailing

That’s his vacation home, he lives in D.C. satelite Chevy Chase...


44 posted on 06/29/2012 3:03:50 PM PDT by JohnLongIsland
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To: smoothsailing

That’s his vacation home, he lives in D.C. satelite Chevy Chase...


45 posted on 06/29/2012 3:04:05 PM PDT by JohnLongIsland
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To: Codeflier
Just like a football team that loses by 50+ points is a win because next week they will try harder. /sarcasm

Or as a former Gator assistant football coach, Steve Addazio, would say after another loss, "They graded out as 'Champions.'"

46 posted on 06/29/2012 3:04:33 PM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: Pollster1

Agree with you and everyone on this thread who posted that Roberts is somewhere between a disappointment and a betrayal and George Will is a stuffed shirt sell out.


47 posted on 06/29/2012 3:09:24 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: slowhandluke
The case challenged the court to fashion a judicially administrable principle that limits Congress' power to act on the mere pretense of regulating interstate commerce. At least Roberts got the court to embrace emphatic language rejecting the Commerce Clause rationale for penalizing the inactivity of not buying insurance.

I consider 'George Will is an idiot' to be simply a truth of nature. But just to check, I went to the article to find out what 'win' he saw. I was right, he was an idiot. What the decision says is that the left can stop trying to squeeze through the window of the commerce clause. They can now walk through the open barn door of the power to tax.

Yes, the window is shut, George, but the horses are out and the barn door is now wide open. Idiot.

48 posted on 06/29/2012 3:23:26 PM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
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To: JohnLongIsland

He probably spends little time in Chevy Chase. He’s pretty old, odds are his vacation home has gradually evolved into his retirement home.


49 posted on 06/29/2012 3:29:16 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: OldNavyVet

It’s way too early to know all the ramifications of the decision, but as you can see, a lot of folks around here want to be losers, no matter the actual circumstance.


50 posted on 06/29/2012 3:32:30 PM PDT by SaxxonWoods (....The days are long, but the years are short.....)
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