Posted on 07/01/2012 8:25:31 PM PDT by DogByte6RER
“Would You Take Away Guns From Law-Abiding Citizens?” Open Poll Causes Stir In American COP Magazine
Will You Do It?
I’ve known anti-gun cops, who seriously said things like, ‘They have no right to own a gun, it’s my job to protect them. If they have guns, it’s just a danger to me!’
I ike to think my “real” job is as the editor of our sister publication, American Handgunner magazine. A publisher wears many hats, but what I really like to do is write, edit and interact with readers. What I’ve never forgotten is we, you and I, are the same — I just happen to have this job. I spent a long time as a cop in San Diego, and an even longer lifetime so far as a shooter and gun owner. I (and parent company FMG) feel strongly about the right of law-abiding Americans to own firearms, for any reason they like; from hunting, plinking, collecting, reloading, you-name-it. But most assuredly, we believe Americans have the right to own firearms for personal protection. This brings me to a sore subject for many Handgunner readers.
I get regular reader mail asking essentially the same question: “Roy, as a former cop, do you think today’s younger cops would actually try to take guns away from law-abiding citizens, if they were told to do so by their leaders?” Keep in mind, real people and regular people just like us — not crazies — seriously worry about this.
Since I’ve sort of “crossed-over” both sides of the fence being both a law enforcer and law-abiding citizen gun owner, I can see what they’re talking about. I’ve known anti-gun cops, who seriously said things like, “They have no right to own a gun, it’s my job to protect them. If they have guns, it’s just a danger to me!” You might know someone like that too. And certainly, there are politicians out there who think the same way; and those very politicians often appoint police chiefs. Since sheriffs are elected, they can serve as a bit of a buffer on this topic. They more readily serve their voting constituent than the politically appointed chief does.
So, I’ll be blunt and ask you: Would you personally, go out and confiscate firearms from law abiding citizens — even if it goes against your personal opinion regarding the constitutional rights of citizens — and do it on the order of an administrative leader of your agency? Would you put your foot down and say, “No, that’s not legal, it’s not right, and I won’t do it” — all the while risking being disciplined or fired? Or would you simply do your duty, as it were? “I was only following orders!” And, if you don’t think it can happen, just look at New Orleans after the hurricane, when the city cops did that very thing. They also lost a lawsuit brought by the NRA in the aftermath. It was found the city of New Orleans did not have the right to confiscate firearms in the “interest of public safety.”
I was asked to write about this a long while ago, back when I was still a cop. I wrote the article and stated: I would not do it and, yes, I’d risk the consequences. I signed my name to the article, and my agency knew it. I also said I didn’t feel the vast majority of my LE peers would participate if they felt they were given an unlawful order to confiscate guns. But today? I honestly don’t know what would happen. What’s your opinion? You tell me.
Omar Little says: June 13, 2012 at 2:56 am
Absolutely I would and for several reasons.
1st. my job is on the line. I may not like it, but I will follow orders. If I don’t and someone is killed because of my inaction to follow orders, I may be left high and dry by my dept.
2nd. I have a gun. I will get to keep my gun. Nobody will take my gun home because I am the law. I will take your gun. See #1 above.
3rd. I believe in the Constitution, but it is a living document. With the way gangs and illegals are today, I want all the guns off the street. Only law enforcement should own guns. You don’t have the ability or desire to train and be profecient with a weapon. A single shot shotgun is about all you need for home defense and I’m really pushing my comfort zone to accept that.
4th. I will confiscate any weapon I find. You have a gun? You have a permit? Your gun is mine. I’ll let you spend a few thousand dollars with the judge to get your gun back if you really want it that bad. It doesn’t cost me a thing to confiscate your weapon, but it will cost you lots of time and lots of money to get it back. If need to depending on the weapon I may add charges even if I have to make them up to keep you away from the gun.
5th. I am sick of the .gov is coming after us. I know barrel jerkers like so many gun nuts are hoarding guns and ammo. Keep it up, because when we do come for them, I already know your neighbors won’t support you. Why? Because I am the law. You are guilty till the judge tells me you are not.
Sounds like the pig who gave me a speeding ticket when he misread the speed limit sign.
They absolutely would.
I don’t believe the anti-gun-cop response is legit: I think it’s troll bait. I ain’t biting.
Interesting topic for a poll in a cop magazine, though.
They absolutely have. (Katrina)
They didn’t try that non-sense in Mississippi during Katrina. Probably didn’t want to die.
Another way of looking at it: you don’t have to worry so much about your guns being confiscated by “the average pro-gun cop.”
The problem is when LE agencies self-select for the traits they desire in “special” units. It’s no problem to assemble a unit of real jackasses, and give them free rein to violate the Constitution. Fast And Furious, AKA Murdergate, is a real-life reflection of the fictional Bob Bullard and the “Special Training Unit” of the ATF in my first novel.
Don’t worry about what the “average cop” thinks. They are solid. Worry about the unit of commie gestapo jackboots that is easily assemebled by a large agency to do the personal bidding of their masters.
That’s partly what happened with F&F: the OCDETF task force felt they were above the law, and had permission from on high to do any damn thing at all to massage the numbers to please DC, and make for a great photo op for Holder at the end.
Just before Agent Terry was killed, Holder was already scheduled for a big PR-palooza in Phoenix.
And that response says it all.
And THAT is why they will be shot dead if they try this. It will be a war.
People are NOT going to put up with this crap any more.
WOW...just WOW...
The person (Omar Little) who wrote that post is mentally deranged. He contradicts his own statement with #3. This person is obviously unsuited for a position in law enforcement. A firearm is a tool and is not a weapon until used in that capacity. Guns do not kill, they do not grow legs, wings or have a mind of their own. I challenge anyone to set a locked and loaded firearm on say the counter, lets see if “IT” erroneously discharges.
personally I would not trust that person with any thing that might be a weapon.
The LEO’s I know fully encourage firearms, in fact are not intimidated by non LEO’s openly displaying loaded firearms (personally I think they feel safer).
Bump!
I have been pulled over by cops for no reason besides they didn’t like my bumper stickers. This was in 1984, of all years. Pulled over for a silly reason last year when I was a passenger. There are too many cops on power trips and who think we are all criminals. Have plenty more stories of friends’ encounters with them... I often don’t trust them. Plenty of them will gladly trample on our rights in a heartbeat.
I would think a person would have a moral choice as to whether they were a police officer or an American first. Totalitarian governments murder their own unarmed people with all the proper paperwork filled out in triplicate and according to the law. First they need to take the ability to resist away from them for those being arrested and murdered often object. I don’t think it is possible to disarm the American people so the point is moot. Even the cities where they try, the criminals are all well armed. Illegal items that are in demand simply create profit. If the police could actually control anything there would be no illegal drugs, that is working out real well. I might also add that when I was younger and stronger I knew how to kill with a knife or even my hands if the need had arisen.
It may be troll bait, but that could have been written by my psycho crazy next door neighbor who just so happens to be your average run of the mill dirty patrol cop (and very proud of it).
I wonder if there’s a small but significant number of people who are prepared to go after the decision makers and attack dogs alike? Perhaps there’s people in positions to know intimate details who are playing along for the time being?
History repeats itself and we all know what follows gun confiscation. Now here’s a question for if/when that happens. . .If people come to harm your family, should their families be considered out of bounds? I’m talking about both the decision makers and the attack dogs.
Maybe people like this respondent might think a little different if he understood his paycheck wasn’t the only thing on the line? Let’s be honest, when the green light goes off in some people’s heads it’s going to be an animal show.
Omar, huh? How many Abduls in the bunch?
I wonder, If a cop can be sued in court to recoup legal expenses after an illegal seizure. After all, if the judge grants your weapon back, then no law has been broken and the officer’s false accusations just cost you a bundle.
I happen to be a run of the mill patrol cop. I will absolutely refuse to follow any such orders. I can’t envision anyone on my team of 7 who might follow it. Of course I live out West where we expect every citizen to have at least one gun...
Remember who did this exact kind of polling first? Bill Clinton, polling the military.
People that like hurting children and old folks are gonna suffer. Pricks that want to steal guns... We'll just say it ain't gonna be pretty.
Dance with me.
/johnny
Only I should own knives.
But if you want to play with them, 'spect a bit of harsh treatment when a master shows up.
/johnny
If he is your next door neighbor then you must live across the street from me. The cop that lives across the street is a nut job who should be in a rubber room but carries a gun and a badge.
Do the police currently enforce RKBA infringements in jurisdictions with anti-gun laws, or do they stand up for our rights and defend the Second Amendment?
Would you expect them to do any diffrently if gun confiscation were ordered?
Hell yes there will be a huge number who will
And they are now paramilitaries, well armed as Literal storm troops - only they are called SWAT.
Why does the Department of Education have SWAT teams?
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Omar won’t need his job where he is going if the government tries to disarm America. Omar is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Which side do you expect the Gay Pride Month packers and munchers to be on?
Agree... Stay safe !
Every cop I ever brought the subject up to, said that is the day they call in sick. I’m not going to be target practice.
If they think they can execute their depradations with impunity, they are dillusional.
As was said 45 years ago...”If only us cops had guns us cops wouldn’t get shot!”
I saw what happened in NOLA after Katrina and know that it is a strong possibility.
I always thought that Ruby Ridge and Waco were test cases to see how the American people would react to such police state scenarios.
Rodney King as a convicted felon getting his a$$ kicked garnered more response so I guess they got the answer they wanted.
They have it for a reason and I have no doubt that the FBI is illegally keeping one too.
Perzackley!
After Ruby Ridge and Waco there was Jarbridge and Klamath Falls and a couple of other, smaller face-offs. I don’t know about all of them but I know for a fact that there were several rifles close at hand at Klamath Falls. I would guess the other incidents had similar back-up.
1) Earlier in my life, I was a physicist. Of course after a (successful) thesis defense we are all issued baryon-number inverters.
2) I have been using mine to stockpile roughly a gram of anti-hydrogen every day since 1983 in a magnetic field controlled by a dead-man switch which I have been holding in my hand since that time. That amounts to roughly 11 kilograms of antimatter, which will annihilate to produce 90-100 megatons of very short wave gamma rays.
3) If a cop comes to my home to confiscate my guns, I will have to put down the dead-man switch to pick up my shotgun. 4) I can't be responsible for what happens after that...
The reference to the book “Uninented Consequences” is a great one. I’m not sure if it is still in print, but it was pretty well written and definitely presented some plausible scenarios.
The reference to the book “Uninented Consequences” is a great one. I’m not sure if it is still in print, but it was pretty well written and definitely presented some plausible scenarios.
More than 99% of the badgemonkeys would do as directed.
No ifs ands or butts about it.....because I doubt the
majority of LEO have ever read the Declaration of Independence let alone the Constitution, they neither
know nor care about the content of those documents.
They care about one thing only, doing what they are
told to do so they can keep their job and paycheck, and
for many, continue to recieve the psychological validation
and dick hardening thrill they get from abusing their positions of petty authority.
If an officer has EVER arrested someone for merely being in
possession of a weapon...any weapon than that officer has
demonstated his ignorance and contempt for the Bill of Rights. And I’d venture a guess that close to 99% of
officers have made arrests based strictly on weapons
possession.... a right that the Second Amendment states
is inviolate. They understand what “shall not be infringed”
means...they just don’t give a rats ass.
This person’s rant is why so many on FR are “cop haters”. He proves the point.
Good little Nazi
I don’t believe the anti-gun-cop response is legit: I think it’s troll bait. I ain’t biting.Either troll bait or a sarcastic post the purpose of which is to get us all to think about what is going on in the minds of at least some anti-gun cops.
But anyway, I agree with you, it's some kind of put-up job. Not that there are no cops who think this way, just that there are none who are stupid enough to admit it so openly and brazenly. It reads like a nazi screed and everyone knows that, including the person who wrote it.
Please come to my house first, please, please.
Like you, I have a gun.
Like you, I will not surrender my gun to anybody. I will use my gun to protect my life and my liberty, please keep that in mind when you come for my gun.
You won’t get to keep your gun when I take from your cold dead hand, as you can take mine when I am dead.
The Constitution is not a living document. It means what it says. A group of extremely intelligent men, whose equal we have not seen in over 200 years, went to a great deal of trouble to craft it just the way it is. If you believe you are anywhere near as intelligent as they were, feel free to explain to me what my Constitution really means, but you will have to demonstrate how smart you are before I take your word over say, Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson.
I don’t really give a sh*t about your comfort zone, you come to my door to assault me or my liberty and you die like a dog. F*UCK YOUR ORDERS!!
I’m betting you never met a NYC cop. Omar is unusual only because he can write a complete sentence.
I have relatives in western Pennsylvania who are armed to the teeth, yet none of them own an automatic pistol, just revolvers. State law sez you can’t hunt & carry a selfloader of any length.
IMO, the big-city politics of Philadelphia own the rest of a mostly rural state. Not the only state where this is true, though.
This is one of the scarier threads I have read.
The reference to the book “Uninented Consequences” is a great one. I’m not sure if it is still in print, but it was pretty well written and definitely presented some plausible scenarios.According to the publisher, Accurate Press, it is out of print. They say the next printing is "going to be softcover and will probably be priced at $28.95 and $6 shipping."
Firearms data bases are a simple fact of life today. Anytime the powers that be want a list, they can just data mine for folks who have purchased ammo or gun accessories with a credit card in the past ten years. Bingo. You have bought some 5.56 ammo and mags? It’s not a secret, not to LE.
They don’t want to be “target practice”. That is a terrible response. On the flip side I would gladly be target practice, and willing to die and kill for freedom for my posterity. There will be a day when our local cops confiscate firearms. I just hope there are enough people left to resist.
You are the first line of defence when it comes to protecting your family and property, the cops show up after the fact with pad and pen when the damage is done. So protecting us in this situtation is an impossibility. The politician will never be able to or refuse to control illegal guns so they placate thier constituants with the a false notion by putting all gun owners legal and illegal into one basket thier by pushing thier gun control agenda and more so to protect themselves and thier position in government, control the masses and make you believe they are really doing something for society by protectin you and your family. You can’t blame the cops for being concerned Im sure thye much rather have no guns and fell safer but once again the politician will force the issue with his or her own agenda and force t
A point to remember is that in a crisis the only purpose of your civilian weapon is to procure a better weapon. There IS a source of military-grade weaponry in most American communities. You have correctly identified it.
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