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Commentary: Obamacare and Coming Secession
WGMD.com ^ | 6-28-2012 | Bill Colley WGMD Host

Posted on 07/02/2012 5:58:14 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat

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To: precisionshootist

I would prefer to see a CC as well and think that’s a strategy that should be concurrently pursued. The problem, though, is getting enough states to call for one. The plain truth is that several states are pleased as can be to see aca upheld and have no problem with increased taxes or governmental control. So NY, IL, CA, etc are going to call for a CC? Really?

Another possibility is having a state or states negotiate to remain within the Federal construct but with a different or more autonomous status such as Puerto Rico or Guam.


51 posted on 07/03/2012 7:45:15 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (The political game is rigged)
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To: Brilliant

we have this now because the federal coersion used in the past and in the present has been removed.

no more extortion to provide unfunded mandates.

The blue state budgets are screwed.

27 states sued to fight the medicade freebie expansion.

NYstate is so desperate they are advertising. You can’t watch the ad without laughing out loud.


52 posted on 07/03/2012 7:47:39 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory

The primary lesson of the CW was that might makes right. It also confirmed that stupid leaders who secede and then start a war against a bigger adversary will most likely get stomped in the process.

The constitution was never explicitly changed to address the issue of secesssion one way or the other. You’d think that if the intent was to never allow for it, then the constitution would have been amended after the CW.


53 posted on 07/03/2012 7:57:58 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (The political game is rigged)
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To: central_va

there was no interconnection then as now.

The ecconomy was agrarian.

You also had that whole slavery issue.

Now we have enclaves of leftists aka northern cities.

isolate the cities and you cut the head of the hydra.

NYC should NOT be the center of the news cycle.

look at the county by county conservative liberal. Isolate the cities and the zombies are just one mean from panic.

Just look at them now in this storm follow up. They are moaning for the government to bring them food.


54 posted on 07/03/2012 7:58:09 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Tench_Coxe

“Rick argues the liberals will rejoice as the red states go their own way.”


Then Rick doesn’t understand liberals in the least. There’s no way they let any people out from under their thumb, peaceably at least. It’s inherent in their worldview that they have to control people, limit their freedom, and impose their will on others, ESPECIALLY those who disagree with them.


55 posted on 07/03/2012 8:08:06 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: RKBA Democrat

Most all discussion is centered around the States but it is more of a rural against city battle. Huge parts of almost all states want nothing to do with the city progressives.

The military will wind up being the same. They may have most the military on their side or unable to operate however many units will fight for the rurals


56 posted on 07/03/2012 8:24:34 AM PDT by winodog
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To: UnwashedPeasant
Not really. Obama and the libs only really have the numbers in the halls of congress. They are the ones that prevent modifications like a balanced budget amendment by blocking it. When it comes to the states and the will of the people they simply don't have the numbers to stop passage.

The purpose of the CC is to propose amendments (limiting government in this case, which will come from the red states) but then the amendments will need to be ratified by the states. Because they must be ratified by the states we really have little to fear from the libs. Most of the country is still solidly in the red and with recent shenanigans some formerly blue states are beginning to come over to our side. So bottom line even if the left were to get some radical amendment proposed (which they don't have the numbers to do) the states would never vote to ratify it.

This is the cliff notes version of how a CC works. Here is a link to great information on how to amend the constitution by convention. It's at the Goldwater Institute. Download the .pdf. I promise you will not be able to stop reading as it's very interesting.

Here is a link. This is just a summary. The actual report is a pdf. If you read it let me know what you think!

http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/article/amending-constitution-convention-complete-view-founders-plan-part-1-series

57 posted on 07/03/2012 8:40:03 AM PDT by precisionshootist
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To: longtermmemmory

“You can’t watch the ad without laughing out loud.”

Very true. It seems like it would be counterproductive. Basically, they are admitting that even they know they have a reputation for being anti-business to a point where they can’t ignore it and need to try to convince you that you are wrong in your assessment.


58 posted on 07/03/2012 2:36:52 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: castlebrew; rockrr
“A free Republic of Texas...” Would be the 8th- or 10-largest economy in the world, IIRC...

Would be the 8th- or 10th- richest state in Mexico ...

59 posted on 07/03/2012 2:43:35 PM PDT by x
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To: UnwashedPeasant
Below is the secession map the Left proposed when John Kerry was defeated in 2004. We are two culturally different peoples, and our cultures are not compatible. A friendly divorce will be best for everyone.

"Jesusland" and "The United States of Canada"? That may be one culture, or four or five or six or eight or ten cultures, but they aren't two cultures. I don't see either half staying together very long.

60 posted on 07/03/2012 2:52:34 PM PDT by x
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To: longtermmemmory

Roberts and Obama have destroyed freedom in the U.S.. Government at all levels needs to be tremendously reduced immediately or we will not survive: Your share of the federal debt is already over $100,000 and exploding . The IRS and EPA need to be abolished immediately . The 100,000 pages of government regulations choking businesses need to be instantly eliminated. How to do this? My proposal is : (anybody have a better plan put it out there): The states need to secede from the union. And then those states write a new constitution that proclaims that the federal government’s only roles are in defending the country from Foreign threats like illegals and china. Never will it be allowed for government at any level to get involved in schools, healthcare, or welfare or charity.99% of what governments do know should be abolished and illegal. The only thing the government could have a small role is in roads as they already ruined that So governments should only deal with police(local), military , border control, customs( federal), roads( states), courts at all levels (only to protect individual and property rights )and only a sales tax and tariffs allowed at any level of government. That means an EPA,IRS, government schools, HUD,HHS , dept of energy,income tax, property taxes are always illegal(never never will any politician even propose legislation that would deal with any of this as it would be illegal).

Democrats really believe that the people who run the department of motor vehicles or government schools (Like a high school principle etc.) will be able to provide the cutting edge technology and diagnostics to save our lives.

what do you agree or disagree with my post?


61 posted on 07/03/2012 3:50:53 PM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 4 years.China is destroying U.S. ability to manufacture,makes everything)
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To: kevslisababy

One wonders if the Soviet Analyst was able to foresee the more proximate breakup of the Soviet Empire into Russia, Byelorussia, Georgia, Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan? If not, why would someone think his predictions on the US would have any validity.


62 posted on 07/04/2012 12:11:49 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: OrangeHoof

Rather odd to think that having 50 states feverishly printing money will lead to greater monetary stability than the federal reserve system we have now. We tried that approach under the Articles of Federation, and it didn’t work.

If you can’t get 3/4s to amend the constitution, you can’t get 3/4s for secession. Anything less would be rebellion, and would be punished harshly.


63 posted on 07/04/2012 12:20:35 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: central_va

Of course Israel is more socialist than the US. That, and being the Chosen People of G-d makes then unique. If you don’t have the qualifications, don’t apply for the job.


64 posted on 07/04/2012 12:32:32 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: DelaWhere

It was the rebels that attacked the US, and then declared war against the US. After that, that the US fought back against traitors committing treason should not be a big surprise.


65 posted on 07/04/2012 12:35:18 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: rurgan

Rather than secession which would require state regulations to replace federal regulations, it would be better to win a few elections, and then rewrite the onerous regulations and laws to make them better.

If you can make the 3/4s majority necessary for secession, you can meet the 3/4s majority to amend the constitution as necessary. If you can’t, then you are advocating rebellion, which would be harshly punished.


66 posted on 07/04/2012 12:41:30 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: donmeaker
If you can’t get 3/4s to amend the constitution, you can’t get 3/4s for secession. Anything less would be rebellion, and would be punished harshly.

Oh, you won't get secession by going through channels. That's like asking your wife for permission to start an affair. You have to just do it and be willing to suffer the consequences. There will be no turning back or the punishment will be harsh but I think a persuasive case can be made both to Texans and to Washington to let it happen once the move is made.

For example, how does it look to the rest of the world if the U.S. tries a violent putdown of Texas while condemning Russia for a violent putdown of Georgia and Chechnya? We might actually get a lot of diplomatic support from all the America-haters that either Bush or Obama have ticked off.

67 posted on 07/04/2012 8:25:48 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Our economy won't heal until one particular black man is unemployed.)
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To: OrangeHoof

So your point of view is that treason is preferable because winning elections is too hard for you?

Get thee behind me Satan.


68 posted on 07/04/2012 11:14:19 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: donmeaker

My point is that America is broken and elections will not fix it. The Titanic was a magnificent ocean liner but there came a time to abandon ship or die.

The America that was founded was the best country on earth but certain Supreme Court decisions (1962-present) and a federal government which has grown to believe itself infallible have destroyed the foundation upon which that greatness was founded on - a reverence for a Creator God, a belief in limited government and a reliance on self-responsibility and liberty has been traded in for a government just a few steps short of the Supreme Soviet.

Secession is the attempt to recreate the America that the founders created and for which conservatism bleeds and dies for. IMO, Texas (and maybe Alaska) is the best laboratory for doing this while not repeating the federal mistakes of the past 50 years. Perhaps it would fail but I’d rather try and fail than watch us be sucked into the insatiable federal leviathan that only desires more and more power over our lives each and every day when we know in our hearts there is a better way that we can’t get federal judges and Washington bureaucrats to see.

Call it treason if you wish. I call it survival.


69 posted on 07/05/2012 8:44:24 AM PDT by OrangeHoof (Our economy won't heal until one particular black man is unemployed.)
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To: OrangeHoof

I call it treason, cowardice, fecklessness.


70 posted on 07/05/2012 6:26:59 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: donmeaker

Well, congratulations. Hope you enjoy a two-party system rigged to move further to the Left every year because government never votes against government control and this one has pretty much usurped states rights and individual freedom. You’re watching the death twitches of the America you grew up in and you’re willing to believe that a little bit of grass roots will solve it. I guess you haven’t been paying attention.


71 posted on 07/05/2012 9:27:52 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Our economy won't heal until one particular black man is unemployed.)
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To: OrangeHoof

I paid attention in 2010 as the Tea Party won 60% of senate seats on offer. Just as the country has moved left in increments over the years, it can move right the same way. Just as it is rigged by people to move left, it can be rigged to move right by different people.

You just have to decide if you are one of the people who will move it right, or if you are one of the ones content to have it move left.


72 posted on 07/07/2012 2:43:32 AM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: OrangeHoof

You don’t ask your wife for permission to have an affair. You do ask permission from the state for a divorce.

Unless you are just a thief, or a deadbeat.

The lesson of the Civil War was that right makes might. Slavery was such a bad cause that the slave power could gain no allies, and hence lost. It was such a bad cause that they had no legal case, and so had to seek power from the barrel of a gun. They didn’t find it there.


73 posted on 07/07/2012 2:52:22 AM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: Tench_Coxe

I have some definate problems with conditions 1, 2 and 4. They don’t include any rope.


74 posted on 07/07/2012 3:11:16 AM PDT by TruthFactor (The Death of Nations: Pornography, Homosexuality, Abortion)
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To: OrangeHoof

A likely scenario that would take flame is the red states opting out of Obamacare and also opting out of following the next elections.

They will still have candidates but not through electors, it will be a popular vote, a Tea Party will arise. A leader will shine and step forth.

While the blue states have a successful election of either Romney or Obama the red states will have their own President.

This is what America should do, the blue states do have the option of standing around whining and saying they are so screwed while the ship is sinking, I for one do not and has never waited for permission, to me life right now is its better to stand tall by risking it all than sitting down with a downturned smile.


75 posted on 07/07/2012 3:24:12 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Going mobile, posts will be brief. No spellcheck for the grammar nazis.)
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To: donmeaker
You don’t ask your wife for permission to have an affair. You do ask permission from the state for a divorce.

Not when the divorce is from the state. Why ask when you know the answer? Secession isn't some joyride. This is saying "I'm done with you" and going your own way. Keep your federal dollars but we aren't sending any more. Keep your monster debt. We'll fence our own borders and grow our own economy and we'll go it without you, not in violent opposition but in philosophical opposition.

To stay in will mean the eventual forced recognition of gay marriage, gun restrictions, the repeal of the death penalty, etc. because the federal government will force us to do it by judicial or legislative fiat. ObamaCare has essentially ruled the 10th amendment unconstitutional so what is to stop them from infringing on the 1st, 2nd and 4th amendments?

I believe other nations would recognize Texas as a separate nation because they aren't trying to impose slavery or a theocracy (as the critics will charge). Some will do it because they would like to see America weakened and some will do it because they see the potential in a Texas economy unencumbered by Washington's taxations and bureaucracy.

76 posted on 07/07/2012 12:15:02 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Our economy won't heal until one particular black man is unemployed.)
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To: OrangeHoof

There is a legal procedure for a disagreement between a state and the federal government. It was the slave power’s failure to use that procedure that in large part led to the loss in 1860-1865.

The measures that you assert would be forced upon us without secession only happen if the people who are against them lose elections.

Of course the people who you hope will recognize a pretended independent Texas would largely also look down their noses at a Texas seeking independence because of homosexual rights, religious definitions of marriage, and the death penalty.

I personally find the death penalty appealing due to its low recidivism, but note it can be applied correctly as per Texas, or incorrectly as per California. In California the death penalty is just another welfare program for attorneys.


77 posted on 07/07/2012 9:04:48 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: donmeaker

One might also make the observation that “Might makes Wrong” when you look at how the southron fire-eaters attempted to muscle their way into a political solution and got their asses handed to them as a result.


78 posted on 07/08/2012 8:40:07 AM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: rockrr

Or if you prefer, “Wrong makes Weakness.”

Prince Albert on his deathbed, knowing that a divided US could be exploited by England, still exacted promises from the two men likely to be Prime Minister that they would not support the slave power. He saw it as a moral duty.


79 posted on 07/08/2012 8:15:00 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: x
For 2011: $1.308 TRILLION, according to the St Louis Fed Report: "Total Gross Domestic product by State".

Would be #14 (after Canada, ahead of Indonesia), according to Wikipedia

80 posted on 07/08/2012 9:12:51 PM PDT by castlebrew (Gun control means hitting where you're aiming!)
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