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City (Memphis TN) could ask non-profits (churches)to make tax payments
The Memphis Commercial Appeal ^ | 7/2/12 | Amos Maki

Posted on 07/02/2012 7:53:39 PM PDT by Sybeck1

Memphis may join the growing list of cash-strapped cities that ask nonprofit and tax-exempt organizations to make payments in lieu of tax.

The City Council will vote Tuesday on a resolution to form a committee to explore the idea.

"We want to see if this is feasible, and if it is feasible, how much revenue it could generate," said council member Janis Fullilove, who sponsored the resolution.

Fullilove said the committee, if approved, would focus on tax-exempt and nonprofit entities that gross $15 million or more annually.

As municipal budgets have felt the crunch of the economic slowdown, cities across the nation are increasingly asking their major tax-exempt businesses — hospitals, universities and cultural organizations — to make payments in lieu of taxes.

Robert Lipscomb, director of the city's Division of Housing and Community Development, estimates that 30 percent of properties inside Memphis are tax exempt, including government buildings, churches, hospitals, nonprofits and universities.

"If you have 30 percent of your property not being taxed that relates to everything else the city does," said Lipscomb. "That's just a fact."

In April, Boston began for the first time sending tax bills to nonprofits, asking them to pay up to 25 percent of what they would owe if their property were not tax-exempt.

The new revenue-raising plan in Boston is based on the estimated cost of providing basic city services, such as police and fire protection and snow removal.

Over the last decade PILOTs for tax-exempt entities have been used in at least 117 municipalities in at least 18 states, according to a report from the Lincoln Institute of Land Policy in Cambridge, Mass. Large cities collecting these forms of PILOTs include Baltimore, Boston, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh.

In Memphis, the existing PILOT program is an incentive tool used to lure businesses to the city and Shelby County. Under that system, businesses that secure a PILOT pay taxes on what the land is worth at predevelopment levels. Once they exit the PILOT program, they pay full taxes on the developed property.

Memphis officials will have to determine if nonprofits and tax-exempt entities should enter that program, or if a new program should be developed to get them to pay a portion of what they would owe if their properties were not tax-exempt.

"We'll have to determine if we need a new system," Fullilove said.

"I'm interested in these tax-exempt groups and asking them to be good stewards of Memphis," she said. "These tax-exempt groups use the same services the citizens use, fire and police services and protection, infrastructure like roads, so I'm asking them to help this community by paying a portion of their taxes if their properties were not tax exempt."

Councilman Jim Strickland, chairman of the council's budget committee, sees no downside in asking tax-exempt entities to make PILOT payments .

"I don't see anything wrong with asking," he said. "The worst thing that can happen with this is them saying no, so I think it's definitely worth asking."

Greg Duckett senior vice president and corporate counsel for Baptist Memorial Health Care, said tax-exempt institutions like Baptist already contribute to the city by bringing in jobs and research and by providing services the government doesn't.

"I respect and acknowledge the council's desire to look at this area, but in looking they need to look at the intended and unintended consequences of PILOTs," Duckett said. "You have to look at the purpose of nonprofit organizations and how they were created, and were it not for the services the nonprofits provide the public would probably have to pay for these services."

Duckett noted that Baptist provides free health care to the homeless and care for the poor that is not reimbursed, and provides facilities for the Church Health Center for $1 a year.

Baptist employs 5,700 people inside Memphis. Duckett said the hospital has a $76.5 million economic impact on Memphis.

"Obviously, if you are looking at the creation of some sort of taxes on nonprofits, items like that become legitimate issues for discussion over whether or not we can still do those things," Duckett said.

The talk of possibly including nonprofits and tax-exempt properties in a PILOT program comes as the current, business-recruitment-based PILOT is coming under review from city officials.

A council committee is considering a proposal to have outside auditors review the hiring and capital investment numbers submitted by companies enrolled in the PILOT program.

The Economic Development and Growth Engine board, or EDGE, tests about 10 companies a year to make sure they are producing the number of jobs and the amount of capital investment they promised to get the tax break. Around 75 companies are currently enrolled in the PILOT program.

The council has formed a six-member panel to examine economic development incentives offered by the city, including the PILOT program. The committee will explore whether the incentives currently in place have been effective and if the city should develop new incentives.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Miscellaneous; US: Tennessee
KEYWORDS: memphis; tn
Desoto county will gladly welcome you Bellevue Baptist!
1 posted on 07/02/2012 7:53:58 PM PDT by Sybeck1
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To: Sybeck1
Smells like reparations, Memphis style.
2 posted on 07/02/2012 7:58:06 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Sybeck1; wardaddy

Janis Fullilove is a VERY sloppy drunk, and quite possibly psychotic.

In the vernacular of the locals...

“She CRAYYYYzih.”


3 posted on 07/02/2012 8:01:03 PM PDT by Yudan (Living comes much easier once we admit we're dying.)
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To: Sybeck1

Will the 16,000 newly minted IRS agents be “asking” me to buy Government approved health insurance?


4 posted on 07/02/2012 8:01:07 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Bill Ayers Was *Not* "Just Some Guy In The Neighborhood")
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To: Sybeck1

Why would a church want to give the city monies they will squander when they are so much more effective at actually giving help and support where it is needed? The left is not happy unless they are finding more ways to loot the populace.


5 posted on 07/02/2012 8:02:30 PM PDT by formosa (Formosa)
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To: Sybeck1

Why would a church want to give the city monies they will squander when they are so much more effective at actually giving help and support where it is needed? The left is not happy unless they are finding more ways to loot the populace.


6 posted on 07/02/2012 8:03:05 PM PDT by formosa (Formosa)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: Sybeck1
As citizens move more and more toward looking to government for their wants and needs, and devaluing the institutions which traditionally provide the kinds of services that churches, hospitals, and other non-profits are known for, then the natural thing is for government to gain ground and to intrude into what once was recognized as valuable.

Why should it be up to government to decide how much property such organizations or institutions should own?

There was a time when doing good voluntarily, out of a benevolent spirit, was considered valuable and not to be penalized by the coercive arm of government.

8 posted on 07/02/2012 8:09:29 PM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: Sybeck1

Councilman Jim Strickland, chairman of the council’s budget committee, sees no downside in asking tax-exempt entities to make PILOT payments.

“I don’t see anything wrong with asking,” he said. “The worst thing that can happen with this is them saying no, so I think it’s definitely worth asking.”


Kinda reminds me of a certain presidential candidate suggesting the redirecting of wedding presents his way.

Like it doesn’t hurt to ask...

...Really?


9 posted on 07/02/2012 8:18:21 PM PDT by ne1410s ("If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill)
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To: Sybeck1

I guess churches could look at it as not being a tax, but simply a penalty for being Christian.


10 posted on 07/02/2012 8:20:45 PM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like it)
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To: Sybeck1

I was born and raised in Memphis, back when it was the nation’s cleanest and quietest city, with good public education, the nation’s finest utility district (L,G,&W) all under one roof, and the nations finest fire department.
It is now 60 percent Afro, and they have taken over everything, destroying it as they go.

I have only one daughter left there, hanging on.
I moved to the country in 1972, and OUT OF the country (USA) in 2004.


11 posted on 07/02/2012 8:23:28 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: Sybeck1

#4 Methodist Healthcare
#5 Baptist Memorial Healthcare Corp
#19 St. Judes
#23 Catholic Diocese of Memphis
#31 Regional Medical Center
#32 St. Francis Hospital
#33 Veterans Affairs Hospital


A couple of the hospitals might not be NFP. The IRS is #14; the rest of the Feds make up number 3. If these two are added together, they become number 2.


12 posted on 07/02/2012 8:29:52 PM PDT by Ingtar ("As the light begins to fade in the city on the hill")
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To: Sybeck1
I think Memphis is being extremely short sighted trying to tax some of the non-profits. Especially hospitals.
That said, my question really is why are churches tax exempt? Damn near all of them preach politics. Many, if not most are cash cows for somebody or some “non-profit” corporation. Back in the 60s I worked for a church publishing plant. Non-profit? What a scam. Another plant in another state was closed because it was not "efficient" enough. Efficient being a synonym for profitable. I say tax the churches just a other businesses are taxed.
13 posted on 07/02/2012 8:33:53 PM PDT by Tupelo (Old Cowboys never die. They just smell like it.)
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To: Tzar
Does federal law stop local governments from taxing nonprofits?

An interesting question. I hope somebody has an answer.

14 posted on 07/02/2012 8:43:20 PM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: Sybeck1

The way the Supreme Court values “being on the right side of history” and “the legitimacy of the Court” over the actual Constitution, anything is possible. Why not—these people figure—try to abrogate the First Amendment?


15 posted on 07/02/2012 8:53:36 PM PDT by denydenydeny (Admiration of absolute government is proportionate to the contempt one has for others.-Tocqueville)
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To: Tupelo

As John Marshall once wrote, the power to tax is the power to destroy. IAC, you make all these broadbrush accusations. Most of what churches do has nothing at all to do with making a buck. You just don’t like churches.


16 posted on 07/02/2012 8:54:22 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Sybeck1
Memphis may join the growing list of cash-strapped cities that ask nonprofit and tax-exempt organizations to make payments in lieu of tax.

As municipal budgets have felt the crunch of the economic slowdown, cities across the nation are increasingly asking their major tax-exempt businesses — hospitals, universities and cultural organizations — to make payments in lieu of taxes.

"ask"?
"asking"?
You can always tell when the scumbag Democrat politicians and their newsrooms are at work.

Big Government doesn't "ask" for money - - the scumbag politicians confiscate it at the point of a gun. The scum need to make sure their juicy perks and pensions remain fully funded, and they still have enough money left over to buy the votes of their "base" of losers, bums, deadbeats, and parasites. And the scumbag Democrats can always count on their newsroom mice like this author Amos Maki to use gentle language on their behalf.

Yeah, they're going to "ask" for money, lol.

17 posted on 07/02/2012 9:09:23 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Sybeck1
"We'll have to determine if we need a new system," Fullilove said.

In the western tradition going back to medieval times at least, Church and state were in charge of separate spheres, the state would govern, and the Church took care of the charitable works and welfare. Hospitals? Those were the Churches. Welfare? The Church would allow the poor to farm on the Church's land for below market rates if they could not afford land. The arts and sciences? The Church subsidized them and hired artists and tradesman of all kinds creating art, building churches, etc. Compared to the Church, the King's contributions to these fields was trivial.

So why did the government take over? It goes back to the French Revolution, and even earlier, in which a new rabidly secular government would appease citizens by taking over Church property and selling it off in order to buy the loyalty of the citizens. It was competing with the Church for the hearts of the citizens, jealously encroaching on the sphere it had no real business being in.

The United States held out longer than Europe, because we are still constitutionally more medieval than "enlightened" Europe. Not only do we still have the Church, we have a vast network of thousands upon thousands of charities for any cause imaginable, using our citizen's rights of free association to create the means to solve any problem we set our minds to, without waiting for the government to act first or tell us what to do.

And this tradition is not obsolete, it aught to be the wave of the future. While "progressives" wish to create a rigid health care bureaucracy that rivals something from the Stalinism of the 1930s, the future is about mobility, free associations, Facebook, finding and linking to others for a common purpose.

Instead of taxing churches to support your obsolete model, you should be examining things in your own sphere which you can give back to the private sector, whether private enterprise or the vast web of charities that already exists in your town.

That's the system you need to rebuild.

18 posted on 07/02/2012 9:11:23 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: RobbyS

No. I do not dislike churchs. I just think they should pay their way like every other business.


19 posted on 07/02/2012 9:12:06 PM PDT by Tupelo (Old Cowboys never die. They just smell like it.)
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To: Tupelo

They are called non-profits for a reason.

PS Those groups may be contrasted with government agencies attempting to circumvent the Constitution and move into the realm of charity. Best reason not to allow such unconstitutional agency bad behavior is that AgencyPersons and their agencies waste well over 70% of every dollar they get, via government, from us!

Usually, less than one taxpayer dollar in four gets to the needy if an agency get its paws on it first.


20 posted on 07/02/2012 9:30:04 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: Sybeck1
In Boston, the Irish and Italians made up the bulk of Catholic membership. The church reaped big donations from congregants. Following white flight, third world catholics began taking over the membership. Donations plunged. I'm sure this story played out through many American cities.

The churches don't have a bucket to piss in. Yet, local Democrat governments are going to squeeze the basis of their political support. Should be fun to watch. Problem is where will the third world flee to?

21 posted on 07/02/2012 9:37:54 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: Sybeck1
In Boston, the Irish and Italians made up the bulk of Catholic membership. The church reaped big donations from congregants. Following white flight, third world catholics began taking over the membership. Donations plunged. I'm sure this story played out through many American cities.

The churches don't have a bucket to piss in. Yet, local Democrat governments are going to squeeze the basis of their political support. Should be fun to watch. Problem is where will the third world flee to?

22 posted on 07/02/2012 9:37:54 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: Sybeck1
In Boston, the Irish and Italians made up the bulk of Catholic membership. The church reaped big donations from congregants. Following white flight, third world catholics began taking over the membership. Donations plunged. I'm sure this story played out through many American cities.

The churches don't have a bucket to piss in. Yet, local Democrat governments are going to squeeze the basis of their political support. Should be fun to watch. Problem is where will the third world flee to?

23 posted on 07/02/2012 9:37:58 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: formosa

“The left is not happy unless they are finding more ways to loot the populace.”
I used to work in Memphis a number of years ago, but I didn’t live there. It’s not only Left, it’s Black Left, which means Marxism run by idiots! Someone posted that Fullilove was a crazy drunk. Have a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK6UKJ6wjWk


24 posted on 07/02/2012 9:43:30 PM PDT by vette6387
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To: Sybeck1
Memphis may join the growing list of cash-strapped cities that ask nonprofit and tax-exempt organizations to make payments in lieu of tax.

It is my understanding that mandatory payments to the government--at any level--is a pretty good working definition of taxes...

25 posted on 07/02/2012 10:08:08 PM PDT by AmericanExceptionalist (Democrats believe in discussing the full spectrum of ideas, all the way from far left to center-left)
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To: Sybeck1

Ping


26 posted on 07/02/2012 11:06:51 PM PDT by dragonblustar (At least Judas had the good sense to look for a tall tree afterwards.)
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To: Tupelo

Pay their way, as in contributing to the retirement funds of elected politicians and their croneys? If they are free to tap the respources of religious congregations, then you are taxing double those parisioners.


27 posted on 07/02/2012 11:26:13 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: vette6387

You mean its going the same way as Detroit and Cleveland?


28 posted on 07/02/2012 11:29:28 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Vince Ferrer

In France they took over Church property to keep the state from collapsing. At the same time, they tried to force the clergy to become employees of the state.


29 posted on 07/02/2012 11:33:53 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Sybeck1

I would then suggest that churches ask for payment for its charitable missions within the community. Think the city could afford it?


30 posted on 07/02/2012 11:37:46 PM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: Yudan

Yes, My family and I lived in Memphis almost 40 years. Summer 1961-April 2000).
The first 15 years were very blissful (except for the riots in 68) years.
By the early 90’s, I overheard a man say: “I’m about ready to move out of Memphis and just let them cannabalize it, then come back.”
If the city, county and state take over running the Hospitals, Churches, they will cannabalize them.

Let me ask; “If the City, County & State cannot regulate & run it’s self, why should it try to take on more?”


31 posted on 07/02/2012 11:50:36 PM PDT by Letmarch75
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To: Sybeck1
Robert Lipscomb, director of the city's Division of Housing and Community Development, estimates that 30 percent of properties inside Memphis are tax exempt, including government buildings, churches, hospitals, nonprofits ...

Sell some government buildings - raise money and increase tax base.

32 posted on 07/03/2012 2:02:58 AM PDT by Skulllspitter
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To: Sybeck1

This is a good thing. Too many non-profits benefit from the system. If they suffered along with us then we wouldn’t see our taxes rise so high.

The Feds should do the same thing. There are plenty of massive endowments that exist just to enrich the staff and owners. That wasn’t the purpose of the non-profit tax exemption.


33 posted on 07/03/2012 3:03:18 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Tupelo

I think you need to read a book. The title of it is now my tag line.


34 posted on 07/03/2012 3:49:19 AM PDT by mazda77 ("Defeating the Totalitarian Lie" By: Hilmar von Campe. Everybody should read it.)
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To: RobbyS

The government in Cleveland as it now exists,makes the older locals long for the days when Dennis Kochinic was mayor.


35 posted on 07/03/2012 3:58:14 AM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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My hometown, shocka!! This is the same city where a Ford proposed to increase the gas tax. Demorcat machine, fiscally incompetent.


36 posted on 07/03/2012 4:15:10 AM PDT by RginTN
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To: vette6387

You mean Janice Fulladrugs? I’m in Germantown on the front lines.


37 posted on 07/03/2012 4:30:14 AM PDT by ebshumidors ( Marksmanship and YOUR heritage http://www.appleseedinfo.org)
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To: 1010RD

I agree that some businesses that are classed a non profit should be taxed since they are truly a shell and are evading taxes.

Churches on the other hand are a different story, the average church has less than 70 members and most of the time the pastor has to have a second job just to pay the bills. If we put taxes on top of their fixed and variable expenses there will be a lot of churches that will close their doors and people will suffer as a result.

The government needs to change their business model as a small business owner would have to when the economy gets bad!


38 posted on 07/03/2012 4:36:22 AM PDT by kas7351
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To: kas7351
the average church has less than 70 members and most of the time the pastor has to have a second job just to pay the bills. If we put taxes on top of their fixed and variable expenses there will be a lot of churches that will close their doors and people will suffer as a result.

Make no mistake, if ANYONE says that they want to tax the churches, they REALLY mean that they want to *destroy* the churches. They may claim that churches are a "gravy train" but they know very well that the majority of churches are functioning Sunday-to-Sunday and would fold up overnight if they had to pony up taxes. The ones that survive would be forced to scale back non-essential services like charity and community outreach. They know this, and welcome it. There would be fewer churches, and the ones that remain would focussed on survival and would be blissfully quiet and disengaged. There are a lot of "conservatives" that would like that very much.

39 posted on 07/03/2012 5:50:39 AM PDT by jboot (Galt by default.)
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To: Letmarch75

I live in Collierville, which is fighting school and government consolidation with every fiber of its existence.

The consolidation of Memphis City Schools (which simply dissolved its charter to affect this) and Shelby County Schools represents the proverbial camel’s nose under the tent to full-on consolidation of Memphis and Shelby County. Which is, in and of itself, simply a money grab. The City Gubmint apparatchiks in Memphis want the suburban tax revenues so badly that they can barely contain their drool.

Ain’t goan’ happen.

There is a ballot referendum in Collierville to establish a separate Collierville school district, and to enact a small local sales tax to pay for it. I’ll be voting in favor. In my opinion, while I oppose tax increases generally, it’s the most workable way to get it done. EVERYBODY will have to contribute - which is opposed to a property tax increase (that would hit only home and property owners).


40 posted on 07/03/2012 6:03:43 AM PDT by Yudan (Living comes much easier once we admit we're dying.)
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To: Sybeck1

Any such payments would likely result in the charity budgets of the churches being reduced and the city will not be able to provide those same services for the same amount of money; they’ll hire employees who will never be as motivated as the church volunteers.


41 posted on 07/03/2012 6:33:06 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Sybeck1

Camel’s nose under the tent.


42 posted on 07/03/2012 7:06:47 AM PDT by Snow Eagle ("... Against all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC")
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To: AlexW

Tell your daughter to be well. We live in north Mississippi & I used to go to Oak Court Mall & we met friends at The Rendezvous...................no more. The only time I go to Memphis is if I have no other choice but to fly somewhere. lying out of Memphis is a real treat. The TSA workers are the rudest anywhere & go out of their way to make life miserable. They might as well have a sign on their chest that says, “ I am bitter, angry, my life bites & I hate white people.” I’m sorry, but I HATE the Memphis airport.

People who remember Memphis like you do must be so heartbroken at its demise. We are going to go to the Brooks Museum sometime this month, but we will be home while it is still daylight.


43 posted on 07/03/2012 7:23:14 AM PDT by leaning conservative (snow coming, school cancelled, yayyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Yudan

I’m a teacher in north Mississippi & I watch all the consolidation news w/ much interest.

Thank goodness for the Collierville outdoor mall. I stopped going to any Memphis malls years ago!


44 posted on 07/03/2012 7:30:05 AM PDT by leaning conservative (snow coming, school cancelled, yayyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: ebshumidors

Seems like the “front lines” are everywhere. This woman appears to be both crooked and crazy, and there I thought the “Ford Family of Crooked Pols” had a corner on that market down there in both corrupt politicians and funeral homes. Is Ophelia still in the slammer?


45 posted on 07/03/2012 7:59:51 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: Gay State Conservative
Will the 16,000 newly minted IRS agents be “asking” me to buy Government approved health insurance?

From the events of the past week the stinkin government dosen't have to "ask" anything. It sees everything we own as community property.

46 posted on 07/03/2012 9:18:15 AM PDT by oyez ( .Apparently The U.S. CONSTITUTION has been reduced to the consistency of quicksand.)
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To: leaning conservative
“I am bitter, angry, my life bites & I hate white people.”
You would be surprised who has told me that Memphis is the worst about that kind of thing.
47 posted on 07/03/2012 9:22:53 AM PDT by oyez ( .Apparently The U.S. CONSTITUTION has been reduced to the consistency of quicksand.)
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To: Sybeck1

Taxation of any recognized church is unlawful as a matter of Constitutional Law.

Taxation of a bona fide tax exempt company organized and recognized under IRS Section 501 (c)3 is unlawful as a matter of Federal law under any circumstance.


48 posted on 07/03/2012 2:56:54 PM PDT by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: bill1952

According to Sharia Law, Christian churches are taxed until they go broke, then the church is burnt to the ground during a Sunday Service.

Isn’t there a new Mosque going up in Murfreesboro, TN ?


49 posted on 07/03/2012 9:37:35 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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