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Texas justifiable homicides rise with 'Castle Doctrine'
chron.com ^ | 2 July, 2012 | Yang Wang and Dane Schiller

Posted on 07/03/2012 5:40:25 AM PDT by marktwain

In Houston early Friday, a 19-year-old convenience store clerk shot and killed a 52-year-old man who stole beer, according to police. The matter remains under investigation, but the clerk was not arrested.

In Texas and elsewhere, each time someone is shot dead with a claim of self-defense, a grand jury must decide if an indictment is warranted. However, deliberations by grand juries are secret and the basis of their decisions is seldom public.

The Chronicle also examined times of death, gender and race of both the shooters and the dead. Citizen shootings most often happen after dark, and involve a male shooting a handgun during a home invasion.

The person doing the killing is most often a minority, as is the person killed, according to the Chronicle analysis.

But the exchanges play out in an array of settings: From the taco truck parked on the corner of a street packed with tiny cantinas to the outside of a liquor store in Montrose, from the bedroom of a one-story house in northwest Houston to a gentrifying neighborhood northeast of downtown where townhouses tower over decaying shacks.

"The Castle Doctrine is now the law, and this is Texas," said Harris County District Attorney Pat Lykos. "If someone is invading your home or your place of business, you should not be obligated to retreat.

"At the same time, people should never seek a confrontation," she said.

'A losing situation'

Mark Brown had just returned home from a morning trip to the grocery store when he realized his home was being burglarized. He grabbed a 12-gauge shotgun, headed to the bedroom, where he saw his rings, watches, cuff links and bracelets piled in the middle of a bed. He heard a noise in the closet behind the closed door and fired one shot.

(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: banglist; castle; homicide; texas; tx
Isn't more justifiable homicides the expected and desired early results of the law? Aren't total homicides expected to drop as a result? Isn't this what was predicted?
1 posted on 07/03/2012 5:40:42 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

There are many Texans who “need killin’” in Houston alone. We won’t ever run out of them.


2 posted on 07/03/2012 5:42:28 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: marktwain
In a civilized society, victims allow themselves to be victimized.

</sarcasm>

3 posted on 07/03/2012 5:42:28 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: marktwain

I don’t believe that stealing a beer justifies the use of deadly force. If you’re going to take somebody’s life, you’d better have a damn good reason for doing it.


4 posted on 07/03/2012 5:46:23 AM PDT by popdonnelly (The first priority is get Obama out of the White House.)
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To: marktwain

When would-be criminals see career criminals getting shot-up by crazed ‘victims’, then things are working out just fine.

The idea isn’t to end crime (there will always be people that test the limits), but rather to just ‘encourage’ others that their chances of making to old age might improve if they choose to play by the rules. And keep in mind that there are not that many pathological criminals - the vast majority of bad guys do a cost/benefit analysis (in the back of their mind) before choosing that life. Now the cost is going up a bit...


5 posted on 07/03/2012 5:47:17 AM PDT by BobL
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To: marktwain
If someone is invading your home or your place of business, you should not be obligated to retreat.

Exactly right. It is my home, you're on my property uninvited doing me and my family harm. Further, I will not give up a tactical advantage, I will not give up the initiative, I will take it. You're here, harming me and my family, I have no way of knowing how far you intend to take that harmful behavior, no reason to trust in your good judgement, so I will respond with overwhelming, deadly force.

6 posted on 07/03/2012 5:50:44 AM PDT by ThunderSleeps (Stop obama now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: popdonnelly
I don’t believe that stealing a beer justifies the use of deadly force.

Depends on the brand of beer...

7 posted on 07/03/2012 5:51:27 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Greed + Envy = Liberalism)
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To: marktwain
The article almost makes it sound like a bad thing.

<GRIN>

8 posted on 07/03/2012 5:52:13 AM PDT by jtal (Runnin' a World in Need with White Folks' Greed - since 1492)
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To: marktwain
The raw number of justified homicides is absolutely meaningless.

The only numbers that matter are: has the ratio of justifiable homicides to felony homicides improved? Has the raw number of home invasions declined?

9 posted on 07/03/2012 5:53:44 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: popdonnelly

The clerk did society a big favor. Good riddance.


10 posted on 07/03/2012 5:53:44 AM PDT by Jacquerie (A republic no more.)
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To: wideawake
Has the raw number of home invasions declined?

It will eventually.
11 posted on 07/03/2012 5:57:03 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: marktwain
The (Houston) sChronicle is notoriously lib. This article tries to make it sound as though protecting your property is a bad thing.

FWIW...other reports show the 52 year old beer thief to be a repeat offender...stole from the store every day.

12 posted on 07/03/2012 6:01:15 AM PDT by Jane Long (Soli Deo Gloria!)
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To: popdonnelly

If you tell him to stop that and he threatens you or takes a threatening stance (”Wachou gonna do, MoFo?”), that’s good enough reason.


13 posted on 07/03/2012 6:01:54 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Jane Long

Good shooting, Citizens. Civilization thanks you (in spite of what some pinheaded LIBs say at the Chronic).


14 posted on 07/03/2012 6:03:08 AM PDT by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: BobL

“When would-be criminals see career criminals getting shot-up by crazed ‘victims’, then things are working out just fine.”

We’re going through a learning curve right now and it will take a while until the bad guys figure out that the game has changed. Fortunately, a lot of them will be eliminated in the process.


15 posted on 07/03/2012 6:03:53 AM PDT by Larry - Moe and Curly (Loose lips sink ships.)
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To: marktwain

30 years ago I was working at night in a Circle K in Loma Linda, California. A teenager came into the store and ran out with 2 12 packs of beer. I chased him out into the parking lot, where he jumped into a waiting car and sped off. I told my boss what had happened, and she reprimanded me. Apparently it was corporate policy to not attempt to apprehend shoplifters once they left the store. She told me that she had fired a guy who caught the kid in the parking lot and beat the snot out of him.


16 posted on 07/03/2012 6:07:15 AM PDT by Freestate316
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To: popdonnelly
I don’t believe that stealing a beer justifies the use of deadly force. If you’re going to take somebody’s life, you’d better have a damn good reason for doing it.

The clerk did have a good reason. The perp was stealing from him. Your goods represent a portion of your life, the time you invested to earn them. If someone is stealing your stuff they are stealing the time you spent to get that stuff. Time you CANNOT get back. They are stealing your life.

If the thugs don't want to die, then maybe they should just stop attacking people.

I applaud any citizen who defends themselves.

17 posted on 07/03/2012 6:14:35 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Larry - Moe and Curly
“When would-be criminals see career criminals getting shot-up by crazed ‘victims’, then things are working out just fine.”

That's why I say Detroit has a brighter future than people realize. Its the justifiable homicide capitol of the nation and Jesse Jackson anti gun protests draw more opposition than support.

This guy showed up at the last Jackson gun store protest in Detroit. I think the "O" is for Obama but its still a dangerous place to say such things. In any case, the guy is on the right path.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
18 posted on 07/03/2012 6:15:36 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: popdonnelly
how about 2 beers?

a 6 pack?

a case?

how about if a group comes in and starts loading up ALL the alcohol because word has spread that you wont do anything to stop them and you don't care if your beer is taken?

when you lose you business because of theft and your house because you lost your business, and your family, ect.. you might look at that statement differently.

19 posted on 07/03/2012 6:28:33 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: cripplecreek

Courageous guy! Cheers!


20 posted on 07/03/2012 6:28:48 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: Dudoight

He wasn’t alone either. Jackson only had 3 people show up for his protest vs 50 pro freedom counter protesters.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2897032/posts


21 posted on 07/03/2012 6:33:41 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: marktwain

Aren’t there ever any witnesses to these ‘castle doctrines’ incidents?


22 posted on 07/03/2012 6:52:54 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: txrefugee

The Katrina New Orleans ghetto transfer to Houston occured in 2005. Rates of self defense shootings in Houston rise in 2006.

LIEberals are going to be trying to churn of sympathy for the dead criminals and guilt and shame for those to defend themselves with a gun.

They are going to feed the false sense of injustice in the criminal’s criminal family and neighborhood for revenge.

Holder is using psychological warfare and propaganda campaign against gun use and ownership. Weak minded people will be manipulated.


23 posted on 07/03/2012 7:05:00 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: cripplecreek
I think the "O" is for Obama but its still a dangerous place to say such things.

Nope. It's the circle ("dot") over the "i" in "Leftist." Note that he has the same sort of circle over ever other "i" on the poster.

Not that I suspect he voted for "O"... with that list I'm sure he's a good, solid citizen. But he's probably wise enough to keep that issue separate...

24 posted on 07/03/2012 7:07:16 AM PDT by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Hwaet! Lar bith maest hord, sothlice!)
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To: marktwain

I concur that this isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Also look at the charts. This increase is happening predominantly in Houston, not Texas - Houston. Houston has been overrun by Katrina refugees in the last decade and that probably has much more to do with this increase than the Castle Doctrine.


25 posted on 07/03/2012 7:08:24 AM PDT by LaserJock
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To: wideawake
The raw number of justified homicides is absolutely meaningless. The only numbers that matter are: has the ratio of justifiable homicides to felony homicides improved? Has the raw number of home invasions declined?

Currently, the number of justifiable homicides is about triple the number of Death Row executions (2010 executions: 17; justifiable homicides: 48; murders: 1,249). The deterrent effect of a criminal being blown away in the middle of his crime is much greater than the effect of an execution decades after the crime, when all the people who knew the criminal have mostly forgotten him. A reporter whines about lack of "due process", but the probability of getting the wrong man is reduced when you have him right in your bedroom, as opposed to the courtroom.

26 posted on 07/03/2012 7:17:28 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: popdonnelly

If you come into my house uninvited in the middle of the night, you won’t even have to touch anything, let alone steal something to be shot dead.

Not enough theives have been shot dead yet for stealing beer, or even a penny from the tip jar.

I know that’s not reason enough for you, but you won’t be able to speak your objections.


27 posted on 07/03/2012 7:55:11 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Liberals, at their core, are aggressive & dangerous to everyone around them,)
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To: popdonnelly

No wonder you got upset when someone defended their business.

In scrolling down and reading the thread, I notice you don’t even defend your own words.


28 posted on 07/03/2012 8:01:15 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Liberals, at their core, are aggressive & dangerous to everyone around them,)
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To: marktwain

I amuses me how the “Followers of Darwin” aka. the “liberal Bleeding heart atheists” think the Castle Doctrine is such a bad thing. The castle Doctrine is the epitome of “Natural Selection played out”.

The criminals dumb enough to screw with a Texan get “selected out” of the gene pool by a rapidly moving piece of lead which was initiated on it’s trajectory by another entity who is protecting their genes aka. their family and their resources aka. their house.

Instead the liberals wanna play the very “Control Freak God” that they claim to hate so much only elevating themselves into the place and position of “God” by them selves. It is the height of Hubris and a sure road to disaster!


29 posted on 07/03/2012 8:22:50 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

[ In a civilized society, victims allow themselves to be victimized.

</sarcasm> ]

Yes, because the ones who just lay there and take it last far longer in the long run than those who fight back to protect their genetic legacy...

Just ask the poor dumb fat Dodo bird who had no natural predators but was very tasty!

Liberals want us to be like the Dodo bird, dumb fat and tasty and food for any non-natural predator who comes along...


30 posted on 07/03/2012 8:25:02 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: Jane Long
FWIW...other reports show the 52 year old beer thief to be a repeat offender...stole from the store every day.

Yes, and some reports had his age at 45. I heard the screeching taped interviews with his kin. More of "holder's people" wantin justice.

31 posted on 07/03/2012 10:51:37 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (It's time to take out the trash in DC.)
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