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Military Pay Higher Than Ever Compared to Civiliams
Military.Com ^ | June 28, 2012 | Military.com

Posted on 07/03/2012 7:22:45 AM PDT by Wuli

As private sector salaries flattened over the last decade, military pay climbed steadily, enough so that by 2009 pay and allowances for enlisted members exceeded the pay of 90 percent of private sector workers of similar age and education level.

cut

The military gained its lead with annual raises from 2000 to 2010 that exceeded private sector wage growth and some extra increases in housing allowances to eliminate average out-of-pocket rental costs. Meanwhile, civilian pay growth stalled as markets collapsed and jobs disappeared.

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By 2009, the report says, average RMC for enlisted exceeded the median wage for civilians in each comparison group -- high school diploma, some college and two-year degrees. Average RMC was $50,747 or "about $21,800 more than the median earnings for civilians from the combined comparison groups."

For officers, average RMC was $94,735 in 2009. That was "88 percent higher than earnings of civilians with bachelor's degrees, and 47 percent higher than earnings of those with graduate-level degrees," the report says.

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Marine Staff Sgt. Andrew Gallagher, 29, doesn't believe pay comparisons using only age and education level, even with associate's degree earners tossed in the mix, is fair to career enlisted.

Gallagher will pass the 12-year mark in the Corps this November. He has served three tours in Iraq, the second shortened by wounds suffered in an IED attack. His total pay, before taxes and including BAH and BAS, is about $58,000 a year at Camp Lejeune, N.C.

You can also read the full "11th Quadrennial Review of Military Compensation report

at: http://militaryadvantage.military.com/2012/06/report-calls-for-big-changes-in-military-pay/

(Excerpt) Read more at military.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: military; militarypay; usmilitary; wagesandbenefits
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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I agree with the Marine Staff Sgt. quoted in the excerpt.

The demographic values used for comparison do not fully identify similar groups, between the military and civilian sectors. Neither age nor age and education combined do it. At a minimum "years of service" vs "years employed in the same career" need to be used. But, the comparison is not made and it's likely that good data for it is available only on the military side.

I guess, given when these latest military raises began, one can maybe say either "it's Bush's fault" or "Thank you George W. Bush", depending on your perspective.

1 posted on 07/03/2012 7:22:49 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Wuli

IMO the only important part of this article is that they are going to try and reduce pay/benefits for the military.


2 posted on 07/03/2012 7:27:36 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Wuli
Whoever it is complaining, they are free to enlist (if they pass all the qualifying tests).
3 posted on 07/03/2012 7:27:52 AM PDT by meadsjn (Sarah 2012, or sooner)
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To: Wuli
The exception of 2001, how many civilians have died while at work? how many have suffered multiple amputations while at work? How about life long brain injuries?

This is the reality that all authors while talking about military compensation.

Military members, almost regardless of their military specialties write an dated check to the Republic. it is for all of their futures. Sometimes that check is cashed in a “training accident”; sometimes in combat, sometimes there is a partial refund (WIA instead of KIA), and worse of all the military member pays but the check isn't cashed (MIA).

I first wrote my personal check in 1969 and the government held it until 1990. I was lucky, I got the check back uncashed. Too many of my friends and students didn't get theirs back.

4 posted on 07/03/2012 7:34:45 AM PDT by Nip (TANSTAAFL and BOHICA)
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To: Wuli

Well if they aren’t, they should be.


5 posted on 07/03/2012 7:37:21 AM PDT by JudyinCanada
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To: Wuli

Today’s military is a “smart” military, and smart people don’t come cheap.


6 posted on 07/03/2012 7:41:29 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: JudyinCanada

If you had a private sector profession with a similar risk of death or injury, the pay would be much greater (e.g. wildcat oil well fire fighters). And in those industries it is a risk of accident, not a risk of someone intentionally trying to kill you.


7 posted on 07/03/2012 7:43:23 AM PDT by littleharbour
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To: Wuli

I wonder if a part of these increases counted include “combat pay,” given the fact that we’ve had men and women in harms way for the last 11 years.

It sounds like the government is looking to cut enlisted pay, while trying to come up with increased compensation for welfare queens and illegal aliens.

Mark


8 posted on 07/03/2012 7:45:22 AM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: Nip
The exception of 2001, how many civilians have died while at work? how many have suffered multiple amputations while at work? How about life long brain injuries?

May I suggest that you do some research, and answer your question for yourself?

If you think the answer is "none" or "very few" ...

You will find your research very enlightening.

9 posted on 07/03/2012 7:50:45 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Wuli
The higher ranks may be paid more but why are the low ranks and families bankrupt and on food stamps?
10 posted on 07/03/2012 7:56:34 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: Wuli
I think any job where there was a good chance you could die as part of the work, deserves more pay. Isn't there a "combat bonus" or "combat pay" in effect for war zones?

If they are not in a war zone, then a pay scale comparison of "military lawyer" versus "civilian lawyer", or a "military chef" versus a "civilian chef" would be more valid.

11 posted on 07/03/2012 8:13:47 AM PDT by Scooter100 ("Now that the fog has lifted, I still can't find my pipe". --- S. Holmes)
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To: Wuli

These kind of comparisons make me sick. What private sector jobs even come close the requirement to place one’s life on the line? In many cases, our military personnel have had multiple tours in Iraq/Afghanistan, many coming home wounded, leaving families behind, etc. These kind of stories imply that they don’t EARN the higher pay. No, they do earn it and then some.


12 posted on 07/03/2012 8:18:45 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: driftdiver

You mean like to the level when I was in? I remember my first ‘pay’.....A twenty, a five and a one. The DI then marched us over to a little building with a Red and White striped pole where that bastard proceeded to cut off all my hair. And, I had the privilege of having to pay that bastard a dollar. Much later in training, I got to spend the five in the base bowling alley and drank some 3.2 beer.

When I got out of basic, my pay was the equivalent of $47 every two weeks. Eight years later, I left that good job, and my pay was a whopping $594.60 per month...

Based on what I and others got, pay seems pretty good now.


13 posted on 07/03/2012 8:20:41 AM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham

Exactly. You get what you pay for!


14 posted on 07/03/2012 8:23:56 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: mountainlion

Don’t forget military is not a 9 to 5 job , it’s a 24/7 job ,so now break down the hourly wage


15 posted on 07/03/2012 8:30:06 AM PDT by molson209
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To: Gaffer

yes times have changed

According to this site the pay doesn’t match what this story implies. http://www.militaryfactory.com/2013-military-pay-chart.asp

An new E1 makes $1,516 per month. Of course for most of them they are making combat pay of a couple hundred.

Someone with a 4 yr degree makes a few more bucks, still not that great.


16 posted on 07/03/2012 8:35:04 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Gaffer

I still have my first LES once out of basic: $212, $100 a week after taxes. The LES I have for living off base was $435. This was in 1984 when an apartment was still $350. I was one broke SOB.


17 posted on 07/03/2012 8:39:37 AM PDT by CodeToad (Homosexuals are homophobes. They insist on being called 'gay' instead.)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: Nip

‘The exception of 2001, how many civilians have died while at work?’

Many more than in the military. Go research it yourself.


19 posted on 07/03/2012 8:51:38 AM PDT by AlmaKing
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To: Scooter100

Well, let’s not forget Steven Seagal was just a “cook” in Under Siege!

Seriously, the problem with that is those who are in non-combat gigs or stateside can, in a few hours, find themselves up to their necks in it. Case in point, the First Fighter Wing at Langely AFB in 1990. On August 2nd, they were at peace. Sure, flying F-15’s in its own right is dangerous enough, as is working on the engines, loading missiles and bombs, etc. But those are just a few Air Force Specialty Codes (AFSC—same as MOS), while the rest of the wing were cooks, assorted pencil pushers, bottle washers, gaurds, first sergeants, supply clerks etc, etc, etc.

But on that very day, Iraq invaded Kuwait. Within a couple of days President George HW Bush sent Sec State James Baker and Sec of Defense Dick Cheney to Saudi Arabia with vital intelligence. They explained to King Kahlid that there was no line, no defense at all to keep Iraq from just continuing into the Saudi oil fields; indeed, intelligence showed they were continuing to stream past overrun Kuwaiti positions to the very border of Saudi Arabia itself, with a long train of supplies streaming in from Iraq. At that time, Operation Desert Shield began on 7 August 1990 when U.S. troops were sent to Saudi Arabia due to the request of its monarch, King Fahd, who had earlier called for U.S. military assistance.

The troops that led were those from the 1FW. All the planes left on August 6th, and the rest of the Wing joined up over the next few days.

The point of my tale is to show that you never know, as a member of the armed forces, when the balloon is going to go up, and you may be being shot at or dead withing 24-48 hours. This can happen EVEN if you are a cook, a bottle washer, a potato peeler, or, like me, a computer operator.


20 posted on 07/03/2012 8:55:45 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Wuli

I too agree with the quoted Marine. He is spot on.

Liberals like to lump a lot of things into the equation to show how overcompensated the military is.

And this is definitely a movement to prepare the turf to cut the budget even further.

Damn them all, damn them to hell. This is the 1930’s again. Just go ahead and cut the military, and pollute it with social experiments to turn it into a jobs program. Just watch and see what happens when we get into a shooting war.

Damn this makes me madder than a hornet.


21 posted on 07/03/2012 9:07:25 AM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: Wuli
Military enlisted should be compared against hourly workers. When this PROPER comparison is made, and actual hours on the job calculated, one will find a large disparity between civilians and military. 5-11 hour days is commonplace for Infantry units of the US Marines and more elite Army Units. at least a day a month on average a US Marine can expect to stand some type of overnight guard or watch duty, and this is stateside.

In the Marine Corps Infantry, about the top 30% of enlisted earn E-4 shortly before the end of a four year tour. E-3, over two years, pay is currently $1868/Mo.

If we consider the average of 60 hour weeks worked, this is equivalent to a civilian working the same hours at $6.15/hr, less than minimum wage. Getting sent to a combat zone runs the hours worked through the roof. Blackwater, for instance, has to pay $150k/yr with full room and board to get civilians to do the same thing.

Civilian work is not comparable to military SERVICE, and the good men and women to SERVE our country, generally, do not do it for money.

SENTINEL=Former USMC SGT

22 posted on 07/03/2012 9:11:26 AM PDT by SENTINEL (Romney is to Conservatism what Mormonism is to Christianity.)
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To: Alas Babylon!

An even better illustration is what happened in Korea in 1950 when North Koreans invaded the south. Our troops that were there at that point were ill trained, supplied and prepared, and were composed largely of support personnel not suited for more than light peacetime guard duty.

Granted, today, our composition of forces in the path of an unexpected and aggressive foe might be more computer specialists than cooks due to the changes in the way the military handles support personnel and logistics, but the end result would likely the same.


23 posted on 07/03/2012 9:18:35 AM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: Wuli

well, according to the military pay table for 2012, you have to be an E-7 over 16 years to make the kind of money they describe...

Or an O-5 over 14 years to make the kind of money they describe....

what a crock of an article this is.. just an attempt to get support to reduce pay..


24 posted on 07/03/2012 9:20:23 AM PDT by joe fonebone (I am the 15%)
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To: Wuli

I was in the navy in 1962 making $250 every other week stationed on a ship as a doctor and was selected to be part of the invasion of Cuba during the Cuban Crisis and practiced climbing down a debark net into a pitching LCVP (poppa boat. “Great fun”.


25 posted on 07/03/2012 9:22:22 AM PDT by jesseam
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To: rlmorel
"...Just watch and see what happens when we get into a shooting war..."

For anyone who thinks that is disparaging to what our troops have been doing since 2001, I didn't mean it the way it came out.

What I meant was, watch what happens when we get into a shooting war with an enemy who has the means and resources to prevent being bowled over by our forces.

Somehow, people think that fighting against a foe who is going to contest our control of the air or sea is never going to happen.

26 posted on 07/03/2012 9:24:29 AM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: SENTINEL

Good post and thank you for your service, SENTINEL.


27 posted on 07/03/2012 9:25:50 AM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: driftdiver; meadsjn; Nip; JudyinCanada; Mr Ramsbotham; MarkL; mountainlion; Scooter100; Godzilla

I am not in disagreement with any of your comments.

As I said in my original comment - like the Marine taff Sgt. who was quoted, the basis of comparison in the study does not make for a matching of equals.

And like all of you, I feel how can it be. One involves putting your life on the line for the nation (potentially always and in reality often enough) and the other doesn’t.

So here’s the reality:

No matter what we think of military pay, morally or economically, time, demographics and the persistence of it versus the ups and downs of other expenditures has military pay as the second highest component of the DOD budget, after “operations and maintenance”.

see chart in: http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Defense-Spending.html

And, due to pension and health benefits in the “military personnel” expense, it will not decline as fast as “operations and maintenance” when active combat missions, and the DOD infrastructure to support them, are scaled back.

Unless other categories of DOD expense mount greatly (as for possible new weapons acquisitions) we could find “military personnel” as the top DOD budget item, or at the least it will continue as the second highest item, as it is now, but not likely ranked lower.

What is the point?

No matter what you and I think, DOD spending is political.

When the pols are fighting over the pet projects in the DOD budget (yes including their pet weapons that will employ or keep employed workers in THEIR district) their first choices, the easiest choices when looking for budget offsets to pay for them IS the categories in the DOD budget that are already the largest.

When the pols get done, the moral value of the troops sacrifice is reduced to an economic figure that permits the pols to get whatever else THEY want to see in the DOD budget.

It’s not fair, to the troops, but it is the battle we are up against when defending military pay.

There is probably not a way around it that does not cut Congress too much out of the authority they need.

They will continue to work the DOD budget as an economic interest THEIR district has a rightful portion to, pushing up the cost of political priorities in the DOD budget, from which strategic and moral commitments must give up some “savings” in order to get a DOD budget passed.

It stinks, but it’s the reality.


28 posted on 07/03/2012 9:52:15 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Wuli

For officers, average RMC was $94,735 in 2009. That was “88 percent higher than earnings of civilians with bachelor’s degrees, and 47 percent higher than earnings of those with graduate-level degrees,” the report says.

LOL! What a joke. A LT with a bachelor’s degree first has to gain admission to naval flight training (think top 3% of applicants) and then has an additional 1 1/2 to 2 years of astonishingly tough training to become an aviator or naval flight officer. After that they have another 3-4 years to become an aircraft commander or mission commander, responsible for a $200M aircraft, the lives of their crew, and the custody and use of weapons. I think a JG or LT making $90K all told versus an unemployed loser with a “BA in Social Thought” living in his mom’s basement means the officer is underpaid.


29 posted on 07/03/2012 10:28:02 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: pabianice

yes, as we all said

they are comparing apples and oranges


30 posted on 07/03/2012 11:01:56 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Wuli
I read somewhere that 50% of current veterans are seeking medical disability. Obama wants to cut the insurance? It took me a year to get treatment for Cancer in the VA system. I got the GI bill which payed my College bill. These kids are getting the shaft.
I talked to a guy that came in about the time Regan came in and he said there was quite a modernization while he was in. Too bad the current administration wants to support large banks and protect union pensions and take away form the ones that risked the most.
31 posted on 07/03/2012 11:24:51 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: Wuli

To me it sounds like happenstance. Military personnel got a much needed and long overdue series of pay hikes. It wasn’t *anybody’s* fault that civilian employment and salaries went in the crapper. Also explains high re-enlistment rates and competition to get in, despite all of the problems this regime has foisted upon them. The only way to save them is to throw these thugs out.

They stood up for us. Will we stand up for them?


32 posted on 07/03/2012 11:57:06 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Cheney/Rumsfeld 2012)
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To: driftdiver

You could look at that as starting pay. Interestingly, on that chart it shows that the salary for an E-1 or an E-2 can never go up no matter how many years of service. That tells me that those ranks are intended to be an up or out situation. Once E-3 is attained the salary begins to rise. The same does NOT hold true for baby officers.


33 posted on 07/03/2012 12:08:37 PM PDT by ichabod1 (Cheney/Rumsfeld 2012)
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To: CodeToad
When I joined the Marines in 1981, the basic pay for an E-1 was $501 a month. Seemed like a lot at the time. Especially as I spent the first 2 1/2 months in boot camp and didn't spend a penny. Once out of boot camp, I got three (or more) good meals a day at the mess hall, a place to sleep and beer was 50 cents a glass at the E-club.

For an 18-year-old, I was living rather large. Young, single and not a care in the world!

34 posted on 07/03/2012 12:19:57 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: driftdiver
An new E1 makes $1,516 per month

You would have to get a job that paid a whole $9.50 an hour to make more then that.

Considering that minimum wage is $7.25 an hour a job paying that would not be hard to find.

35 posted on 07/03/2012 12:23:28 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Demons run when a good man goes to war)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

“’An new E1 makes $1,516 per month’ You would have to get a job that paid a whole $9.50 an hour to make more then that.
Considering that minimum wage is $7.25 an hour a job paying that would not be hard to find.”

But you also need to toss in medical care, room & board, loads of excellent and expensive training, and many other items that cost civilians even more money, not to mention special duty pay for various duties.


36 posted on 07/03/2012 12:27:07 PM PDT by CodeToad (Homosexuals are homophobes. They insist on being called 'gay' instead.)
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To: Wuli
The military is a pretty good gig these days. I'm an E6 with almost nine years service and I make more than my school-teacher brother with a masters degree. On top of that, I only pay taxes on about half my income. And then there's then bennies. I pay nothing more than gas money for my wife and kids to see a doctor.

Sure, I'm getting ready for a seven month deployment but most of the time I spend at home working 12 hour days four days a week. In an hour I'll be off of work for the holiday and I don't have to report back until Monday. All of it "liberty" (not counted against the 30 days leave I get each year). Not a bad gig at all these days.

37 posted on 07/03/2012 12:43:40 PM PDT by Drew68 (I WILL vote to defeat Barack Hussein Obama!)
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To: meadsjn
Whoever it is complaining, they are free to enlist (if they pass all the qualifying tests).

People are lined up around the block to enlist these days. All branches are easily meeting enlistment and retention quotas. In fact, the navy is kicking people out left and right.

38 posted on 07/03/2012 12:45:42 PM PDT by Drew68 (I WILL vote to defeat Barack Hussein Obama!)
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To: mountainlion
The higher ranks may be paid more but why are the low ranks and families bankrupt and on food stamps?

It used to be a typical E1 was fresh out of high school, 18-years old with no dependants. E1 pay was sufficient. These days recruits are increasingly older, often well into their 20s with spouses and children to support. E1 pay doesn't go very far with more mouths to feed.

39 posted on 07/03/2012 12:49:54 PM PDT by Drew68 (I WILL vote to defeat Barack Hussein Obama!)
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To: Wuli

del is is considerably better than the $68.00 a month that I enlisted for, and I think that is about $28.00 a month more than the men who fought WW II received.


40 posted on 07/03/2012 1:09:35 PM PDT by itsahoot (That Coup d'├ętat we had in 08, It is now complete, with unlimited power.)
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To: Nip

I think only 16% of Army personnel are “combat” with the rest being support. There certainly never seems to be an end to REMFs.


41 posted on 07/03/2012 1:48:20 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: joe fonebone

Propaganda is the Left’s bread and butter. They don’t even need facts or reality for that matter.


42 posted on 07/03/2012 1:55:07 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Wuli
Good afternoon.

Using an E-6 with time in grade of $58,000 with BAH and BAS (gross), let's see what the hourly pay is: $58,000/24/365 = $6.62 per hour. That's 87% of minimum wage.

Plus, you have the added bonus of getting shot at, and bombed...not to mention disease, stress, and various other sh@t.

Ok, the G.I. bill kinda makes up for that...

5.56mm

43 posted on 07/03/2012 2:02:04 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: Godzilla

They earn every penny they make and no one should be envious of them


44 posted on 07/03/2012 3:39:11 PM PDT by Kaslin (Acronym for OBAMA: One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: Gaffer

Gaffer,

Right. If I recall correctly, in 1966 I got $92 a month in basic training, minus haircuts, and the Army, unlike the other branches, still only paid once a month. I got out after three years as an E-5, married, over two and was taking home about $350. It wasn’t easy getting by.


45 posted on 07/03/2012 3:52:13 PM PDT by beelzepug ("Blind obedience to arbitrary rules is a sign of mental illness")
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To: itsahoot

Not to mention, the cash is directly deposited, vice being given a “voucher” that you might be able to cash in after returning from the hot theater.

With all things said,...I still prefer the cash paycheck given by the pay officer,...(though it sure looked tempting driving by all those Porsche 911s to Atsugi from Fuji twice a month with a .45 on the hip and 2 satchels of cash on board....7;^)


46 posted on 07/03/2012 4:33:32 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Wuli

PS,..what’s a civiliam?


47 posted on 07/03/2012 4:34:29 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Kaslin

My active duty husband has gotten up MOST days, for the past 26 years, around 5 a.m. His days have usually ended, on MOST days, around 7 p.m.

Some jobs he’s worked 6 days a week, with this schedule.

Not to mention, deployments.

When you break it down by an hourly amount, it’s pathetic.

My husband is an officer, and is compensated well, but folks our age who didn’t serve, who went to college, are now at the top of their game — well, some are making several hundred thousand per year or more. Some are millionaires and VP’s, presidents of companies, business owners, etc. doing extremely well.

My husband likes to think he could have been all of these things — and the level of responsibility he’s had in some jobs rivaled many a CEO — but he barely tops $150K at the end of a 26-year career.

It sounds like a lot, but it’s really not — not for what he’s put into it. However, he’d gladly do it again, I’m sure. He’ll get a nice retirement, in increments, but guys like Obama are going to see to it that all of that is eroded, piece by piece.


48 posted on 07/03/2012 8:36:06 PM PDT by LibsRJerks
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To: driftdiver
Compare and contrast with a night stocker at WalMart in Williston ND, making $15.00-$16.00 per hour...And the stockers get OT over 40 hours and are working all they want.

That puts it in perspective.

49 posted on 07/03/2012 9:47:20 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Drew68

Let’s be honest - a good percentage of junior military members are in financial trouble due to bad decisions i.e. idiotic car loans, spending more than they take in.


50 posted on 07/04/2012 2:33:58 AM PDT by KantianBurke (Where was the Tea Party when Dubya was spending like a drunken sailor?)
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