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Under siege: "Stop and frisk" polarizes New York
Reuters ^ | 7/3/2012

Posted on 07/03/2012 8:28:08 AM PDT by EBH

Telly Hudgins has been stopped and frisked by the police too many times to count in the Brownsville, New York, public housing project where he lives. One occasion sticks in his memory. "I had my pajamas on and my slippers on and I'm emptying my garbage" at the trash chute. "They asked me for ID to prove I lived there. Who walks around in their pajamas with ID?" asked the black, 35-year-old counselor for the mentally handicapped. He says he complained about the search and was issued a summons for disorderly conduct.

Deborah Richardson, 60, a black postal worker, has delivered mail in east Brooklyn's Brownsville for 14 years. She takes a different view of the New York Police Department's contentious Stop, Question and Frisk policy. "I'd like to see more stops and frisks," she said, leaning out of her postal truck. "This is a dangerous neighborhood. I won't even go up in those monstrosities anymore," she said, gesturing toward one of the towering housing complexes where she once pushed a mail cart. After four years of what she says was harassment from residents, many waiting for welfare checks, she got a transfer to a parcel truck delivery route.

For nearly two months the NYPD's stop-and-frisk policy has drawn New York City into an emotional debate about race, policing and Fourth Amendment rights. Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly have fiercely defended the program against an onslaught of criticism from judges, civil rights leaders and a vocal block of Democratic politicians. It has become a defining issue for next year's mayoral election.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 2012; democrats; mayorbloomberg; nyc; nypd; rapeofliberty; stopandfrisk; waronliberty
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Training the masses...
1 posted on 07/03/2012 8:28:15 AM PDT by EBH
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To: EBH

Keep voting for liberals you stupid people!


2 posted on 07/03/2012 8:32:27 AM PDT by IbJensen (If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed)
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To: EBH

New York. Getting EXACTLY what they voted for!

Don’t like it? Get rid of your MARXIST mayor.


3 posted on 07/03/2012 8:32:37 AM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: EBH

...after all the stupid things going on in New York, this is what has them all pissed off?

..............shakes head.........................


4 posted on 07/03/2012 8:34:32 AM PDT by Tzimisce (THIS SUCKS)
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To: EBH
NYC Police at work defending the constitution


5 posted on 07/03/2012 8:38:10 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: EBH

I’d love a NY cop to try to stop & frisk me on one of my infrequent visits there.


6 posted on 07/03/2012 8:38:10 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: EBH

Another Chicago in the making.


7 posted on 07/03/2012 8:38:40 AM PDT by RC2 (Buy American and support the Wounded Warrior Project whenever possible.)
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To: EBH

It would be a lot easier to just wall the place off with barbed wire and lots of electricity, and air-drop the food stamps and welfare checks. Oh wait - - the Democrat party “base” of loser, bums, deadbeats, and parasites get “EBT” Visa cards now, don’t they? Okay, forget the air drops.


8 posted on 07/03/2012 8:42:37 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: green iguana

You’ll end up in a NYC jail, probably after making close friends with a broom handle.


9 posted on 07/03/2012 8:44:08 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: EBH
The road to a liberal utopia has a few potholes, but Bloomberg has a plan to rid the city of over-salined, trans-fatted, obese, gun-toting free-thinkers.
10 posted on 07/03/2012 8:44:50 AM PDT by Tex-Con-Man (T. Coddington Van Voorhees VII 2012 - "Together, I Shall Ride You To Victory")
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To: EBH

Next up Bloomie will ban Easter so it won’t upset the Muslims living in NYC. No more marshmallow chickies and bunnies or jelly beans or Easter Egg hunts or ....


11 posted on 07/03/2012 8:45:30 AM PDT by SkyDancer ("Ambition Without Talent Is Sad - Talent Without Ambition Is Worse")
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To: EBH

Liberals are 100% OK with requiring “your papers” for American citizens who dare step onto a public sidewalk, but cannot tolerate asking illegals or voters for ID.


12 posted on 07/03/2012 8:46:20 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: EBH

Some in NYC are claiming that there weren’t enough stop and frisks which lead to NYC resembling a war zone this past week:

City shot to hell: Gun victims soar 46% for 1-week period

Tuesday, July 03, 2012 8:03:02 AM · by ConservativeStatement · 21 replies
New York Post ^ | July 3, 2012 | LARRY CELONA, JAMIE SCHRAM and DAN MACLEOD

It’s heating up out there. The number of people shot in the city last week jumped nearly 50 percent compared with the same period last year — and a deadly mix of hotter temperatures and fewer stop-and-frisks is to blame, cops said yesterday. Sixty people were shot in the five boroughs last week — a 46 percent increase over last year’s 41 victims, police said. And that could just be the beginning, warned one law-enforcement source.


13 posted on 07/03/2012 8:55:17 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS DESTROYING AMERICA-LOOK AT WHAT IT DID TO THE WHITE HOUSE!)
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To: EBH

“Training the masses... “

Training Urban Ferals is a contradiction in terms.


14 posted on 07/03/2012 8:58:07 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: EBH

This doesn’t affect me personally, as the only way you’re ever going to catch me in New York City is if I happen to take a wrong turn off of Interstate 95 when I’m passing through on my way to Maine and that’s gotten pretty hard to do in the last forty years.

The way I read this article is that the criminal element of New York City is complaining that the Police are making it difficult for them to apply their criminal trade, and as a large part of the Democrat Party’s voting constituency is made up of criminals, I think this “Stop and Frisk” policy will be very short lived.


15 posted on 07/03/2012 8:59:04 AM PDT by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: driftdiver

I doubt that. The cops there know that stop & frisk is illegal unless given permission. Most of the folk they stop don’t know that tho’, and give implied consent.


16 posted on 07/03/2012 8:59:09 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: EBH

My answer to these JBTs is simple. I don’t have to answer your questions, and I’m eager to sue. So please, give me an illegal order. How is this standing up in court? It can’t be constitutional.

Am I the only one who thinks gang wars should be legal? Give ‘em a shoot house and let them kill each other to their homicidal hearts content.


17 posted on 07/03/2012 9:08:06 AM PDT by LevinFan
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To: green iguana; driftdiver

Wow, you two are wrong on this. Why don’t you google ‘Terry Stops’ and see how these stops are absolutely lawful and have been upheld over the years.


18 posted on 07/03/2012 9:11:30 AM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: EBH

You live on the government plantation you play by the government rules.


19 posted on 07/03/2012 9:18:16 AM PDT by sheana
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To: thefactor

A Terry Stop requires reasonable suspicion. I tend not to give people reason to be suspicious...

There’s nothing reasonably suspicious in taking your garbage to the communal garbage shoot in your PJs. That was an illegal stop unless the guy gave consent to be frisked, or a crime in the area had been called in as having been committed by a dude in PJs.

The vast majority of stop & frisk stops do not involve reasonable suspicion, and are illegal.


20 posted on 07/03/2012 9:20:41 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: EBH
"This is a dangerous neighborhood. I won't even go up in those monstrosities anymore," she said, gesturing toward one of the towering housing complexes where she once pushed a mail cart.
Can you imagine living there?
21 posted on 07/03/2012 9:22:22 AM PDT by samtheman (The Trillion Dollar ObamaCareTax definitely is a tax; just ask the US Supreme Court.)
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To: green iguana
I’d love a NY cop to try to stop & frisk me on one of my infrequent visits there.

Why would you love it?

Would it fulfill some tough-guy/street lawyer fantasy?

How do you think things would go?

Would you refuse to cooperate and walk away?

Would you refuse to cooperate and argue fine legal points, dazzling the cop with your knowledge?

Do you think you would intimidate the cop into backing down just by your physical posture?

22 posted on 07/03/2012 9:27:29 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: EBH
[For Bloomberg, an independent who will be stepping down next year after three terms, the question is central to his legacy. Having presided over an historic reduction in violent crime, he boasts that New York is “America's safest city by far. . .”]

Bloomberg inherited a safer city and a successful anti-crime program from New York's previous administration.

23 posted on 07/03/2012 9:30:51 AM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: green iguana
You obviously have never been a cop in a busy place. You have not seen what these people are capable of. You tell the victim of a robbery that you didn't stop people who matched the description of the crime because you were afraid of a reporter writing an unflattering article.

Oh, and by the way, let me say that at any given time about 60% of the people in Brownsville are walking around in their PJs. On the streets, in stores, on the playgrounds. That's how they walk around all day, everyday. Also, a frisk for weapons does not require consent. People don't know the difference between a frisk and a search.

24 posted on 07/03/2012 9:31:00 AM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: thefactor

I’m wrong he’d end up in jail??

Oh right, unless he was family.


25 posted on 07/03/2012 9:34:16 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: wideawake

Love was the wrong word. The cops there know the stops are illegal w/o out consent or reasonable suspicion. Few of the people they stop know it tho’. I’m curious to see how one would react when a very polite person they stopped turned out to be someone who did know.

It’ll never happen tho’, as I don’t fit the mold they’re looking for.


26 posted on 07/03/2012 9:37:37 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: EBH

Brownsville is a deadly part of town. And these public housing projects are mostly storage bins for addicts and criminals. The government takes all the dregs and subsidizes their projects.

What this amounts to is a government “solution” to a government-caused problem, all subsidized with somebody else’s tax dollars.


27 posted on 07/03/2012 9:42:56 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: green iguana

A Terry Stop requires reasonable suspicion. I tend not to give people reason to be suspicious...

<><><><>

If a cop needs reasonable suspicion to stop and frisk you, and is motivated to stop and frisk you, how difficult do you think it will be to have some somehow materialize?

And your legal remedies are AFTER you’ve spent some time in the slammer, and what do you anticipate will be the ramifications to the cop? I’d say zero.

Either way, you’re spending the night in jail, your anonymous internet forum tough guy talk notwithstanding.


28 posted on 07/03/2012 9:43:30 AM PDT by dmz
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To: dmz

Hmm - somehow I missed the tough-guy talk.


29 posted on 07/03/2012 9:49:27 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: green iguana

Your first post - the I’d love for it to happen to me comment ....

Sounded like you intend to show the cop a thing or two.

My apologies if what you meant was that you’d simply give the cop a stern talking to.


30 posted on 07/03/2012 9:55:34 AM PDT by dmz
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To: Grampa Dave

The strict gun laws are working.


31 posted on 07/03/2012 9:55:34 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: EBH
""I had my pajamas on and my slippers on and I'm emptying my garbage" at the trash chute. "They asked me for ID to prove I lived there. Who walks around in their pajamas with ID?" "

Vinnie the Chin.
32 posted on 07/03/2012 9:56:39 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
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To: dmz

Yup - I already said love was the wrong word. That sentence could be read the way you did, tho’ that was not my intent.

“A stern talking to” - LOL - no, not even that. Just polite, informed non-consent. If he went ahead and frisked anyway, I’d file a suit after. I wouldn’t give him a reason for an arrest during.


33 posted on 07/03/2012 10:08:17 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: green iguana

Last I saw, it was a table with two NYPD and two TSA, in view of the token booth.

Bring friends


34 posted on 07/03/2012 10:13:22 AM PDT by wastedyears ("God? I didn't know he was signed onto the system.")
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To: green iguana

Do you have a link with that information in case I ever need it? I wouldn’t know where to look to find it.


35 posted on 07/03/2012 10:16:17 AM PDT by wastedyears ("God? I didn't know he was signed onto the system.")
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To: wastedyears

I have no idea what that means.


36 posted on 07/03/2012 10:16:36 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: LevinFan

If I visited NYC I’d be sure to carry baggies of powdered sugar in my pockets just to make the cops think they have justified their unconstitutional act of “stop and frisk.”

If they asked me what it was I would respond with, “food supplement.” LOL!


37 posted on 07/03/2012 10:16:50 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: EBH
Telly Hudgins has been stopped and frisked by the police too many times to count......He says he complained about the search and was issued a summons for disorderly conduct

Hmmmmmm. Something doesn't smell right, here.

I'll grant that I don't live in NYC. However, this smells like "All cops hate me. What's wrong with every single one of them?".

And, I'd like to know what he said that got him a "Disorderly Conduct" summons. What cop would prefer all of the associated paperwork to "OK, sir, could you run in and grab an ID for me and we'll put this thing to bed?" or somesuch.

38 posted on 07/03/2012 10:18:48 AM PDT by wbill
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To: Brad from Tennessee

Making it harder for someone like me to own firearms to protect myself and the people I care about does not constitute to me a successful anti-crime program.


39 posted on 07/03/2012 10:19:06 AM PDT by wastedyears ("God? I didn't know he was signed onto the system.")
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To: green iguana

Unreasonable searches and frisks being illegal.


40 posted on 07/03/2012 10:21:12 AM PDT by wastedyears ("God? I didn't know he was signed onto the system.")
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To: green iguana; wideawake
“I’d love a NY cop to try to stop & frisk me on one of my infrequent visits there.”

It doesn’t matter what the law is. A cop can murder you and his word is more credible than most any witnesses.

Cops can do anything they want unless they know a camera is around. And even then, the tape often ends up “lost” or the equipment “broken” during the investigation.

Make sure you have a hidden camera that automatically records to a remote server before you challenge them. You might win the lottery and scare some dirty cops.

Now look at this NYPD dirtbag. He got a slap on the wrist for ruining people’s lives over a quota. Most likely it was a deal to keep him quiet about the corrupt NYPD. The only reason he got caught is the drug lab engraved the drugs with micro lettering. The lab saw the same sample from this cop twice…

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2095772/Cowboy-cop-Jason-Arbeeny-planted-crack-couples-car-seat-escapes-jail.html

41 posted on 07/03/2012 10:24:53 AM PDT by varyouga
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To: thefactor

A frisk is a search. A very limited search, but still a search. Calling it a frisk doesn’t make it any less of a 4th Amendment violation.

I’m willing to help law enforcement, but that only goes so far. Get rude, abusive, or demeaning, or act like the Constitutional is on a roll in your bathroom, and watch my cooperation evaporate.


42 posted on 07/03/2012 10:31:34 AM PDT by LevinFan
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To: wastedyears

“Last I saw, it was a table with two NYPD and two TSA, in view of the token booth.”

That’s what I didn’t know what you meant.

Here’s prevailing law wrt NY directly. Surprisingly, things haven’t progressed very far yet. Note this kid actually had a weapon, but there wasn’t enough reasonable suspicion so the conviction was tossed on appeal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/27/nyregion/appeals-court-calls-a-stop-and-frisk-illegal.html?_r=1

Google “Terry stop” for more info on the legality in general. Terry stops are quick detention for an outer-clothing frisk done when a police officer has reasonable suspicion that you are illegally armed. It’s done for their and other’s safety. In the Terry case, reasonable suspicion came from an anonymous phone call, so the cop should be able to give you something if it’s a legal request.


43 posted on 07/03/2012 10:31:41 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: EBH

Terry vs Ohio....people...this has been through the courts so many times it could be likened to a NY Subway turnstile.

If a policeman sees you committing a crime (even a “minor” one like trespassing) or believes you may be committing that crime, or have just finished committing that crime, that policeman can lawfally stop you.

If that policeman can articulate a legitimate reason to believe you may be concealing a weapon then the officer has a lawful right to pat your outgarments for weapons.

That is a “Terry Stop” or what NY is calling “stop and frisk”.


44 posted on 07/03/2012 11:00:15 AM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig (It is going to be Foot to Ass combat on election day....my foot and a Rat's ass.)
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To: EBH
And here is the other side of stop and frisk
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/mac_donald.htm
45 posted on 07/03/2012 11:08:12 AM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: thefactor
Also, a frisk for weapons does not require consent. People don't know the difference between a frisk and a search.

Unless you're in a place where people forfeit their 4th Amendment rights (airport, courthouse, driving in a car down the street, etc), you have to have reasonable suspicion for the stop itself. The Fourth Amendment prohibits searches AND seizures. Call it a frisk or a search--where is your reasonable suspicion to stop (seize) me?

46 posted on 07/03/2012 11:09:08 AM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: green iguana
FYI: Terry involved a guy casing a jewelry store.


47 posted on 07/03/2012 11:16:59 AM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: wbill
And, I'd like to know what he said that got him a "Disorderly Conduct" summons. What cop would prefer all of the associated paperwork to "OK, sir, could you run in and grab an ID for me and we'll put this thing to bed?" or somesuch.

One who doesn't think he was sufficiently grovelled to.



48 posted on 07/03/2012 11:21:17 AM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
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To: Publius Valerius

I need to stop getting Hiibel and Terry mixed up...


49 posted on 07/03/2012 11:25:05 AM PDT by green iguana
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To: Publius Valerius

There are many factors that can make up reasonable suspicion. To name a few: furtive hand movements, evidence that you are ‘casing’ a location, change of direction upon seeing police, being in a drug-prone location, matching an eyewitness description for a crime recently committed, being pointed out by a witness. There are a lot of factors that when added up in the totality of circumstance could very easily warrant a stop and question. And, if advisable, a quick frisk of outer garments for weapons.


50 posted on 07/03/2012 11:32:36 AM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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