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Important to make clear Obama KNEW this was a tax all along.
6-4-2012 | formerlyfree

Posted on 07/04/2012 8:02:25 AM PDT by formerlyfree

I was in a conversation with some liberal friends who were celebrating the Supreme Court Decision. They were happy that Obama was so smart, a former constitutional law teacher, etc. I commented that I was uncomfortable with the deceitful way that it came about. When they took offense, I mentioned that Obama was smart, a constitutional law teacher, etc, he KNEW all along that this would pass as a tax, and ARGUED that it WAS a tax in front of the Supreme Court. And THAT argument won!

To me, this is his "Read My Lips" moment. He is on tape everywhere denying that he thinks it is a tax, all the while planning to ARGUE in front of the Supreme Court that it was.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: obama; obamacare; supremecourt; tax; vanity

1 posted on 07/04/2012 8:02:35 AM PDT by formerlyfree
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2 posted on 07/04/2012 8:07:57 AM PDT by RedMDer (https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93)
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To: formerlyfree
Important to make clear Obama KNEW this was a tax all along.


If this issue can make the difference between 0bama getting reelected and Romney wining, then we are already guaranteed a second term.

3 posted on 07/04/2012 8:09:59 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: formerlyfree

Romney ought to just admit that Romneycare mandate is a tax ,too. On the state website it’s called a “tax penalty.” I don’t know how he packaged it at the time; there’s no commerce clause in the Massachusetts constitution I’m sure, so Roberts’ ruling is clarifying for him also. But then you get to the real distinction between Obamacare and Romneycare. Liberal states like Massachusetts can claim the “consent of the governed” in implementing it. There is demonstrably no “consent of the governed” for Obamacare.


4 posted on 07/04/2012 8:10:26 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: formerlyfree

How did they respond?? Was anyone convinced??


5 posted on 07/04/2012 8:10:27 AM PDT by MustKnowHistory
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To: formerlyfree
Obama likely doesn't know or care what the difference is. He's just an ideologue.

We have zero chance of holding on to America unless we stop treating politicians like rock stars and celebrities. They are among the least talented people in society.

6 posted on 07/04/2012 8:11:53 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: MustKnowHistory

You’re never going to convince that type, you just want to shut them up.


7 posted on 07/04/2012 8:12:18 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: formerlyfree

Shouldn’t the question be “why do I still hang out with my LIBTARD friends”?


8 posted on 07/04/2012 8:13:29 AM PDT by max americana (Make the world a better place by punching a liberal in the face)
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To: formerlyfree

Oh, great, a noob signs up today and the first thing they do is post a stupid vanity!


9 posted on 07/04/2012 8:13:46 AM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: formerlyfree
I haven't yet understood all the taxes hidden in obabacare. To call the mandate a tax is to twist words until they no longer have meaning.

Twisting words beyond meaning is a way for Roberts to prove he is growing in office.

It also proves that liberalism promotes the rule of whim, not the rule of law.

10 posted on 07/04/2012 8:17:37 AM PDT by stevem
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To: formerlyfree

You say tomayto
I say tomahto

WHO CARES WHAT IT’S CALLED??????????????????

My Gawd! The most egregious power-grab in American history and all people want to do is bicker over semantics. And we wonder why we’re f-ed.


11 posted on 07/04/2012 8:19:34 AM PDT by workerbee (June 28, 2012 -- 9/11 From Within)
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To: formerlyfree

12 posted on 07/04/2012 8:22:22 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (Resurrect the House Committee on Un-American Activities (HUAC)...before there is no America!)
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To: formerlyfree
I don't have any Liberal friends. If they are Liberal, we are not friends. I do not fraternize with the em=nemy.
13 posted on 07/04/2012 8:26:23 AM PDT by sport
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To: max americana

Libtard FRIENDS???? Impossible.


14 posted on 07/04/2012 8:26:32 AM PDT by sanjuanbob (Festina Lente)
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To: formerlyfree

Obama doesn’t know crap about the Constitution, he is an affirmative action poster boy, and that is all. The premise that he is “so smart” is laughable. If it were not laughable we would have access to his school records and especially his LSAT’s. He is the only prez of the Harvard Law Review that never published anything. Obama is simply a corrupt moron who has access to smart people who want to use him to destroy this country.

The ONLY reason the mandate was found Constitutional is because of pressure applied to a very weak willed John Roberts, had that pressure not been applied the mandate, and Obamacare, would now be dead. Your lib friends are morons as well, but that is stating the obvious.


15 posted on 07/04/2012 8:28:23 AM PDT by HerrBlucher ("The cross opens its arms to the four winds; it is a signpost for free travelers." GK Chesterton)
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To: formerlyfree
All I know is my beloved Country is FUBARed and Macguyver is old, fat, wears pull-up pants and doesn't know how to fix his car. I'm so depressed only blowing up a ton of fireworks tonight, is going to help. A little. All I need to hear now, is John Wayne is dead.:(


16 posted on 07/04/2012 8:32:39 AM PDT by Daffynition (Our forefathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: RedMDer
The Democrats sneaked Social Security through by calling it Old Age Insurance. They swore it was not a tax. It was and is a tax.

National health care followed the same pattern. They called it affordable health care. Now the Supreme Court, like it or not, has ruled it a tax (actually one of 20 such legislated Obamacare taxes).

Just like Social Security it will be collected and enforced by IRS.

You do not know it yet, but you will pay by payroll deductions for the health plan your employer enrolls you in AND you will pay the taxes for Obama's commie-care.

Democrats, we told you so!

17 posted on 07/04/2012 8:45:18 AM PDT by Rapscallion (Defy by silence)
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To: RedMDer

You have liberal friends? Man, you must be a forgiving person.


18 posted on 07/04/2012 9:32:04 AM PDT by Terry Mross ( To all my kin: Do not attempt to contact me as long as you love obama.)
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To: formerlyfree

Is Obama accountable to anyone? It seems he has the nerve to do what he pleases and lies whenever he wishes. There are no checks and balances.


19 posted on 07/04/2012 9:38:20 AM PDT by FreedBird
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To: gusopol3
What Romney did here in Massachusetts is perfectly constitutional. It is the Federal Government that acts unconstitutionally when it tries to impose similar things on all the states. This is because every state's circumstances are different and a "one size fits all" approach just doesn't, well..... fit.

It is my understanding that Romney is calling the Romneycare mandate a tax or "tax penalty" which is a synonymous term.

I know from experience that when I go and file my income taxes, I have to provide my tax preparer with proof that I have health insurance in order to avoid having to pay the tax penalty. Apart from that, however, I don't have to do anything else and since I have always had health insurance, my life has not changed significantly on account of Romneycare.

And let me tell you how Romney packaged it.

Unlike Barack Obama, Mitt Romney did not campaign on "Romneycare" when he was running for the office of Governor of Massachusetts. It was after he was duly elected Governor that Mitt Romney was more or less "blackmailed" into signing "Romneycare" into law when the Federal Government threatened to cut $385 million of Medicaid funding if the state of Massachusetts did not reduce the number of uninsured recipients of health care services.

Moreover, if "Romneycare" is not presently the exact piece of legislation Mitt Romney originally signed into law, it needs to be pointed out that Mitt Romney had to deal with a Democrat-controlled state legislature which overrode many of Mitt Romney's anti-"pork" vetoes.

Although he had not campaigned on the idea of universal health insurance, Romney decided, in the wake of the threatened funding cut by the Feds, that because people without insurance still received expensive health care, the money spent by the state for such care could be better used to subsidize insurance for the poor and prevent our state's hospitals - and possibly even the state of Massachusetts - from going bankrupt.

After insisting that any measure adopted not raise taxes ( except for the penalty tax )and not resemble the infamous "Hillarycare" farce of the 1990's, Romney formed a team of consultants from diverse political backgrounds.

On April 12, 2006, the governor signed the resulting Massachusetts health reform law, commonly called "Romneycare", which requires nearly all Massachusetts residents to buy health insurance coverage or face escalating tax penalties, such as the loss of their personal income tax exemption.

To sum up, the essential differences between Romneycare and the Obamatax is this; namely that Romneycare merely sought to get citizens here in Massachusetts insured so that our hospitals wouldn't go bankrupt providing expensive healthcare to uninsured recipients - especially if a threatened Medicaid cut were implemented by the Federal Government.

Romneycare never envisioned a government takeover and control of 1/6 of our state's economy as Obamatax envisions a government takeover and control of 1/6 of our nation's economy.

20 posted on 07/04/2012 11:13:28 AM PDT by Sons of Union Vets (No taxation without representation!)
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To: Sons of Union Vets

Thanks for taking the time to explain. Now i go back to my sound bite, Obamacare =”Taxation with misrepresentation.”


21 posted on 07/04/2012 12:05:50 PM PDT by gusopol3
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To: MustKnowHistory

It actually shut them down for a bit. They realized that he had been deceitful, but didn’t really want to admit it. They promised to research it further and discuss it with me later when they could argue it intelligently.


22 posted on 07/05/2012 8:36:00 PM PDT by formerlyfree
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To: HerrBlucher

Obama bullied John Roberts into changing his answer. That’s another argument I’ve had with my liberal friends. Obama is a bully. They pretend not to like bullies, but they follow the biggest one out there.

And I have been friends with some of these people long before I knew they were liberals. I was actually shocked to learn it, also, because they live their lives in a conservative manner. I don’t consider them to be unintelligent at all. I think that they are busy living their lives and don’t pay close attention. There is so much propaganda put out there from the Democrats and the news media, if you don’t pay attention it’s easy to fall for it.


23 posted on 07/05/2012 8:52:13 PM PDT by formerlyfree
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To: Repeal The 17th

I posted this because I firmly believe that if we focus upon shedding light on the fact that he PURPOSEFULLY deceived us, knowing ALL ALONG that he was going to argue in front of the Supreme Court that this was a tax, while telling us it wasn’t - the American people WILL NOT LIKE IT. Even my liberal friends couldn’t argue this, and it made them uncomfortable.


24 posted on 07/05/2012 9:01:06 PM PDT by formerlyfree
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To: stevem

I agree, but that is not the point. The point is - This was something that Obama PLANNED IN ADVANCE to argue in front of the Supreme Court. At the SAME TIME he was planning to argue this, he was assuring everyone that it was not a tax. This is blatant deceit that ANYONE can see no matter which side of the fence they are on. Obama tell us it’s not a tax, but argues in front of the Supreme Court that it IS a tax.


25 posted on 07/05/2012 9:08:25 PM PDT by formerlyfree
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To: max americana

You guys are so used to fighting with Liberal ideologues that you forget there are millions of rational people out there who don’t pay a lot of attention to politics until the election rolls around. Many of them are “liberal” because they were raised that way, or just naturally fell for all the propaganda from the news media. In real life they live just like everyone else, going to work, paying their taxes, going to church and trying to raise their kids.

These are the people - AND THERE ARE MILLIONS OF THEM - who will NOT LIKE the fact that this was all planned in advance by Obama - telling us one thing, while all the while HE KNEW he was planning to tell the Supreme Court just the opposite. This is a blatant TRANSPARENT deception. I have some very religious “liberal” friends from church. Satan is the great deceiver. HOW can they be pleased that he got this plan all the way through the supreme court on nothing but EASY TO POINT OUT lies and deceptions.


26 posted on 07/06/2012 5:37:56 AM PDT by formerlyfree
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To: Repeal The 17th

And please explain to me why you consider this post a “Vanity”? It was intended to be a strategy. If you can explain it why it is “Vanity”, I will apologize, but it seems to me that *your* comment seems to be the vain one here.


27 posted on 07/06/2012 5:38:05 AM PDT by formerlyfree
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To: Hotlanta Mike

Thank you. This is it exactly. G.H.W. Bush was brought down by this very thing. People do not like deliberate deception IF they know about it. Bush 41 was deceived into breaking his campaign promise - Obama wasn’t. He knew all along that people earning under $250K were going to be taxed and taxed and taxed. Since he is a Democrat, the news people will not make the people aware of it like they did when they were hammering 41 about it. It is up to us.


28 posted on 07/06/2012 5:42:13 AM PDT by formerlyfree
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To: formerlyfree

People are getting lost in the debate over semantics. The fact is Obamacare contains approx. 21 taxes, 7 of which impact directly the middle class. Obama promised NO TAXES OF ANY KIND on the middle class. Now you have 7 related to one statute that requires the hiring of additional IRS agents to enforce and reportedly 13,000 pages of new regulations.

And the fact that this does nothing to address the cost of healthcare, and certainly will impact the quality and accessibility (yes, death panels do exist) for aging people.

It is no less fitting that this monstrosity is put upon a free people by facists within our government. They should be held to account in November by the voters, less we suffer the consequences of more abuse by these tyrants.


29 posted on 07/06/2012 5:52:48 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (Resurrect the House Committee on Un-American Activities (HUAC)...before there is no America!)
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To: workerbee

That’s not the point. People don’t like to be blatantly lied to. That’s the point. What it is called is immaterial. He is a deceiver. GHW Bush went down for lying about “No new taxes”. If people know about his blatant deceptions, they will not like it. The liberal people I know may not vote for Romney, but they may vote for the Green candidate instead, or not vote at all. They need to know that their candidate is a liar.


30 posted on 07/06/2012 9:16:04 AM PDT by formerlyfree
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To: formerlyfree

Please keep us posted on their reality trip!


31 posted on 07/06/2012 1:59:25 PM PDT by MustKnowHistory
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To: formerlyfree

Megan Kelly seems to agree, except it is more despicable than flip-flopping or hypocrisy - it is outright pre-planned deceit.

http://townhall.com/video/megyn-kelly-tackles-obama-flip-flopping


32 posted on 07/07/2012 10:04:00 AM PDT by formerlyfree
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