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Romney(Care) Complicates GOP Push To Label ‘Obamacare’ A Tax (Huge Tax Increase in Massachusetts?)
TPM ^ | July 1, 2012 | Sahil Kapur

Posted on 07/06/2012 5:22:25 AM PDT by xzins

Republicans are seizing on the Supreme Court’s decision to uphold ‘Obamacare’ under Congress’s taxing power to accuse Democrats of raising taxes on the middle class. But they’re finding it difficult to square that with the fact that their presidential nominee enacted the same concept as governor of Massachusetts.

Although Mitt Romney has vowed to repeal ‘Obamacare’, his 2006 law includes the same core elements, including the mandate to purchase insurance or pay a fine. In 2009, Romney wrote in a USA Today op-ed that he used “tax penalties” to achieve the objective of broadening coverage.

On Fox News Sunday, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) attacked President Obama for sneaking a tax increase past the American public.

“The Supreme Court has now declared it a tax. They have unearthed the massive deception that was practiced by the president and the Democrats, constantly denying that it was a tax,” McConnell said. “The chief justice has made it clear — it’s a tax.”

But the GOP leader dodged several questions on whether ‘Romneycare’ is also a tax increase.

“Well I think Governor Romney will have to speak for himself about what was done in Massachusetts,” McConnell said. “I can tell you that every single Democratic senator voted for this tax increase.”

On CBS’ Face The Nation, House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) also ducked questions about whether Romney has a credibility problem because of his mandate.

“This is an issue that was in Massachusetts — that’s one state,” he said. “That’s why we have 50 different states. They’re laboratories of democracy. Governor Romney understands that Obamacare will bankrupt our country and ruin the best health care delivery system in the world. … This is far more than any state has ever comprehended or tried to do.”

The Congressional Budget Office projects that the tax penalty will hit 4 million people in 2016, or just over 1 percent of the population.

White House chief of staff Jack Lew, also appearing on Fox News Sunday, repeatedly denied that the penalty for noncompliance with the individual mandate is a tax hike, even though it’s enforced via the tax code and was upheld on Congress’s taxing powers.

“It was set up and it was not called a tax,” he said. “But there are powers that Congress has and you can justify a law in multiple ways.” Obama’s top aide added that “When he was governor of Massachusetts, Governor Romney put a plan in place that has many of the features that the Affordable Care Act makes available on a national basis.”

Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) called the mandate “a penalty on free-riders.”

“Mitt Romney is in a total pickle here. He prescribed this. This was his bill,” Schumer said on CBS’ Face The Nation. “Are [Republicans] going to say that Mitt Romney had the biggest tax increase in Massachusetts? Forget about it.”

Romney, for his part, responded to the Supreme Court ruling by saying, “If we want to get rid of Obamacare, we’re going to have to replace President Obama.”


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: elections; obamacare; romneycare; romneytruthfile
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1 posted on 07/06/2012 5:22:38 AM PDT by xzins
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To: P-Marlowe; All

Santorum was right. With Romney as nominee they gave away the biggest issue — ObamaCare — because Dems will simply say, “You did the same.”

And they’ll be right.


2 posted on 07/06/2012 5:24:27 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

There is one big difference. The States can do this. The Feds cannot IAW the Constitution. At least the way the average grade school student interprets the Constitution.


3 posted on 07/06/2012 5:27:39 AM PDT by mosaicwolf (Strength and Honor)
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To: xzins

“You did the same.”

Not so the entire country didn’t have to pay for Romney plan.


4 posted on 07/06/2012 5:27:53 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: xzins
Santorum was right. With Romney as nominee they gave away the biggest issue

That's exactly what Michelle Malkin said yesterday.
5 posted on 07/06/2012 5:30:33 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: xzins

It’s going to take Roberts-like double speak to pull that off.
If I were him I would just go on offense and say national socialized medicine is toxic for our health and our economy, and leave it at that.
Then I’d let the rest of the GOP and PACs do the hard hitting.
The only it distinction between the two is that Romney (even if only for his own gain) will likely help undo bozocare.
I guess that will have to be good enough for me this year for him to get my vote.
Also as a side note. If we pick up “control” of the senate he damn well better give us a legit conservative should a spot on SCOTUS open up.


6 posted on 07/06/2012 5:33:15 AM PDT by Clump ( the tree of liberty is withering like a stricken fig tree)
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To: mosaicwolf
There is one big difference. The States can do this.

Well aside from the fact that it took nearly $400 million federal dollars just to get stated. I guarantee its still taking taxpayer dollars from outside the state.
7 posted on 07/06/2012 5:33:20 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: mosaicwolf
Allow me to disagree. No way I think it's constitutional for a state to punitively tax me for something I'm NOT doing.

That is massive, intrusive government.

Why not impose a huge tax on me for not eating broccoli? There are a bunch of folks who think the states can do anything they want, but they can't.

It's good to remember that non-federal powers were left to the states AND to the people.

My purchase and enjoyment of broccoli is entirely up to me. Get the damn government at any level out of my life.

8 posted on 07/06/2012 5:33:52 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

The plans are not the same. Romneycare is only 70 pages long and Obamacare has 2,700 pages.

In Massachusetts only 1.2% of the taxpayers have to pay the penalty:

http://bluecrossmafoundation.org/Health-Reform/~/media/D0DDA3D667BE49D58539821F74C723C7.pdf


9 posted on 07/06/2012 5:37:42 AM PDT by BarnacleCenturion
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To: Vaduz
Not so the entire country didn’t have to pay for Romney plan.

Are you saying that Romney was not governor of the entire United States? Well, who could argue with that.

So maybe what they're saying is that Romney did the same thing in the kingdom of Massachusetts, so who is he to say anything about anyone else.

10 posted on 07/06/2012 5:37:42 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: BarnacleCenturion; P-Marlowe; cripplecreek; cva66snipe; Elvina; Finny; greyfoxx39; Hilda; ...

Santorum was right. People aren’t going to wade into Romney’s 70 pages of law; all they’re going to do is see that they’re the same.

If Romney feels like explaining the huge, apparent differences, then let him do it in 30 second soundbites on commercials and interviews.

He tried this past week and miserably failed.


11 posted on 07/06/2012 5:41:18 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: cripplecreek

Malkin has been very tough on Romney. I’m glad to see it. She is not a GOP toadie. When they screw up she calls it like she sees it.

Romney could very well blow this race. He gave away one of the largest issues this past week.

I think jobs is the biggest issue, and ObamaNomics is continuing to kill jobs, so Romney could pull it out of the fire. He always seems so unsure of himself, though. Just doesn’t inspire confidence at all.

If he’s not ahead after the Democrat Convention in early September, then he’ll lose.


12 posted on 07/06/2012 5:48:38 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; NFHale; Impy; LMAO; ...

Republicans have screwed up the debate on this issue (the persobnl mandate) so bad that they might as well just drop the whole subject and move on. Romney certainly cant argue the case against it.

Does Obama-care kill jobs?
Does Obama-care increase the deficit?
Does Obama-care make the currently insured, including those on medicare, worse off?
Does Obama-care raise middle class taxes ? (for those that comply with it)?

OK, now why is Romney-care better than Obama-care? Romney better come up with answers. He wanted this nomination more than anything.


13 posted on 07/06/2012 5:49:12 AM PDT by sickoflibs (ABBBO chant: "We must support Romney because he doesn't matter." (Obam-ney Care is bad now ))
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To: xzins

Keep it simple:

OBAMACARE IS A TAX.

I WILL REPEAL OBAMACARE WHEN I’M ELECTED.

And let let the libs rant and rave about Massachusetts all they want to. I could care less.


14 posted on 07/06/2012 5:50:20 AM PDT by InterceptPoint (TIN)
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To: xzins
You say Toe-May-Toe, I say Toe-Mah-Toe.

A "Tax" or "Penalty" it's a matter of semantics and that is NOT what should be argued as that simply plays into the hands of Dear Leader and the Demo-Rats.

All Mittens (and the Republi-Tards) have to say (and emphasize) is that the "Ruling" was wrong and based upon a faulty (non-existent and "divined" from whole cloth) premise, thus it should be repealed.

15 posted on 07/06/2012 5:51:30 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet
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To: Clump
If I were him I would just go on offense and say national socialized medicine is toxic for our health and our economy, and leave it at that.

And then follow-up that it is a state issue.

16 posted on 07/06/2012 5:53:15 AM PDT by EBH (Obama took away your American Dreams and replaced them with "Dreams from My (his) Father".)
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To: InterceptPoint

You and I both know they won’t allow that in the debates. I’ll bet it gets asked at least twice in each debate:

“Mr Romney, since your RomneyCare also had penalty taxes in place, would you say that was also a huge tax increase on the citizens of Massachusetts?”

It’s gonna happen. He better be getting his answer together.


17 posted on 07/06/2012 5:53:43 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
Actually I am thinking he would be better served by saying it is a state's issue and thereby would be decollectivizing, decentralizing, and returning or implying the return of Health Care to the individual states.

I think that might be a much more palatable message.

18 posted on 07/06/2012 5:56:48 AM PDT by EBH (Obama took away your American Dreams and replaced them with "Dreams from My (his) Father".)
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To: xzins

PS. Then he could say that RomneyCare addresses the matter at the state level and ‘locally’ etc.


19 posted on 07/06/2012 5:58:36 AM PDT by EBH (Obama took away your American Dreams and replaced them with "Dreams from My (his) Father".)
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To: xzins

On this Romney cannot be trusted. There is so much at stake and the mistrust so great, that I find my support for Romney dwindling. Likewise amnesty for illegals. You can sense his intentions are deceptive no matter what he says to get elected. His body language is a lie. The stink is becoming overwhelming.


20 posted on 07/06/2012 6:03:09 AM PDT by Rapscallion (Defy by silence)
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To: xzins

It was a State issue

Romney has “evolved”

He can easily make the case it is what MA wanted and it was. IN this case a large majority don’t want it and he has said he will get rid of it if elected.

Would anyone here have a problem if individual States at the behest of the voters passed health care reform?

One of the major points was this is about States rights and the Fed gov has no place in it to begin with.


21 posted on 07/06/2012 6:04:55 AM PDT by scram2
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To: cripplecreek

Willard told Bill O’Reilly that RomneyCare is was working the way it should...

MASS taxpayers paid 50%, the Federal government paid 50%

Wait ...the federal government...taxes...

Oh noez thats US...the rest of the country...

WE ARE PAYING FOR ROMNEYCARE IN MASS


22 posted on 07/06/2012 6:05:32 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: xzins

Take a look at the Romney plan and then tell me it’s the same,it’s not.
Good day


23 posted on 07/06/2012 6:06:20 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: sickoflibs

—OK, now why is Romney-care better than Obama-care? —

Because it only affects one state. People have options - they can move.

Seriously.


24 posted on 07/06/2012 6:07:43 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: xzins
Glad to see that you are perpetuating the talking-points for the LEFT:


Sahil Kapur is a congressional reporter for TPM. He previously covered politics and public policy for numerous publications including The Guardian and The Huffington Post.

25 posted on 07/06/2012 6:12:45 AM PDT by LibFreeUSA
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To: xzins

“No way I think it’s constitutional for a state to punitively tax me for something I’m NOT doing.”

Do you think it is constitutional for the federal government to punitively tax you for something you ARE doing?


26 posted on 07/06/2012 6:13:52 AM PDT by ngat
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: xzins

Oh no. You mean we sele,ted a nominee that supports soccialized medicine? Why on earth would we do that?


28 posted on 07/06/2012 6:20:07 AM PDT by jjw
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To: xzins
Big difference.

With Romneycare, it's a tax the people of Mass. imposed on themselves.

With Obamacare it's a tax Mass. wants to impose on everyone else.

The states have a right to do this if they want to, but it's their cost.

Those states do not have a right to force other states to help cover their cost.

29 posted on 07/06/2012 6:20:16 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: cuban leaf
RE :”—OK, now why is Romney-care better than Obama-care? —
.....
Because it only affects one state. People have options - they can move. Seriously.

That might fly if Romney could argue that Romney-care sucks (which it does) so it is good that it was limited to one state. But he can't argue that, nor has he tried. He has no choice now but to defend it or get creamed.

If he argues it sucks now that causes him problems too..

Romney is no limited federal power state guy. He has never argued that for any issue except this one he is trapped in so almost no one will follow his logic, if you can call it that. He has already been on record suggesting that the Federal government impose parts of Romney-care

He is in a trap of his own making.

30 posted on 07/06/2012 6:20:20 AM PDT by sickoflibs (ABBBO chant: "We must support Romney because he doesn't matter." (Obam-ney Care is bad now ))
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To: sickoflibs

Hey, you’re preaching to the choir here. I’m just trying to make lemonade out of the lemmon. I said, back before Cain dropped out, that the worst nominee would be Romney because Obamacare was obama’s Achilles heel and it is based on Romneycare, effectively making him the worst possible choice.

But, here we are. ;-)

Meanwhile, Romneycare is different from Obamacare in many ways, and one of the biggest ways it is different is that it affects only one state. This forces the state to take into account that people CAN flee the state if it is impacting them negatively. This keeps the state from going crazy with what they offer and tax.

At the federal level, there is no “competition from other states” and therefore there are no checks and balances, as the SCOTUS just proved.

All that being said, if I thought who wins in November really mattered all that much, I’d be really depressed.


31 posted on 07/06/2012 6:28:04 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: LibFreeUSA

When someting is true, all side will use it to their best advantage.
Except of course for idiots.
Idiots, in fact, are often too stupid to see things coming. And the biggest idiots lash out at people who try to plan counters for the obvious.


32 posted on 07/06/2012 6:32:23 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: cuban leaf
RE :”I’m just trying to make lemonade out of the lemmon

Reminds me of how prisons stopped giving prisoners fresh fruit because they were stowing it to put in plastic bags to ferment drinking alcohol Yuk! That lemonade is nasty.

Romney has to make a case himself and it cant be the argument you keep giving, that Romney-care is limited to MA so it is better than Obama-care. Newt could make that case, as could Perry or Bachmann, but it is not effective coming from Romney.

'Why is Romney-care bad for other states? Is is good for MA? Are you sorry you passed it? Why did you recommend it for the federal government if you think it is only better because it was limited one state? ' He cant answer these questions.

He is losing an unlosable election.

33 posted on 07/06/2012 6:42:58 AM PDT by sickoflibs (ABBBO chant: "We must support Romney because he doesn't matter." (Obam-ney Care is bad now ))
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To: xzins

The dems are getting away with claiming that obamacare was 100% patterned after the bill Romney put in place in MA. To my understanding, only ONE aspect of it is the same - the mandate; the penalty. Did Romney also put into place all the taxes that are in obamacare?

Did he increase state payroll taxes?
Did he increase the state rate of tax on capital gains? Did he claim a % of profits on the sale of a home over a certain amount?
Did he increase the state tax rate for charitable hospitals?
Did he tax tanning salon patrons?
Did he require health insurance premiums provided by employers to be reported as earnings requiring an employee to pay taxes on the benefit?
Did he attach a tax to capital gains at a state rate?

That list is far from complete but it should be at least the starting point to dispel the “obamacare is the same as romneycare” argument...and congressional members and TV reporters should be shoving it back in liberal faces. I’m tired of what they are allowing them to get away with.

As in an earlier thread this morning where Valerie Jarrett was quoted as saying, “You’ve all heard the president say blah blah blah” - as tho’ the man has never and will never speak an untruth! Doesn’t anyone get it? They LIE!

Sorry for the rant but the days are becoming more and more difficult to get through with this baloney going on!


34 posted on 07/06/2012 6:44:15 AM PDT by Thank You Rush
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To: cuban leaf
Meanwhile, Romneycare is different from Obamacare in many ways, and one of the biggest ways it is different is that it affects only one state. This forces the state to take into account that people CAN flee the state if it is impacting them negatively. This keeps the state from going crazy with what they offer and tax.

This.

And people ARE fleeing the Commonwealth, though if I had to venture a guess why, RomneyCare has little to do with it. The main reasons people are leaving the Commonwealth include: (1) high cost of living, (2) sketchy economic prospects, (3) high cost of doing business, (4) climate, (5) Massholes, (6 - 10) Massholes.

RomneyCare blows, and I'm no fan of the Mittster, even though I did vote for him for governor and for Senator. RomneyCare punches you in the gut when you switch jobs, and for whatever reason, find yourself having to purchase health care on the open market. For example, I left a job, and before I could get on my new job's health care plan, I had to wait out a certain period of time before I could qualify for open enrollment in my new company's plan. Until that time, I had to purchase my own policy on the open market . . . $1,500 clams for a family of four. In the old days, I could've rolled the dice, but under RomneyCare, I would get whacked on my taxes for not having coverage.

So basically, I had to fork over $3,000 to some insurance company for two months in exchange for exactly zero goods or services in return, since neither me nor my family needed health care services during this time. And that effing sucks: some insurance company made 100% profit on my back, all because of some goddamn law that forces me to buy health insurance or else pay a fine. And it's not like I'm going to be able to take advantage of that $3K expenditure some day, as that was insurance company X, and now my policy is with insurance company Y.

People don't realize that the first step towards "solving" this health care issue is decoupling health care service delivery from the insurance paradigm. Until we get that part straight, there will be no reform, ever.

35 posted on 07/06/2012 6:52:13 AM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: sickoflibs
He is in a trap of his own making.

And you just know that congress is going to drop the issue to protect Romney and it will cost us there too.
36 posted on 07/06/2012 6:52:49 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: IMR 4350

I don’t think states have any more authority to penalize you for what you’re NOT doing than does the national government.

Call me crazy, but I think that’s massive, intrusive, abusive government. There’s nothing in our constitution that says states are allowed to abuse our basic rights.


37 posted on 07/06/2012 7:00:14 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

The difference is, you don’t have to live in that state, you can move to a state that doesn’t force you to pay.

When the feds do it, there is nowhere to go.


38 posted on 07/06/2012 7:08:49 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: ngat

That’s what excise taxes are, iirc, especially on such things as alcohol and tobacco, in which case their even referred to as “sin taxes”. The Constitution grants Congress the authority to impose excise taxes.


39 posted on 07/06/2012 7:11:07 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: ngat

That’s what excise taxes are, iirc, especially on such things as alcohol and tobacco, in which case THEY’RE even referred to as “sin taxes”. The Constitution grants Congress the authority to impose excise taxes.


40 posted on 07/06/2012 7:11:42 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: LibFreeUSA

So RomneyCare being a pain in the butt for Romney is this author’s fault?

I suppose Rick Santorum was on the author’s payroll when Santorum was saying exactly this same thing?


41 posted on 07/06/2012 7:13:59 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: cripplecreek

wow, Romney loves to take federal tax payers money.
$400 mill here, and $600 mil to save the Olympics single handily.


42 posted on 07/06/2012 7:15:30 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: IMR 4350

So, does that mean you’re OK with states abusing your rights?

I don’t think so.

We conservatives fight abuses to our rights wherever we see them.


43 posted on 07/06/2012 7:16:28 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Thank You Rush

So, why didn’t Romney defend himself with all that stuff last week?

Simple answer: It’s way too complicated to get into a 30 second commercial or a 5 second soundbite.

Santorum was right. RomneyCare has ruined Republican’s chances to hit ObamaCare with anywhere near the force they could if someone other than Romney were the nominee.

Romney might well pull this out due to the terrible jobs market, but it’s sad that the republicans have lost the ObamaCare issue.


44 posted on 07/06/2012 7:21:00 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins; All

PROBLEM: “ - - - But they’re finding it difficult to square that with the fact that their presidential nominee enacted the same concept as governor of Massachusetts.”

SOLUTION: DUMP Romney in Tampa with an ABSTAIN delegate vote on the First Ballot.


45 posted on 07/06/2012 7:25:57 AM PDT by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: xzins
No, and that's why I would never live in a state run by a bunch of left wing nuts.

That's my choice just like it's everyone else choice.

If a state wants to try and create a Utopia with a bunch of deadbeats living off the state, go for it. When it fails, which it will, don't go running to the other states to cover their ass.

They created the problem, they can fix it.

46 posted on 07/06/2012 7:32:02 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: xzins
No, and that's why I would never live in a state run by a bunch of left wing nuts.

That's my choice just like it's everyone else choice.

If a state wants to try and create a Utopia with a bunch of deadbeats living off the state, go for it. When it fails, which it will, don't go running to the other states to cover their ass.

They created the problem, they can fix it.

47 posted on 07/06/2012 7:32:02 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: xzins

GET OVER IT! The time for that debate was in the primaries! My candidate lost. We have ONE CANDIDATE NOW, and it’s NOT OBAMA!

“ROMNEY CARE” is OVER! It’s HISTORY. The point was made in the primaries, and YOU (and others) continue to beat that DEAD HORSE and does no good to our side.

OUR FOCUS SHOULD BE ON “REPEAL OBAMACARE” - not harping back and continue debating the primary!


48 posted on 07/06/2012 7:35:44 AM PDT by LibFreeUSA
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To: Graewoulf

Amen, Graewoulf. Dump Romney and Add a real conservative.

It won’t happen, though. The GOP-E loves Romney more than they love winning.


49 posted on 07/06/2012 7:47:36 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: IMR 4350
If a state wants to try and create a Utopia with a bunch of deadbeats living off the state, go for it

While I agree with the rest of your post, IMR, I just don't buy this part. NO state has the authority to deny our rights under the Constitution. States Rights does not mean the right to violate our rights.

50 posted on 07/06/2012 7:49:53 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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