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Obama: Americans are ‘penalized’ by ‘so-called individual mandate,’ not taxed
Washington Examiner ^ | 7/6/2012 | Joel Gehrke

Posted on 07/06/2012 2:19:49 PM PDT by markomalley

President Obama, confronted with the issue of the Supreme Court upholding his health care law by declaring the individual mandate a tax, contradicted the court by saying that the individual mandate “penalize[s]” Americans rather than taxes them.

“You have to take responsibility, and if you don’t, you’re going to be penalized for it, and that’s the right thing to do,” Obama told WDTN-NBC while defending the individual mandate. He also denied that the court’s ruling means that he has raised taxes through Obamacare. “I have consistently kept my promise not to raise taxes on people [making] under $250,000 a year.”

Obama effectively contradicted Chief Justice John Roberts. “[T]he shared responsibility mandate may for constitutional purposes be considered a tax, not a penalty,” Roberts wrote in the majority opinion, before concluding, “It is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance.”

The president argued that “it’s estimated that less than one percent of the people throughout the United States will be impacted by this so-called individual mandate.” Obama explained that “whether you call it a tax, a penalty, a mandate — whatever you call it, what it is, is, if you can afford to buy health insurance don’t dump those costs on someone else. You have to take responsibility, and if you don’t, you’re going to be penalized for it, and that’s the right thing to do.”

By saying that the individual mandate is necessary because failure to get health insurance harms society, the president made the basic Commerce Clause argument that Chief Justice John Roberts ruled unconstitutional. “People, for reasons of their own, often fail to do things that would be good for them or good for society,” Roberts wrote. “Under the Government’s logic, that authorizes Congress to use its commerce power to compel citizens to act as the Government would have them act. That is not the country the Framers of our Constitution envisioned.”


TOPICS: Extended News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 0carenightmare; individualmandate; mandate; obamacare

1 posted on 07/06/2012 2:19:56 PM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

OK so stop penalizing Americans who just want to be left alone. Whether it’s a penalty or a tax, it still sucks.


2 posted on 07/06/2012 2:21:47 PM PDT by ari-freedom
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To: markomalley

“Liar Liar Pants On Fire”


3 posted on 07/06/2012 2:23:49 PM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: markomalley
The president argued that “it’s estimated that less than one percent of the people throughout the United States will be impacted by this so-called individual mandate.”

And the income tax rate will never exceed 2 percent.

4 posted on 07/06/2012 2:24:07 PM PDT by FoxInSocks ("Hope is not a course of action." -- M. O'Neal, USMC)
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To: markomalley

Penalty or tax, I guess it is what ever works best with politics.


5 posted on 07/06/2012 2:24:13 PM PDT by jesseam (eliev)
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To: markomalley

So now we’re having a word war using a thesaurus, as though a re-naming of a coercive government action makes it less oppressive.

Our daughter used to play that game. We would correct her for hitting her sister. She said, I didn’t hit her; I slapped her.


6 posted on 07/06/2012 2:26:35 PM PDT by lurk
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To: markomalley

Not very original on the part of America’s Chief Executive; Stalin, Hitler, and Mao all said - and certainly believed - exactly the same thing.


7 posted on 07/06/2012 2:27:07 PM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: markomalley

When is someone going to realize that the people getting screwed the most are the young people who wouldn’t buy health insurance if they didn’t have to.

That is who the biggest part of this tax increase falls on.

How many young workers won’t start new businesses because their health insurance costs were the difference between deciding to take a chance or play it safe?


8 posted on 07/06/2012 2:30:55 PM PDT by Helotes
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To: markomalley

When is someone going to realize that the people getting screwed the most are the young people who wouldn’t buy health insurance if they didn’t have to.

That is who the biggest part of this tax increase falls on.

How many young workers won’t start new businesses because their health insurance costs were the difference between deciding to take a chance or play it safe?


9 posted on 07/06/2012 2:31:20 PM PDT by Helotes
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To: markomalley
Joe’s Healthcare:

The recent healthcare decision affects us all in different ways. But, let’s consider a very real person named Joe. Now, Joe is a nice fellow who lost his job during this recession and now works two jobs rather than rely on welfare. Joe is also a heart patient, and he does have limited but affordable catastrophic insurance. He hears on television that Obamacare will require him to buy a comprehensive policy that costs almost three times what he is paying now, and that his much less expensive catastrophic insurance will be outlawed. Everyone must be the same. Joe works hard at his two jobs, and his salary is just enough to pay his mortgage, put food on the table, and purchase gas for his car, but it is too high for him to qualify for government subsidies under Obamacare. He cannot afford this new insurance, but Joe hears Democrats on television telling him that he is “selfish” and a “free-rider” if he does not buy insurance because clearly, in their arrogant presumption, “he can afford it.” He must pay a tax-penalty, one that will rise from 1% of his income to 2.5% over three years. Joe sees that these Democrats have no idea how hard he has worked all his life to have a home, how much his mortgage payment is, and know nothing about anything else in his life. They just blindly assume that he can afford their expensive new insurance, a form of insurance that covers Joe for pregnancy, birth-control pills, and pediatric services, none of which he will ever need. And, the cheapest of these more expensive plans offered to him will cover only 60% of costs, anyway. Joe reads that Obamacare imposes a big tax on medical device companies, who are laying off people. Joe’s retirement plan contains stock in two of those companies, stock now losing value. Then Joe hears that even if he were to buy this new insurance, he will not be able to deduct it as medical expense on his tax return, as he usually does, because under Obamacare the income threshold for medical deductions will be raised from 7.5% to 10%, a very difficult level to reach. This will cost Joe about $2,500 on top of the $1,500 tax-penalty he will have to pay if he does not buy insurance. Joe then learns that some woman named Kathleen Sibelius has added an abortion-services surcharge to every month’s premium in all but the most limited of plans offered to him. Joe is a pro-life Catholic. And he doesn’t think he should have to read the fine print just because he is Catholic. In the end, it seems, this new insurance will require him to sell his home and, if he is not careful, to violate his conscience. Joe does not buy this expensive new insurance and lives without any health insurance at all, having lost the affordable catastrophic insurance he once had. Joe decides to vote Republican.

10 posted on 07/06/2012 2:32:00 PM PDT by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: lurk

You pretty much nailed it. The left wants nothing more than to draw us into a war over terminology and semantic hair splitting.


11 posted on 07/06/2012 2:32:54 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: markomalley

If the IRS collects it, it’s a tax.


12 posted on 07/06/2012 2:33:02 PM PDT by goldi
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To: markomalley

How can it be the right thing to do to penalise me for anything?
In essence they are penalising me for existing.

I exist, I don’t want health insurance ,so they penalise me.

I exist, I don’t want to buy a Volt, They penalise me?

I exist I don’t want to vote democrat they penalise me?

What gives the Government the right to penalise me.
That right does not exist anywhere but in the minds of Obamacare enforcement Officers posing as IRS agents.


13 posted on 07/06/2012 2:35:37 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: markomalley

I can’t believe they still haven’t started referring to it as a tax deduction/credit for having health insurance.


14 posted on 07/06/2012 2:36:22 PM PDT by Darth Reardon (No offense to drunken sailors)
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To: markomalley
"You have to take responsibility, and if you don’t, you’re going to be penalized for it, and that’s the right thing to do.”

"So eat your peas, little peons!! 'Cause if you don't, you'll be penalized."

By saying that the individual mandate is necessary because failure to get health insurance harms society

Makes me think of the Borg Collective. Forget the Borg Queen. We have the Borg King.

"You will be assimilated into Obamacare or you'll be penalized."

Anyone good with photoshop who could maybe make a pic of Obama as the Borg King?

15 posted on 07/06/2012 2:36:41 PM PDT by Luna (Evil will not triumph. God is at the helm.)
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To: FoxInSocks
BTW, that Republican party promise is sure out of line these days ~ currently we tax the top 53%! and some who imagine themselves to be Conservatives (like sean hannity) want to levy additional taxes on the bottom 47%.

I can see hannity and his running dog lackeys out there 10 years from now demanding that the Individual Mandate be raised to "total net worth' on non payers, and they'd be saying "they need some skin in the game ~ take all their stuff".

16 posted on 07/06/2012 2:37:55 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: markomalley
Penalized by who?

The Supreme Court just said Congress does not have the authority to impose a penalty. They can only impose a tax.

If it's a penalty, then then Congress doesn't have any authority to impose it, and the IRS none to collect it.

17 posted on 07/06/2012 2:38:44 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Helotes

It’s not just the young people getting screwed, it’s all of us. I’m over 65, opted not to get Medicare but have a private insurance plan. It’s inexpensive, has a high deductible and I have it to cover any possible hospitalization. The rest of my medical needs I can cover out of my pocket.

But my insurance carrier can’t sell me that policy any more because although it is what I want, it doesn’t agree with what the government says I need. I already had one set of parents I don’t want or need the government trying to fill that role, particularly when it’s my money we are talking about.


18 posted on 07/06/2012 2:43:09 PM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: Luna


19 posted on 07/06/2012 2:43:59 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: markomalley

What level of benefits does one receive if they go the penalty route instead of buying one of the insurance plans? Does anyone know the answer to this... I can’t seem to find anything that addresses that.


20 posted on 07/06/2012 2:45:47 PM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: Luna

“You have to take responsibility, and if you don’t, you’re going to be penalized for it, and that’s the right thing to do.”

Responsibility...big word...how is it a responsibility? Because the obama admin says so! Health insurance or better yet health care is a just another product we are able to choose. By “mandating” that one has to buy a health ins policy or get penalized (an action normally determined in a court of law), and being assessed a fine through the IRS, this is a tax. Yet this is only a tax on someone who is being discriminated against by “NOT” being considered an exempted group. Exempted group...no health insurance requirement, no fine/penalty/mandate.


21 posted on 07/06/2012 2:49:20 PM PDT by Fully Awake DAV (Navy Vet when homosexuality was not tolerated)
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To: Darth Reardon
I can’t believe they still haven’t started referring to it as a tax deduction/credit for having health insurance.

"Tax" is a dirty word to employ while trolling for votes.

22 posted on 07/06/2012 2:50:10 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: markomalley
This is the point where you really learn how progressives think. They actually hate the poor. This is a perfect case in point. They are seeking to penalize the poor for being poor. It is debtors prison for the poor, since they are sending the IRS after the poor.

Spent a few years working in Hollywood with some rather intelligent leftist. There were some Libertarians, but mostly lefties. Ended up discussing auto regulations with a hard core 60's leftist. He was telling me how great it was that safety was being increased by regulations. I asked him about the poor and lower middle class. How could they ever afford to buy a new car, since the regulations have driven the price of automobiles so high. He flat out stated, who cares about the poor. That from a hard core progressive.

23 posted on 07/06/2012 2:52:00 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: TurboZamboni
LOL!!!!!!

Brilliant! That is awesome. Thanks! That's a keeper.

24 posted on 07/06/2012 2:52:20 PM PDT by Luna (Evil will not triumph. God is at the helm.)
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To: justa-hairyape

The last I saw about Bummercare, the indigent were to be excused from the penalty and would continue to be covered under medical welfare plans. However, what a way to encourage the nonworking to begin working again. (NOT)


25 posted on 07/06/2012 2:55:44 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew)
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To: Cementjungle
Does anyone know the answer to this... I can’t seem to find anything that addresses that.

They get the same thing they get now, if they are lucky. Show up at an emergency center and wait. The hospital used to get a write off for treating them. Although now the uninsured will have an extra negative stigma associated with being poor. And the hospitals may not need the write offs, since they will be bleeding their bottom lines treating stubbed toes and nose bleeds.

Wont affect me none since I would not go into a modern hospital if my life depended on it.

26 posted on 07/06/2012 2:58:04 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: markomalley

Obamacare is an affront to LIBERTY because it seeks to “save” people from the consequences of their OWN actions — like smoking, drinking, eating crappy food, etc. The essential element of liberty is that you TAKE YOUR OWN CHANCES and reap the benefits/consequences of that. Bad genetics?

Well, then, you should PLAN for that by getting at least a major medical plan and taking care of yourself. If you expect me to foot the bill for YOUR health then neither of us are free! I for one would RATHER DIE FREE than accept Obamacare!

We have too many programs like this already. Food stamps are an egregious example. They are downright evil. Going hungry — and ultimately facing starvation — has been a prime motivator since we left the Garden of Eden thousands of years ago. That has driven human ingenuity and the development of the work ethic. Take that away and you steal a great deal of dignity from those you “help” and make a SLAVE of yourself! Thanks to food stamps, millions of Americans now have ZERO incentive to work!

Obamacare is intended to complete the process of making ALL Americans into zoo animals dependent on our keepers! I WILL NOT SUBMIT!


27 posted on 07/06/2012 2:59:11 PM PDT by GodAndCountryFirst
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To: HiTech RedNeck

They cannot afford to pay for health care for all the poor and lower middle class. Our government is over 10 trillion in debt. They will setup conditions and the people who are just above their poverty line and just below the point of being able to afford insurance, wont get anything.


28 posted on 07/06/2012 3:00:13 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: markomalley

So if you’re black and have the media in your pocket, you can have it both ways? I here vow that I will NEVER pay a dime of this tax, no matter what. If enough Americans refuse to pay, what are they going to do, put us all in concentration camps?


29 posted on 07/06/2012 3:01:22 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (In honor of my late father, GunnerySgt/Commo Chief, USMC 1943-65)
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To: markomalley

Instead of arguing about this one point, I wish Republicans would concentrate their arguments on all the other taxes in the stupid law: taxes on medical devices, tanning beds, etc.


30 posted on 07/06/2012 3:03:42 PM PDT by DLfromthedesert
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To: tacticalogic
This will end up back in court at some point. Obama is doing his usual ignoring of laws and rulings. He's presented with a gift decision but he'll continue shoving his foot in his mouth. Keep talking, Barack.
31 posted on 07/06/2012 3:05:02 PM PDT by Major Matt Mason ("Journalism is dead. All news is suspect." - Noamie)
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To: markomalley

One week after the decision and the president is publicly contradicting it. So much for maintaining the credibility of the court I guess.

Nice work, Roberts.


32 posted on 07/06/2012 3:07:41 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

When the IRS sends you the bill for not having insurance, send them a letter they cannot refuse. Tell them you are a Muslim.


33 posted on 07/06/2012 3:08:09 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: markomalley
Obama: Americans are ‘penalized’ by ‘so-called individual mandate,’ not taxed

Mandate...shmandate...

The stae of our economy is the same....


34 posted on 07/06/2012 3:25:03 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Nah...concentration camps would be too expensive.

Since the Infernal Revenue is the “agent of collection” I would expect attachment of wages (including ss benefits) or confiscation of property.

I’m sure they will provide large cardboard boxes for those in non-compliance to live in.


35 posted on 07/06/2012 3:32:12 PM PDT by berdie
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To: markomalley

It’s either a tax or it’s illegal (unconstitutional).

Only the truly stupid are buying The Kenyan’s krap.


36 posted on 07/06/2012 3:48:25 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.)
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To: Darth Reardon

quote “I can’t believe they still haven’t started referring to it as a tax deduction/credit for having health insurance.”

BINGO!

which is exactly what Roberts was basically saying when he called it a tax and upheld it as constitutional.

It’s really no different than the homeowners deduction or the marriage penalty, it’s just about the words.

If you think of the home owners deduction as ... a homeowning mandate, and the marriage penalty as a stay single mandate you will quickly see the logic to Roberts ruling.


37 posted on 07/06/2012 3:49:28 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: FoxInSocks

Jobs, spending, taxes... it matters not. This (fill in the blank) just pulls numbers out of his arse whenever he wants to make a point.

LLS


38 posted on 07/06/2012 5:14:45 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: justa-hairyape

Setting the stage for Democrats once more to keen their song about oh how awful, how unfair (with an even more socialistic solution).

IF it lives. I believe that even Mitt Romney recognizes it as so odious a burden (Massachusetts is one story, the whole USA is another) that he’ll first neuter it with EOs as promised then sign a bill to repeal it containing some kind of vague promise to study the question of how to do something better.


39 posted on 07/06/2012 5:47:44 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew)
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