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On the Precipice Of a New Energy Source?
Journal of Petroleum Technology ^ | July 2012 | Steve Jacobs, COO, and Patrick Leach, CEO, Decision Strategies

Posted on 07/07/2012 7:25:43 AM PDT by Kevmo

Journal of Petroleum Technology — July 2012

Guest Editorial • On the Precipice Of a New Energy Source? Steve Jacobs, COO, and Patrick Leach, CEO, Decision Strategies, and David J. Nagel, CEO, NUCAT Energy

Steve Jacobs is chief operating officer of Decision Strategies and has more than 30 years of experience in the oil and gas industry. His specialty is evaluating market opportunities for new and existing technologies and companies. He earned BS degrees in psychology and education from Oklahoma State University. Jacobs is an energy information ambassador for SPE. He moderates and lectures at numerous events around the world.

Patrick Leach is chief executive officer of Decision Strategies. He is a recognized expert in risk management and decision making in the face of uncertainty, and has published and presented numerous papers on these subjects. He is the author of Why Can't You Just Give Me the Number, an executive's guide to using probabilistic thinking to manage risk and make better decisions. Leach earned a BS degree in geomechanics from the University of Rochester and an MBA degree from the University of Houston.

David J. Nagel is chief executive officer of NUCAT Energy.Previously, he was a member of the senior executive service and leader of the physics division at the US Naval Research Laboratory, where he managed experimental and theoretical research and development efforts. He has also been a research professor in the department of electrical and computer engineering at George Washington University with a focus on low energy nuclear reactions. He received a BS degree in engineering science, an MS degree in physics, and a PhD in materials engineering.

In the late 1850s, the whaling industry was in a veritable boom in the town of Lahaina on the Hawaiian island of Maui. Business was great, and many in the whaling industry believed that increased demand would continue for decades to come. But in 1859, oil was discovered in Titusville, Pennsylvania with a well drilled by Edwin Drake. The rest is history.

That was 150 years ago. A small but increasing number of people around the world believe we are on a similar course, except this time it is the petroleum industry that might be threatened. As with any emerging technology, critical challenges must be overcome and a significant effort lies ahead to convince a world of skeptics that a new source of energy has been discovered and will be important.

The potential new source of energy is low-energy nuclear reactions (LENR). With any discussion of a new technology, caution is advised. The world of LENR is filled with mystery, contradiction, gross speculation, misinformation, slippery timelines, and skepticism that sometimes spill over into outright denial. Healthy skepticism on LENR (or any new technology) is a good thing, but so is an open mind. If LENR is for real—and many well-qualified physicists believe it is—it will not only change the petroleum industry, but also significantly affect almost every aspect of our world. Some call it "the new fire."

In 1989 at the University of Utah, Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann announced they had discovered a cold fusion process that would ultimately result in cheap, limitless energy. The outcome from these cold fusion efforts became widely known and well documented, primarily because other researchers were unable to replicate the results from the initial experiments. Cold fusion was (and is) viewed as impossible by many in the scientific community. Although the research did not cease, it was largely ignored.For the past 20-plus years, a small number of scientists have been diligently working on what could eventually become a hugely disruptive technology.

According to New Energy Times, "LENRs are weak interactions and neutroncapture processes that occur in nanometer-to-micron-scale regions on surfaces in condensed matter at room temperature. Although nuclear, LENRs are not based on fission or any kind of fusion, both of which primarily involve the strong interaction. LENRs produce energetic nuclear reactions and elemental transmutations, but do so without strong prompt radiation or long-lived radioactive waste." ("Strong interaction" and "weak interaction" refer to the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force, which-along with electromagnetic force and gravity-make up the four basic forces in nature.)

The Basic Process

There are several versions of LENR being developed using different reactants and processes. The basic process of LENR is not well understood, but some experts have stated that it works as follows: Nano-sized particles of nickel, pressurized hydrogen, and a catalyst are heated in a small reactor to the point at which weak interactions between the reactants cause transmutation (i.e., some of the nickel is converted to copper). Considerable excess heat is emitted during this process. Once the reaction becomes self-sustaining, the input power can be reduced significantly and excess heat (up to 650°C) is generated in the range of five to 30 times the input energy. This can be used to create steam, which can then be used for heating and/or generating electricity. The reactants are inexpensive and ubiquitous; during operation, the system emits no greenhouse gases; when turned off, there is no radioactivity; and the unit will allegedly generate electricity for a few cents per kilowatt hour. Now that is a disruptive technology.

According to one researcher, the amount of energy released from 1 gram of nickel would be equivalent to about one barrel of oil. Heat (in the form of steam) and electricity will be the main products. In addition to residential usage, plans exist for commercial and industrial heating/electrical systems. An attractive application is the production of clean water, including desalination systems. Eventually, LENR technology could be used in transportation (e.g., vehicles, aircraft, and ships).

No doubt the skeptics—and even some of the open-minded—reading this article are now cringing. But current LENR efforts are not dependent upon the outcome of just one development effort; there are a number of LENR programs under way in Europe and the United States. Universities and government agencies involved include Stanford University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, NASA, and the University of Illinois, and several private companies in Greece, Italy, and the US are also developing LENR technologies. Positive results and improved performance have been reported by the research teams, with at least four companies stating that they are in the early stages of commercial development. A small number of LENR unit manufacturing plants are reportedly being built in Europe and the US, and at least two companies have said they will begin marketing their systems later this year. If this is a hoax, it is a remarkably widespread one, involving organizations of high integrity with no obvious motivation to fool the public and quite a lot to lose in terms of reputation.

But even if a hoax is ruled out, other challenges exist, including accepted scientific explanations of LENR, better refinement of control systems, reliable operations, and a distribution/service infrastructure to maintain LENR units that would presumably be located in every business and neighborhood. There is also the nontrivial issue of full-cycle net energy gain (the LENR process may be energy positive once running, but hydrogen is a key ingredient in LENR; there are no earthly sources of free hydrogen, and it takes energy to separate it from the oxygen atom in water). There will also be regulatory issues and intellectual property challenges that may slow the pace of market penetration in the coming years.However, if this technology is for real, the value proposition for LENR will be incredible.

The best known LENR effort currently under way is by Italian Andrea Rossi and his energy catalyzer. He has developed a LENR system that reportedly is ready for commercialization. Although Rossi has had to change a number of delivery dates for his "E-Cat," he appears to be making progress. He stated in mid-April: "We have already made all the engineering of the production line in the two factories we will set up (one in the US, one in Europe) … I think that it will take from 6 to 12 months after the certifications will be done to start the production."

The Impact

If proven to work, what impact would LENR have on the petroleum industry? It is difficult to say for certain, but it would undoubtedly be significant. The vast preponderance of oil is used for transportation and heating (Fig. 1), which would now be competing with LENR. While there still would be a need for petrochemicals and other applications, collectively these end uses represent less than about 20% of each barrel. Natural gas would not fare much better; its main applications are heating and electricity. If LENR works, the impact on the petroleum industry, power generation, and coal industry would be enormous. Even wind farms and other emerging alternative energy technologies could not compete economically with LENR.

So what can be done to prepare for LENR? First, watch it closely and do not let skepticism blind you. When the Wright Brothers flew their first plane at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, the scientific community reportedly argued for years after the fact over whether a heavier-than-air craft could actually fly. Even the most obvious evidence was not enough to make some people abandon their preconceived notions of what was possible. Drake had to battle similar skepticism when he drilled the first oil well; many people in Pennsylvania called it "Drake's Folly."

It is also important to evaluate the specific impact that LENR would have on an individual company. How well positioned is your company to weather such a disruptive storm, or to capitalize on these potential opportunities? If LENR becomes a reality, you do not want to fly blindly into the side of a mountain. Investigate creative ways for your company to participate in the LENR market.While this new technology will be disruptive to a number of industries, there will also be business opportunities in the manufacturing, installation, and servicing of LENR systems in multiple applications and sizes around the globe. Millions of LENR units of varying sizes will be required because of the distributed nature of this energy technology.

There is a probability that LENR may never emerge as a reliable, new energy source. If not LENR, then what? Eventually, some other technology is bound to come along with a much superior value proposition than hydrocarbons.It is not a matter of if, but when, this will happen. There was nothing the whaling industry could do to halt its pending decline, and the same will be true when a new technology makes our current approaches to energy generation obsolete. It is vital for a company to have a strategy development process that recognizes and characterizes uncertainty, and deals with complexity appropriately, including potential game changers such as LENR. Such an approach places companies in a stronger position to mitigate risk and capture opportunities as our complex, unpredictable, and surprising future unfolds.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: alternativeenergy; cmns; coldfusion; ecat2; energy; energypolicy; lanr; lenr
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1 posted on 07/07/2012 7:25:45 AM PDT by Kevmo
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To: dangerdoc; citizen; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; glock rocks; free_life; ..

The Cold Fusion Ping List

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http://ecatnews.com/?p=1144


2 posted on 07/07/2012 7:27:12 AM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: Kevmo
If a hoax, Obama will expose it by investing gov’t money.
3 posted on 07/07/2012 7:37:16 AM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: Kevmo

Well,,,,, it was interesting,,, up to this sentence;

“Even wind farms and other emerging alternative energy technologies could not compete economically with LENR.”


4 posted on 07/07/2012 7:45:28 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Kevmo

“In 1989 at the University of Utah, Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann announced they had discovered a cold fusion process that would ultimately result in cheap, limitless energy.”

Hmmm.... as I recall Fleishmann and Pons announced that they had discovered a curious phenomena that should be studied and explored by those with deeper pockets.

They were vilified by the scientific community and ridiculed in the press.

The research only assumed the mantle of respectability when the USN started digging into it. Credit for their findings was awarded to a woman (name escapes me) with no attribution to Fleishmann and Pons.

Screw humanity; they are undeserving of your independent efforts.


5 posted on 07/07/2012 7:47:20 AM PDT by pingman ("Human history seems logical in afterthought, but a mystery in forethought." (Strauss & Howe))
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To: pingman
Actually, LENR is not seen as a legitimate scientific effort in the Condensed Matter Physics community. NRL is referenced, but LENR advocates at NRL are seen as heretics and that type if research has essentially been banned from NRL for good reason. I am personal friends with those who disproved F&P and moved strongly to keep NRL form embarrassing itself by going full speed in this direction.
6 posted on 07/07/2012 8:07:37 AM PDT by fuente
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To: Kevmo
"There is a probability that LENR may never emerge as a reliable, new energy source."
100%? What's Rossi's latest roll out date? ;-)
7 posted on 07/07/2012 8:09:32 AM PDT by Tunehead54 (Nothing funny here ;-)
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To: Kevmo

What Jethro Tull was to Y2K, Kevmo is to crackpot energy schemes....


8 posted on 07/07/2012 8:11:16 AM PDT by Yossarian ("All the charm of Nixon. All the competency of Carter." - SF Chronicle comment post on Obama)
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To: Kevmo
He earned BS degrees in psychology and education

Sounds like great qualifications for an energy expert.

9 posted on 07/07/2012 8:16:41 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: Yossarian

Jethro Tull the band, or Jethro Tull the plough advocate?


10 posted on 07/07/2012 8:24:31 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1263 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: Kevmo

Too bad some of the millions wasted on worthless “green” boondoggles like Solyndra weren’t directed toward this research.


11 posted on 07/07/2012 8:28:49 AM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: Kevmo
1 gram of nickel would be equivalent to about one barrel of oil

Stated another way, assuming a 42 gallon barrel of oil yields 33 gallons of gasoline, one ounce of nickel would yield the energy equivalent of 33 gallons of gasoline. Awesome if true.

12 posted on 07/07/2012 8:35:14 AM PDT by layman (Card Carrying Infidel)
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To: PeaRidge

I like that - give ‘em some Federal Guaranteed Loans, and see if they go belly up... IF they don’t, it might be the real thing.
Of course, then Obama will ban it...


13 posted on 07/07/2012 8:39:55 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: PAR35

Sometimes schooling just gets in the way of ability and creativity, but it does seem like he’s better trained to run scams that to work on energy sources...


14 posted on 07/07/2012 8:45:04 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Kevmo
Nano-sized particles of nickel, pressurized hydrogen, and a catalyst are heated in a small reactor to the point at which weak interactions between the reactants cause transmutation (i.e., some of the nickel is converted to copper). Considerable excess heat is emitted during this process. Once the reaction becomes self-sustaining, the input power can be reduced significantly and excess heat (up to 650°C) is generated in the range of five to 30 times the input energy.

This is where it starts to become technobabble. There is a lot of stringing together of unrelated concepts to make it sound flashy. First, the weak interaction occurs at the nuclear level and primarly involves radioactive decay modes (e.g., beta decay), so heating at the macroscopic level would not influence it. Then there is the inference of a chain reaction, but no credible mechanism to explain it. Chain reactions in uranium and plutonium fission depend on the release of particles from the nucleus (neutrons) during the fission process. There is nothing here to indicate what the initiating particles are in this postulated process.

Transmutation of nickel to copper involves the gain of a proton, either by bombardment with protons or conversion of a neutron into a proton. You can get the latter by neutron bombardment of nickel to create a neutron-rich form of nickel, which will beta decay to copper, but there is no mention of this process and how you would do it (i.e., neutron source).

15 posted on 07/07/2012 8:54:58 AM PDT by chimera
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To: PAR35

My thoughts to a tee. A person struggling to be either relevant or credible.

Nagel, maybe. Leach Probably not.

I’ll go with Thorium and LiFTR technology for $200.

I wouldn’t hold my breath on either of these for transportation fuel as in cars, trucks, tractors, airplanes etc.


16 posted on 07/07/2012 8:56:45 AM PDT by Sequoyah101 (You've been screwed by your government.)
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To: fuente

This stuff would be wonderful if true, but the likelihood of it turning out to be a useful source of energy is lower than the likelihood that it not a scam, and that is lower than the likelihood of 2 chemists with no nuclear physics training finding a whole new nuclear effect at very low energies that is real - and that probability is pretty damn low.


17 posted on 07/07/2012 9:04:19 AM PDT by expat2
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To: layman
one ounce of nickel would yield the energy equivalent of 33 gallons of gasoline.

I made a mistake .... make that 924 gallons of gasoline.

18 posted on 07/07/2012 9:24:43 AM PDT by layman (Card Carrying Infidel)
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To: expat2

Yup! I couldn’t agree more. Now if someone wanted to talk subcritical thorium reactors or something else under consideration, I would be all ears and would happily engage in witty conversation. It is amazing that scientists continue to stray from the scientific method and enter into the world of alchemy in pursuit of funding.


19 posted on 07/07/2012 10:36:29 AM PDT by fuente
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To: expat2

Yup! I couldn’t agree more. Now if someone wanted to talk subcritical thorium reactors or something else under consideration, I would be all ears and would happily engage in witty conversation. It is amazing that scientists continue to stray from the scientific method and enter into the world of alchemy in pursuit of funding.


20 posted on 07/07/2012 10:36:40 AM PDT by fuente
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To: expat2
Yup! I couldn't agree more. Now if someone wanted to talk sub-critical thorium reactors or something else under consideration, I would be all ears and would happily engage in witty conversation. It is amazing that scientists continue to stray from the scientific method and enter into the world of alchemy in pursuit of funding.
21 posted on 07/07/2012 10:37:17 AM PDT by fuente
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To: expat2
Yup! I couldn't agree more. Now if someone wanted to talk sub-critical thorium reactors or something else under consideration, I would be all ears and would happily engage in witty conversation. It is amazing that scientists continue to stray from the scientific method and enter into the world of alchemy in pursuit of funding.
22 posted on 07/07/2012 10:37:26 AM PDT by fuente
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To: expat2

I am sympathetic to your view. I will also say that I find it hard to believe that every group focusing on this form of energy production, is acting foolishly.

There must be some basis for their research.

I’m not sure what happened with Pons and Flieshman. I do think that a reaction of sorts occurred. I suppose I could be wrong, but I do not believe these two sought to pull a hoax.

Evidently, enough other groups felt as I did to cause them to do research in this area.

In parting I’ll say this. This is 2012. Pons and Flieshman made their report a long time ago. By this time I would think this area of investigation would have been fully debunked if there was nothing at all there.

I still remain patiently waiting to see what may develop.


23 posted on 07/07/2012 11:10:49 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: DoughtyOne
There must be some basis for their research.

Researchers run out of something to do from time to time (I know from experience), and look around for a new topic. Energy is a great area to get funding, and E-cat-type stuff is full of naifs so why not have a go?

I don't believe F&P tried to pull a hoax -- I think they just screwed up -- they were talking about things they know little about.

24 posted on 07/07/2012 11:26:37 AM PDT by expat2
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To: expat2

Yes, research dollars is a good retort.

Is it your thought then, that nothing out of the ordinary happened in Pons and Flieshman’s research, and that all government funded research should be shut down?

Isn’t a lot of this research being funded on university campuses and the like?


25 posted on 07/07/2012 11:37:46 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: Kevmo
Distributed generation is the energy source of the future, whatever the source.
But not mickey mouse "feel good" inefficient money pits like wind and solar.

We just can't afford to create gobs of energy in isolated places, and lose half of it in transmission losses.

That it truly stupid, in 2012.

26 posted on 07/07/2012 11:43:05 AM PDT by publius911 (Formerly Publius 6961, formerly jennsdad)
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To: DoughtyOne

No, funding of good research should not be shut down, but those making funding decisions should take a careful look at the quality of the proposals they review. I don’t believe much funding went to F&P work, but very large sums have gone to ‘climatologists’ with doubtful ethics and a hatred of openness, a strong indicator of bad science.


27 posted on 07/07/2012 11:48:40 AM PDT by expat2
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To: chimera; Kevmo
No replies...

Don't assault kevmo with facts. He will either hide and remain unresponsive or he will start squawking something about seagulls...

Kevmo and rational, technical discussions of facts are like oil and water; you'll never find them occupying the same space...

Cue the seagulls in 10... 9... 8...

28 posted on 07/07/2012 1:34:31 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: Kevmo
The new source in energy?

It's already here, it works and it's called fracking. It will cause an energy boom in the future, especially in the US. However BHO will definitely prohibit it if he gets reelected.

29 posted on 07/07/2012 1:42:28 PM PDT by Lakeshark (I don't care for Mitt, the alternative is unthinkable)
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To: publius911

A distributed network of medium-sized modular reactors based on the HTGR concept would be very sweet. Site them a few hundred miles apart to minimize transmission losses, but have enough interconnects to allow redundancy, which provides for a very robust reliability. A standardized design and modularity would allow you to produce them in a factory and then move them on-site and get them running very quickly. The NGNP design at Idaho is inherently safe, modular, and could be sited underground if desired. The only problem is with the helium circulator. I have yet to see one that big that worked reliably, but it has been several decades since anyone tried it so maybe things have gotten better on that score.


30 posted on 07/07/2012 4:58:32 PM PDT by chimera
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To: fuente
"I am personal friends with those who disproved F&P and moved strongly to keep NRL form embarrassing itself by going full speed in this direction."

Yeah, right. Post references to their work. The "debunking" studies have themselves been debunked and have been shown to be flawed (when they weren't outright frauds, like the initial MIT work (which was shown to have actually generated excess heat, but which HAD THE DATA ALTERED to depict the reverse)).

Instead of talking to your "friends", I suggest you spend some time actually studying the experimental works. Ed Storms book is a very good place to start.

31 posted on 07/07/2012 5:39:41 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: expat2

I agree with points made in your response.

In fact I’d go so far as to say that some people getting government funding for global warming sciences, should have been prosecuted when it was found out they participated in a hoax.

Instead they still get the bucks and are still pretty much respected. How does that work anyway?

As for your hatred comment, I don’t think it’s limited to openness. They hate quite a few things when you get down to it.


32 posted on 07/07/2012 8:24:54 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

Well,,,,, it was interesting,,, up to this sentence;
***Why? The whole premise of this article is to look at it as a disruptive technology. IF it is real, then that statement is utterly obvious. Again, I say IF it is true.
And for those of you in Rio Linda, since you have SO much trouble accommodating a hypothetical, once again I say IF it is true. IF. got it? IF. So that’s 5 times we have to say it, in order for someone to apprehend that it’s a hypothetical. Some freepers are just plain dense.


33 posted on 07/07/2012 8:43:23 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: pingman

The research only assumed the mantle of respectability when the USN started digging into it.
***The USNavy had been digging into it for 20 years or so.

Credit for their findings was awarded to a woman (name escapes me)
***Pamela Mosier-Boss, with her CR-39 triple tracks evidence of neutron activity.

with no attribution to Fleishmann and Pons.
***She attributes it plenty to F&P in my personal correspondence with her. I don’t know where you get the idea that she does not attribute the F&P effect to Flieshmann & Pons.

Screw humanity; they are undeserving of your independent efforts.
***No comprehende.


34 posted on 07/07/2012 8:47:07 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: Tunehead54

“There is a probability that LENR may never emerge as a reliable, new energy source.”


Tunhead: 100%?
***Exactly how do you go from “there is a probability” to 100%? It just doesn’t make any freeping sense. Why is it that the anti-LENR crowd is so ridiculous in their argumentation? Is that a glimpse of your ability to think rationally about this subject?


35 posted on 07/07/2012 8:49:15 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: Yossarian

I dunno what Jethro Tull did with Y2K, nor do I care. He’s a singer who should probably shut up & sing. And why do you insinuate that I’m into some other energy schemes besides LENR? If you’re gonna insult another freeper, be able to back it up.


36 posted on 07/07/2012 8:51:14 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: chimera

This is where it starts to become technobabble.
***I’m glad you see it that way, because here they are relying on the Widom-Larsen theory, which is bull shiite.


37 posted on 07/07/2012 8:54:16 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: PAR35

The other 2 guys have technobackgrounds. The psychology/education dude is COO, he’s in operations. Those guys are often not that smart. Why do you focus on such a straw argument anyways?


38 posted on 07/07/2012 8:56:55 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: expat2

likelihood of 2 chemists with no nuclear physics training finding a whole new nuclear effect at very low energies that is real - and that probability is pretty damn low.
***Then it should be a piece of cake for you and other nuclear scientists to completely obliterate the hundreds of peer-reviewed papers in LENR that have been published in the last 23 years, starting here:

http://lenr-canr.org/index/menu/menu.php

Of course, you guys NEVer do that, because you cannot. But it doesn’t stop you from throwing darts like a bunch of wussy chimps.


39 posted on 07/07/2012 9:01:35 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: publius911

That it truly stupid, in 2012.
***I agree. With such large transmission losses, it makes sense to look even at solar power generated at the source of need.

Right now in my utility area (PG&E), tier 3 rates are at 30cents/kwh, then 34, then 52 (maybe this last one has gone down). Solar panels can generate at about 25-29cents/kwh, so they can compete against PG&E in the higher tier rate usage.


40 posted on 07/07/2012 9:06:33 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: TXnMA

No replies...
***What’s the problem? No one complained about no replies. I have to make a living, unlike guys like you with your thumb up your rear end.


41 posted on 07/07/2012 9:08:57 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: TXnMA

Don’t assault kevmo with facts.
***Lay down all the facts you want, Texboy. You’ve never been good at it so far, I doubt you’ll be worth it now.

He will either hide
***Again I say, WTF? What’s the problem? I got a living to make. What is your freeping problem?

and remain unresponsive or he will start squawking something about seagulls...
***I dare you to find any seagull accusation coming from me in the last 3 months. Go on. I dare you. Now, what happens is crickets, because you CANNOT produce evidence. Of course, that doesn’t stop you from being a complete and total anti-LENR trolljerk.


42 posted on 07/07/2012 9:13:02 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: Wonder Warthog

The usual treatment. “My so-called friends did all this debunking somewhere, some time, somehow, so I get to display all kinds of ignorance of the facts on the ground.”


43 posted on 07/07/2012 9:15:04 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: Moonman62
Kevmo said:

Why is it that the anti-LENR crowd is so ridiculous in their argumentation?

Because anyone who is sane appears ridiculous to you.

44 posted on 07/07/2012 11:27:39 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Moonman62
Kevmo said:

http://lenr-canr.org/index/menu/menu.php

Of course, you guys NEVer do that, because you cannot. But it doesn’t stop you from throwing darts like a bunch of wussy chimps.

Of course, you never do anything but copy and paste links to personal websites, copy and paste mountains of crap from Ecat blogs, and appeal to quantity rather than quality.

45 posted on 07/07/2012 11:32:21 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: pingman
They were vilified by the scientific community and ridiculed in the press

This is the normal reaction to new developments.

The usual progression: First, denial and ridicule, then seeking their own research grants, then taking credit for discovering the new phenomenon...

Established academics frequently do not like their understanding of the order of the universe disrupted by earth-shaking developments.

46 posted on 07/08/2012 1:29:14 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: fuente
It is amazing that scientists continue to stray from the scientific method and enter into the world of alchemy in pursuit of funding.

Hey! It worked like a charm with that Anthropogenic Global Warming thingy until the politicians went ape...

47 posted on 07/08/2012 1:33:03 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: publius911
We just can't afford to create gobs of energy in isolated places, and lose half of it in transmission losses.

Perhaps not, but there is one heck of a lot of NIMBY to overcome if that paradigm will change.

Everyone wants cheap electricity and gasoline, but no one wants to live near the power plant or the refinery (unless they work there).

48 posted on 07/08/2012 2:12:33 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Kevmo
I don't know, it's just that what I've seen of W-L is, well, unconventional, to put it mildly. All that business about mass-renormalized surface plasmon polariton electrons, the “ghostly” ULM neutrons, etc. Like any theory, it has to be tested against experiment. I guess that is the next step, trying to get a consistent replication of testing results.
49 posted on 07/08/2012 2:16:12 AM PDT by chimera
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To: Kevmo

Kindly add me to your ping list. If this works, it will be a game-changer.


50 posted on 07/08/2012 2:19:07 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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