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If BHO is reelected, Time for Texas to Secede (Vanity)
July 7, 2012 | no dems

Posted on 07/07/2012 10:55:47 AM PDT by no dems

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To: Sherman Logan; LucyT
That must be true, else why would certain FReepers leap to his defense on birther threads?

I don't need to name names do I, Sherman?

101 posted on 07/07/2012 12:22:44 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1263 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: no dems
I'm a native born Texan, also. I believe you are wrong. I believe any state can secede. They are all sovereign states joined in a federation. The Union acted unlawfully when the South left the federation.
102 posted on 07/07/2012 12:22:54 PM PDT by Feckless (I was trained by the US << This Tagline Censored by FR >> ain't that irOnic?)
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To: wastedyears

Well, Plano is allegedly the wealthiest city in America as declared by the CB in 2008. Does that answer your question?


103 posted on 07/07/2012 12:23:13 PM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: Melas

Yep. I live in San Antonio. We have surpassed Dallas recently..over 1.5 million. Does not make me happy. I would love to move to the Hill Country.


104 posted on 07/07/2012 12:23:46 PM PDT by DallasSun (Courage~Fear that has said its prayers.)
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To: no dems

“Now, someone help me out here...”

OK, I’ll try. I’m a 7th generation Texan, descended from the original Texians brought to Texas by Stephen F. Austin and his brother.

Texas has changed a lot over the last 50 years. There will be no secession. Don’t waste your time on fantasies.

Liberals and conservatives keep looking for a free ticket out of what’s coming. There is none. There are about 10 more years of bad times coming no matter who gets elected.

I will agree things will be worse under Obama, and I certainly will be voting against him in November.


105 posted on 07/07/2012 12:26:03 PM PDT by SaxxonWoods (....The days are long, but the years are short.....)
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To: DallasSun
Yep. I live in San Antonio. We have surpassed Dallas recently..over 1.5 million. Does not make me happy. I would love to move to the Hill Country.

Beautiful there. However, after living in not only Arizona, but within the Navajo Nation for months, I do miss the energy of the city. I can't wait to get back to Dallas.

106 posted on 07/07/2012 12:29:14 PM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: no dems
Did Virginia, New York, Massachusetts or only of the 13 British Colonies have the "right" to secede from England? They did not, but did anyway.

Mexico's President Santa Anna said that Texas had no "right" to secede from Mexico. He was right, Texas did not have that right..... Texas did it anyway.

Several USA states once seceded. They pulled out their representation from the USA Congress. They formed a new country called the Confederate States of America. They elected a President, and formed a new Congress. They had no right, countries make their own laws, and they did not approve of this "divorce". The USA invaded the CSA and after a war between the USA and CSA, the states of the CSA rejoined the USA. Because the USA did not recognize the secession, they called it a rebellion. Secession is never "legal", and it only works if you win the fight.

I do not think Texas will ever secede. Texas gave up her independence and sovereignty a long time ago. People used to be passionate about liberty. Most people today do not want to live under liberty, they want entitlements (dependence). The problems across the USA are here in Texas as well. I would be very surprised if enough Texans would support such a movement to get two or more Texas House Reps to even whisper the word to each other.

107 posted on 07/07/2012 12:29:32 PM PDT by GregoTX (Federalist)
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To: cripplecreek
"I think Texas is already part of Mexico again."

Come down here to Texas and say that --'real loud'...

You'll be amazed how fast you get your @$$ kicked back to Michigan!

108 posted on 07/07/2012 12:30:07 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: Melas

I can certainly understand and your post is thought provoking. Although I was raised in a small, country town, I have lived in San Antonio for 47 years and know I would miss it dearly if I left. There is much to be said about the energy of the city...and the silence of the country. That silence is one of the things I miss the most. Come home soon.


109 posted on 07/07/2012 12:32:35 PM PDT by DallasSun (Courage~Fear that has said its prayers.)
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To: X-spurt
I've been doing some calculating. The Texas army natl. guard is about 19,000. The population of Texas is 25674681, est. Using No Dems's # of Texans willing to secede, .60=15404808.6. Assuming about half of them are able to fight, .50 of .60 of Texas population=7702404. Now, there 5500000 republicans nationwide. Lets say 15% of them are ready willing and able to go fight for Texas, .15= 825000. So total Texas armed forces=8546404. This does not account for the discrepancies in quality that would occur, regarding weaponry, moral, and overall capability. Thats with 2700 miles of state perimeter to defend (assuming the strategy would be to keep the war out of Texas, which is very well could not be), so about 3000 soldiers/militia per border mile.

Now, on the to other side. The US army is 562984 strong, discounting ALL natl. guard and reserve troops. Since there are a lot of Texans in the Army, and many many people who would refuse to shoot at fellow Americans, and the other theaters the US is engaged in, assume 30% of the US army paper-strength is committed. .30=168595.2 Mexico would not want to misss out on such a lovely opportunity to kickstart the reconquesta, so assume the Mexican army commits 25% of paper-strength. Mexican army=192000, .25=48000. Total=121075.2.

NOW, the air war. Mexico has about 360 aircraft of all types, 360*.25=90. US airforce has 2400 fighters, but many of those are natl guard.

Texas has one fighter squadron and recon squadron, discounting all other types such as comm, transport, etc, of which it has several.

All of this is roughly calculated with many unproven assumptions, and discounts logistics, transport, likely combat hotspots, areas of strategic importance, illegal immigrant subterfuge and terror attacks and the effects those might have, the likelihood of gorilla tactics on the part of Texas militia troops and the effect that would have, other states such as Arizona joining with Texas or, much stickier for the fedgov strategy, Alaska.

So what we are looking at...Is one incredibly bloody, destructive and likely vicious war, the outcome of which is far from predictable.

I just love mental wargames ;)

110 posted on 07/07/2012 12:32:51 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (The brain is the weapon; everything else is just accessories. --FReeper Joe Brower)
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To: TXnMA

LOL...Amen!


111 posted on 07/07/2012 12:33:24 PM PDT by DallasSun (Courage~Fear that has said its prayers.)
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To: TXnMA
You'll be amazed how fast you get your @$$ kicked back to Michigan!

You should be a lot less concerned about sending me back to Michigan and a lot more concerned about sending your illegal invaders back to Mexico.
112 posted on 07/07/2012 12:33:59 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: null and void

Some people are not birthers, but are opposed to the Obama administration.

Is that difficult for you to understand?

Or must everyone who wants Obama out believe he was secretly born in Kenya?


113 posted on 07/07/2012 12:34:10 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: no dems

“I guarantee you that Texas would vote 60% - 40% FOR Secession”

I’ve got a thousand bucks that says you are wrong about that. But I could never collect, so I’ve got another thousand bucks that says there won’t be a secession vote in the next ten years (I don’t want to wait forever to collect.)


114 posted on 07/07/2012 12:37:54 PM PDT by SaxxonWoods (....The days are long, but the years are short.....)
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To: Sherman Logan

Excellent point. So true. Why is that so hard to believe I will never know.


115 posted on 07/07/2012 12:38:14 PM PDT by DallasSun (Courage~Fear that has said its prayers.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Apparently as difficult as it is for some people to understand that a Natural Born Citizen has TWO citizen parents.

This, however is not as difficult to understand as someone who deliberately and repeatedly claims to be a constitutional conservative, yet maliciously attempts to muddy the waters any time Obama is attacked on constitutional grounds.

Not naming names, but a hit dog will holler...


116 posted on 07/07/2012 12:40:06 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1263 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: DallasSun

I love the River Walk in San Antonio. It has an energy all it’s own. I can see how you would quickly come to miss San Antonio. On the up side (for me) I’m hearing reports from friends that Deep Ellum in Dallas is once again revitalizing. It’s the closest thing we had to the River Walk and it was wonderful before it started to decay.


117 posted on 07/07/2012 12:43:33 PM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: Celtic Cross

If you bring every single industry in the country to Texas, her ability to stand strong will be greatly magnified. I was thinking about it before. If you bring in the ability to manufacture new WWII-era aircraft, using modern materials and techniques, and really build a lot of them, you could achieve some superiority, as well as recon the TX-Mexico border and respond to threats from there.

Bring arms manufacturing to TX, and I’m talking about heavy duty stuff. If you can get some robust aircraft built, and build a ton of Browning M2s, you could even arm craft like Cessna Skyhawks and television-news style Bell helicopters.

I have more ideas, I just need to be presented with a problem seeking a solution. But be warned, I didn’t go to college, and we all know how much those are worth (not the parchment they’re printed on).


118 posted on 07/07/2012 12:44:51 PM PDT by wastedyears ("God? I didn't know he was signed onto the system.")
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To: null and void
Apparently as difficult as it is for some people to understand that a Natural Born Citizen has TWO citizen parents.

When are both sides going to grow up and admit that natural born citizen has NEVER been LEGALLY defined in this country? The only thing legally obvious is that naturalized citizens are not eligible to become president.

Just curious as well, using your definition, would a child with an unknown father be eligible to president? An extremely common occurrence these days I might add.

119 posted on 07/07/2012 12:48:53 PM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: Melas

I did not know that about Deep Ellum but am happy to hear it. Being so close to downtown, I am surprised they ever let it go the way it did. I have family who recently retired and moved from Dallas to Austin in the winter, Montana in the summer. They miss Dallas. They know now they always will. She is a beautiful lady.


120 posted on 07/07/2012 12:49:22 PM PDT by DallasSun (Courage~Fear that has said its prayers.)
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To: no dems
If BHO is re-elected and Texas secedes from the Union, then my motto will be:

"You, Mr. President, may go to Hell. I will go to Texas"

121 posted on 07/07/2012 12:52:16 PM PDT by sargon (I don't like the sound of these "boncentration bamps")
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To: wastedyears

Sorry dude, but in the 21st century, drones would blow up your WWII replicas where they were parked. There is a lot more to ownership of the skies than aircraft alone, and the USA owns the skies. You couldn’t fly a stealthed sparrow over a USA military installation, while the AF would strike with impunity from aircraft you didn’t even know was in the air.


122 posted on 07/07/2012 12:56:50 PM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: wastedyears
What does the number of wealthy people in Texas look like compared to, say, New York, or anywhere in New England (a lot of old money). If you have a lot of people that don’t have a job that enables them to retire well before retirement age, then they’re going to get more back under federal law. Whereas with families in New England, who have linage that goes back to Revolutionary times, have been growing their trust funds since those times.

Not sure what this is in reference to, but those old rich families in New York and New England are a miniscule part of the population. Even families whose ancestors were here at the time of the Revolution are a small part of the population. Plus, a lot of retirees move out of state to parts of the country where the weather is better and taxes are less, so what they get in social security and medicare goes there.

As regards Texas secession, the whole country is moving in more or less the same direction, some parts faster than others, each with a different mix of tendencies, but all going through similar changes. A generation down the road an independent Texas is going to find itself going through the same things that California or New York is going through now -- all the faster if confused and rebellious young people don't move out of state.

123 posted on 07/07/2012 12:57:20 PM PDT by x
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To: Melas
When are both sides going to grow up and admit that natural born citizen has NEVER been LEGALLY defined in this country?

Just curious as well, using your definition, would a child with an unknown father be eligible to president?

No.

An extremely common occurrence these days I might add.

Actions and irresponsibility have consequences.

Having a child who can have any one of every single job an entire wealthy country offers except two is a pretty small price to pay for banging every guy on the football, basketball, track and baseball teams.


124 posted on 07/07/2012 1:01:19 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1263 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: no dems

and what to do then about the:

98% of blacks

65% of latinos

and 26% of whites*

who all voted for Obama in 2008?

man...those Yankees who moved into Texas from late 70s on for the oil patch at first sure killed your white voting stats

Mississippi and Alabama voted almost 90% white vote against Obama...Texas woulda too but for the Rust Belt migration


125 posted on 07/07/2012 1:03:56 PM PDT by wardaddy (John Roberts collection of Sally Quinn's panties just got a hefty contribution this week..)
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To: P-Marlowe
I really don’t think anyone in power is going to seriously consider secession

There you nailed it. We don't need to seceed, those "in power" need to go.

126 posted on 07/07/2012 1:06:00 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Sherman Logan

“They do allow TX to split into up to five states.”

Can you provide link for that?

Thanks.


127 posted on 07/07/2012 1:08:58 PM PDT by Hulka
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To: DallasSun

“But we can fly our Texas flag the same height as the U.S. Flag.”

Really? Can I have a link for that as I am in Flower Mound (near Dallas) and would like to do that but I want to read the rule myself.

Thanks.


128 posted on 07/07/2012 1:11:43 PM PDT by Hulka
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To: Celtic Cross

“massive firepower”? “Mexico”??

hee hee hee


129 posted on 07/07/2012 1:11:57 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: null and void

I happen to believe Obama was constitutionally, though unwisely, elected president.

If I “muddy the waters” when “Obama is attacked on constitutional grounds” it is because I believe the arguments made for his ineligibility are not valid. I think this “clears the waters” rather than muddying them.

Is it really so difficult to comprehend the difference between opposition to a politician, and refusal to accept the validity of every argument against him?

A classic example being, “a Natural Born Citizen has TWO citizen parents.”

This is not a fact, no matter how often it is capitalized. It is a contention or argument. It has some points in its favor, but after considerable research I have decided it is incorrect. The only thing that would settle it definitively would be a Supreme Court ruling on the issue. If they were to decide that you are right, I’d be happy to accept the ruling.

Till then, it is a highly debatable point, not a fact.

I want Obama to be voted out of office. I assume you do, too. Is that not more important now than obscure argumentation about Vattel and Wong Kim Ark?


130 posted on 07/07/2012 1:12:04 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: DRey
You did a great job of debunking the "Texas has a right to secede" myth. Let me do a little work on the other half of the claim: "only Texas was an Independent country prior to joining the USA... "

This claim is false. There are several other states or regions that were independent prior to joining the Union. To start with not all the States joined the Union together, back in the 18th Century. I believe that Vermont held out the longest before signing up. As the Revolution was long past there were an independent country for a while there...

The strongest claim to Independence belongs not to Texas, but to Hawaii. There is no disputing that Hawaii was a sovereign Kingdom for many years prior to the events which made it a US Territory.

The West Florida Republic had a brief time as an independent nation, and comprised parts of modern day Miss, Alabama and Louisiana. They were the first American mini-nation to use the Bonnie Blue Flag --- the guys in Texas might be familiar with the basic design, I think they borrowed it.

Those who only know the Texas faux-history of the USA are doomed to repeat it (endlessly on Free Republic).

131 posted on 07/07/2012 1:13:17 PM PDT by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: Melas

You own a home here, but are you a Texan? Two different things, bub.


132 posted on 07/07/2012 1:14:13 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (Man is not free unless government is limited. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Hulka

Any state can, it’s a myth. However, Texas state code does require that the Texas flag fly at the same height if on separate poles.

https://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ref/abouttx/flagcode.html


133 posted on 07/07/2012 1:15:49 PM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: no dems

I’ll move back to Texas as soon as the process begins. I’ll bring the rest of my family with me... or maybe we can get Mississippi to join with you.

LLS


134 posted on 07/07/2012 1:16:11 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: SaxxonWoods

I am a new comer too, one of my ancestors was born here during The Republic. hee hee hee

Family has been in this county since 1889. I was the first to move away (for 25 years), but moved back in 1995.

I live in what the guys in Dallas call “the big nothing”.


135 posted on 07/07/2012 1:16:25 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: no dems
If TX secedes I'm moving to TX.
136 posted on 07/07/2012 1:16:57 PM PDT by Gluteus Maximus
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To: Melas
Just curious as well, using your definition, would a child with an unknown father be eligible to president? An extremely common occurrence these days I might add.

Some of the birthers get so deep into the weeds they cut off their own ankles without realizing it.

I have seen claims that Obama's "real" father was actually Malcolm X or some guy in HI who wrote dirty poetry, forget his name.

Both of whom were American citizens, and therefore would invalidate the claim that Obama isn't natural-born.

BTW, what of the possible case where a candidate's biological father is not the same as his mother's husband? Also not an uncommon occurrence. Should we require paternity tests for all candidates for President?

BTW, thanks for your comment. You are exactly right. The term has never been defined.

137 posted on 07/07/2012 1:18:51 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan
How do you run a government of the people, by the people and for the people when 40% of those people are adamantly opposed to your government?

Seventy percent of the people opposed ACA, yet they see to have been able to put it in place. I don't buy your premise.

138 posted on 07/07/2012 1:18:59 PM PDT by itsahoot (The Political Elites are the modern Royals, and the king shall have his due.)
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To: Melas

“How much dairy is made in Alaska? What medicines are produced in Alaska? What dry goods are made in Alaska? What industrial products are made in Alaska? Vegetables, wheat, rice, corn, sugar?”

Dubai and the other Emerites qualify for that description.

They have oil. Alaska has oil.

Like any nation, international trade is key.


139 posted on 07/07/2012 1:19:21 PM PDT by Hulka
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To: Melas
Just fyi, Oklahoma and Louisiana are taker states to use your lingo. There are only 11 payer states (states that bleed more money to the fed than they receive) and 39 taker states. I’ve made jaws drop when I’ve pointed out that Wyoming, percentage wise, is the biggest taker state in the union, receiving far more in federal money than is taken from the state. California might be nearly bankrupt internally, but it’s the biggest payer state, giving far more to the fed than it ever sees back.

I'm extremely doubtful of these statistics. What's counted as "taking". There is a big difference between sending money to an Army base in your state and sending the state a few billion to support their Section 8 housing dependents.

We know California has more welfare recipients than any other state, it has about 1/3 of all the welfare queens in America!

140 posted on 07/07/2012 1:19:59 PM PDT by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: Hulka

All states can do that. I was being facetious for someone else’s benefit. I keep sending them to snopes. You can go there and find all states can actually do that. Of course, here, we fly all 6 flags.


141 posted on 07/07/2012 1:22:44 PM PDT by DallasSun (Courage~Fear that has said its prayers.)
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To: wastedyears

But what about those who trade iberty for a gulf breeze?

There’s got to be an exception for that :P


142 posted on 07/07/2012 1:23:08 PM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Hulka

All states can do that. I was being facetious for someone else’s benefit. I keep sending them to snopes. You can go there and find all states can actually do that. Of course, here, we fly all 6 flags. And hello, hulka. Good to see you.


143 posted on 07/07/2012 1:23:13 PM PDT by DallasSun (Courage~Fear that has said its prayers.)
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To: Melas
In a word, no. I am an American, yes an American who owns a home in Texas, and no way am I willingly going to be a homeless refugee in a border state because Texas seceded.

Therein lies the problem. You see yourself as an American citizen, giving your allegiance to the federal government instead of your State; this is much like a German/Frenchman/Englishman giving his allegiance to the EU rather than his country.

144 posted on 07/07/2012 1:24:06 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: TXnMA

Not if said anywhere south of San Antonio. . .or in El Paso.


145 posted on 07/07/2012 1:24:18 PM PDT by Hulka
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To: Hulka
Third -- New States of convenient size not exceeding four in number, in addition to said State of Texas and having sufficient population, may, hereafter by the consent of said State, be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission under the provisions of the Federal Constitution

https://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ref/abouttx/annexation/march1845.html

However, it should be noted that this provision was more or less redundant, as any state can be split into two or more states by action of its legislature and Congress.

Article IV, Section 3: "New states may be admitted by the Congress into this union; but no new states shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more states, or parts of states, without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress."

The only difference I can see is that TX can split itself without congressional approval. But then the new states would still have to petition for entry into the Union.

146 posted on 07/07/2012 1:25:16 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan
I want Obama to be voted out of office. I assume you do, too.

You assume correctly.

At this point I'm not assuming there will be an election this November, let alone that it will be fair.

I will continue to do all I legally can to both eliminate him from office AND invalidate all he has done as a fraudulent occupier of the White House.

Please do feel free to continue doing everything you can to denigrate any attempt to question his legitimacy.

I'm sure the haters of the American Dream appreciate every iota of support you provide to defend Obama's allah-given right to rule over this country.

Perhaps the allahgator will eat you last.

147 posted on 07/07/2012 1:25:16 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1263 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: greene66
In the past six months, I’ve seen more “Secede” bumper stickers here in Texas than Obama or Romney stickers.

Here's why:

Obama               Romney
  |                    |
  |                    |
  |                    |
  |                    |
 Marxist             Fabian
 Socialist           Socialist
  \                    /
   \                  /
    \                /
     \              /
      \            /
       \          /
        IMPLEMENTS
         SOCIALISM

148 posted on 07/07/2012 1:25:51 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Tzar
taker state argument?

biggest taker states are either simply low population density but with highways and big federal land mngt like Wyoming

or states with a lot of military presence

or with high non productive minority populations like Mississippi

it all contributes

and it means nothing really

it is a liberal argument bolstered by liberals and race baiters and folks here who have no clue in the culture war...somebody at the Nation or HuffPo or in Jon Stewart's office discovered this morsel that rich urban and liberal states with high taxes pay in more than they take in usually and even some here run with it like every money spent in that state is an entitlement

it was a favorite point of trumandogz...now banned..anyone remember him?

149 posted on 07/07/2012 1:26:07 PM PDT by wardaddy (John Roberts collection of Sally Quinn's panties just got a hefty contribution this week..)
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To: Texas Fossil

They do have a military.


150 posted on 07/07/2012 1:29:11 PM PDT by Celtic Cross (The brain is the weapon; everything else is just accessories. --FReeper Joe Brower)
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