Skip to comments.Fiery Reaction to Marine’s Stolen Saddam Rifle (Marine Convicted of Possessing Iraqi AK-47)
Posted on 07/07/2012 5:22:04 PM PDT by DogByte6RER
Fiery Reaction to Marines Stolen Saddam Rifle
Is it among the spoils of war? Or worthy of a felony conviction that carries a 10-year prison sentence?
The recent conviction of a Twentynine Palms Marine from Hemet has sparked a debate from readers and a fierce defense from the Marine himself.
To rewind, Staff Sgt. Joel Cleve Miller was convicted last week of illegal possession of a machine gun. Federal prosecutors said he smuggled a chrome-plated AK-47 that once belonged to Iraqi Dictator Saddam Husseins Royal Guard back to his home in Hemet after a 2005 tour in Iraq.
Miller now faces up to 10 years in federal prison (more likely four years based on legal statutes) for the felony conviction. The conviction marks the end to a 20-year career in the Marine Corps and a checkered past that previously led to his bad conduct discharge for forging more than $30,000 in fraudulent travel expenses. He was acquitted of two other charges that he possessed and sold other weapons.
The debate comes down to the question of should a Marines tour of service outweigh his criminal transgressions.
In his own defense, Miller has started a website, Free Joel Cleve Miller, U.S Marine
On his site, Miller lists a brief statement that he thought all chrome machine guns were inactive. Consequently federal prosecutors found the gun was a functioning machine gun.
His wife and her boyfriend set Him up. They were given 5th amendment protection because they are both being investigated for perjury for there grand jury testimony. It prevented him from bringing in much of the evidence that would set him free, Miller said.
Supporters from across the country have decried the conviction as well, arguing that Millers tour of service should exonerate him and calling the story a fabrication of the libelous media.
To be fair, the article written is based on federal court documents which outlined the evidence in the case.
Other comments call Miller a fool for being caught in a bumbling crime. One comment, who appears to be his wife also commented defending herself and turning him in.
WOW amazing how you people want to attack ME for doing the right thing!!!! Not one of you attacking me know me nor do you know what I dealt with in my marriage!! So before you have me sent to Iraq and stoned to death get your heads out of your rear and just know you do not know the whole story also I was never in jeopardy of losing my children, or did you forget he was discharged with a dishonorable that should tell you something about him
On his Facebook page, Miller also touts his defense and asks for support and letters to his federally appointed public defender. He is set to be sentenced in Riverside federal court Sept. 27.
The Facebook page also carries a photo of a Marine platoon with the American flag and a SS flag for the Scout Sniper team. Its unclear if Miller was listed in the photo.
The flag coincidentally is also the symbol of the German Nazi Schutzstaffel an armed guard for the Nazis during World War II.
The Marine Corps investigated the case last year, according to CNN, They determined that the Marines in the photo were ignorant of the connection of this symbol to the Holocaust and monumental atrocities associated with Nazi Germany.
Former Marine Joel Cleve Miller was convicted in U.S. court of possessing a fully automatic AK-47. Weapons experts determined the gun was from Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan because of its markings.
Earlier FReeeper thread posted about this ...
Hemet: Marine convicted of smuggling rifle from Saddam palace (AK-47 stolen from Saddam’s palace)
He should have known enough to make it inoperable, at least temporarily.
Related news link references and FB page ...
“Fiery reaction to Marines stolen Saddam rifle”
“Former Marine guilty of having AK-47 from Iraq”
“Free Joel Cleve Miller US Marine”
Joel Dutch Miller (Face Book)
I think I found a use for “don’t ask, don’t tell.”
On another note, I don’t see a problem with war trophies being registered as long as they don’t create a hazard to the community, like unexploded ordnance. If someone wants an artillery shell, have EOD drill it out. Other than that it’s fine with me. The guy was willing to give his life for this country, why not let him take something home?
When my father walked off the aircraft carrier Kittyhawk on his return from the Pacific after WWII, one of the guys in his bunking area walked down the gangplank and onto US soil with several barrels sticking up out of his seabag - including a Thompson SMG.
My, oh my, how things have changed.
Looks like a machine pistol AK to me.
Dang that is one good looking AK.
Too bad he did not lose the firing pin.
Don’t we have a policy of one AK-47 per household?
I’m not necessarily trying to defend the guy ... he got the Big Chicken Dinner for other misconduct.
But ... the AK pistol is chrome plated suggesting that it may have been used as a ceremonial weapon for Saddam’s palace guard. While palace guards would be expected to carry functional and loaded weapons, maybe there was something like a palace guard precision drill team? If so, it would make sense that the weapons were de-activated.
I’m just thinking out loud ...
What a bunch of anti-gun hysteria.
If not, we should!
Oh, I think that was only for the Iraqi households. My bad.
“federal prosecutors found the gun was a functioning machine gun.”
Federal prosecutors have found a shoelace was a functioning machine gun.
We’re talking an agency which WILL convict you if they want to.
Not saying he was right or wrong, just that there is room for doubt. Lots of room.
Your talking Commiefornia here man; where anything short, stubby, black , shiny, with a pistol grip, flash suppressor or any thing that will hold more than one squirt of water is considered a weapon of mass destruction. The media p#ssys just wet themselves some thing fierce when they see any thing as lethal as a rubber band gun. I just wish I had been smart enough to retire out of state, but stuck here now.
What are the chances this Marine didn’t know the difference? Slim to none.
OTOH, it was quite the souvenir!
losing the firing pin doesn’t do it because firing pins are commonly available. Per the ATF you would have to destroy the receiver to demilitarize it.
No problem, the Feds would just fix it and proceed with the prosecution. They have done this to numerous demilled weapons.
That is reasonable. But we are now living in a communists inspired Country and we are now all criminals. No way to escape since we are lawed to death. Freedom is gone.
I think the Bad Conduct Discharge is enough reason to not let him bring captured weapons home.
Correct me if I am wrong, but a BCD is normally enough to prevent you from legally purchasing firearms.
And Holder probably won’t spend a day in jail and he got people killed.
Exactly - he obviously isn’t the brightest bulb in the pack...
So - what ever happened to soldiers being able to bring home “souvenirs of their service”? Lots of GIs from WWII not only brought home, but also MAILED home everything from rifles to lighters ashtrays. Lots of stuff...
I wouldn’t know, I’ve never been in the military and don’t know anything about the Code of Military Justice.
You don't have the right JBT mindset. Don't you know that the ATF attacked (and slaughtered) the Branch Davidians in Waco because they were accused of having a few auto sears that could be used for converting semi-auto rifles to MACHINE GUNS -- without the ATF's permission?
No American can have a full-auto weapon without first kissing the @$$#$ of Holder's JBTs at ATF!!!
That lesson MUST be taught!
“When my father walked off the aircraft carrier Kittyhawk on his return from the Pacific after WWII, one of the guys in his bunking area walked down the gangplank and onto US soil with several barrels sticking up out of his seabag - including a Thompson SMG.
My, oh my, how things have changed.”
Not really, if they had caught your father he would have been facing the exact same charges as the feds outlawed unregistered machine guns in the early 1930’s. The guy was an idiot for showing that off to friends in California of all places where they freak out at the sight of a sling-shot let alone an AK-47. That said I’m all for jury nullification in cases like this, unfortunately it’s only the blacks that have wised up on that account (at least if you consider the OJ verdict and a few other high profile trials where all black juries let and obvious guilty perp walk). Whites have yet to wise up but hopefully they will ... before it’s too late.
Rules have changed. Any war trophy must be approved by the authorities in theater before shipment stateside. Almost no firearms are ever signed off on and even many bladed weapons are refused. COs just do not want to get involved.
The guy knew the gun was illegal anywhere on US soil.
A BCD is his ticket to never own or possess a firearm for the rest of his life (he knew this as well).
Even a hero can run a foul of the law by making dumb choices. Duke Cunningham, for one.
They should give him a nice walnut show case to display the gun in, pin a nice shiny medal on him that has a place in the case too... and send him on the way after a series of salutes and apologies.
He was dishonorably discharged in December of 2011 for approving false travel claims and stealing from the United States government.
He is not likely to be getting a medal pinned on his chest.
"If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."
Fie on all those in the Marines, the media, the Federal Government who are going after this defender of America.
I am in my 60s — who in my generation did not know a friend whose uncle or father had brought back some flag, bayonet, or weapon captured from the Germans or the Japanese.
Did any of these heroes get prosecuted?
Does no one get that the CommieLibs keep changing the rules and moving the goal posts — like how now here in Texas you may no longer drive with an open container or ride in the back of a pick-up or ride in the back seat of a car without your seatbelts on.
We just keep taking it. We are such good-natured sheeple! We make it easy for the enemy within to assert control, one oppressive law, regulation, or prosecution after another.
I hope this guy survives this rap.
One last question: What benefit is there to prosecuting this guy? Only to the gun-grabbers and the oppressors in the Federal Government. It does nothing to help the Marines, this guy, his ex-wife, or the Iraqis.
The agenda is so transparent: A child could see it. Shoot, even I can see it.
“The debate comes down to the question of should a Marines tour of service outweigh his criminal transgressions.”
“If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.”
Crime? What crime?
He had a BCD? Okay, that’s bad. I don’t want a guy with a BCD walking around with an automatic weapon.
I will temper those words with the recognition I don’t know why he got a BCD...it might have been chickensh*t, but they don’t normally give a BCD for things like that.
I understand he served, but there is a difference between serving honorably and serving dishonorably. I will withhold full judgement pending more knowledge about the nature of his BCD.
But on its face, that is bad.
Went back and re-read, $30,000 of forged travel claims. Bad. Bad. Bad.
My first reaction was similar to yours, but given that the guy got a BCD for forging $30,000 of travel claims, I am not standing behind this guy. He isn’t one I extend that to.
My guess is that the rules changed as more and more machine guns became prevalent on the battlefields. Moreover, the Gun Control Act of 1968’s ban on importing machine gun receivers would have put the kibosh on it...as I recall there were a few genuine AK-47s (among other burp guns) that made it over as war trophies from Vietnam (dewatted or otherwise) before 1968.
And ATF’s rule on receivers is “once a machine gun, always a machine gun”. Even if it was made as a semiauto and got the “happy switch” later with no mods to the receiver (e.g. an M1 carbine converted to an M2).
We're talking about an agency that burns American women and children alive!
Saint GW did nothing! Expect the same from Muttins!
If someone can make 20 years in the Marines and not know whether a firearm is functional or not, it speaks very poorly for the organization. But I'm thinking this guy might be a liar as well as a thief.
This boy is already soup sandwich. He should be labeled as an ex-Marine. He has brought shame on the Marine Corps.
Once he got the BCD... he shouldn’t complain... he is the Master of his own Destiny IOW he brought this on himself ... and he has a big mouth and an EX with a big mouth
all in all ... a lot of bad choices
He shouldn’t have to make it inoperable. The MG ban needs to die a horrible death and the NFA needs to go away. That would solve the problem nicely and bring Federal Law into compliance with the Constitution. Sadly, we’re going to have to jam a SCOTUS decision on this up their backside to get it.
And if SCOTUS finds that the MG ban and the NFA are Constitutional, that will be when the fun begins because we’re going to slap the leftists with the decision on every other Civil Rights front.
“My, oh my, how things have changed.”
You can say that again twice; and not for the better, either.
My first reaction was similar to yours, but given that the guy got a BCD for forging $30,000 of travel claims, I am not standing behind this guy. He isnt one I extend that to.
They don’t call them jarheads for nothing!
Still, we must stand against these “manufactured” crimes that have little or no basis in Scripture or conscience.
Hell, if they outlaw farting more than four times a day, I would be a criminal, too. :-)
I agree with you on the “manufactured” crimes.
Hahaha...when the government can control your Gore-Like Global Warming Emissions...THE SPHINCTERS ARE IN CHARGE!
“Sphincters in charge!” Love it! Thank you.