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Final Solution? Infant Circumcision Outlawed In Germany!
NC Register ^ | July 8, 2012 | Jimmy Akin

Posted on 07/08/2012 1:53:12 PM PDT by NYer

Sometimes today you encounter stories that are truly jaw-dropping, like this one being reported by the Washington Post.

Headlined, "The Crime of Circumcision," it deals with a ruling issued by a judge in Germany that prohibits Jews from circumcizing their baby boys:

A district judge in Cologne, Germany, recently ruled that ritual circumcision is a crime, violating “the fundamental right of the child to bodily integrity,” which outweighs other parental and religious rights. “This change runs counter to the interests of the child,” the court concluded, “who can decide his religious affiliation himself later in life.”

Circumcision is a rite central to the Jewish faith and is, in fact, the rite by which a male becomes part of the Jewish community.

The circumcision of infants is also expressly commanded by Jewish law, which requires the circumcision of baby boys on the eighth day after birth.

Unsurprisingly, the decision is being condemened by religious folks:

German religious figures from all the Abrahamic faiths criticized the Cologne ruling, with particular outrage expressed by Jewish leaders. ­Dieter Graumann, head of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, called it “outrageous and insensitive” and warned that a general application of the decision would “coldbloodedly force Judaism into illegality.”

But hailed by anti-religious folks:

Though the ban directly applies in only one region of Germany, secular supporters count it a triumph and a precedent. One academic, Holm Putzke, celebrated the rejection of “religiously motivated violence against children.” “The court has,” he said, “unlike many politicians, not been deterred by the fear of being criticized as anti-Semitic or antireligious.”

(Excerpt) Read more at ncregister.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: circumcision; germany; islam; jews; secularism

1 posted on 07/08/2012 1:53:25 PM PDT by NYer
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To: SJackson; ml/nj; wagglebee

Moral absolutes ping!


2 posted on 07/08/2012 1:54:16 PM PDT by NYer (Without justice, what else is the State but a great band of robbers? - St. Augustine)
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To: NYer

Do they allow newborn ear-piercing?


3 posted on 07/08/2012 1:54:51 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: NYer

It is just a way to outlaw Jews and Christians again.


4 posted on 07/08/2012 1:55:45 PM PDT by bmwcyle (Corollary - Electing the same person over and over and expecting a different outcome is insanity)
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To: NYer

How about abortions?


5 posted on 07/08/2012 1:57:11 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Help reduce voter fraud in America! If you see something, say something!)
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To: NYer

Germany creating special laws that apply to jews .... where have we heard this story before? Seems it has a very catestropic ending, if I recall correctly.


6 posted on 07/08/2012 1:57:16 PM PDT by Hodar (A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.- Burroughs)
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To: NYer
violating “the fundamental right of the child to bodily integrity,” which outweighs other parental and religious rights. “This change runs counter to the interests of the child,” the court concluded, “who can decide his religious affiliation himself later in life.”

Most circumcisions take place within two days of birth. According the Partial-Birth-Aborter-In-Chief that child didn't have any rights even on the day he/she was born. When did the "rights" miracle take place?

7 posted on 07/08/2012 1:58:56 PM PDT by immadashell
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To: ilovesarah2012

I always wondered about that, does it really
stop ear wax build up?


8 posted on 07/08/2012 1:58:56 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: NYer

I think this is more about Muslims than Jews. My son was born in Germany about ten years ago. I requested that he be circumcised and the first doctor flat out asked me why and told me only Muslims do that. Long story short, I went to about three doctors and none of them would do it. I ended up flying him home at about two month and having it done in the US.


9 posted on 07/08/2012 2:03:49 PM PDT by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: NYer

German jails will be full of mohels....


10 posted on 07/08/2012 2:05:47 PM PDT by freebilly
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To: NYer

IIRC legitimate medical research studies have shown it lessens to frequency of certain diseases...cancer,IIRC,being one of them...and also,IIRC,world health experts are pushing it in Africa as a way to stop the spread of AIDS.


11 posted on 07/08/2012 2:10:12 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative
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To: NYer

This is totally wrong. There are plenty of medical reasons for circumcision. Maybe they will require a medical doctor ot perform it rather than a Rabbi. (There have been some accidents). How about Muslims messing with the girls, also called circumcision?


12 posted on 07/08/2012 2:12:55 PM PDT by shalom aleichem
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To: NYer

There are going to be a lot of injured Muslim babies from home circumcisions. Jews will find humane and medically safe ways to get around the ruling. Watch for circumcision clinics to spring up in countries where circumcision is legal, unless Germany decides ban its citizens from leaving the country to have their baby boys circumcised. Religious custom will find a way to prevail.


13 posted on 07/08/2012 2:19:45 PM PDT by pallis
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To: NYer
That's probably too Jew-centric. Most of the circumcisions in Germany are almost certainly performed on Muslim babies.
14 posted on 07/08/2012 2:25:14 PM PDT by expat2
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To: NYer

The Germans haven’t changed much since the last great war.


15 posted on 07/08/2012 2:36:36 PM PDT by wolfcreek (A closed eye mentality is the reason for our current reality)
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To: Gay State Conservative

it lessens to frequency of certain diseases////

It also has a fatality rate when done on newborn infants. There are no fatalities when done on six month plus infants.
Shouldn’t this lead one to forgo newborn circumcision?


16 posted on 07/08/2012 2:36:36 PM PDT by W. W. SMITH (Maybe the horse (RNC) will learn to sing)
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To: NYer

This is really GREAT news and I am giving new hope in our fight. The liberal Jews in Europe and the US have for over 75 years supported socialism in all it’s debased forms, now yet again the fruit of their labor is coming forth.

At some point these liberal idiots may realize they are the problem, not the court or the government, they put them in power to begin with, they donate to the socialist misfits running for office.

Reap the harvest they have sown.


17 posted on 07/08/2012 3:02:56 PM PDT by stockpirate (Slaves to the collective! SCOTUS is just as corrupt as congress. IMPEACH ROBERTS!)
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To: Hodar

Germany just can’t leave the jews alone, can it!


18 posted on 07/08/2012 3:15:52 PM PDT by bigbob
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Uh-oh! Ping


19 posted on 07/08/2012 3:21:04 PM PDT by KC_Lion (The Supreme Court issued their ruling on Obamacare. Soon, We the People shall issue ours.)
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To: shalom aleichem; NYer
Sexual wellness researchers recognize that male circumcision has significant public health benefits. The World Health Organization and UNAIDS currently recommend circumcision as part of a comprehensive program for prevention of HIV transmission in areas with high endemic disease rates. Kenyan health officials want more than 1 million men to get circumcised by the end of 2012, because the procedure can reduce the risk of contracting HIV by up to 60 percent. If the effort succeeds, it will likely prove a model for the rest of Africa.

I do not believe that male circummcision should be legally mandated for all. However, having one's infant boys circumcised is a reasonable decision: neither ignorant nor barbaric.

The word "mutilation" in this context is misleading. Mutilation connotes crippling or maiming: the deliberate deprivation of overall function. This is not the case with the circumcised penis: its reproductive function is unimpaired, and circumcised men find intercourse an intensely pleasurable experience.

This makes male circumcision significantly different from female genital mutilation, which truly is maiming.

20 posted on 07/08/2012 3:40:53 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: NYer

Alles In Ordnung!

The ghost of the Third Reich appears, goose stepping up to the Judge’s chair in a German Court.

Sieg Heil!


21 posted on 07/08/2012 3:50:11 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

The word “mutilation” in this context is misleading. Mutilation connotes crippling or maiming: the deliberate deprivation of overall function. This is not the case with the circumcised penis: its reproductive function is unimpaired, and circumcised men find intercourse an intensely pleasurable experience.

This makes male circumcision significantly different from female genital mutilation, which truly is maiming.


Not to mention that neither Christianity nor Judaism prescribes female “circumcision”—a practice usually held in muslim or pagan communities.

Female genital mutilation is wrong and horrible, IMO. But if I may stir the pot, is it something that should be illegal? 9 times out of 10, it is performed on 10-11 year olds of a specific culture/religion.

I am genuinely curious, trying to work this out for myself: Is is fair to say FGM should be illegal but not male circumcision? I think that male circumcision is beneficial in some cases and perfectly fine, but I think FGM is horrific. Still, isn’t banning FGM as a religious rite only setting a precedent to ban male circumcision? Didn’t the religious community set themselves up for this by banning FGM?

Furthermore, some people do weird things to their bodies—just watch one of those “taboo” shows on NatGeo and what people do—splitting tongues, etc...

Not trying to be inflammatory, these are some real questions I have.


22 posted on 07/08/2012 4:07:11 PM PDT by Conservaliberty (25 and conservative. I guess I have no heart, Oh, well, makes shooting the bad guys easier.)
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To: ilovesarah2012
Do they allow newborn ear-piercing?

How about Doberman ear cropping and tail docking?

23 posted on 07/08/2012 4:07:38 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: Hodar

This law will affect muslims too.


24 posted on 07/08/2012 5:01:38 PM PDT by 353FMG
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To: riri

>I think this is more about Muslims than Jews.<

.
What will prohibiting circumsision do to muslims? They’ll perform the procedure privately.

They will continue to flock to Germany regardless of this law.


25 posted on 07/08/2012 5:10:18 PM PDT by 353FMG
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To: SJackson

ping


26 posted on 07/08/2012 6:40:58 PM PDT by GOPJ (Speak truth to lies - to ignorance. Speak honesty to corruption . Stand-up to liberal elite liars..)
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To: Conservaliberty
I think you have to ban mutilation of children, or of any nonconsenting person. You have to have an objective definition for mutilation, which would be: that it causes lasting, substantial loss of function of a limb or organ or system. That means that typical small foreskin-clipping, or ear-piercing, or suchlike is OK; FGM or, say, lopping off a finger or a nose, is not.

There may be hard-to-call borderline cases. That's what jury trials are for. Every law on the books has borderline cases: but let's make a border, and let it be plain and bright.

27 posted on 07/08/2012 6:52:48 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

28 posted on 07/09/2012 4:43:38 AM PDT by SJackson (blow in a dog’s face, he gets mad at you, take him on a car ride; he sticks his head out the window)
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To: NYer; SJackson; ml/nj; wagglebee; Eleutheria5; bmwcyle; ilovesarah2012; Hodar; riri; ...
This article gets its facts wrong deals with a ruling issued by a judge in Germany that prohibits Jews from circumcizing their baby boys: -- the judge was ruling about Moslems. A Moslem couple wanted to get their 4 year old son circumcised and found a Moslem doctor to do so, but there were problems and the kids had to be hospitalized. The case was brought up in front of a judge who ruled that this was done without the child's consent and put him in danger.

This is much more about Moslems

29 posted on 07/09/2012 6:10:52 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Pearls Before Swine
Doberman ear cropping and tail docking?

it's banned in germany, with the exception for working gun dogs, while ear cropping is completely banned

30 posted on 07/09/2012 6:12:57 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos

The article seems bogus, but the judge should be more concerned about the proceedures of performing such an operation on ANYONE (without regard to religion). What were the medical preparations, pre and post-op? Did the “Dr” use a rusty spoon or a schapel? Was there treatment afterwards?

When the Gov’t decides that it is in a better position to raise the kids than the parents are, I question things. The Gov’t can seem to run something as simple as a Post Office without screwing things up.


31 posted on 07/09/2012 8:53:00 PM PDT by Hodar (A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.- Burroughs)
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To: NYer; SJackson; ml/nj; wagglebee; Eleutheria5; bmwcyle; ilovesarah2012; Hodar; riri
Here is a more accurate British story -- well, slightly more accurate. If you read the German press you see that this started when
a Muslim couple decided to have their son circumcised, specifically for religious reasons, by a Muslim doctor in Cologne. The doctor, identified only as Dr K, carried out the circumcision on the four-year old boy in November 2010, before giving the wound four stitches. The same evening, he visited the family at home to check up on the boy. When the boy began bleeding again two days later, his parents took him to the casualty department of Cologne's University hospital. The hospital contacted the police, who then launched an investigation. The doctor was charged with bodily harm, and the case was taken to court.

While the court acquitted Dr. K on the grounds that he had not broken any law, it concluded that circumcision of minors for religious reasons should be outlawed, and that neither parental consent nor religious freedom justified the procedure. It ruled that in future doctors who carried out circumcisions should be punished.

The court weighed up three articles from the basic law: the rights of parents, the freedom of religious practice and the right of the child to physical integrity, before coming to the conclusion that the procedure was not in the interests of the child.

It rejected the defence that circumcision is considered hygienic in many cultures, one of the main reasons it is carried out in the US, Britain and in Germany.

After much deliberation, it concluded that a circumcision, "even when done properly by a doctor with the permission of the parents, should be considered as bodily harm if it is carried out on a boy unable to give his own consent".

It ruled the child's body would be "permanently and irreparably changed", and that this alteration went "against the interests of a child to decide for himself later on to what religion he wishes to belong".
The article here is devious to leave out the Moslem bit and how it was performed on a 4 year old boy causing injuries

in a coldly logical point of view, this is an act conducted on a minor who has no say, but then so is sending the child to school or later putting braces before they are 14, so logical but wrong.

Anyway, my point was simple -- this is not Germany v/s the Jews, but one judge ruling against a Moslem couple. Note that the law is not binding on others

32 posted on 07/09/2012 11:09:33 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: NYer; SJackson; ml/nj; wagglebee; Eleutheria5; bmwcyle; ilovesarah2012; Hodar; riri
about the proceedures of performing such an operation on ANYONE (without regard to religion). What were the medical preparations, pre and post-op? Did the “Dr” use a rusty spoon or a schapel? Was there treatment afterwards?

Probably the doctor didn't -- I don't know, there's not enough information.

33 posted on 07/09/2012 11:10:21 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos

This is judicial activism vs. common sense, though.


34 posted on 07/10/2012 12:55:00 AM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Cronos

Was the kid anesthetized, or did they just hold him down while he squirmed? That might cause some sloppy cutting.


35 posted on 07/10/2012 2:38:44 AM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Eleutheria5

I haven’t any information about the details. All that I have, I posted to you.


36 posted on 07/10/2012 2:41:40 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos
Thanks. I was pretty sure that was where this was rooted. There was a lot of anti-Muslim sentiment when I lived there. Like here, the government only represents the will of a small percentage of leftists. Also like here, a large contingent of the population is willing to be led to the slaughter as long as the "social benefits" keep coming.
37 posted on 07/10/2012 7:36:37 AM PDT by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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