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Churchill, puffing on cigar and wearing dashing aviator glasses while being tailed by the Luftwaffe
Daily Mail ^ | 7-8-12 | Chris Parsons

Posted on 07/08/2012 6:16:40 PM PDT by Dysart

Flight Officer Ron Buck kept back his own pictures from the trip that was later described as the 'Most Daring Flight of the Whole War.'

Churchill had crossed the Atlantic by ship in order to lobby President Roosevelt, but rashly decided to fly home from Bermuda.

With some of his most senior colleagues, the Prime Minister embarked on what was to become a perilous 18 hours flight.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: churchill; godsgravesglyphs; photojournalism; wwii
Several nice old photos at the link.


1 posted on 07/08/2012 6:16:49 PM PDT by Dysart
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To: Dysart

Great photos, but the modern British penchant for focusing upon tangential, prissy descriptions of attire is more jarring than usual. I’m surprised they didn’t nitpick the cut of his blazer or something.


2 posted on 07/08/2012 6:21:10 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Dysart

In his “History of World War II” Churchill mentions several times flying in his B-24 which was an American plane with an American pilot whom Churchill liked.

He also said he often took the co-pilot’s seat and talked with the pilot on trips.

Not sure if that was the same plane on this trip or not.


3 posted on 07/08/2012 6:22:49 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: Dysart

Churchill is my favorite historical figure of all time. Thanks for this.


4 posted on 07/08/2012 6:23:47 PM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: Dysart

The clown in the White House has dreams all the time about Churchill torturing either his father, his grandfather or his uncle. It was one of them. Or it may have been someone that one of them knew. Barry’s dreams aren’t very clear.


5 posted on 07/08/2012 6:24:13 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Help reduce voter fraud in America! If you see something, say something!)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Barry’s dreams aren’t very clear.

Well what do you want from a composite?


6 posted on 07/08/2012 6:25:34 PM PDT by al baby (Hi Mom)
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To: Dysart

Just went back and read the whole story. It was a flying boat he was on that trip.


7 posted on 07/08/2012 6:27:55 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: Dysart; SunkenCiv

Thank you for posting-fascinating.

SC—just a general interest ping to you for the history.


8 posted on 07/08/2012 6:29:02 PM PDT by exit82
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To: yarddog

Churchill was himself a pilot.


9 posted on 07/08/2012 6:29:55 PM PDT by buridan
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To: Dysart
"Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."

-- Winston Churchill


10 posted on 07/08/2012 6:32:12 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (A Choice, not an Etch-A-Sketch. TomHoefling.com)
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To: Dysart

Very modern flight deck. Notice the finishing of the overhead.


11 posted on 07/08/2012 6:37:12 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("Ambition Without Talent Is Sad - Talent Without Ambition Is Worse")
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To: Dysart
Good evening.

An 18 hour flight? Must have spent a lot of time partying in Bermuda.

5.56mm

12 posted on 07/08/2012 6:45:30 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: SkyDancer

Beats the plastic and too small piece of fiberglass mat for insulation these days.


13 posted on 07/08/2012 6:47:00 PM PDT by Errant
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To: Dysart

BFL


14 posted on 07/08/2012 6:49:11 PM PDT by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
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To: Dysart
It is practically guaranteed that it was not (just) water in the gentleman's glass.

Churchill had calmly faced death so many times in the Royal Hussars in India and the Sudan, as a war correspondent in Cuba and S. Africa, and in the trenches of WWI after retiring from the Admiralty following the Gallipoli disaster that for him this must have been just another excursion to the edge. A risk taker and a real man.

15 posted on 07/08/2012 6:51:09 PM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: Dysart
My dad told me a story when Winston Churchill was almost
shot down in his flying boat by US Anti-aircraft Artillery
near Long Island Sound early in the war.

16 posted on 07/08/2012 6:56:04 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: yarddog

From the article, it was the Boeing Clipper flying boat RAM ‘Berwick’.


17 posted on 07/08/2012 7:05:12 PM PDT by Errant
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To: katana
It is practically guaranteed that it was not (just) water in the gentleman's glass."

Well the still full water glass is the one next to the sugar bowl at the right. Notice well the two empty glasses at the left with a small amount of darker liquid at the bottoms. Note also the ripple in the table covering like an outgoing tide as the empties were pushed to the side. Odd thing that the glasses are progressively less wide, with the narrowest in his hand. Teacup dismissed to stand against the wall.

IIRC Sir Winston retired each night of the war with a bottle of brandy and a cigar.

BTW as I understand it colonial officers never mixed spirits with unreliable local water.

18 posted on 07/08/2012 7:11:18 PM PDT by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: Dysart
The "Berwick."


19 posted on 07/08/2012 7:18:47 PM PDT by Errant
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To: yarddog

I can tell by the control wheel that it is indeed a B-24 or the transport version called a c-87.


20 posted on 07/08/2012 7:20:16 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: yarddog

I can tell by the control wheel that it is indeed a B-24 or the transport version called a c-87.I stand corrected.The control wheel looks similar to the B-24 but I am wrong it is a Boeing flying boat.


21 posted on 07/08/2012 7:24:25 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: katana

Yes indeed, a risk taker and a real man. He drank like a fish, smoked like a chimney, ate what he wanted when he wanted, was in all manner of death defying situations, and lived to be 91. Well done Mr. Churchill!


22 posted on 07/08/2012 7:26:10 PM PDT by HerrBlucher ("The cross opens its arms to the four winds; it is a signpost for free travelers." GK Chesterton)
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To: Dysart

I’m getting pretty old and have read every book written by or about Churchill that I can find, including the superb Last Lion books by Wm. Manchester. I wish he, Churchill, had written more. He is one of my heros. The other is Ronald Reagan (renewed my Navy after the disaster that was Carter).

Everyone should read Churchill’s History of WWII. He said that history would treat him well, because he was going to write it. We will never again see his equal.


23 posted on 07/08/2012 7:27:51 PM PDT by Afterguard
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To: Afterguard

Churchill was certainly a character.

Don’t forget he was 1/2 American and his Mother was 1/8 American Indian making him far more native American than Ward Churchill.


24 posted on 07/08/2012 7:35:06 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: Errant
Apparently a Berwick is a Boeing 314 operated by BOAC -

Some more info here, including the fact Churchill learned to fly in 1913 -

http://taylorempireairways.com/tag/flying-boats/

25 posted on 07/08/2012 7:38:40 PM PDT by az_gila
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To: Dysart

A man with definite class and b@!!$ compared to that pansy in the W.H.


26 posted on 07/08/2012 7:42:02 PM PDT by CORedneck
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To: Errant
Your pic is better than mine...:^)

Yours the same aircraft as in the Mail article pictures - registration G-AGCA

27 posted on 07/08/2012 7:42:59 PM PDT by az_gila
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To: CORedneck
A man with definite class and b@!!$ compared to that pansy in the W.H.

That's why Ought-Bama had to return the bust of Churchill to the Brits. He couldn't stand being glared at by his superior.

28 posted on 07/08/2012 7:51:30 PM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: az_gila
It's a massive thing. I can see why Churchhill had a grin. lol I also can't help but wonder how much high octane was consumed in eighteen hours by either himself or the Clipper!

Thanks,

29 posted on 07/08/2012 7:52:18 PM PDT by Errant
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To: yarddog
In his correspondences with Roosevelt that are published in that history, Churchill was fond of referring to himself as, "Former Naval Person"...
30 posted on 07/08/2012 8:12:36 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: Errant

Sir Winston is one of my heroes & now that I’m retired I will find time to read his histories of Western Civilization. Admire his personal style too, he ignored his doctors’ scoldings & lived to a ripe old age (if I live another 28 years I’ll equal his record).

Didn’t know `Winnie’ was an aficionado of the Boeing 314 Clipper; read all about that model as a kid & not one has survived. One magnificent aircraft & one magnificent man, both belong to another time when giants still walked the Earth.


31 posted on 07/08/2012 8:17:50 PM PDT by elcid1970 (Nuke Mecca now. Death to Islam means freedom for all mankind. Deus vult!")
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To: elcid1970
both belong to another time when giants still walked the Earth.

Indeed, well said! The decline is steepening, but one has to believe there is yet hope.

Nigel Farage's Amazing Escape

Who the Hell do You Think You Are?

32 posted on 07/08/2012 9:03:15 PM PDT by Errant
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To: Disambiguator
He couldn't stand being glared at by his superior.

Why hasn't he fired the White House janitor.

33 posted on 07/08/2012 9:04:07 PM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class!)
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To: Dysart

In the second photo, he looks like Arnold Palmer!


34 posted on 07/08/2012 9:09:37 PM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class!)
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: Covenantor
Well the still full water glass is the one next to the sugar bowl at the right. Notice well the two empty glasses at the left with a small amount of darker liquid at the bottoms. Note also the ripple in the table covering like an outgoing tide as the empties were pushed to the side. Odd thing that the glasses are progressively less wide, with the narrowest in his hand. Teacup dismissed to stand against the wall.

IIRC Sir Winston retired each night of the war with a bottle of brandy and a cigar.

I must assure you that neither brandy nor whiskey (Scotch) were in those glasses. A man such as Churchill would never drink good whiskey nor Brandy from a water glass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it were in the evening I would be most surprised if it were not good brandy or whiskey. However it would be in a brandy glass or a whiskey glass. Never would it be a glass for water!!!

37 posted on 07/08/2012 10:00:55 PM PDT by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Mud Man, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist. THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR!)
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To: Afterguard

If you haven’t seen it already, The Gathering Storm, with Albert Finney as Churchill is one of the best movies I’ve seen in the past few years.


38 posted on 07/08/2012 10:11:23 PM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: Dysart

Interesting story. Thanks for posting.

http://taylorempireairways.com/2010/03/pm-churchill-flying-boac-b314/


39 posted on 07/08/2012 10:45:24 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: Afterguard
I wish he, Churchill, had written more.

What? A six volume history of the Second World War, four volumes of his biography of Marlborough, four volumes of A History of the English-Speaking Peoples, the great "While England Slept", "The River War", over 30 other books, dozens of newspaper and magazine articles and hundreds of speeches, a Nobel Prize in literature, and you dare demand more of the poor man? You're mad, fellow. Not since Julius Caesar has a world leader been such a prolific and accomplished writer, and I doubt we will ever see his like again.

40 posted on 07/08/2012 11:57:52 PM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: yarddog
The Boeing 314 (aka “China Clipper”) was a flying boat. The Convair B-24 “Liberator” was a land based bomber. The only superficial recognition point was the four radial engines that powered them. Otherwise, both were as different as apples to oranges.

Churchill's personal plane was an LB-30 (export version) of the B-24 and was called Liberator II by the British. Eventually 87 LB-30s served in the RAF. Churchill's personal LB-30 was named “Commando”.

The Liberator II was the first version of the B-24 to feature the lengthened nose that would become standard on all later aircraft. This extension, which increased the length of the aircraft from 63ft 9in to 66ft 4in, was originally made for purely aesthetic reasons, but as the war developed, and the amount of equipment carried on aircraft increased, the extra space proved to be very valuable.

The Liberator II was powered by commercial Pratt & Whitney R-1830-S3C4-G engines. These engines lacked the turbosuperchargers used on USAAF B-24 aircraft. The P&W engines turned Curtiss Electric propellers (longer propeller hubs) than the more common, shorter hubs, of the Hamilton-Standard propellers found on the B-24.

In RAF service, the LB-30 carried 14 .303-inch machine guns: one in the nose, one in a tunnel hatch, two in each waist position, and four each in Boulton-Paul power operated tail and dorsal turrets.

41 posted on 07/09/2012 1:14:09 AM PDT by MasterGunner01 (11)
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To: TXnMA

I remember seeing that in all those books. I never could figure out which one was “Former naval person” as it could easily have been either one.


42 posted on 07/09/2012 7:50:58 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: MasterGunner01; yarddog
One of the great things about FR is the in-depth knowledge of folks who have a special interest in a subject -- and their willingness to share it when that subject arises. Thanks for the info on the B-24 variants!

IIRC, the B-24 and the China Clipper shared the same wing design (and its high placement, which, of course, was ideal for a flying boat)...

Otherwise, as you say, "apples to oranges"...

43 posted on 07/09/2012 9:22:58 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: exit82

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks exit82. Pretty neat.

Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


44 posted on 07/09/2012 3:16:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: M Kehoe; SkyDancer; Dysart
my dad flew 15 - 17 hour flights out of Guam to Japan and back. Those are long hours in a plane.

They watched their fuel like a hawk, knowing there was no room for error. By the time they'd get to their hardstand the engines would be fuel starved.

45 posted on 07/10/2012 4:22:23 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Where Liberty dwells, there is my Country. - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: TXnMA
The Davis wing design was very efficient and was a good heavy lifter for these large aircraft. I am continually amazed by the advanced technology of the airplanes of 1930s.
46 posted on 07/10/2012 8:32:27 AM PDT by MasterGunner01 (11)
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