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If Not Now . . .
Red State ^ | Monday July 9, 2012 | Erick Erickson

Posted on 07/09/2012 9:13:14 AM PDT by Bigtigermike

Despite making clear that I was not advocating a third party, but rather recognizing that one will spring up if the Republican leadership does not pay attention to the state of its own party, many not only assumed wrongly my advocacy, but resorted to the worn out argument of the Republican leaders over several generations — we must fight the Democrats first” or the variant “the top priority is beating Barack Obama.”

The problem with this argument is it never ends. How many more trillion dollars must we add to the national debt before the “wait and focus on the other side first” crowd wakes up to what they have enabled?

When George Bush decided to pass Ted Kennedy’s No Child Left Behind plan as his own, conservatives were told they needed to rally and help the President, given his victory while losing the popular vote. We needed unity.

After steel tariffs for Pennsylvania, “hush,” we were told because we were trying to set the stage for a re-election.

Then came the prescription drug benefit and we better not challenge the President because … 9/11 … patriotism … build the party.

He nominated Harriet Miers and more than half the conservative establishment beclowned themselves standing with him.

Then came immigration reform and those who disagreed from the right were racists. Solidarity!

TARP . . . the General Motors bailout . . . still Republicans told Republicans we couldn’t hold our own side accountable because we needed to fight the left “and oh my goodness litmus tests!!!!!”

Earmarks? “Litmus tests!!!!” and “pshaw, they’re just a little teeny-tiny piece of the budget.”

That was some time around $10 trillion in national debt.

Then the GOP began cutting deals with Barack Obama. “Trust them,” others said, “they have a plan.” The tea party led them to victory and the tea party congressmen started voting just like their leadership. The debt ceiling increased, spending expanded, Pledge to Nowhere pledges were breached, and still we hear “we have to fight the other side first.”

And then there was the Senate variant, “Oh Mitch McConnell had to do that or else Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins and . . . and . . . and . . .”

Friends, at what point do we hold our side accountable? $20 trillion in debt? $50 trillion in debt? Contrary to what some of you want to think, it was not the Democrats who got us to $16 trillion in national debt. It was bipartisan. Some of it legitimate, much of it not, and all to the tune of “let’s focus on the Democrats instead. They’re the real bad guys here.”

The leaders of the GOP give lip service to smaller government but just last week shut down legitimate private businesses to feed the leviathan more tax revenue. Republicans in the House of Representatives are now urging candidates not to sign the ATR tax pledge and Republicans in the Senate are cutting deals that will boost revenue because — deficits. And still they add to the debt.

So if not now, when? Not until we’re all speaking Chinese apparently.

If the conservative movement cannot fight on two fronts, we’re screwed. But some of you will be okay with that as long as its an elephant and not a donkey screwing you.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: gopelites; obama; romney; teaparty

1 posted on 07/09/2012 9:13:19 AM PDT by Bigtigermike
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To: Bigtigermike

The performance of Mittens RINOmney this fall will determine whether I ever vote Republican again.

Of course, I’ll never vote dim-bulb-cratic...will have to hope and pray for real conservative party...or join the new weather underground and do to Ayers and his slut what they tried to do to my military associates.


2 posted on 07/09/2012 9:20:21 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: Bigtigermike

Our house is on fire...use the hose or build a shiny new truck? This dumbass idea of letting Obama waltz into another term is so F*&^*&^g stupid it should be obvious to the dumbest brick on the pile. Sorry, this might be a good argument if we weren’t down to our last round.

This country will not survive another four years of this coup.

Mobilize. think 2012, act 2016 if you must, but don’t put six rounds in the chamber to play your stupid game of Russian roulette with MY America, not now. OK Erik?


3 posted on 07/09/2012 9:20:51 AM PDT by jessduntno ("Newt Gingrich was part of the Reagan Revolution's Murderers' Row." - Jeffrey Lord, Reagan Admin.)
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To: Bigtigermike
I've been pondering this blog that someone sent to me the other day. While I don't agree with everything he says, its a little hard to deny some obvious truths.

President Obama thinks he can get away with anything. I’m starting to agree, and the reason for my agreement is the tepid, inept spinelessness of those in the “opposition” party. If you’re waiting to hear somebody mistake John Boehner and Mitch McConnell for actual men, I hope you brought some light reading and a couple bologna sandwiches.

Are Conservatives Slipping To The ‘Dark Side’?

Fear isn't enough anymore.
4 posted on 07/09/2012 9:21:31 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: jessduntno

Not a popular opinion here on FR but I agree completely.


5 posted on 07/09/2012 9:24:30 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (My dog, yes. My wife, maybe. My gun....NEVER!)
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To: Bigtigermike
"but rather recognizing that one will spring up if the Republican leadership does not pay attention to the state of its own party, "\

Bush, who couldn't hear the trade job sucking sound, gave us Perot and Perot gave us Clinton. The GOP needs hearing aids.

6 posted on 07/09/2012 9:29:34 AM PDT by ex-snook (without forgivness there is no Christianity)
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To: jessduntno
This is what Mark Levin said about a third party last Tuesday,

Listen at the 1hr30min to 1hr43min mark
7 posted on 07/09/2012 9:30:31 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: jessduntno
This dumbass idea of letting Obama waltz into another term is so F*&^*&^g stupid it should be obvious to the dumbest brick on the pile.

The Obama propaganda machine (Soros) is just clipping along with single issue or truly 'useful idiots' biting at every turn of a phrase about conservatives or Republicans.....these nits say they will not vote for Romney....sooooo, they are going to vote for Obama? There ain't anyone else other than write ins....either way Obama wins.

Like M.R. or not, either get on the same page or Obama wins.

8 posted on 07/09/2012 9:35:21 AM PDT by yoe (Proud to be part of the Tea Party movement.....!!!!!)
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To: jessduntno

“...don’t put six rounds in the chamber to play your stupid game of Russian roulette with MY America, not now. OK Erik?”

I don’t think that Erik’s idea is stupid at all. I think he’s suggesting that after the upcoming election we should consider an alternative to business as usual (because that’s not working)! It’s not unheard of in our nation’s history. We ought not be paralyzed by fear of doing something different for a change; not for the sake of change but because it’s necessary.


9 posted on 07/09/2012 9:42:25 AM PDT by old school
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To: Bigtigermike

We need a whole new Senate, and a stronger House. Of course, the biggest enemies of this country in D.C. have the screwiest constituents and theres no way to get rid of these politicians(by ballot box anyway) other than the grim reaper deciding they’ve been around long enough.


10 posted on 07/09/2012 9:44:38 AM PDT by crosshairs
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To: old school
“...don’t put six rounds in the chamber to play your stupid game of Russian roulette with MY America, not now. OK Erik?”

It feels like this country is playing Russian roulette with a semi-automatic, rather than a revolver.
11 posted on 07/09/2012 9:46:33 AM PDT by crosshairs
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To: Perdogg

Mark Levin does his part but he’s not the guidon bearer. He’s a contributor to the dialog but he can’t do your thinking for you. We are at liberty to disagree with him, no matter his depth of erudition.


12 posted on 07/09/2012 9:49:47 AM PDT by old school
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To: Bigtigermike
The problem with this argument is it never ends. How many more trillion dollars must we add to the national debt before the “wait and focus on the other side first” crowd wakes up to what they have enabled?

They know what they enable. It's just that they are too lazy, spoiled, and selfish to do anything except vote on the appointed day. Anything else might take some effort, possibly some sacrifice.

13 posted on 07/09/2012 9:58:02 AM PDT by Lady Lucky (If you believe what you're saying, quit making taxable income.)
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To: Da Coyote
The performance of Mittens RINOmney this fall will determine whether I ever vote Republican again.

Suuuuurrrrre it will.

If you'd vote for Mitt Romney, you'd vote for anybody. Even Rudy Giuliani is to the right of Mitt Romney.

14 posted on 07/09/2012 10:04:01 AM PDT by Lady Lucky (If you believe what you're saying, quit making taxable income.)
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To: crosshairs

At the moment, we haven’t the organization to compete but we have to create such an organization, to support onservative candidates (not Republicans)for office. The republican party leadership exists to perpetuate itself and is an impediment to conservatism. A takeover of the Republican party by conservatives is a pipe dream! We have to run “credible” conservative candidates, who come from among ourselves (not party apparatchiks).


15 posted on 07/09/2012 10:06:30 AM PDT by old school
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To: old school

“We ought not be paralyzed by fear of doing something different for a change; not for the sake of change but because it’s necessary.”

Like I said; mobilize. think 2012, act 2016 if you must, but don’t put six rounds in the chamber to play your stupid game of Russian roulette with MY America, not now. OK Erik? Our house is on fire. Let’s build a new fire station once we get the fire out.


16 posted on 07/09/2012 10:14:10 AM PDT by jessduntno ("Newt Gingrich was part of the Reagan Revolution's Murderers' Row." - Jeffrey Lord, Reagan Admin.)
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To: Lady Lucky

you got that right....

I will be at the polls on voting day ( along with maybe just over half the voting population, but that is another thread ) and I will vote for any conservative on the ballot.

If a conservative cannot be found for a particular office among the republican or democrat ticket, I will look at the libertarian or constitution party ticket for that particular office.

since 1988 we have been fed a line of losers that DESPISE conservatives ( yes GWB was one of these people )...

mcpain was the camel that broke my straw back..

just how bad is it? The people on this very site could not decide who was a conservative this last primary season. Most here choose to vote for an at best big government moderate that stabbed conservatives in the back ( yes, I am speaking of santorum )

I buy into the republican party platform. The problem is the republicans do not buy into their own party platform. Give ‘em the power and they spend like drunken sailors. They regulate like drunken sailors.

And they do NOTHING to roll back the steady march of socialism... NOTHING!!!!

Name me one rollback, just one.....

There is an old saying, screw me once, shame on you. screw me twice, shame on me....

we been getting screwed since 1988 for christs sake!!! 1988!!!

for those that cannot add, that is 24 YEARS!!!!!!

There are those that laugh at the libs getting their daily talking points from the msm...

what do you think AM radio is??

Shut off the AM radio and start to think for yourself... but this comes with a warning...

once you do this, your eyes will open up, and you will begin to see things as they are, not how some radio host tells you they are...

It will be both liberating and frightening at the same time


17 posted on 07/09/2012 10:26:52 AM PDT by joe fonebone (I am the 15%)
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To: jessduntno

I agree. Put-out the fire, we must! But, I’m sick of the Republican party. I’ve never been a registered Republican and have usually voted Republican but never for any member of the subversive, alternative. However, soon we may have to rely on canned goods and ammo cans, if we don’t get this sh#t right!


18 posted on 07/09/2012 10:33:51 AM PDT by old school
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To: joe fonebone

4 more years, again. Same old crap.

Actually someone pointed out the hypocrisy of the so called “moderate” supporters over here in post number 53. They aren’t going to vote for any filthy conservative but we’re the ones who come under fire for pointing out GOP flaws.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2903940/posts?q=1&;page=51

Face it kids, despite a few conservative representatives, the GOP is a “moderate” party at best.


19 posted on 07/09/2012 10:36:02 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Bigtigermike

Just quit voting for liberals!

Romney and Obama are both liberals.


20 posted on 07/09/2012 10:36:07 AM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: Lady Lucky
Are you saying ABR, that is, anyone but Romney?

21 posted on 07/09/2012 10:58:50 AM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: Bigtigermike
So if not now, when? Not until we’re all speaking Chinese apparently.

Actually we're all speaking Greek....
22 posted on 07/09/2012 11:04:13 AM PDT by Tzimisce (THIS SUCKS)
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To: Tau Food
Regardless of what you do or don't do either Obama or Romney will be the next POTUS. Who do you prefer it is?

It' a simple and direct question, please don't change its premise.


23 posted on 07/09/2012 11:06:08 AM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: I see my hands

Neither.


24 posted on 07/09/2012 11:09:40 AM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: Bigtigermike

The GOP-e knows where the power now lies, and they will do anything it takes to share in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxveOb00LaA

We’ve been played, Romney as the nominee and how that was forced on us is all the evidence required to understand this truth.

Obama was not elected a dictator. He was handed everything needed to assume that role by the generous help of those who gave us Romney. The very ones in leadership that somehow a majority of people think is our only salvation to stop Obama.

They’re working together people - the GOP-e AND Obama. The Ruling Class knows where the power is going to lie when this MarxoFascist coup is completed, and they will do - and are doing everything needed to share in it.

You and me - duped into continuing to play their game in order to deceive ourselves from looking at what time it really is.


25 posted on 07/09/2012 11:25:10 AM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Tau Food
Don't be a liar nor pretend to be that stupid.

Regardless of what you do or don't do either Obama or Romney will be the next POTUS. Who do you prefer it is?

It' a simple and direct question, please don't change its premise.


26 posted on 07/09/2012 11:26:21 AM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: Bigtigermike
But some of you will be okay with that as long as its an elephant and not a donkey screwing you.

Yup. That's right.

A year from now after Obama's been reelected the same folks whining about Republicans will still be whining about the EPA run amok, Bammy bypassing the constitution, a complicit media, blah, blah, blah. He's right. It never ends. Some folks are just stuck on stupid.

27 posted on 07/09/2012 11:31:54 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Congrats to Ted Kennedy! He's been sober for two years now!!)
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To: Perdogg

This is what Mark Levin said about a third party last Tuesday,

Listen at the 1hr30min to 1hr43min mark

That’s why he’s the Great One....


28 posted on 07/09/2012 11:58:06 AM PDT by jessduntno ("Newt Gingrich was part of the Reagan Revolution's Murderers' Row." - Jeffrey Lord, Reagan Admin.)
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To: I see my hands

let’s rephrase this little question of yours...

do you back socialism?

do you support socialism?

simple questions, yes or no answer is all that is required.


29 posted on 07/09/2012 12:23:25 PM PDT by joe fonebone (I am the 15%)
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To: Bigtigermike

You have to also win an election. If you can’t even find a candidate who can win in the Republican party I guess all you’re left with is a clean concience. Find a winner in the Republican party is still the best bet.


30 posted on 07/09/2012 12:29:29 PM PDT by bkepley
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To: joe fonebone
No. No. Now answer mine.

Don't give me a "then..." and tell me all the things that are wrong with Romney. I already know as does everyone on this board. You have no special knowledge. You have no unique insight.

Regardless of what you do or don't do either Obama or Romney will be the next POTUS. Who do you prefer it is?

It' a simple and direct question, please don't change its premise.


31 posted on 07/09/2012 12:45:00 PM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: Perdogg
This woman actually was better than even Levin . She guest hosted on Hannity. Amazing monologue:

http://www.hannity.com/videos/?uri=channels/400391/1681628

32 posted on 07/09/2012 12:48:09 PM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 4 years.China is destroying U.S. ability to manufacture,makes everything)
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To: Bigtigermike

Never.

Like the OWS crowd , we’d rather bitch about the status then create change.

We will never build a 3rd party.


33 posted on 07/09/2012 2:48:42 PM PDT by NoLibZone (We must get down on our knees each day and thank God that McCain/Palin didn't win in '08. Right?)
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To: joe fonebone

Dole Rejects a Party Plank
August 24, 1996

Publicly repudiating a portion of his party’s platform for the first time since the Republican National Convention, Bob Dole told a convention of black journalists here today that he would not support a constitutional amendment to deny automatic citizenship for children who are born in this country to illegal immigrants.

Mr. Dole, who made no secret at the convention that he had not yet read the entire platform, implied today that he had now given it a more thorough review and did not like everything he saw, including the proposed immigration amendment.

‘’I have due respect for the platform,’’ Mr. Dole said. ‘’I read a lot of parts that I thought were essential. I approved of a lot of parts that I thought were essential. That was not one of them.’’

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/08/24/us/dole-rejects-a-party-plank.html


34 posted on 07/09/2012 2:53:16 PM PDT by donna (Mitt quote: ...gay couples raising kids. That's the American way...)
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To: I see my hands

OK... I’ll bite on your question..

If it is going to be either “A” or “B”, I choose “C”

None of the above

a legitimate answer to a legitimate question..

Now, do you support socialism, yes or no..


35 posted on 07/10/2012 4:19:06 AM PDT by joe fonebone (I am the 15%)
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To: I see my hands

OK... I’ll bite on your question..

If it is going to be either “A” or “B”, I choose “C”

None of the above

a legitimate answer to a legitimate question..


36 posted on 07/10/2012 4:19:27 AM PDT by joe fonebone (I am the 15%)
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To: joe fonebone
It will be Romney or Obama, there is no 'none of the above', fool.

37 posted on 07/10/2012 8:27:22 AM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: jessduntno
I created this graphic based on your assessment:

38 posted on 07/10/2012 9:01:23 AM PDT by Lucky9teen (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.~Thomas Jeffer)
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To: I see my hands

I guess i have to yell...

I SUPPORT NEITHER ONE... I WILL NOT CAST MY BALLOT FOR A SOCIALIST, NOT NOW, NOT EVER... I DO NOT GIVE A DAMN WHAT LETTER COMES AFTER THEIR NAME.. SOCIALISM IS THE ENEMY OF THE REPUBLIC... IF YOU SUPPORT EITHER ONE YOU SUPPORT SOCIALISM... PERIOD..

now comes the part where you tell me your socialist is better than their socialist..

I am not a fool and do not appreciate the name calling.. now take your alinsky tactics elsewhere..


39 posted on 07/10/2012 9:20:30 AM PDT by joe fonebone (I am the 15%)
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To: joe fonebone
Not telling you who to vote for or whether to vote or not. I didn't even post to you, you insinuated yourself and asked me questions I answered.

Either Romney or Obama will be the next POTUS, who do you prefer it be?


40 posted on 07/10/2012 9:26:33 AM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: I see my hands

It’s like alchemy. If you try to force reality down these peoples’ throat, they continuously vomit up fantasy.


41 posted on 07/10/2012 9:27:37 AM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: Hegewisch Dupa; I see my hands
It’s like alchemy. If you try to force reality down these peoples’ throat, they continuously vomit up fantasy.

"I see my hands" tried to force me to state a preference between Romney and Obama a day or two ago. He or she wasn't happy when I responded "Neither."

Since "I see my hands" supports Romney, he or she seems unable to accept the "reality" that many conservatives find both Romney and Obama to be so totally unacceptable as to create an attitude of indifference. Both Romney and Obama are so repulsive that I cannot choose between them. Romney supporters should try to come to terms with that "reality" because it will be one of the most important reasons for Romney's defeat this year.

42 posted on 07/10/2012 9:54:24 AM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: Tau Food
"Since "I see my hands" supports Romney"

Stinking low IQ liar.


43 posted on 07/10/2012 9:59:55 AM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: I see my hands

All these Onanistic “conservatives” have to defend with is lies.


44 posted on 07/10/2012 10:05:03 AM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: Hegewisch Dupa
"Onanistic"

They fancy stroking their pride while in the throes of petulance somehow equals principle.


45 posted on 07/10/2012 10:15:21 AM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: I see my hands

You have a most excellent way with words


46 posted on 07/10/2012 11:30:42 AM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: Hegewisch Dupa; I see my hands
Now listen, you two, don't go all to pieces. Don't take so personally my rejection of Romney.

I rejected your candidate. I didn't reject you.

47 posted on 07/10/2012 12:31:36 PM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: Lucky9teen

Romney doesn’t have that weak a stream does he?
He’s still a young man.


48 posted on 07/10/2012 1:24:18 PM PDT by jessduntno ("Newt Gingrich was part of the Reagan Revolution's Murderers' Row." - Jeffrey Lord, Reagan Admin.)
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To: Hegewisch Dupa
Tau Food just spilled his seed. Apparently his eyes-closed notion that anyone would be personally affected by his rejection took him over the top.

49 posted on 07/10/2012 2:48:00 PM PDT by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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