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Maybe We Really Do Need a Third Party
Red State ^ | 7/9/2012 | Erick Erickson

Posted on 07/09/2012 1:20:40 PM PDT by IbJensen

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The entire political situation is sickening. The lack of intestinal fortitude on the part of the damned Repblicans is enough to make honest conservatives want to puke.

Mitch McConnell stands in front of the cameras and microphones to state that the 2,700 page death edict known as Obozocare is too big to bring down. I aave said before that firing every employee whose job it is to implement this garbage, tear out their phones, take away their cell phones, ipads and credit cards, sell the furnishings and declare this monstrosity dead before it finishes the job of killing the nation and its inhabitants.

1 posted on 07/09/2012 1:20:47 PM PDT by IbJensen
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To: IbJensen

I’d settle for a distinct second party.


2 posted on 07/09/2012 1:22:35 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1265 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: IbJensen

I think Ann Coulter got it right (again) when she was talking about one of the underhanded things the democrats were doing. She said, “The Democrats are evil, but they’re not stupid. That’s us.”


3 posted on 07/09/2012 1:27:35 PM PDT by wolfpat (Not to know what has been transacted in former times is to be always a child. -- Cicero)
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To: IbJensen

I’m more inclined to think the Democrats need to split into two parties. The other one could be called the Occupy Party.


4 posted on 07/09/2012 1:28:24 PM PDT by pallis
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To: IbJensen

The rate things are going, the GOP will be a third party.


5 posted on 07/09/2012 1:29:54 PM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: null and void

“I’d settle for a distinct second party.”

Well said....er...written.


6 posted on 07/09/2012 1:30:15 PM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: IbJensen

We cannot have one until a real majority is required for election.


7 posted on 07/09/2012 1:31:42 PM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: IbJensen

The First American Republic is dead. Died some time ago. It will take CWII to establish a Second American Republic.


8 posted on 07/09/2012 1:31:53 PM PDT by Noumenon (I will not pay the Obama jizya.)
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To: IbJensen

Agreed!


9 posted on 07/09/2012 1:32:21 PM PDT by mongo141 (Revolution ver. 2.0, just a matter of when, not a matter of if!)
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To: Noumenon

“The First American Republic is dead. Died some time ago. It will take CWII to establish a Second American Republic.”

___

Agreed!


10 posted on 07/09/2012 1:34:46 PM PDT by mongo141 (Revolution ver. 2.0, just a matter of when, not a matter of if!)
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To: IbJensen

The silent majority need only take over one of the parties and allow the country club rinos go away with cristine todd whitman into her third party.

I agree though that there is a serious lack of AMERICAN leadership in the republic party. We only have managers and manipulators, no leaders.


11 posted on 07/09/2012 1:35:26 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: IbJensen
Photobucket
12 posted on 07/09/2012 1:44:25 PM PDT by GraceG
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To: longtermmemmory

” - - - The silent majority need only take over one of the parties and allow the country club rinos go away - - - “

That is the plan.

Third parties cannot win as long as the winner is determined by a plurality.

If the laws were changed so that 50 % plus one vote determined the winner then the third party would have a chance.

Thus, it is much more effective to just boot out the RINOs and run the Republican Party the way it should be run, come 2014.


13 posted on 07/09/2012 1:46:58 PM PDT by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
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To: longtermmemmory

You say: “The silent majority need only take over one of the parties and allow the country club rinos go away....”

So are you a precinct delegate? I am but sadly not enough TEA partiers took action on this logical solution in my opinion.


14 posted on 07/09/2012 1:47:24 PM PDT by tunedin
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To: longtermmemmory
All the major parties (there are 2 of them) are made up of various interest groups and segments of society and the economy. They are coalitions. Their purpose is to compete to win elections in single member districts.

In examining the Republican party it started out as a pretty clear coalition of Liberty Interests and Business Interests.

The Civil War came along. They won. The coalitions reassembled themselves and once Grant's Administration was passed on into history, we start with "modern times".

Currently two new interest groups ~ one called the Mittbots and another called the GoP-e have consorted together to subvert the Republican party and take it away from its historic bottom up control structure.

It is our job to stop them, and then REMOVE them from the Republican party. They are better off among their own kind in the Democrat party ~

15 posted on 07/09/2012 1:49:11 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: tunedin

We need one but not THIS election...

(Look for someone to try and use the old “divide and conquer” strategy though—financed by the other side...)


16 posted on 07/09/2012 1:49:11 PM PDT by CondorFlight (I)
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To: IbJensen

This episode PERFECTLY illustrates EVERYTHING that the people have come to loathe and detest about Congress.

- Important change affecting many people slipped-in quietly at the last minute and attached to an unrelated bill on a Friday heading into a holiday.

- Change has never been subject to a full debate or public comment period.

- Powerful interests with vested financial interests are involved in actually writing the bill as well as lobbying for it.

- Details contained within the bill itself are at a Monty Python level of absurd (customers who sit and roll their own smokes on a borrowed machine are MANUFACTURERS???)

- Bill it is attached to is loaded with so much pork it attracts votes from all sides of the aisle.

- Congressional weasel who pulled this off WILL NOT EVEN RETURN PHONE CALLS seeking comment (quoted in many news accounts).

- Small businessmen put out of business, some financially ruined, by what Congress has done.

If smokers don’t spend every last dime they can spare to defeat Max Baucus the next time his seat is up then they deserve whatever is headed their way next.


17 posted on 07/09/2012 1:51:46 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: IbJensen
If you live in a solidly Blue state, you should vote for the Green Party candidate.

If the first third party to gain credence is a leftwing one, then that will siphon votes away from the Democrats.

If the Green Party gets big enough, we can then think about starting a bonafide conservative party to threaten the Republicans with similar ballot box competition if they refuse to abide by their platform.

18 posted on 07/09/2012 1:53:53 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: IbJensen; onyx; trisham; TheOldLady; DJ MacWoW; JoeProBono; RedMDer; musicman; Lady Jag; MEG33; ...

When both parties run abortionist/homosexualist statists, we have NO choice at all. It’s like a communist state one party election! Soros must be very pleased. Damn the statist parties!!

When the Chief Justice of the United States formally throws out the constitutional limits on government, we no longer have a constitutional republic!!

And this guy is supposedly a constitutionalist conservative appointed by a Republican president.

When we have a godless abortionist/homosexualist STATIST sitting in the White House and a godless abortionist/homosexualist STATIST congress under Reid and Pelosi throwing out all the longstanding congressional rules and ramming blatantly unconstitutional STATIST programs through congress over the objections of we the people and then we have the Chief Justice of the United States stamp his approval on it, we, my friends are in seriously deep doo-doo.

Our constitutional republic has been effectively dissolved before our very eyes and effectively dissolved by our own supposedly conservative Republican party!!

And now our supposedly conservative Republican party chooses to run a blatantly abortionist/homosexualist STATIST candidate for president??

C’mon, folks, give me a break!! Romney is the STATIST idiot who rammed the STATIST RomneyCare program through in Massachusetts and that directly morphed into ObamaCare and then Chief Justice Roberts knifed us all in the back and single-handily brought down our constitutional Republic!!

All of our enemies and the communists over the years could not conquer America by war or threat of war but the enemy within brought us down. And we are now being asked to sanction with our sacred vote the very STATIST idiot who made the loss of our beloved Republic possible?

NOT ON MY WATCH!!

FUMR!! FUKR!! FUGOP-e!! FUBO!! (FU = freep you)

No way in hell will I ever cast my vote for a known STATIST idiot like Romney!!

Statism - the theory or practice of concentrating economic and political power in the state, resulting in a weak position for the individual or community with respect to the government

Long live the grass roots tea party rebellion!! Long live the Republic!! Long live Liberty!!


19 posted on 07/09/2012 1:54:28 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Graewoulf
Doesn't matter how you do the cut off for winners, eventually you need to have 50%+1 to win, and that's what the parties get organized around.

Think about this ~ let's say you set winning at 35% ~ and a coalition party was formed around the idea they could get 35% and they'd win, and this other coalition formed around the idea they could get 36% and they'd win, now what do you think is going to happen?

Obviously you have to regularly have 50%+1 victories, but not too much more than that or you end up getting a surplus of losers in your coalition, and you'll find yourself fighting bygone policy battles forever ~ just listen to the Democrats in the NE. They haven't had a new idea in 75 years!

20 posted on 07/09/2012 1:57:02 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Jim Robinson

What Jim says to the 10th POWER!

LLS


21 posted on 07/09/2012 2:05:28 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: Jim Robinson
Roberts was a great surprise and disappointment! I thought he was a great appointment when he was chosen.

I don't see a violent revolution. I can see individual desperate acts and massive noncompliance and civil disobedience. Americans are a handful when they are angry!

22 posted on 07/09/2012 2:07:28 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: tunedin

we have to many precinct leaders and alternates who are still trapped in the 1950’s and are clueless about tech, social media, or just how evil the MSM really is.

Some of them barely use cellphones. Smartphones? Internet? you might has well be john mccain in a cyber cafe wonder what kind of drink a cyber is.


23 posted on 07/09/2012 2:18:08 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory

All too aware my FRiend. And precinct delegate or not, ignorance on tech and social media is also a problem for those who at least step up to volunteer on a campaign as well. Here’s to a short learning curve for those willing to step up.


24 posted on 07/09/2012 2:28:08 PM PDT by tunedin
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To: Anti-Bubba182

The grassroots tea party rebellion is not a revolution. It is a grassroots rebellion at the BALLOT BOX and was very effective in 2010. I only pray it continues in 2012 and beyond, although many of our weaker members have been frightened off by the specter of the blatantly STATIST Obama possibly winning re-election to the White House. So frightened are they that they are perfectly willing to set aside their conservative principles and cast their votes for a man who is obviously every bit the STATIST that Obama is. They are, in fact, surrendering to STATISM rather than fighting it.

Romney is a STATIST. It’s steeped into his psyche. The state is the first place he looks to solve problems.

Government, ie, the state, is not the solution. Government is the problem.

Romney and statists like him are the problem.

Statists should not be elected. Statists currently in office (like Obama, Biden, Reid, Pelosi, et al, and now Roberts) should be impeached and expelled for blatantly disregarding, violating, or failing to uphold the constitution as is their sworn duty, and in some cases, for high crimes and outright treason!!


25 posted on 07/09/2012 2:28:47 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: longtermmemmory
  The silent majority need only take over one of the parties

  The important thing to do is to contact one of the active Republicans in your area. If you become active at the local level you can influence things greatly since it's often a pretty small club.
26 posted on 07/09/2012 2:36:28 PM PDT by Maurice Tift (You can't stop the signal, Mal. You can never stop the signal.)
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To: IbJensen

Much if not most of the problem is due to our own internal differences among the States. Certant republicans from certant states come from political climates that are not as conservatives as most of us would like.

We all have our own self-interest which is fine, but we don’t all recognize this fact in our policy making. Ultimately there is only one policy that can satafie all of us, and that is the policy of leaving each other alone and letting us each address our own problems in the way best suited to them independently.

We cannot hope to agree, or compromise on many many issues, simply because what is needed in Minnesota is poisonous to Texas, and vice versa.

Washington politicians have it suck in their head that their job is to solve problems indiscriminately. But that is not their job at all, indeed it is their attempt to do that job that has caused or exacerbated most of our existing problems.

The Job of Washington Politicians is to address issues of a Federal nature as listed in the Federal Constitution. Sadly Washington has been soo busy trying to butt its head into every domestic matter that they have largely negligent them federal responsibly.

Our trade relations are abusive, our foreign policy is inept and to be frank we are getting screwed over by foreigners all over the world, because congress is too distracted to act!

If we are going to fix this we are going to have to rebuild our old defences against Federal encorchment, including the political moxy at the state level to make a consistant and determaned stand against Federal encorchment.

We are going to have to play both the left and the right on this issue. Washington must be pushed back into its box whether it like it or not, and that will unforutnatly take us a great many years, perhaps a decade or more from where we are at.

This effort however is already well underway as it has been sense 2009. Current & recent State efforts are proof of that! The battle may look grim, but our strategy to win this war is already showing great promus and significant fruit. That is perhaps the most encouraging sign of these times. :)


27 posted on 07/09/2012 2:43:31 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: IbJensen

Trying to mold he GOP has not worked well.


28 posted on 07/09/2012 2:44:03 PM PDT by NoLibZone (We must get down on our knees each day and thank God that McCain/Palin didn't win in '08. Right?)
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To: tunedin

“I am but sadly not enough TEA partiers took action on this logical solution in my opinion.”

Conservatives can’t muster enough gumption to go to a town hall meeting and oppose a sidewalk ordinance. The Founders organized Committees of Safety. Conservatives have organized nothing. There won’t be any third party movement until conservatives can show they are willing to organize and clean out their own neighborhoods and remove liberals from town councils and county boards. Electing a constitutional sheriff is also a good idea.


29 posted on 07/09/2012 2:49:40 PM PDT by sergeantdave (Public unions exist to protect the unions from the taxpaying public)
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To: Jim Robinson

Nice to see EE wake up. It’ll be even better when he realizes that there is zero hope for the GOP.

Why there isn’t blood running in the streets, I don’t know. I was past the point of marching (armed) on D.C. a few months ago, but when I look around me ... everyone else is sleepwalking. And I live in Texas ... so what does that tell you?

You get the government you DEMAND.


30 posted on 07/09/2012 2:54:05 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (Man is not free unless government is limited. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Jim Robinson

“All of our enemies”

All of our enemies/communists within got the job done where the external enemies/communists could not do it.

I restated it for you.


31 posted on 07/09/2012 2:57:47 PM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (I wanna start a Seniors' Motor Scooter Gang. Wanna join?)
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To: IbJensen

I would never want another 3-person election.

Perot gave us Clinton. I’m OK with multiple parties running but the TWO best should go head to head.


32 posted on 07/09/2012 2:59:53 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: Noumenon

Phase one might entail secession of various states.


33 posted on 07/09/2012 3:09:15 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: Jim Robinson
The grassroots tea party rebellion is not a revolution. It is a grassroots rebellion at the BALLOT BOX and was very effective in 2010. I only pray it continues in 2012 and beyond, although many of our weaker members have been frightened off by the specter of the blatantly STATIST Obama possibly winning re-election to the White House. So frightened are they that they are perfectly willing to set aside their conservative principles and cast their votes for a man who is obviously every bit the STATIST that Obama is. They are, in fact, surrendering to STATISM rather than fighting it.

Romney is a STATIST. It’s steeped into his psyche. The state is the first place he looks to solve problems.

*********************************

Excellent post, Jim.

34 posted on 07/09/2012 3:13:14 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: spel_grammer_an_punct_polise

Thanks and you got it exactly right. The gooks are in the wire. We’re going to have to call in a dump of everything our side has left on our own pos..


35 posted on 07/09/2012 3:13:48 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: IbJensen
We’re not ready for a third party and both this site and I will continue advocating for conservative Republicans...

...The GOP better get back to its pro-liberty roots quickly.

Yeah, Karl Rove, Graham, Snowe, mitt, McCain and the rest are all shaking in their boots.

"We'll vote for dog poo as long as it has an (R) after it, but oh, you just wait, one of these days I'm going to write a strongly worded letter!

36 posted on 07/09/2012 3:15:46 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (Goode over evil. Voting for mitt or obie is like throwing your country away.)
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To: Jim Robinson; spel_grammer_an_punct_polise

..I say again, I want all you’re holding INSIDE the perimeter. It’s a lovely freeping war. Bravo Six Actual and Out.


37 posted on 07/09/2012 3:17:20 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: IbJensen
Political realignments in the U.S. two-party system tend to be sudden things once triggered - pretty much done over one or two election cycles. However, the conditions making the realignment possible can persist for some time before the trigger occurs.

The Democrats, for all their Marxism, govt in the name of fairness instead of justice, etc. stand for something recognizable (albeit tyrannical). The Republicans stand for...nothing. Plurality in place of principle isn't a governing philosophy, its a recipe for extinction.

We needn't fear the realignment that's coming because it's a natural and healthy process. What form it will take and the precise timing remain a mystery - most likely only waiting for the right leader and the right event.

38 posted on 07/09/2012 3:25:40 PM PDT by LaserJock
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To: IbJensen
Our self created problems aren't bad enough yet. Voters still latch on to the Democratic and Republican tribe. If the people really cared they would not align themselves with those two failed enterprises.

Actually, they are very efficient at growing Gov't and taking from the citizen.

The chorus of this is the most important election will show up and sing the hymn of stopping one faction or the other. Thus repeating the failed cycle of our current political process. Unfortunately for the citizens of our States, we don't have individuals that rise up to face the trials we currently endure.

Special interest, globalism, fear of the Constitution, and the death of nationalism has been the republic's seppuku.

39 posted on 07/09/2012 3:26:54 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Jim Robinson

Yep. Light up that jungle (D.C.) and GTFO.


40 posted on 07/09/2012 3:42:07 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (Man is not free unless government is limited. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Jim Robinson; All
BTTT! And needs to be repeated again and again.

When the Chief Justice of the United States formally throws out the constitutional limits on government, we no longer have a constitutional republic!!


41 posted on 07/09/2012 3:46:54 PM PDT by RedMDer (https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93destr)
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To: RedMDer

Exactly right bump!


42 posted on 07/09/2012 4:06:28 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: IbJensen

Crony Capitalism is a bi-partisan provider of election campaign support, and finds bi-partisan takers for that support


43 posted on 07/09/2012 4:42:55 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: IbJensen

Maybe we should just repeal and replace the two existing ones.


44 posted on 07/09/2012 5:43:33 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Noumenon

Probably so.


45 posted on 07/09/2012 5:44:13 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Right Wing Assault

Who, this time, are the two best?


46 posted on 07/09/2012 5:56:52 PM PDT by IbJensen (If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed)
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To: Noumenon

“The First American Republic is dead. Died some time ago. It will take CWII to establish a Second American Republic.”

Yup. Agreed.


47 posted on 07/09/2012 6:05:51 PM PDT by APatientMan (Pick a side)
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To: Jim Robinson

“Long live the grass roots tea party rebellion!! Long live the Republic!! Long live Liberty!!”

Amen.


48 posted on 07/09/2012 6:12:45 PM PDT by APatientMan (Pick a side)
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To: Jim Robinson
The republican party is no longer even remotely conservative. The Tea Party candidates and voters are looked down on with great disdain by the likes of Karl Rove and establishment freaks in and out of DC.
Isn't Romney an example of the very type of rino the Tea Party voter's worked long and hard to get rid of? now the irony is..he is the candidate. I am still recuperating from the hellacious primaries.
49 posted on 07/09/2012 6:28:17 PM PDT by katiedidit1 ("This is one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." the Irish)
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To: IbJensen

After I posted, I realized I didn’t fully explain what I meant but I didn’t correct that.

I meant that all parties involved would run in a national primary and the two best vote getters would run in November.

Since that system doesn’t exist, your question doesn’t apply. Our individual state primaries are so scattered across time and so different in format and results that they are hard to interpret. One guy runs away with one state and another guy runs away with a different state.

The stupid debate formats are a jumble of liberal moderator gotcha questions combined with unequal treatment of candidates. The winner is based on who has the best one-liners rather than the best ideas. They aren’t even debates.

Having multiple parties makes the problem even more complicated, though.

What I don’t want is a candidate being able to win the presidential election with 40% of the vote. I would like to at least pretend that we can narrow our selection to two candidates.

With people voting not for the best person in their party but rather for the worst person in the other party is another complication.

What’s the best solution? I don’t know.


50 posted on 07/10/2012 1:39:40 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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