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Tim Tebow, Bryce Harper Drastically Different in How They Represent Faith in Sports World
New England Sports Network. ^ | 07.10.12

Posted on 07/11/2012 8:44:48 AM PDT by Coleus

When it comes to faith in sports, Tim Tebow is probably the first guy who comes to mind.

Tebow has most people thinking that being a Christian likely involves some form of constant prayer, shout-outs to Jesus and rules that get rid of a lot of fun.

But Tebow's outspokenness isn't the only way athletes sincerely approach faith. Bryce Harper, who ascribes to Mormonism, has become an example of another young, talented player who is bringing his beliefs into the public eye, albeit it in a much different way.

Both Tebow and Harper are showing the sports world that there are plenty of ways to talk about faith. And maybe, by doing that, they can help athletes and fans find a deeper understanding and growth when it comes to beliefs.

Harper is known mostly for his brash public persona, from his gamesmanship on the baseball diamond to his "clown question" cult hero status. He first broke into public consciousness when was labeled on a Sports Illustrated cover as the next great baseball player, a phenom who could hit bombs and had the tools for an incredible all-around game.

Harper's ascent to the major leagues, where he now plays for the Washington Nationals, was full of awe, but it also had some hiccups. Harper has never been shy about showing his talent, and as he conquered each stage of the game, he started showing people up, too. He's blown kisses at a pitcher, drawn lines in the dirt to show umpires where he thought strikes were balls and, overall, been pretty cocky.

That's why a lot of people do a double-take when they find out Harper is Mormon -- and not just check-a-box Mormon, but follow-the-book Mormon. Harper famously doesn't drink (the source of "that's a clown question, bro"), but he also doesn't party or get into much mischief off the field.

It's difficult to imagine the impetuous Harper as a devout anything, but by all reports, he's serious about his faith. And as he becomes a larger figure in American consciousness, he hasn't been shy about acknowledging what he believes and explaining how it fits in with his everyday life.

His approach is in great contrast to Tebow. Not only do the two athletes believe different things -- please, understand that evangelical Christianity and Mormonism are extremely different, and very much needing the dividing lines that people draw -- but they also live their beliefs in opposite ways.

Tebow leads with his faith, making it the forefront of everything he does. His eyeblack had Bible verses, and his virginity and other life choices are prime fodder in any interview. He even preaches at church services and prays publicly with people. Harper, on the other hand, has let his play and personality carry him so far, with his faith a comfortable but not controlling part of the conversation.

Both athletes are equally polarizing. While Tebow's beliefs put most people off, Harper's attitude is what riles people against him. If anything, Tebow is the perfect example of a person living out his faith no matter the costs, while Harper is the test case for whether people will accept players' beliefs if the athletes put their game first and present their views as a secondary concern, in the realm of "I didn't know that about him," and "that's interesting."

So, which is better? Do you want someone who is upfront about his faith, who never shies away from the beliefs that have shaped his life, even to the point of being obnoxious? Or do you want a player who is in your face about how good he is but keeps his creed to himself?

Maybe the question here is not one of preference. Maybe the takeaway from seeing two guys who are so drastically different taking their faith into professional sports is that it matters less how someone presents his beliefs than that he is showing them in the first place. If faith is as important as those who follow it say it is -- if it is truly life-changing and the rhythm by which people live -- isn't it great that these two athletes have found ways to carry it into a professional world full of ego, poor behavior, drug use or just flat-out immaturity?

Millions of Americans follow specific beliefs and creeds, but when it comes to public life, any matter of faith has been rolled into the "religion" category, where it's become as dangerous as politics. It's a touchy point, rarely discussed because of the disagreements it can cause. Seeing athletes show how their beliefs fit into everyday life, even at such a high level, should be an encouragement in a nation that struggles when discussing the topic. Faith shouldn't be a dividing line -- it should be a source of hope that brings people together. And seeing top-tier professional athletes who not only share their faith but also live it shows those watching that there's more than dogma when it comes to centering one's life around beliefs.

Whether people agree with Tebow or Harper or not, the beliefs by which they live are a major part of everyday people's lives. Learning more about faith isn't just a way to see how Tebow and Harper tick -- it's a way to strengthen communities and find the life-changing truth behind the smokescreen of religion.

Tebow and Harper aren't fully representative of their respective faith communities. Mormons have to be a bit shy about some of Harper's choices, especially concerning his attitude. Some of his actions don't necessarily jive with Mormon teachings on good behavior. (Harper also breaks the mold on the clean-cut young Mormon missionary, although it should be noted that most religious sects aren't so tight on their requirements for knee-length skirts and shirts and ties these days.)

Some evangelicals are just as unsure about jumping full-force behind Tebow. While he is open about his faith and lives according to his beliefs, he has also created a narrowness about what it means to be a Christian, especially among the younger generation.

But the bottom line is that both players are leaning on their faith to change their lives, and leaning on their place in the limelight to spread their faith further. Whether their eyeblack is covered in tidy Bible verses or streaming down their faces in brash confidence, they've brought the deeper life to the shine and charade of professional sports.

Critics may pick apart how Tebow chooses to live, and whether Harper's moxie matches Mormon beliefs. But if they're talking about that, they're talking about faith. And that's a boon to anyone who believes that that's what really matters in all of this.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: harper; religion; sports; tebow

1 posted on 07/11/2012 8:44:57 AM PDT by Coleus
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To: Coleus
Some evangelicals are just as unsure about jumping full-force behind Tebow. While he is open about his faith and lives according to his beliefs, he has also created a narrowness about what it means to be a Christian, especially among the younger generation.

Good article. I disagree with the above part though. If you look at Tebow closely, it's definitely apparent on what it means to be a Christian. Any attempt to make it seem "simple" isn't Tebow's doing. Hence why evangelicals should get behind him (which a lot have).

2 posted on 07/11/2012 8:51:15 AM PDT by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: Coleus
Bryce Harper, who ascribes to Mormonism ...

This sentence is missing its direct object. The author seems to have heard some words and imagined that he knows what they mean, rather like my James, who says, "I hate having to play with Frank: he's so affiliated!"

3 posted on 07/11/2012 8:56:33 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("For it is time to seek the LORD, until he come and rain down justice upon you.")
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To: Coleus; Nana; aMorePerfectUnion; Godzilla; fishtank; bonfire; metmom; Graybeard58; ejonesie22; ...

There are reasons Mormons don’t have vocal expressions like Tebow regarding their relationship with Christ. They don’t really have one (been there done that), they may THINK they do, but their faith is in the LDS church first.

Mormons use distant terms to describe Jesus such as ‘our elder brother’ or ‘the savior’, while Born Again Christians (like Tebow) use the name Jesus or “my Savior”.

Comparing Tebow’s faith to Harper’s is comparing apples to grenades.


4 posted on 07/11/2012 9:02:33 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Coleus

“— please, understand that evangelical Christianity and Mormonism are extremely different, and very much needing the dividing lines that people draw —”


Bears repeating.


5 posted on 07/11/2012 9:13:04 AM PDT by freedomlover (Make sure you're in love - before you move in the heavy stuff)
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To: Coleus

..great catch last night, Harper—go Mike Trout!


6 posted on 07/11/2012 9:14:40 AM PDT by WalterSkinner ( In Memory of My Father--WWII Vet and Patriot 1926-2007)
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To: reaganaut

Mark Bavaro was kneeling and crossing himself back before it seemed unusual. He’s a big Pro-Lifer and a good guy. his father was my Homeroom teacher in Jr. High school. He was 92 feet tall. No Talking.


7 posted on 07/11/2012 9:16:34 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Coleus
Harper is known mostly for his brash public persona, from his gamesmanship on the baseball diamond to his "clown question" cult hero status. He first broke into public consciousness when was labeled on a Sports Illustrated cover as the next great baseball player, a phenom who could hit bombs and had the tools for an incredible all-around game.

Harper's ascent to the major leagues, where he now plays for the Washington Nationals, was full of awe, but it also had some hiccups. Harper has never been shy about showing his talent, and as he conquered each stage of the game, he started showing people up, too. He's blown kisses at a pitcher, drawn lines in the dirt to show umpires where he thought strikes were balls and, overall, been pretty cocky.

That's why a lot of people do a double-take when they find out Harper is Mormon -- and not just check-a-box Mormon, but follow-the-book Mormon. Harper famously doesn't drink (the source of "that's a clown question, bro"), but he also doesn't party or get into much mischief off the field.

It's difficult to imagine the impetuous Harper as a devout anything, but by all reports, he's serious about his faith. And as he becomes a larger figure in American consciousness, he hasn't been shy about acknowledging what he believes and explaining how it fits in with his everyday life.

Ping for later

8 posted on 07/11/2012 9:17:42 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2898271/posts?page=119#119)
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To: Coleus

“Some of his actions don’t necessarily jive with Mormon teachings on good behavior.”

I’ve watched pretty much most of the nats this season. Since he came up, I’ve seen is hard nosed hussle in the bigs, combined with some of the same mistakes most rookies make at times, base running and throwing. He encouraged folks to vote for Chipper Jones, handled the Cole Hammels beaning the right way. The kissing thing to the pitcher was in the minors after the pitcher ran his mouth all game, at least to my understanding. The line drawing thing happened in the junior college series I think? Anyhow he himself said he was a brat I think, but it hasn’t come up as far as I have seen in the MLB. First I knew about the LDS thing was the clown question retort.

Freegards


9 posted on 07/11/2012 9:32:57 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Coleus

Ones a Christian, ones in a cult. Differences are expected.


10 posted on 07/11/2012 9:33:08 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I'm comfortable with a Romney win." - Pres. Jimmy Carter)
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To: Coleus

The arrogance is familiar in Harper.


11 posted on 07/11/2012 9:36:15 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: reaganaut

Comparing apple to grenades ... hmmm, another one of your brilliant anaologies!


12 posted on 07/11/2012 9:38:29 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Coleus

“...being a Christian likely involves some form of constant prayer, shout-outs to Jesus and rules that get rid of a lot of fun.”

###

Ignorant juvenilia.

Breathtaking in its vacuous, uninformed superficiality.


13 posted on 07/11/2012 9:42:09 AM PDT by EyeGuy (Armed, judgmental, fiscally responsible heterosexual.)
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To: reaganaut

Yes, thank you for that insight. Agreed.


14 posted on 07/11/2012 9:43:25 AM PDT by Obadiah (Insurrection is now an option)
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To: massgopguy
I would get so angry when Bavaro would play against the Skins. Not just angry at him for being good but angry against the Skins defense. I would shout at the tube "It's the same play over and over, why can't you guys stop it!"

Seriously, Bavaro was a great TE for the Giants.

15 posted on 07/11/2012 9:47:40 AM PDT by 7thson (I've got a seat at the big conference table! I'm gonna paint my logo on it!)
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To: Coleus
"...he has also created a narrowness about what it means to be a Christian, especially among the younger generation."

Huh? Narrowness? Unless I'm missing something I think he's done a great job living a full Christian example. But of course, the 'narrowness' is the straight and narrow that Jesus talks to as the path to Life, i.e., not for gay marriage, free and easy sex, money at all costs, compromised integrity, etc. I'll take Tim's narrow any day.
16 posted on 07/11/2012 9:49:12 AM PDT by time4good
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To: Coleus
"...he has also created a narrowness about what it means to be a Christian, especially among the younger generation."

Huh? Narrowness? Unless I'm missing something I think he's done a great job living a full Christian example. But of course, the 'narrowness' is the straight and narrow that Jesus talks to as the path to Life, i.e., not for gay marriage, free and easy sex, money at all costs, compromised integrity, etc. I'll take Tim's narrow any day.
17 posted on 07/11/2012 9:55:47 AM PDT by time4good
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To: reaganaut

This is the Mormon approach. The young missionaries are not like Jehovah’s witnesses, throwing their differences in your face. They just come in to “get aquainted” They talk a lot about Jesus. What they don’t talk much about is their theology, because it radically differs from that of Evangelical or Catholic theology. Most fundmentally, it rejects the Holy Trinity. Therefore “their” Jesus is not the same person as “Our” Jesus. No more than the Muslim “Jesus.” is the same person.


18 posted on 07/11/2012 9:58:56 AM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: time4good

Indeed. Anyone who reads the New Testament sees that “The Way” was regarded as open to all the nations,not just Jews, but narrow. Paul once compared it with the training of an athlete. Once does not win the prize by not training for the race.


19 posted on 07/11/2012 10:04:17 AM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: massgopguy

Mark Bavaro was kneeling and crossing himself back before it seemed unusual.

- - - - —
Yep. I think its great. I watch a lot of Bull Riding and it is very common for the riders to kneel and pray after a ride.


20 posted on 07/11/2012 10:04:25 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: MHGinTN

The arrogance is familiar in Harper.

- - - - - - -
That it is, I remember it well.


21 posted on 07/11/2012 10:08:50 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: MHGinTN

:)


22 posted on 07/11/2012 10:10:38 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Coleus

While he is open about his faith and lives according to his beliefs, he has also created a narrowness about what it means to be a Christian, especially among the younger generation.******

Tebow has created nothing about what it means to be a Christian. Christianity isn’t some sort of self-styled religion designed to glorify self. It’s about dying to self, picking up your cross and following Christ wherever that may lead.

Tebow simply glorifies his Savior through his daily existence and in so doing encourages others in the faith.


23 posted on 07/11/2012 10:11:45 AM PDT by bereanway
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To: RobbyS

Exactly. The LDS (Mormon) approach is to make ‘the Church’ look good and they use the same terms but have different meanings. They will also flat out LIE about their doctrines in order to sound more ‘Christian’ under the guise of ‘milk before meat’.

Last year I wrote an example here on FR of Mormon/Christian dialogue which shows how subtle (and knowing) LDS lying is.

When I was Mormon, I truly believed I was a Christian (and like all other LDS that we were the only TRUE Christians and traditional Christians were apostates). It was only after God freed me from Mormonism did I see I wasn’t really a Christian at all, I could not be one and be Mormon.

I am going to add Harper to my prayer list.


24 posted on 07/11/2012 10:18:59 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Coleus

Overall, a pretty good article.


25 posted on 07/11/2012 10:21:47 AM PDT by GSWarrior
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To: justice14

“Some evangelicals ... he has also created a narrowness about what it means to be a Christian, especially among the younger generation.”

Tebow hasn’t created a narrowness - God created the Rules and Tim is just trying to follow them as a true believer. Any Evangelical who doesn’t get that should question where he/she gets her marching orders from.

Consider the source of criticism towards Tebow — all I see are spoiled brats who hate it that Tebow isn’t a hypocrite. Football is a means to an end, and that end is for advancing the Gospel. Go, TIMMY!


26 posted on 07/11/2012 10:29:28 AM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: Sioux-san

I agree. I was a little confused on the initial use of “narrowness”. If I read correctly, I thought it was saying it as a negative and meaning the word “narrowness” as simplicity.

Being a Christian isn’t some fun little game where you wear a WWJD bracelet and everything is good. It’s deeper than that. I was meaning to convey that I feel Tebow does promote that it is something that is deep and not just slogans and show.

I agree with everything you said. God created the rules. It’s us that makes the “narrow” road wider and that is unbiblical and dangerous.


27 posted on 07/11/2012 10:39:41 AM PDT by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: reaganaut

Prayer “works.”

What bothers me about Romney’s faith is that there is so little common ground between his theology and Christian theology. Now, because the Mormon leaders periodically have “revelations,” It might be that they are moving closer to normative Christianity. Or it might not, that they are like Obama and are dissembling, which makes their actions unpredictable.


28 posted on 07/11/2012 10:47:15 AM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: RobbyS

It might be that they are moving closer to normative Christianity.

- - - - - —
I don’t think so. First of all there hasn’t been a official ‘revelation’ since 1978, second in order to move close to normative Christianity, they would need to renounce the entire foundation of their faith (apostasy and restoration, the Book of Mormon, and Joseph Smith) as well as all of their core theology. It would be a turnaround that would make the changes in the Worldwide Church of God (Armstrong) look like nothing.

I don’t see it happening.


29 posted on 07/11/2012 10:52:47 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Ransomed
I'm with you. I''ve watched nearly every Nats game since 2006 and haven't missed a game this season...thanks to MLB TV replays of the games I miss when I'm on the road. Harper gets a bum rap from ignoramouses who either hate him because he's Mormon (that river runs very deep here on FR...many of those bigots will post on this thread)or because he's so damned good. Hamels fell into the latter camp. There was no good reason in the world for him to hit Harper and he made an ass of himself following the game with that 'old school' crap. Harper, on the other hand, was the epitome of class with his response...stealing home!

People who don't know anything about what he's brought to the game this year fall back on mistakes he made when he was 15-16 years old...acting like a 15 or 16 year old kid. He shows all of them up!

30 posted on 07/11/2012 10:54:17 AM PDT by pgkdan (ANYBODY BUT OBAMA!)
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To: RobbyS

Prayer does work. Many years after I left Mormonism, I discovered that some friends had known the bookstore owner who challenged me in Provo and were praying for me and all the other LDS he would come in contact with. They didn’t even know me then, yet they were praying that I would be reached and I was.


31 posted on 07/11/2012 10:55:46 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Coleus
While he is open about his faith and lives according to his beliefs, he has also created a narrowness about what it means to be a Christian, especially among the younger generation.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and borad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (Matthew 7:13-15)

This pretty much sums up the difference between a Bible-believing Christian and anyone else the world prefers, such as this Mormon.

32 posted on 07/11/2012 11:03:10 AM PDT by nonsporting
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To: Coleus

I wonder what this author thinks of all the MLB Latin players who when they get a hit or as a pitcher strike some one out, will point to the sky and take god.


33 posted on 07/11/2012 11:15:36 AM PDT by JimC214
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To: JimC214

Thank God......whoops.


34 posted on 07/11/2012 11:18:10 AM PDT by JimC214
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To: nonsporting

“borad” == “broad”


35 posted on 07/11/2012 11:18:10 AM PDT by nonsporting
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To: justice14

This is where Christians blow it when they get into debates where they appear to be defending “their” views. Kirk Cameron is constantly under attack, and he says the right words that it’s not his rules, but God’s. Non-believers don’t understand the distinction, so they get very angry at him (and Tebow). This author using the word “narrow” illustrates it perfectly. Not sure if he means “simple” or if he is honing in on Tebow’s virtuousness/virginity that so many Libs think is just plain stupid and impossible. How wrong they are. Young people really don’t like being railroaded into corrupt behavior - they need to have more young role models to see the Gospel lived out.


36 posted on 07/11/2012 11:49:02 AM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: reaganaut

So the major changes were about social policy:polygamy and racism. With the break down in traditional marriage, do you think that might edge back toward Brigham Young’s views? It is my understanding that the other Mormon body never did accept it, out of loyalty to Smith’s wife.


37 posted on 07/11/2012 11:55:50 AM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Sioux-san
Young people really don’t like being railroaded into corrupt behavior - they need to have more young role models to see the Gospel lived out.

Ain't that the truth.

38 posted on 07/11/2012 12:04:23 PM PDT by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: RobbyS

So the major changes were about social policy:polygamy and racism. With the break down in traditional marriage, do you think that might edge back toward Brigham Young’s views? It is my understanding that the other Mormon body never did accept it, out of loyalty to Smith’s wife.

- - - - - - -
Right, the RLDS (now Community of Christ) never practiced polygamy, that is the group that Emma Smith (Joseph’s legal wife) went with. On the other hand, the FLDS still practice polygamy and follow Brigham Young. In effect they are the true Mormons.

I do expect to see changes back to polygamy. The LDS have kept the revelation on polygamy, still practice it in some ways (men can be married for eternity to more than one woman in this life just not legally married to more than one at a time - women cannot), and teach that polygamy will be reinstated during the Millennium (when Christ rules from Missiouri).

I fully expect to see revelations on homosexuality being acceptable (they are already moving a little in that direction with allowing openly gay people to have mid level church jobs) in the next 10-15 years and if polygamy is legalized then they will have another ‘revelation’ very quickly bringing it back. I know many LDS who are working for that and praying for it as well.


39 posted on 07/11/2012 12:23:23 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut
I did not realize for many years why the people of Illinois were so exercised with the Mormons until I read of the truly bizarre practices of some of them. As flagrant in their dismissal of custom as some of the gays in San Francisco. I am put to mind the gnostics of early Christian times,and their extreme antinomianism. Yet in their public behavior, modern Mormons seems to be like people out of the ‘50s. Like Ezra Taft Benson, for instance. Will he pull lots of people from the Church into his administration, as Obama has done his true believers? When I was at Ramstein, the base commander was a Mormon and while he was there the number of Mormon officers noticeably increased. After he departed, the number went down again. Models of propriety, one and all.
40 posted on 07/11/2012 1:58:16 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: RobbyS

Yet in their public behavior, modern Mormons seems to be like people out of the ‘50s. Like Ezra Taft Benson, for instance. Will he pull lots of people from the Church into his administration, as Obama has done his true believers?

- - - - - -
Public behavior and private lives are very different in Mormonism. Utah has the highest rate of Prozac use, and has very high rates of suicide and prescription drug abuse. A lot of that has to do with the pressure in the Mormon church to APPEAR ‘perfect’ - the perfect husband, the perfect wife and mother, perfect children, wealth is seen as proof of ‘living the gospel’, it is a lot of pressure.

Will Romney pull Mormons in at a higher rate - definitely. A lot of small Mormon companies will only hire Mormons (I worked for three of them and lost one job when I left the LDS church) and it is a similar thing. Mitt has already named Mormon (and former Utah Gov) Mike Levitt to head up his transition team.


41 posted on 07/11/2012 2:14:20 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut

There is a lot to admire in the Mormon “Errand into the Wilderness. I have read parts of the ‘Great Basin Kingdom,” by Arrington. In some ways it is like the Zionist enterprise. It is also like the Massachusetts Bay Colony in its approach. Except that the Puritans were 1)hard-nosed Trinitarians and 2) hard drinkers.:)


42 posted on 07/11/2012 2:23:51 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: RobbyS

Read the other side of it, it is nowhere NEAR as rosy as Arrington (who wrote faith promoting history only) paints it. There is a dark side that the LDS ignore or flat out lie about.

I can give you some recommendations if you would like.


43 posted on 07/11/2012 2:32:44 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: pgkdan

I know nothing about Tebow because I won’t touch pro-foot ball with a ten foot pole. I just can’t take it, never could and I stopped following college ball years ago.

The only reason I posted becasue the article said the way he acts is in conflict with LDS. I have seen nothing that would detract from that group based on what I have seen of Harper on MASN.

Freegards


44 posted on 07/11/2012 2:50:05 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: reaganaut

There was a dark side to the New England colonies, too: the wars of extermination of the neighboring indians tribes, which was a bit like a replay of “Joshua.” But, yes, I would like some recommendations. Perhaps a critique of Mormon theology.


45 posted on 07/11/2012 8:18:28 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: RobbyS

The best website and resource is Utah Lighthouse Ministry. The founder, Sandra Tanner, is a walking encylopedia of Mormon history and doctrine and will be happy to talk to you via email or over the phone. They also have a bookstore (with several books by LDS writers as well) and some online books.

Here is a link to the online books, The Hoth Diary and Brighams Destroying Angel are both good.

http://utlm.org/navonlinebooks.htm

For print books, I would recommend the following....

Under the Banner of Heaven (polygamy mostly but also early Utah history)

Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows (also covers the trek west and life in Utah)

Conflict in the Quorum: Orson Pratt, Brigham Young, Joseph Smith by Gary James Bergera

Cultures In Conflict by John E. Hallwas & Roger D. Launiusn (mostly dealing with the LDS in Illinois)

Faith and Betrayal: A Pioneer Woman’s Passage in the American West - Sally Denton

An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins by Grant Palmer (a true believing Mormon this book got him disciplined by the LDS church and ultimately a showdown between him resigning or being excommunicated)

On the Mormon Frontier: The Diary of Hosea Stout, 1844-1889 - Juanita Brooks

Devil’s Gate: Brigham Young and the Great Mormon Handcart Tragedy

Forgotten Kingdom: The Mormon Theocracy in the American West 1847-1896

Hope this helps and Sandra can direct you to even more resources.

For an overview of Mormonism -

Mormonism—Shadow or Reality? By Jerald and Sandra Tanner

And Reasoning from the Scriptures with Mormons - Ron Rhodes


46 posted on 07/11/2012 10:25:07 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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