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Democrats threaten to go over ‘fiscal cliff’ if GOP fails to raise taxes
Washington Post ^

Posted on 07/16/2012 2:04:18 AM PDT by sunmars

Democrats are making increasingly explicit threats about their willingness to let nearly $600 billion worth of tax hikes and spending cuts take effect in January unless Republicans drop their opposition to higher taxes for the nation’s wealthiest households.

Emboldened by signs that GOP resistance to new taxes may be weakening, senior Democrats say they are prepared to weather a fiscal event that could plunge the nation back into recession if the new year arrives without an acceptable compromise.

In a speech Monday, Sen. Patty Murray (Wash.), the Senate’s No. 4 Democrat and the leader of the caucus’s campaign arm, plans to make the clearest case yet for going over what some have called the “fiscal cliff.”

“If we can’t get a good deal, a balanced deal that calls on the wealthy to pay their fair share, then I will absolutely continue this debate into 2013,” Murray plans to say, according to excerpts of the speech provided to The Washington Post.

If the tax cuts from the George W. Bush era expire and taxes go up for everyone, the debate will be reset, Murray is expected to say. “Every proposal will be a tax-cut proposal,” according to the excerpts, and Republicans would no longer be “boxed in” by their pledge not to raise taxes.

“If middle-class families start seeing more money coming out of their paychecks next year, are Republicans really going to stand up and fight for new tax cuts for the rich? Are they going to continue opposing the Democrats’ middle-class tax cut once the slate has been wiped clean? I think they know this would be an untenable political position.”

Murray’s address, set to be delivered at the Brookings Institution, is meant to influence both the Nov. 6 election and the lame-duck legislative session in November and December

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Business/Economy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 112th; classwarfare; federalspending; pattymurray; taxandspend; taxes; taxincrease
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as we all thought, another political wedge, the Dem goal is to raise taxes.

The GOP need to run with this as the Dems threatening the ordinary people during economic turmoil.

1 posted on 07/16/2012 2:04:28 AM PDT by sunmars
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To: sunmars

At this rate, we’re going off a “fiscal cliff” no matter what.


2 posted on 07/16/2012 2:13:30 AM PDT by Salman
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To: sunmars

One of the simpler answers to such a campaign by the Dems, is, “if we are going to severly punish people who succeed, do we really have an American dream?”


3 posted on 07/16/2012 2:15:03 AM PDT by David Isaac
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To: sunmars

“Sen. Patty Murray (Wash.), the Senate’s No. 4 Democrat”

That pretty much tells you all you need to know about the modern Democratic Party.


4 posted on 07/16/2012 2:18:47 AM PDT by DemforBush (A Repo man is *always* intense!)
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To: sunmars

These Dimowits seem to forget there are a lot of wealthy democRat voters in the country. Do they expect those voters to believe they’ll be exempt from the tax hikes or something?

The Dems are giving us the election, if the GOP would just wake up.


5 posted on 07/16/2012 2:21:21 AM PDT by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: sunmars

The road to hell is paved by Democrats.


6 posted on 07/16/2012 2:22:08 AM PDT by RC one (this space intentionally left blank)
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To: sunmars

Republicans need to stand up for principles and call the Democrat’s bluff. Democrats count on Republicans being weak.


7 posted on 07/16/2012 2:22:17 AM PDT by detective
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To: sunmars

Raising taxes will do nothing to reduce the deficit. It will only drive the economy down.

Eliminate those U.S.Departments of the Federal Government not explicitly described as powers granted to the Feds in the U.S.Constitution, while at the same time reforming taxation so loopholes are eliminated and everyone pays a flat tax or Federal sales tax (either of which is collected by the States), and remove restrictions off of oil/gas drilling - this country will be out of a depression in short order.


8 posted on 07/16/2012 2:22:17 AM PDT by SatinDoll
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To: sunmars
Sen. Patty Murray (Wash.), the Senate’s No. 4 Democrat

What a scary thought and quite an indictment of the stupidity in the Senate.

9 posted on 07/16/2012 2:28:54 AM PDT by hattend (Firearms and ammunition...the only growing industries under the Obama regime.)
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To: sunmars

Are we in Article 3 Section 3 territory yet? Looks to me like this fits the “levying war against (the USA)” clause.


10 posted on 07/16/2012 2:30:38 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: sunmars

Run with it rats, who said you will be running the senate next year? Cuts in goverment spending SHOULD go into effect as at least 20% of every agency is wasted useless spending.


11 posted on 07/16/2012 2:38:53 AM PDT by JohnD9207 (Mitt better grow a pair or this thing will be over soon.)
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To: sunmars

No worries—the RINOS will cave-—as usual.


12 posted on 07/16/2012 2:42:22 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like it)
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To: sunmars

If Republicans get drawn into a debate abut who’s rich and what rate they should be taxed at (their eternally undefined “fair” share), they have lost.
(1) Offer cuts to avoid the fiscal cliff (that is, to avoid the automatic defense and Medicare cuts). They will take heat on those.
(2) No deal on any tax hike whatsoever. State that for 2012, in a recession, NObody’s rates go up, period.
(3) Propose the rate(s) they’ll implement when they have both Congress and the White House in 2013.


13 posted on 07/16/2012 2:47:32 AM PDT by ReaganGeneration2
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To: Salman

The political parties want you to know which lemmings were leading and which were following because that’s very important to them.


14 posted on 07/16/2012 3:00:58 AM PDT by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: sunmars

We all Know raising taxes on the “Rich” is just The Latest Democrat Gimmick,If you took 100 percent of their Income the Government would run out of that Money in a matter of Months,then what? So what the Hell is their end Game,What the Hell are the Overpaid Advisors to the Feckless Republican party doing to expose the Corrupt from top to Bottom Obama Administration? You have Slum Lords that Took Millions of Dllars of tax payer Money in Chicago to rehab Housing Projects that were Found to be Uninhabitable after a Very short time AFTER the so caleed work,HELLO Valerie Jarrett,Guess who Represented That SMALL district and said he was Unaware of this Fraud? Yep Mr.Hope and Change,How about old Tony Rezco,Convicted Felon,Convicted of Paying Bribes to Politicians, He raised Money for Obumbo, he gave Obumbo a sweetheart Deal On his House when he was under investigation for Corruption. His wife got a Cushy Hospital Job that Paid Her over 300k ,for Get this,
Community Outreach. She was in Business with David Axelrod and were shipping Poor Blacks in Emergencies to other Hospitals because they did not want the poor Blacks Going to their Hospital,some community Outreach. But Romney had his name on a Form saying he owned Bain Capital while he was fixing the Corruption in the Olympics!? Well No crap Sherlock,everyone Knows he owns Bain Capital,he was brought to the Olympics to get the Corruption that was draining the Funds,sort of Like Obama raping the country. Time to expose the Corrupt band Of Poverty Pimps running the Country


15 posted on 07/16/2012 3:04:03 AM PDT by ballplayer
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To: sunmars
“If we can’t get a good deal, a balanced deal that calls on the wealthy to pay their fair share, then I will absolutely continue this debate into 2013,” Murray plans to say, according to excerpts of the speech provided to The Washington Post.

Just another empty skirt is Murray. In the days of George Washington, doctors would bleed patients in order to get rid of the "bad blood" and thus cure them. It did not work.

"Fair share" is a constantly upward moving target. All law abiding tax payers are already paying their fair share. The Democrats want to change that upward, and then change it upward again and again and again. The Democrats irresponsible spending policies are open ended, ineffective, and destructive to a free economy.

16 posted on 07/16/2012 3:05:20 AM PDT by olezip
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To: sunmars

Lowering tax rates would increase federal revenue NOT raising tax rates which would slow the economy even further. Denocrats must be pretending to be stupid.

Since we have a federal spending crisis, what problem would be solved by increased revenue?

Example: What did the federal government do with the repaid TARP funds they received from the banks? They put it toward NEW SPENDING!


17 posted on 07/16/2012 3:07:08 AM PDT by reaganator
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To: detective

You got that right. Call their bluff and campaign on the issue to win the Senate. Then in January, roll back the taxes making the rollback effective January 1, and make the Bush tax cuts permanent so as to eliminate this threat each legislative session.


18 posted on 07/16/2012 3:09:49 AM PDT by Real Cynic No More
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To: sunmars

PUNISH SUCCESS - REWARD LAZINESS ! A winning idea in so many ways.


19 posted on 07/16/2012 3:19:42 AM PDT by Reagan69 (I supported Sarah Palin and all I got was a lousy DVD !)
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To: sunmars

Over the cliff ?

Boy these politicans are dumbasses

We are already over the cliff and arching higher ....nobody looked down yet to see there are no more tracks


20 posted on 07/16/2012 3:19:58 AM PDT by Popman (When you elect a clown: expect a circus...)
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To: sunmars

Look I’m all for working people paying less taxes, but let’s be real about something:

Sending production to China is not working people.

Sending production to China is HELPING OUR ENEMIES.

Bring back production, and stop helping our enemies!!

Now.


21 posted on 07/16/2012 3:35:56 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (America doesn't need any new laws. America needs freedom!)
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To: sunmars
I thought it was Democrat cities like Chicago and New York that are up to a-murder-a-day, and core Democrat constituencies with 40% unemployment rates.

So if Republican politicians don't agree to harm their constituents, Democrats will harm their own constituents????


22 posted on 07/16/2012 3:44:45 AM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: RC one
The road to hell is paved by with Democrats.
23 posted on 07/16/2012 3:47:14 AM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: sunmars

“...if the new year arrives without an acceptable compromise.”


Well? This is “proof in the pudding” that you don’t feed wild animals compromise pie or they will always come back for more.......and they know the Republicans have a huge amount of COMPROMISE to put in the pie.


24 posted on 07/16/2012 3:56:29 AM PDT by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: sunmars
We are already off the cliff and in a downward spiral.

Obama is right that this is a “choice” election. We can stick with Obama and experience Communism or Romney and experience over regulated Capitalism.

25 posted on 07/16/2012 3:59:21 AM PDT by tobyhill (Defund Obamacare Now)
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To: tobyhill

Harry bring it up


26 posted on 07/16/2012 4:00:23 AM PDT by scooby321 (h tones)
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To: sunmars

I would like to see one of our conservative lions in the media publish a list of every employee of the goobermint that is delinquent on paying taxes. Give the 15,000 IRS hacks hired to punish citizens with Obamacare taxes something productive to do.


27 posted on 07/16/2012 4:09:10 AM PDT by IamConservative (Well done is better than well said. - Ben Franklin)
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To: sunmars

28 posted on 07/16/2012 4:17:16 AM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: SatinDoll

The point of the political exercise is not fiscal but political.

Class warfare is seen as the only way to rouse the ire of the lazy detritus that is the Democrat party to get them out to vote.


29 posted on 07/16/2012 4:26:54 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: sunmars
Emboldened by signs that GOP resistance to new taxes may be weakening, senior Democrats say they are prepared to weather a fiscal event that could plunge the nation back into recession if the new year arrives without an acceptable compromise.

And they say they claim to care about the middle class, while they freely admit to destroying it.

30 posted on 07/16/2012 4:43:42 AM PDT by matt04
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To: sunmars; Fred Nerks

Democrats threaten to go over ‘fiscal cliff’ if GOP fails to raise taxes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

The dems know for sure we are going over a fiscal cliff, and that as a result, their entitlement programs ALL will go South.Thety are simply ants scurrying about to get the last milk out of a soon to be dead cow.Their former socialist Utopia has vanished before their eyes, and this has radicalized them into a movement of liberal fascists.

Weathering their storm is a challenge, but just allowing them to proceed will be exceedingly destructive of the 1st Republic. This alone assures their eventual demise.

It would be good to be rid of them on November 6th. But America does not really know their game.....YET, and Romney is now muffing his opportunity to inform America of the truth.

Obama and his minions mean to destroy America and replace it with a Utopia in which no one will be free, since they have killed their own host, as all parasites do in the end.Thats the bottom line.

Good Read:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html


31 posted on 07/16/2012 4:51:03 AM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascism article: http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html)
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To: detective
Republicans need to stand up for principles and call the Democrat’s bluff. Democrats count on Republicans being weak.

Problem is that these automatic cuts, based on a supercommittee fail, were McConnell's grand bargain with his buddy Reid. It was the plan all along.

32 posted on 07/16/2012 4:51:41 AM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: sunmars

If going off a cliff means that the traitorous ‘Rats and RINOs infesting the Halls of Congress end up splattered on the rocks below, then I say “Thelma? Grab Louise by the arm, and PEDAL TO THE METAL!!!”


33 posted on 07/16/2012 4:53:43 AM PDT by mkjessup (Romney is to conservatism what Helen Thomas is to a high fashion model walkway.)
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To: sunmars

What are the odds that the Republicans will cave?


34 posted on 07/16/2012 4:54:12 AM PDT by sport
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To: DemforBush

And even more about the fools that elect them. It also answers the question of how the Republic was lost.


35 posted on 07/16/2012 4:56:36 AM PDT by sport
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To: sunmars

The debt ceiling will be reached in October by current projections. This is no time to back off from the Dems. Take them to the mat and blame them for it all—their failure to produce budgets, to stimulate the economy, and all the lot.


36 posted on 07/16/2012 5:02:40 AM PDT by CaspersGh0sts
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To: SatinDoll
Eliminate those U.S.Departments of the Federal Government not explicitly described as powers granted to the Feds in the U.S.Constitution

BUMP!

37 posted on 07/16/2012 5:08:09 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: sunmars

This needs to be rephrased and broadcast:

“Democrats threaten to force America into lasting Depression if GOP wins election. Will destroy economy if they lose power.”


38 posted on 07/16/2012 5:11:36 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: radu
These Dimowits seem to forget there are a lot of wealthy democRat voters in the country.

They may lose a few, but--There's always more poor than rich. There's always a bigger wallet over there. Envy is a very powerful strategy with a natural constituency. It has a built-in majority of prospects. It doesn't always win over principle, but it does more often then not. The Dems will "dance with the one that brung 'em."

39 posted on 07/16/2012 5:20:25 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: radu

Maybe.

There are a lot of hurting people who are mad that the Banksters got a pass. I can see this playing the other way.


40 posted on 07/16/2012 5:20:25 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

You don’t know the average voter then. According to them the Democrats are for the “little guy”.and everything they do is to help the “little guy:. Their brain cannot recognize any thing different. It can only spew slogans like: “It is all Bush’s fault”; “Nixon did it too”.


41 posted on 07/16/2012 5:27:50 AM PDT by sport
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I’m with you.

Everyone should be forced to pay $10 for a US, union made screw driver just to change a light switch, instead of paying $1 for a Chinese made screw driver to change that light switch.


42 posted on 07/16/2012 5:31:55 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: Timber Rattler
“these automatic cuts, based on a supercommittee fail, were McConnell's grand bargain with his buddy Reid. It was the plan all along.”

Reid and the Democrats count on the Republicans being weak and this agreement was just one more example of it. Republicans need to stand up for principles and get stop being pressured into making these stupid deals.

43 posted on 07/16/2012 5:33:05 AM PDT by detective
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To: sunmars

Let them do it. Come January and The Messiah being retired then pass the “Bush” tax cuts as permanent and make it retroactive to the day the current bill expires.


44 posted on 07/16/2012 5:42:59 AM PDT by Flint
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To: sunmars

I just DARE the Democrats to sit back and let taxes shoot up for the middle and lower classes.

Not only do I DARE them, I support them, for the following reasons:

1) We are broke, and the only way for the government to increase its revenues at all is to start hitting the lower classes with taxes. Hitting the upper classes simply does not increase revenue, as they get around it. Also, as I’ve been saying now for weeks here, if we DEMAND a $4T government, which IS the case as the poor/middle classes will not give up their welfare (food stamps, AFDC, etc.), and the poor/middle/upper, INCLUDING CONSERVATIVES will NOT give up their welfare (Social Security and Medicare), then we WILL have a $4T government and I am SICK of this debt being shoved on my kids. I’m happy to pay the higher taxes instead - unless this country can come to terms with Social Security and Medicare, which ain’t gonna happen.

2) The Democrats have lied from DAY-1 that the Bush Tax Cuts were just for the rich. I certainly wish that were the case, because we wouldn’t be in such a mess right now if that were the case. If the tax cuts expire, then the country will FINALLY find out just who benefited from them. That’s why the Democrats are BLUFFING right now, just as they were two years ago - they’ll agree to the (stupid) Republican position of extending them all.

3) We are about to automatically chop the crap out of military spending, thanks to the IDIOTIC Republican deal they cut with the Dems (i.e., they exempted SS and Medicare from any cuts). If the deficit isn’t reduced big-time, the military gets hammered. They were IDIOTS agreeing to that.

So that’s it. But mark my words, the president will stop the Dems from going over the cliff on this (and will have them agree to the stupid Republican position), because it will otherwise be a HUGE issue in November, with the tax increases being just 2 months away - and he doesn’t want to deal with that.


45 posted on 07/16/2012 5:46:19 AM PDT by BobL
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To: sunmars

Publicize this.

The Democrats will back down.


46 posted on 07/16/2012 5:46:30 AM PDT by struggle (http://killthegovernment.wordpress.com/)
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To: IMR 4350
Everyone should be forced to pay $10 for a US, union made screw driver just to change a light switch, instead of paying $1 for a Chinese made screw driver to change that light switch.

If you think labor costs are the principal reason manufacturing went to China I've got bad news for you. The degree of automation in America is so great that other factors take precedence, principally taxes and regulation.

47 posted on 07/16/2012 5:49:27 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo: Economic crisis! Zero's eligibility Trumped!! Hillary 2012!!!)
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To: sunmars

The Democrats should all join hands and jump off a cliff now, because after election day, there will be fewer of them.


48 posted on 07/16/2012 5:50:08 AM PDT by popdonnelly (The first priority is get Obama out of the White House.)
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To: sunmars

[Are they going to continue opposing the Democrats’ middle-class tax cut once the slate has been wiped clean? ]

I think she’s missing he fact that the GOP will control both the House and Senate in 2013. Let Obama veto tax cut bills for the midfle class and small businesses over and over until 2016 when President Palin takes over.

Also. Democrats NEVER cut taxes. What they want to do is RAISE TAXES. Didn’t they say over and over that the Bush tax rate cuts were only for the rich?


49 posted on 07/16/2012 5:50:22 AM PDT by KansasGirl
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To: Carry_Okie

Makes no difference where the cost difference comes from.

You still have a $10 screw driver or a $1 screw driver.

DUH!

Get it?


50 posted on 07/16/2012 5:58:38 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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