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Two-Year-Old Bible Study for Homeless at McDonald's No Longer Welcomed
ChristianPost.com ^ | 7-15-12 | Alex Murashko

Posted on 07/16/2012 10:42:04 AM PDT by Houmatt

Christian ministry leader Dawn Martinez was told she could no longer hold the twice-a-week Bible studies she has taught for homeless people for the last two years inside a McDonald's in Camden, N.J. A night manager at the fast food restaurant told her last week that a customer had filed a complaint. Martinez wonders if it could have been because of the topic briefly discussed at one point last Monday – the Muslim faith.

The 33-year-old, who began the ministry to transients and drug addicts two years ago, describes the Bible study group's last meeting on Monday.

"It was a very powerful night. We had one woman join our prayer circle at the table and she was weeping and crying, but that was nothing unusual for our meetings," Martinez told The Christian Post. "I gave the Bible study. We talked about Isaac and Ishmael. I began to give the history on the descendants of Ishmael and the differences between the Christian and the Muslim faiths because the Muslim faith believes the descendants of Ishmael are the chosen people.

(Excerpt) Read more at christianpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: bible; biblestudy; bums; camden; camdencounty; christians; hobos; homeless; mcdonalds
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Can anyone by chance find out exactly which McDonald's this happened at? I would love to post their phone number so people could call and let these anti-Christian clowns (that are not named Ronald) know how I feel.
1 posted on 07/16/2012 10:42:08 AM PDT by Houmatt
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To: Houmatt

McDonald’s is fully within their right to do this.

Harassing the employees won’t do anything. If you want to make a point, never buy those burgers again.


2 posted on 07/16/2012 10:45:42 AM PDT by kegger8r (ABO since 2008)
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To: Houmatt

When you call, make sure you tell them how you feel about property rights.


3 posted on 07/16/2012 10:48:28 AM PDT by Uncle Slayton
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To: kegger8r

And tell them why you aren’t buying their burgers.


4 posted on 07/16/2012 10:54:40 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: Houmatt
We're these homeless people actually buying anything from McDonalds? Or, we're they just taking up space and scaring off paying customers?
5 posted on 07/16/2012 10:57:16 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Greed + Envy = Liberalism)
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To: Uncle Slayton

maybe they complained about homeless people loitering?


6 posted on 07/16/2012 10:58:18 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Houmatt

It’s a place of business, and color me silly, but somehow I doubt that homeless people were the best customers. By Martinez’s own admission weeping and crying in prayer circles wasn’t unusual. Can you say disruptive? I knew that you could.


7 posted on 07/16/2012 11:02:34 AM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: Houmatt

im reminded of the gas station tha allegedly refused to serve a military dude. it went viral before people looked around and found that it most likely never happenned. at least none of the people in the store came forward, the serviceman never was identified, etc.
we often jump to conclusions, kinda like duke lacrosse


8 posted on 07/16/2012 11:03:06 AM PDT by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
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To: massgopguy

Exactly, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that large gatherings of homeless people probably aren’t the best thing for business.


9 posted on 07/16/2012 11:03:46 AM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: Houmatt

McDonald’s has every right to do what they want when it’s their property and their customers.

I would suggest, they have a larger Christian based clientele than they have a Muslim based clientele though.

Is it just me, or does it seem like one Leftist voice seems to carry the weight of millions of Conservative voices.

We get dismissed. The Left voice is treated as if almost holy, certainly at least revered.

One complaint! That’s all it took. Simply amazing...

Imagine a complaint about an Islamic meeting at the McDonalds. Why we’d be the biggest racist bigots on planet earth if we dared raise the issue?

The Left expounds on equal rights. Good for them. On paper it sounds pretty good. It’s what they do with those rights, that makes ‘equal rights’ more equal for some, than others.

Christians, no soup for you... I call poliza...

And so it goes in the 2012 twilight.


10 posted on 07/16/2012 11:10:25 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: Houmatt
There are only two in Camden.

2720 Mount Ephraim Ave Camden (856) 962-8077

1 Haddon Avenue Camden (856) 963-9658 I suspect it was the Haddon Ave one. I have been there...and it is frequented by people I could imagine being offended with any talk against Islam. Draw your own conclusions.

11 posted on 07/16/2012 11:12:05 AM PDT by mick (Central Banker Capitalism is NOT Free Enterprise)
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To: kegger8r

There’s a Burger King right next door to our local Mickey Dees. From now on I want char-broiled.


12 posted on 07/16/2012 11:14:35 AM PDT by kjo (+)
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To: Melas
Color me silly, but 1) they had been meeting for two years without a single complaint. One complaint later, and they have to stop?

And 2) Have you ever heard of something called the First Amendment? You know, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to peaceably assemble? Perhaps you can tell me where it says in the Constitution we forfeit those rights at the threshold of Mickey D's?

13 posted on 07/16/2012 11:24:32 AM PDT by Houmatt (NObama in 2012!)
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To: Houmatt

1. The manager might have been doing it under the radar only for as long as no one said anything.

2. McDonald’s is not public property. You follow their rules or leave.


14 posted on 07/16/2012 11:29:36 AM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: Houmatt
McDonald's is the wrong place to have these meetings UNLESS there is a private room as many of these places have. I would have no problem with that. I want to eat my meal in relative quiet and don't want to hear this stuff or any stuff for that matter.

I was at Panera Bread one day and the booth behind me had one guy giving a business sales speech to 2 other men and he was quite loud. I get out of the office for a nice, quiet lunch not to hear other people jibb jabb.

15 posted on 07/16/2012 11:29:40 AM PDT by trailhkr1 (That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence - Christopher Hitchen)
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To: Houmatt
Have you ever heard of something called the First Amendment? You know, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to peaceably assemble?

Have you ever heard of private property?

16 posted on 07/16/2012 11:32:08 AM PDT by trailhkr1 (That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence - Christopher Hitchen)
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To: Cowboy Bob

Once while lunching at McD’s, I saw a woman walk in with 5 or 6 kids and an ice chest, she fed her kids from the ice chest and then sat and read a book while the kids ran around on the indoor play area. No one bought a thing. There was even a sign on the play area that stated for paying customers only.


17 posted on 07/16/2012 11:36:11 AM PDT by sportutegrl
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To: Houmatt
Have you ever heard of something called the First Amendment? You know, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to peaceably assemble? Perhaps you can tell me where it says in the Constitution we forfeit those rights at the threshold of Mickey D's?

Wow! You are in serious need of some constitutional understanding, because you obviously have absolutely none. The 1st Amendment grants you the freedom to assemble and speak. It does NOT, I repeat NOT, guarantee you a place to assemble or a venue to speak. It does NOT force private property owners to accept speech that they do not approve on the very property that they own, or to accept assemblies that they have no acquiesced to hosting. If you want to exercise 1st Amendment rights do so from your own property or the public park, but don't think for a moment that the 1st Amendment forces anyone to accept your presence on their property.

18 posted on 07/16/2012 11:40:25 AM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: sportutegrl

Excuse me...

But that must be one talented 2 year old to conduct a bible study for the homeless...

This kid’s got a bright future, I’d say.

What?

The bible study is two years old? Oh....

Nevermind.


19 posted on 07/16/2012 11:43:31 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MrB

On a related note, apparently “Your Baby Can Read” is going out of business.


20 posted on 07/16/2012 11:49:41 AM PDT by sportutegrl
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To: sportutegrl

They’re starting up a new company -

“Your Baby Can Proselytize”


21 posted on 07/16/2012 11:51:55 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Melas
Wow! You must be some kind of commie!

Let me put this in the most basic terms for you: The United States Constitution grants me the right to practice my religion wherever and whenever I please. Period. There are places like China and Cuba that have absolutely no qualms placing barriers and caps on religious freedom; that's why Bibles have to be snuck into those countries just so people can know the word of God. Maybe you should go to one of those places since you seem to have a problem with religious freedom.

22 posted on 07/16/2012 11:56:09 AM PDT by Houmatt (NObama in 2012!)
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To: trailhkr1

The solution is obvious: Eat at home if you want peace and quiet. It’s a restaurant, not the bloody library.


23 posted on 07/16/2012 11:58:15 AM PDT by Houmatt (NObama in 2012!)
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To: Houmatt
The managers at the McDonalds welcomed her ministry. It was a complaint, most likely from a SandMonkey®, that squashed the Bible study meetings. If McDs had any cajones, they would let her continue and tell the Muzzie @-hole to take a hike.

"[The manager] said, 'Well you are a Christian and there's other people of other faiths and so people are getting offended.' She said, 'I'm really sorry, but that's just the way it is.' I had to cancel the Bible study."

24 posted on 07/16/2012 12:01:56 PM PDT by twister881
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To: VanDeKoik
1. The manager might have been doing it under the radar only for as long as no one said anything.

But you don't know that. That is complete speculation.

2. McDonald’s is not public property. You follow their rules or leave.

What rules? This had been going on for two years and ended only after a single complaint. That sounds more like someone else's rules than McDonald's.

25 posted on 07/16/2012 12:02:23 PM PDT by Houmatt (NObama in 2012!)
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To: Houmatt
>>>Color me silly, but 1) they had been meeting for two years without a single complaint. One complaint later, and they have to stop?
And 2) Have you ever heard of something called the First Amendment? You know, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to peaceably assemble? Perhaps you can tell me where it says in the Constitution we forfeit those rights at the threshold of Mickey D's? <<<

Point 1 is a decent one. Of course, management might have felt strange about religious meetings being held there, but figured, “We haven't had any complaints.” so they let it go, until there was a complaint.

Point 2: My friend is head of an organization of Communist, Islamic, GLBT, Union Members for Obama. They are looking for a place to “peaceably assemble” and exercise their rights of freedom of religion and freedom of speech, tonight at 11:00 PM. They think your living room would be an ideal location, and since you can't deny them their “constitutional rights”, they will be at your house tonight for their meeting.

In other words, freedom of religion, speech and assembly on the PRIVATE property of others, is severely limited.

26 posted on 07/16/2012 12:04:15 PM PDT by Above My Pay Grade
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To: Houmatt
The United States Constitution grants me the right to practice my religion wherever and whenever I please. Period.

It does no such thing. The Bill of Rights places limits on government, NOT people, private entities, etc.

Do I have a "right" to practice Satanism in your living room?

27 posted on 07/16/2012 12:05:01 PM PDT by gdani
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To: Houmatt

>>>Wow! You must be some kind of commie!
Let me put this in the most basic terms for you: The United States Constitution grants me the right to practice my religion wherever and whenever I please. Period. There are places like China and Cuba that have absolutely no qualms placing barriers and caps on religious freedom; that’s why Bibles have to be snuck into those countries just so people can know the word of God. Maybe you should go to one of those places since you seem to have a problem with religious freedom. <<<

Actually, YOU sound like a Commie, because you do apparently do not believe in private property rights.

Do you believe that the McDonald’s in Camden, my house and your house belong to “the people” or to their legal owners?


28 posted on 07/16/2012 12:10:08 PM PDT by Above My Pay Grade
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To: Houmatt
The United States Constitution grants me the right to practice my religion wherever and whenever I please. Period.

The hell it does. Any property owner can tell you and your religion to packs your bags and practice elsewhere.

There are places like China and Cuba that have absolutely no qualms placing barriers and caps on religious freedom; that's why Bibles have to be snuck into those countries just so people can know the word of God. Maybe you should go to one of those places since you seem to have a problem with religious freedom.

Sorry friend but you'd be a much better fit since you can't grasp the concept of private property. Communism is right up your ally, with the collective owning and controlling everything.

29 posted on 07/16/2012 12:10:18 PM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: Houmatt

1. Hence the usage of “might”.

2. The rules are whatever they want. It is a private business.


30 posted on 07/16/2012 12:19:35 PM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: twister881

:: “[The manager] said, ‘Well you are a Christian and there’s other people of other faiths and so people are getting offended.’ ::

So, does this McD’s advertise that they have been certified “halal”?

Is there an imam there every morning change-over to observe the cleaning from the sausage and bacon preparation?

Otherwise, I’d say the complainant is not a muslim at all since they could not be there at all for fear of contamination. Bet it was a busy-body, elitist Dhimmicrat.


31 posted on 07/16/2012 12:24:39 PM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: Above My Pay Grade; Melas
I am actually trying to figure out why anyone would try to call themselves a conservative while at the same time favor the unconstitutional restriction of religious freedom. I know, you say it is all about private property rights. But let me ask you two questions:

1) I am aware of two retail chains, Wegman's Grocery Stores and Sears, that will not play traditional Christmas music during the holiday season, even as I am certain there have been complaints. Do you agree with them?

2) A young woman here in Georgia was expelled from a university and denied a psychology degree because she had expressed opposition to homosexuality and declined to denounce both her opposition and her faith. Do you agree with the university's actions?

32 posted on 07/16/2012 12:27:25 PM PDT by Houmatt (NObama in 2012!)
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To: Houmatt

The United States Constitution grants me the right to practice my religion wherever and whenever I please. Period.

<><><><><

Sweet!!!

My posse of lesbian anarchist satanists has been looking for a place to practice our religion.

I hope 11pm in your master bedroom won’t be too much of an imposition, but like you say, the United States Constitution grants me the right to practice my religion wherever and whenever I please. Period.

Thanks, but we’ll bring our own refreshments. Bloody Marys.

Oh, and maybe you want to retake that course in the Constitution of the US. You seem to have missed a few things the first time. Like the whole thing.


33 posted on 07/16/2012 12:30:57 PM PDT by dmz
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To: twister881

McDonald’s are individually owned LLC’s doing business as “McDonald’s”. Does anyone know if McDonald’s beef is Halal?


34 posted on 07/16/2012 12:41:51 PM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Houmatt

Your two questions have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Wegmans and Sears are free to play whatever music they want at Christmas. How does one agreeing or disagreeing with their decision impact the Constitutionality of their decision?

As for the Georgia woman, is she still able to practice her religion as she sees fit? Yes. But her decision to do so led to her dismissal from the program. Her choice. She should have chosen the program she entered more wisely.

But again, the question is a complete non sequitor when it comes the Constitutional issues under discussion here.


35 posted on 07/16/2012 12:43:04 PM PDT by dmz
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To: massgopguy; Cletus.D.Yokel
Halal or not, there are plenty of Muzzies eating their Sausage McMuffin and McRib sandwiches on a regular basis. And also drinking, smoking, doing drugs, and whoring around...when they are in an infidel country, of course. When not, they just **** goats, camels, and small boys.
36 posted on 07/16/2012 12:47:38 PM PDT by twister881
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel

“...Is there an imam there every morning change-over to observe the cleaning from the sausage and bacon preparation?...”

Mohammedans care about such “cleanliness” only when it suits them. They come into the Columbus, Georgia TGI Fridays with their females wearing full gear to eat from the kitchen that is most famous for pork ribs with Jack Daniels sauce. The bar is there too. Even if they order the Sizzlin Chicken it is coming from the porky kitchen.


37 posted on 07/16/2012 12:49:46 PM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (...even more American that a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: dmz
Your two questions have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Excuse me, troll, but I posted the topic at hand and how those questions may or may not relate to the topic is neither your concern nor your business. In fact, you are neither of the two I am specifically addressing, so why don't you run along and troll someone else, mmkay?

38 posted on 07/16/2012 12:51:19 PM PDT by Houmatt (NObama in 2012!)
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To: Houmatt

1) I disagree with retailers choosing to do it. I do not disagree with their right to do it. They are privately-owned businesses. (If stockholders disagree they should make themselves known)

2) If it is a public university, such as a state college, I absolutely disagree and so does the law. If it is a private university such as a Catholic school, they can make their own rules. No muslims, no right-to-choosers, no gay marriage advocates, nada.


39 posted on 07/16/2012 12:53:46 PM PDT by beelzepug ("Blind obedience to arbitrary rules is a sign of mental illness")
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To: Houmatt

LOL.

Public thread, mmmkay? I’ll comment as I please.

It is shocking to see such ignorance of the US Constitution here of all places.

See you tonight at 11.


40 posted on 07/16/2012 12:57:25 PM PDT by dmz
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To: kegger8r

“McDonald’s is fully within their right to do this.”

McDonald’s is also fully within their rights to tell that one complainant to pound sand. Whatever they decide is best for the business.


41 posted on 07/16/2012 12:57:53 PM PDT by beelzepug ("Blind obedience to arbitrary rules is a sign of mental illness")
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To: Houmatt

First Amendment stops at private property. As it was supposed to. You come into my business or home and start saying stuff I don’t agree with and you’re out the door.

The smart way to play this - and the proper way to play it - is called using LEVERAGE and if they are in the wrong, you embarrass and shame them and convince people not to patronize them unless they publicly change their policy.

But a private business does get to determine what goes on and what groups it will allow to use their facilities. Do I think there’s something coincidental about the complaint and the last meeting’s topic? Sure. And that’s where you begin the campaign to expose people to what they did and to stop patronizing the place, and letting them know why they aren’t customers anymore.


42 posted on 07/16/2012 1:00:11 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: dmz
Public thread, mmmkay? I’ll comment as I please.

No, you won't. You just think you will. You have neither the right nor the authority to play watchdog in a thread that is not even yours and decide for me or anyone else who or what is relevant. If you don't like the queestions I am asking, you know what you should do? Move to another thread, not deliberately try to pick a fight with the OP, which is what you are doing.

43 posted on 07/16/2012 1:05:00 PM PDT by Houmatt (NObama in 2012!)
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To: Houmatt

You don’t have the right to come into my house whenever and wherever you want and practice your religion if I don’t want you there doing that. The same laws apply to private businesses. And you can try to practice your religion in a federal building, but they may very well remove you on an unrelated charge, disturbing the peace, if you make a nuisance of yourself while doing it.

You need to read up on the concept of private property.

Further the Federal Constitution is the operating rules and limiters on the Federal government. Not state and local governments, not private businesses, not private citizens. States have powers over areas not enumerated in the federal Constitution and thus have laws on the books on these issues the federal government does not.

Rights only extend to where they do not infringe on another person’s or group’s rights. That’s why we have courts, to determine where this line of infringement occurs.


44 posted on 07/16/2012 1:07:47 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Houmatt

Sucks to be wrong, doesn’t it? Get over it.


45 posted on 07/16/2012 1:09:26 PM PDT by beelzepug ("Blind obedience to arbitrary rules is a sign of mental illness")
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To: twister881

Sandmonkey is a racist term. “Sand People” or “Jawas” are the preferred terms.


46 posted on 07/16/2012 1:09:26 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Houmatt
You have neither the right nor the authority to play watchdog in a thread that is not even yours and decide for me or anyone else who or what is relevant.

But, according to your own "understanding" of the First Amendment, doesn't he have the right to say whatever he wants, wherever he wants. Period?

47 posted on 07/16/2012 1:10:48 PM PDT by gdani
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To: beelzepug

Am I wrong??


48 posted on 07/16/2012 1:12:13 PM PDT by Houmatt (NObama in 2012!)
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To: Houmatt

Do you think you have any First Amendment rights to post whatever you want on Free Republic?


49 posted on 07/16/2012 1:15:18 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Houmatt
Am I wrong??

Please tell us all you're really joking and that you really do understand the Bill of Rights limits the government only, not private businesses, entities, people, etc.

50 posted on 07/16/2012 1:15:47 PM PDT by gdani
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