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The Light That Failed (Episcopal Church)
American Interest ^ | 7/16/2012 | Walter Russell Mead

Posted on 07/16/2012 5:43:07 PM PDT by RightGeek

New numbers reveal that the collapse of the Episcopal Church dramatically accelerated in the last ten years. The denomination is literally falling apart, with attendance down 25% between 2000 and 2010.

For a link to the PDF file with the numbers, and for Rod Dreher’s comments on them, look here; but it’s important to note that the effect of these numbers on the life and the well being of local churches is even greater than the raw figures might suggest.

Many mainline Protestant congregations today are stuck with an infrastructure built in the 1950s and 1960s. There are buildings to maintain and salaries to pay. As congregations have dwindled and aged, it gets harder and harder to keep the place running. The congregation has less money for program, for outreach, for anything but survival, and the energy of the congregation turns inward. There is less going on that can attract new members, and each year more maintenance is deferred, more corners are cut, and the congregation gets a little smaller and a little greyer.

Ten years ago, roughly half of Episcopal parishes faced this kind of situation. Ten years of declining attendance on this scale means that many more parishes are now in survival mode. As the church’s resources decline, more and more of the energy and the funds of its members go to staving off collapse. Less and less is available for the wider world.

The numerical decline, bad as it is, matters less than the collapse in the moral authority of the church. The Episcopal Church has made many controversial pronouncements on social issues; at the latest General Convention the church declared that transgendered persons cannot automatically be barred from the priesthood. One can agree or disagree with some of these individual decisions, but what is striking over time is the decline in the moral weight of the church.

It used to matter what the Episcopal Church thought of this or that social issue. Other mainline Protestant churches and many social and political leaders followed its theological and political debates. Now, basically, no one outside the dwindling flock in the pews really cares what The Episcopal Church says about anything at all. General Convention can pass a million resolutions, and nothing anywhere will change. No one is even really angry anymore at anything the Episcopal hierarchy does; at most, there is a sigh and a quiet rolling of the eyes. Soon, there will not even be that.

It’s an extraordinary decline in an institution that a generation ago was still one of the pillars of American life. At this point the disaster appears irretrievable; those running the church are determined to run it into the ground and it is hard to see how that can change.

For Anglicans, the theological and demographic collapse of their church is a bitter blow. The traditions of this church exert a powerful hold on those who were raised in it; those declining attendance figures bespeak a lot of sadness and despair. But The Episcopal Church has moved on, headed down what looks increasingly like the theological path of least resistance as it makes the transition from a church that once spoke to a nation to a sect in communion only with itself.

Let us wish The Episcopal Church well on its journey towards whatever hope its bureaucrats and functionaries see glimmering ahead of them in the deepening twilight. God moves in mysterious ways, and the failure of a church is not the failure of a faith. Christianity is all about hope in the face of death; America’s Anglicans are learning a lot about what that means. For this, perhaps, we need to learn to be thankful.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: anglican; church; ecusa; episcopagans; espiscopal; fauxchristians; gaychurch; homosexualagenda; icky; religiousleft; schism; tec
Last one out please turn off the lights.
1 posted on 07/16/2012 5:43:11 PM PDT by RightGeek
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To: RightGeek

When the cancer of apostasy eats into the leadership of a church, it inevitably dies. God Word will prevail against the gates of hell.


2 posted on 07/16/2012 5:46:48 PM PDT by txrefugee
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To: aberaussie; Aeronaut; aliquando; AlternateViewpoint; AnalogReigns; Archie Bunker on steroids; ...
In August of 2001 the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) estabalished a "Full Communion Partnership" with The Episcopal Church through the adoption of "Called to Common Mission".

Therefore:



Lutheran (EL C S*A) Ping!

* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.

Be rooted in Christ!

3 posted on 07/16/2012 5:48:18 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini--nevertheless, Vote Santorum!)
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To: RightGeek
The denomination is literally falling apart, with attendance down 25% between 2000 and 2010.

And they feel good about it, just like government pleasing and catering to the few as they sh!t on the majority in doing so.

4 posted on 07/16/2012 5:52:03 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: RightGeek
I was in the The Episcopal Church 20 years ago and left.

They REPLACED biblical teaching with the latest socialist and PC crap. Even back then.

I heard pro-gay sermons, I heard anti-gun sermons, I heard sermons that equated people with AIDS to saints, I heard we need to raise taxes sermons, I heard that the miracles in the Bible were probably not miracles, etc.

Nothing was BASED on the Bible. I would go home frustrated and mad. Soon, i started giving less and less on the offering plate.

Then I left and eventually so did most of the congregation.

The Episcopal Church in my town does have the prettiest stone church - right by a lake. I think that is ALL it has now.

BTW - I joined a Bible based Baptist church. It grows and grows every year. They have had to move/build three times in the last 10 years - to a BIGGER church.

5 posted on 07/16/2012 5:53:39 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: RightGeek

Believe in nothing and at the same time believe in everything, and this is what you get.


6 posted on 07/16/2012 5:55:47 PM PDT by super7man
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To: RightGeek

Touchstone magazine has had some excellent articles over the years on the Anglican/Episcopalian church. The only true synod left today is the African convention, as the American and British have now left the tenets of the faith behind in order to be politically correct. Many of the moral leaders still left in America have now sought reconciliation with the catholic church.


7 posted on 07/16/2012 5:57:03 PM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: RightGeek

In our affluent suburban community all the politically correct mainline Protestant churches are dying.

The Roman Catholic church, the Baptists, the independents and our church, the church of the Nazarene - you know, the ones that still take the Bible seriously - are all doing just fine, thank you very much.

Young people are hungry for truth and morality, and they are flocking to these churches in droves. The crumbling infrastructure of the mainline churches is not their real estate, but their theology.


8 posted on 07/16/2012 5:58:37 PM PDT by Wife of D28Man
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To: RightGeek

there is an Episcopal Church in a town less than an hour from where I live that has doubled in size in the past ten years. Of course, the rector is a conservative traditionalist. The congregation has a good mixture but predominately is conservative. It seems they leave their personal differences outside the church door when they enter and kneel before the altar. However most other churches have lost membership.


9 posted on 07/16/2012 6:03:09 PM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: 2banana

I belong to an Episcopal Church in CT. It’s just the opposite. They sermons are invariably based on the day’s readings. No politics has ever been mentioned by any of the four rotating ministers. I feel pretty good going there. The church is mostly made up of Catholics who go there to get away from the Catholic Church’s weekly begging for money and animosity towards its own parishioners.


10 posted on 07/16/2012 6:04:35 PM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: RightGeek
I usually try to avoid too many comments about various churches but it is a real shame to see the Episcopals (and at least one of the big Presbyterian denominations) abandoning ... or in some cases teaching directly Against...Biblical teachings. (It IS possible to "modernize" a church quite a bit without walking it away from God, but plainly those in charge have another agenda.)
11 posted on 07/16/2012 6:04:51 PM PDT by faithhopecharity
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To: RightGeek; lightman; 2banana; All

I would appreciate if someone could tell me, aren’t there “two” Episcopal churches in the U.S.? ELCA... and another, more conservative version? Also, how does the American Episcopal church (one, or both versions) fit with the Church of England?

Thank you.


12 posted on 07/16/2012 6:05:07 PM PDT by workerbee (June 28, 2012 -- 9/11 From Within)
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To: EGPWS

They might consider:” On Christ the solid rock I stand. All other ground is sinking sand.”IMHO


13 posted on 07/16/2012 6:05:21 PM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
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To: RightGeek

there is an Episcopal Church in a town less than an hour from where I live that has doubled in size in the past ten years. Of course, the rector is a conservative traditionalist. The congregation has a good mixture but predominately is conservative. It seems they leave their personal differences outside the church door when they enter and kneel before the altar. However most other churches have lost membership.


14 posted on 07/16/2012 6:05:26 PM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: RightGeek
Last one out please turn off the lights.

Many are finding the true light in the Anglican Church of North America (ACNA)

http://anglicanchurch.net

15 posted on 07/16/2012 6:06:59 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini--nevertheless, Vote Santorum!)
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To: workerbee

The ACNA—see my post # 15 for link.


16 posted on 07/16/2012 6:11:43 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini--nevertheless, Vote Santorum!)
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To: 2banana
They REPLACED biblical teaching with the latest socialist and PC crap.

And eventually paganism. Oh wait, that is already occurring.

17 posted on 07/16/2012 6:16:41 PM PDT by sr4402
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To: 2banana
I resigned my position as senior warden of my parish shortly after Vicki Gene was ordained as bishop.

Lots of prayer over this decision. The Holy Spirit impressed upon me to take my family and flee. We did.

In the last days at this parish, I wrote the bishop a letter expressing my disappointment in his leadership of the diocese. Bishop Wimberly time and again promised the diocese of Texas would remain conservative. He misled the folks.

My last words to Wimberly was that the Episcopal church was decaying from within. He wrote back categorically denying this was the case.

A decade later, The Episcopal diocese of Texas voted to condone homosexual relationships within the church.

I am a member of the Anglican Church in America. There is a growing conservative Anglican movement within the United States.

18 posted on 07/16/2012 6:31:37 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: 2banana

I know exactly what you mean. Liberal church services are like going to a DNC convention (diversity racist anti-white screeds, and all) speech. Sick and sad.

These ‘churches’ only survived in communist nations because the State had the power to dictate and enforce the communist party line. As the liberal church progress here, they are becoming communism’s atheist/humanist party meetings.


19 posted on 07/16/2012 6:34:13 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: workerbee

ELCA is the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the largest US Lutheran church, generally very liberal.

The Episcopal Church is the US branch of the Church of England, both very liberal with a small minority of conservative holdouts.


20 posted on 07/16/2012 6:41:38 PM PDT by iowamark
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To: onedoug

Ping


21 posted on 07/16/2012 6:43:09 PM PDT by windcliff
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To: iowamark
E xtremely
L ibertine
C ult of
A ntinomianism

22 posted on 07/16/2012 6:46:53 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini--nevertheless, Vote Santorum!)
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To: iowamark; lightman

Ohmygosh, I can’t believe I messed that up!!! Yes, I knew that ELCA was Lutheran, sorry about that. I was trying to ascertain how the U.S. Episcopal Church (of which there is one, yes?) fits with the Anglican Church (of England, internationally, etc.?) Lightman, will check out your link, thanks.

Again, I apologize for the mistake.


23 posted on 07/16/2012 6:50:40 PM PDT by workerbee (June 28, 2012 -- 9/11 From Within)
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To: raybbr
"I belong to an Episcopal Church in CT. It’s just the opposite. They sermons are invariably based on the day’s readings. No politics has ever been mentioned by any of the four rotating ministers. I feel pretty good going there. The church is mostly made up of Catholics who go there to get away from the Catholic Church’s weekly begging for money and animosity towards its own parishioners."

What a nasty thing to say. This is a thread about the Episcopal Church. Your nasty, petty, unkind, remark was quite unnecessary.

If you have confession in your Episcopal Church, you might want to think about going.
24 posted on 07/16/2012 6:51:23 PM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore (If Obama were twice as smart as he is, he would be a wit)
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To: Not gonna take it anymore

Our former bishop, now Jolette, Indiana’s problem, exemplifies that statement. He closed nine churches. Although mine was one of those, I understood why. Attendance was down because population decreased from when many churches were built. However, he then demanded, saying that God instructed (?!), that we give $9 million for a new cathedral. Needless to say this did not go over well. Those who sent their WWII checks to build the current cathedral were now being asked to leave their life’s savings for the new?


25 posted on 07/16/2012 7:12:31 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Not gonna take it anymore

Our former bishop, now Jolette, Indiana’s problem, exemplifies that statement. He closed nine churches. Although mine was one of those, I understood why. Attendance was down because population decreased from when many churches were built. However, he then demanded, saying that God instructed (?!), that we give $9 million for a new cathedral. Needless to say this did not go over well. Those who sent their WWII checks to build the current cathedral were now being asked to leave their life’s savings for the new?


26 posted on 07/16/2012 7:12:31 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: RightGeek

The same thing is happening with our nation.


27 posted on 07/16/2012 7:18:50 PM PDT by donna (Mitt quote: ..gay couples raising kids. That's the American way..(Penn St feels same about showers))
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To: Not gonna take it anymore

‘Your nasty, petty, unkind, remark was quite unnecessary.’

But telling, no?


28 posted on 07/16/2012 7:23:26 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: RightGeek

The main problem with them is that they have an agenda ... theirs, not God’s!


29 posted on 07/16/2012 7:30:58 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (Skittle pooping unicorns are more common than progressives with honor & integrity.)
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To: RightGeek
the decline in the moral weight

The disease that is roaring through numerous organizations.

30 posted on 07/16/2012 7:35:29 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: workerbee
ELCA, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, is the liberal version of the Lutheran Church. There are several more conservative Lutheran denominations, but the main one is the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church.

FYI only.

31 posted on 07/16/2012 7:38:24 PM PDT by Prov3456
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To: Wife of D28Man

“the ones that still take the Bible seriously - are all doing just fine, thank you very much.”

Why go to a church that doesn’t believe in anything? I mean there are plenty of health clubs, the Rotary or Toastmasters if you just want a community of friends.

Here is my take on the deity of Christ creed: http://gillespiepoems.blogspot.com/2012/06/of-many-worlds-comments-on-nature-of.html


32 posted on 07/16/2012 7:43:22 PM PDT by garjog
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To: Prov3456

Thanks, I don’t know where my head was! See #23, I really do know ELCA is a Lutheran sect!! lol


33 posted on 07/16/2012 7:45:40 PM PDT by workerbee (June 28, 2012 -- 9/11 From Within)
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To: raybbr
The church is mostly made up of Catholics who go there to get away from the Catholic Church’s weekly begging for money...

LOL! I hear this all the time from disaffected Catholics, even some who attend the same Parish as I. I don't know how they get the notion that the Church is always begging for money. In my 24 years in this Parish, I've heard exactly three sermons suggesting that folks think seriously about supporting the Parish, and two of those were in the past five years when the Parish was planning to build an addition to the Church/School building.

There have been a couple of other times that the head of the Finance Committee gave a little talk after Communion, and just before the final blessing. Many were shocked to learn that the average 'offering' from among the 1800 families that received envelopes for contributions each year was a whopping $4. When they realized just how LITTLE was being given, some did increase their contributions, but it wasn't because of badgering, it was because they were gently encouraged to do so.

Sometimes there is a Second Collection, or a fundraiser for some organization or the other, but usually there is simply an announcement about it.

34 posted on 07/16/2012 8:19:47 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Shery
MOST of the developing world provinces of the Anglican communion are VERY orthodox, and growing too, not those only in Africa. Even in Africa there are something like 60 MILLION+ orthodox/bible-believing Anglicans--growing by the 100s of thousands every year.

So outside of the West, things are really looking up for the World's 2nd largest Christian denomination.

Even in England--despite that country's wholesale abandonment of the Church (something less than 5% attend church at all), of those who still do attend church, something like 1/3 are conservative/evangelical types--a higher percentage than those in mainline American denominations.

In the USA the newly formed Anglican Church in North America (ACNA)--with conservative/orthodox EX-Episcopalian American bishops, working with African and other foreign bishops, are doing well in building up the NEW Anglicans here in the states.

Worldwide Anglicanism is more and more getting away from depending on the weak and ineffective leadership of Canterbury...as the robust churches in the developing world are asking themselves 'We're following the lead of the decrepit English Church because what?'

Over 100,000 Americans worship in non-Episcopal Anglican (usually ACNA) churches now. So...Anglicanism as a very old form of orthodox Christianity, still exists and is growing, thank you--in spite of the apostasy and dissolution of the Episcopal Church.

35 posted on 07/16/2012 8:27:09 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (reality is analog, not digital...)
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To: RightGeek; Plutarch; All
Well...twas an episcopalian freeper--a Mittbot named plutarch -- who gave the fr "flying inmans" their name. {See...they still have some influence}
36 posted on 07/16/2012 8:46:34 PM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: windcliff; stylecouncilor
St. Mary of the Angels fight drags on
37 posted on 07/16/2012 9:05:49 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: lightman
Thanks for the ping, lightman.

2nd Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables.

After years of watching the denominational "leadership" (I mean that in the same vein that Tinkerbell was part of the leadership cadre there in NeverNeverLand) within the elca, pcusa, tec, et cetera, being driven by the itching in their ears, it has finally come down to simply being too mundane, too common, and too tedious to get up in arms about any longer.

Even the redoubtable Vicke Gene Robinson recently complained that "[his "marital status"] is nobody's damn business." virtue on line Vicke made sure it was everybody's business a few years ago, though. This religious pioneering and moral groundbreaking stuff is tough duty. Seems it can wear on a chap.

Seems the fabric is getting a bit frayed, tawdry, and tiresome.

(yaw-n-n-n) Bedtime...g'night, all y'all.

38 posted on 07/16/2012 9:51:09 PM PDT by RobinOfKingston (The instinct toward liberalism is located in the part of the brain called the rectal lobe.)
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To: raybbr; SuziQ; Not gonna take it anymore

A message to these “Catholics” that attend the Episcopal church in Connecticut: “Good riddance!!!” The Episcopal church can have them.

They think nothing of spending $5 at Starbucks for coffee or $10 to see a lousy movie at the theater, but whine and complain when it comes to supporting their church on Sundays. Who do they think pays the heating and a/c bill, the priest’s salary and expenses, the janitor, the grounds keeper, cleaning supplies, the bread and wine, the religious education programs for the children, insurance, etc. etc.??? Don’t they realize everyone else has the extra burden of paying their way too?


39 posted on 07/17/2012 2:09:33 AM PDT by dupree
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To: Not gonna take it anymore
What a nasty thing to say. This is a thread about the Episcopal Church. Your nasty, petty, unkind, remark was quite unnecessary. If you have confession in your Episcopal Church, you might want to think about going.

Oh, you're funny. I report to you what people have told me about why they moved to the church and you tell me I've sinned.

What's that about judging others the Church teaches us?

40 posted on 07/17/2012 3:34:55 AM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: dupree
They think nothing of spending $5 at Starbucks for coffee or $10 to see a lousy movie at the theater, but whine and complain when it comes to supporting their church on Sundays. Who do they think pays the heating and a/c bill, the priest’s salary and expenses, the janitor, the grounds keeper, cleaning supplies, the bread and wine, the religious education programs for the children, insurance, etc. etc.??? Don’t they realize everyone else has the extra burden of paying their way too?

Awwwww! Did you get offended?

I am on our church's vestry. I know exactly how the bills are paid. We get a report every month. We pay all our own bills and we also send out thousands to our Cluster for the ministry of the Church.

Do you sit on your Catholic church's board? Are you allowed to vote on what gets done? Or, does the church take your donations and do what they want with them?

A message to these “Catholics” that attend the Episcopal church in Connecticut: “Good riddance!!!” The Episcopal church can have them.

BTW, that's the second most stated reason they left: The intransigence of their fellow Catholics and their lack of compassion.

41 posted on 07/17/2012 3:40:43 AM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: AnalogReigns
MOST of the developing world provinces of the Anglican communion are VERY orthodox

The sentence reveals two problems with your ecclesiology.

First, MOST is not ALL. And the "Anglican Communion" has no mechanism to turn most into all, and therefore no mechanism to overcome the Gates of Hell into which ECUSA is disappearing (along with CoE), so the delusion that Anglicans are in some way "catholic" is falsified.

Second, there is no such thing as VERY orthodox. An orthodoxy which requires adjectival modification is actually heterodoxy.

I feel very bad for my continuing Anglican brothers and sisters. I still love the rite.

But it's time to give it up.

42 posted on 07/17/2012 3:42:07 AM PDT by Jim Noble (Diseases desperate grown are by desperate appliance relieved or not at all.)
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To: dupree
Exactly. My husband always jokes about the numbers of late model cars in the parking lot, compared to the weekly collection totals. My b-i-l, who is Pastor of a Parish on the MS Gulf Coast has a weekly collection almost equal to ours, with 1000 fewer families. But he DOES give sermons on sacrificial giving and tithing, and it touches the folks who actually take their faith seriously.

Northeastern Catholics have what I've heard called the 'deep pockets-short arms' attitude when it comes to giving to their Parishes. They still have the notion that they are 'immigrants' who don't have the money to support the Church. But their parents and grandparents DID give money to help build the large churches standing empty in the inner cities, while helping their children get the education they never had. Their children moved up and out into the suburbs, started raising their own kids, and complain about supporting the churches in those comfortable suburbs.

43 posted on 07/17/2012 11:34:06 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ

Exactly. Since I became Catholic my giving has increased many times over.

To my parish, to EWTN, to Food for the Poor (I bought a goat, what a kick that was, lol) to St. Vincent dePaul Society and to Peter’s Pence and the food bank with groceries.

Please understand that I am not saying I give like the widow in the Bible who gave her very last mite. I’m just saying that is is truly wonderful that God has given me so very much and it is wonderful to give back. It really is better to give than to receive.

It is amazing how much money we actually have to give to others.

And not just money. I have the honor to bring communion to the sick and elderly. How awesome is that? What a blessing Sunday has become, not only for the Mass but for the communion which brings such joy to shut-ins, sick, and nursing home residents.

Thank you, God, for making me Catholic.


44 posted on 07/17/2012 7:09:42 PM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore (If Obama were twice as smart as he is, he would be a wit)
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To: Not gonna take it anymore

Glad you’re home!


45 posted on 07/17/2012 10:28:01 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: raybbr

Offended? People are free to worship as they please. I don’t really care about these people—I don’t know them. I sorta feel sorry for them. They had diamonds in their pockets and went off searching for rhinestones. My church will be there for me regardless of their actions, since Christ did say he would be with us until the end of the age.

Your new friends are probably naive, too. The Church makes very few changes. If they want female clergy, gay marriage, approval for abortion, etc. they can go to the Episcopal or Universalist whatever-it’s-called Church and find those things.

Our church, like most, has a finance council and a parish council. Members are free to run to serve on these boards. If your new friends had a beef with the church they could have run to serve and make changes, but I guess they chose to pick up their marbles and run home. Our church also keeps track of every dime it receives. We receive a financial report every year with specific details of how the money is spent. I don’t concern myself with the finances—I’m there to receive the sacraments and hear the Word of the Lord. I have attended my current church for 20+ years and have only been asked once to give more—it was during the recession when contributions fell off and bills needed to be paid. I even once had a priest say that we were not obligated to donate to every cause, but to pick and choose the ones that you could support. And if you couldn’t support them, don’t.

Lack of compassion? I’m sure your new friends probably never heard of Catholic Charities. I donate throughout the year when possible and at Christmas to support the House of Charity, a homeless shelter. Many of our churches have St. Vincent de Paul collections for food to feed the needy. We provide Christmas baskets with turkeys to many families. My niece once went to the emergency room at our Catholic hospital. She couldn’t afford to pay and the hospital reduced the bill to next to nothing.


46 posted on 07/18/2012 12:23:26 AM PDT by dupree
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To: dupree
Lack of compassion? I’m sure your new friends probably never heard of Catholic Charities.

I actually meant lack of compassion toward fellow parishioners.

Your new friends are probably naive, too.

Yep, everybody's naive but Catholics, right?

My church will be there for me regardless of their actions, since Christ did say he would be with us until the end of the age.

Since we also worship Christ and have the same Sacraments as you how does that make us all that different?

. I don’t concern myself with the finances—I’m there to receive the sacraments and hear the Word of the Lord. I have attended my current church for 20+ years and have only been asked once to give more—it was during the recession when contributions fell off and bills needed to be paid.

Lucky you! At the Catholic churches I went to after every sermon there was a plea for money for some such charity and two collections. Now that I think of it, I'm not sure I believe you.

Many of our churches have St. Vincent de Paul collections for food to feed the needy. We provide Christmas baskets with turkeys to many families.

And, guess what? We deliver food regularly to the St. Vincent de Paul church near where we live. We take up collections of food. We also take a dinner, cooked mind you, for 65 people at that church every two months. And, we are a very small congregation.

But, you go on thinking that only Catholic churches reach out to the needy, hear the word of Christ, know anything about the Bible, etc. It must make you feel better about your choice to denigrate others' choices otherwise why would you do it?

47 posted on 07/18/2012 2:46:41 AM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: raybbr

If you took my reply as denigration it was not intentional. What do you expect when you, for what reason I am still unsure, label another group of people “beggars” and accuse them of having “animosity” toward others, comments that most would find denigrating? Surely you knew it would raise some eyebrows.

Call it a truce and agree that it’s okay to disagree. Christians get enough crap from the Left anyway. We don’t need to dish it out against other Christians.

One other point: (Don’t take this as a personal attack—it’s just an observation.) I remember reading about a study done in 2010 that found the Catholic Church’s membership rose while the Episcopal Church’s declined. I wonder why.


48 posted on 07/20/2012 2:10:06 AM PDT by dupree
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