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A Simple Question: Is it Possible for a Successful Business Person to be a Socialist?

Posted on 07/18/2012 11:10:31 AM PDT by jda

The Community Organizer-in-Chief's latest evidence of his extreme, left-wing, socialist religion suggest two questions.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: conservatism; socialism
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With the Community Organizer-in-Chief's latest evidence of his extreme, left-wing, socialist religion, two obvious, although related, questions occur to me:

1. Is it possible for a successful business person (someone who knows what it's like to try to comply with government regulations, to have to make a payroll, etc., etc., etc.) to be a socialist?

2. Are socialists only those who have never had a real job?

1 posted on 07/18/2012 11:10:42 AM PDT by jda
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To: jda
If their business derives their income under the guise of a non-profit.
2 posted on 07/18/2012 11:14:07 AM PDT by Average Al (Forbidden fruit leads to many jams.)
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To: jda

Yes. ANYONE can make a deal with the Devil...

3 posted on 07/18/2012 11:15:16 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1274 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Heroes aren't made Frank, they're cornered...)
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To: jda
1. Is it possible for a successful business person (someone who knows what it's like to try to comply with government regulations, to have to make a payroll, etc., etc., etc.) to be a socialist?

Yes. I think we have a number of successful (rich) individuals who are backers of Obama, which says to me they are in favor of the socialist ideology.

2. Are socialists only those who have never had a real job?

No, some of them have real jobs and have worked hard and are rich. They are in favor of socialism because they believe they will be part of the ruling elite if that ever comes to pass. They don't think they will lose any of the perks of having money. Only the peons who need someone to rule over them (everyone else) will be without.

4 posted on 07/18/2012 11:15:16 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: jda

It’s called “crony capitalism”

Where a person/company curries favor with government and government assists the person/company and penalizes its competitors.

Baraq and ValJ have a masters degree in “operations” from Chicago political mob and are experts in this.


5 posted on 07/18/2012 11:15:32 AM PDT by nascarnation
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To: null and void; jda

Yes, Mike Bloomberg.


6 posted on 07/18/2012 11:16:10 AM PDT by wastedyears ("God? I didn't know he was signed onto the system.")
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To: jda

I submit to you Ben and Jerry’s


7 posted on 07/18/2012 11:17:31 AM PDT by scottteng (Tax government employees til they quit and find something useful to do)
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To: jda

Absolutely. Socialism is a way to lock out their competition. Successful businessmen hate competition and will do anything to keep it out, especially using the government to do it for them.


8 posted on 07/18/2012 11:17:53 AM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: jda
Some co-op's and credit unions seem to work out. But, in reality businesses don't mind rules that harm their competition. So some 'regulations' are fine, as long as it favors 'their' group, in their view.

Or, ya could become PM of France, or POTUS.

9 posted on 07/18/2012 11:18:55 AM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: MEGoody
No, some of them have real jobs and have worked hard and are rich. They are in favor of socialism because they believe they will be part of the ruling elite if that ever comes to pass. They don't think they will lose any of the perks of having money. Only the peons who need someone to rule over them (everyone else) will be without.

Bingo. It's the Original Position Fallacy, as summarized by this quote:

Mrs. Asimov: How pleasant it would be if only we lived a hundred years ago when it was easy to get servants.

Isaac Asimov: It would be horrible... We'd be the servants.

10 posted on 07/18/2012 11:23:00 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: jda

Yes because:

Socialism is about power.

Take Warren Buffett.

He gets rich. He can get so much wealthier if he can be in the inner circle of a government that manipulates the economy.

So he becomes a socialist.

There are only the types that cecome socialists: The intellectuals who sit around the dinner table with a few drinks and talk about how the world should b e, the totally stupid like the two black women on TV that were going to get gas money from obummers “stash? and the power hungry that work the system to their own gain.

In last group are the Warren Buffetts, Pelosis, Reids, etc.

Just had a needle in my eye, so excuse typos, spelling, etc.


11 posted on 07/18/2012 11:23:43 AM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: jda

In terms of (1) is Yes and (2) is No. I cite the example of Robert Owen who ran the New Lanark cotton mill Scotland with some financial success. He became an advocate of Pre-Marx socialism along cooperative lines. He came to American and established the community of New Harmony in Indiana. As one could of predicted it collapsed.


12 posted on 07/18/2012 11:24:34 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: jda

Certainly it’s possible. Michael Berry was just talking about this this morning. Of course they don’t start out that way, but once they get up to the 100 million mark they don’t have much in common with common people any more, and they start feeling guilty because they have sooo much and the “schmaaawlll people” have so little so they become democrats at least publicly.


13 posted on 07/18/2012 11:27:20 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Spriiingtime for islam, and tyranny. Winter for US and frieeends. . .)
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To: jda

Privatize the Upside, Socialize the Downside!


14 posted on 07/18/2012 11:28:30 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Spriiingtime for islam, and tyranny. Winter for US and frieeends. . .)
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To: dfwgator
Successful businessmen hate competition and will do anything to keep it out, especially using the government to do it for them.

Whoa, Nellie.

Are you an occupier, now?

What a leftist thing to say.

15 posted on 07/18/2012 11:28:32 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Izzy Dunne

Well, I would say that HATE is an awfully strong word, but they’ll do anything to be successful, and if that means letting the government destroy the competition, so be it. OTOH, any SMART business man knows they can be cut down by the same blade.


16 posted on 07/18/2012 11:32:22 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Spriiingtime for islam, and tyranny. Winter for US and frieeends. . .)
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To: jda

A Simple Question: Is it Possible for a Successful Business Person to be a Socialist?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes. Provided that Business Person realizes his profits are solely dependent upon the State allowing him to succeed or fail.


17 posted on 07/18/2012 11:33:50 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: ichabod1
OTOH, any SMART business man knows they can be cut down by the same blade.

Which explains why they make those payments to the DNC coffers.

18 posted on 07/18/2012 11:35:56 AM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: jda

The problem with answering such a question or really, almost *any* question is that the question seeks a yes/no answer but the question utilizes words that have multiple meanings.

First, you have to define “successful”. OK, most people would say that is a biz that has a multi-year lifespan, is profitable, and is >>salable<<, meaning, others would agree and ratify those attributes. Someone who built and thus owned such a business would probably not be a socialist, thinking about a sole proprietor. But someone who inherited such a business and owned it as much as the builder of same owned it, might very well be a socialist. Of course, we’re projecting and making a wide generalization in either case. Wind the clock back fifty years, say, to a textile manufacturer located within the US. Maybe the owner of same started on the lower East Side in NYC, was an immigrant at the turn of the century. I would posit that a great many who started businesses under those conditions would, by most measures, favor socialism. And still do, today.

The trouble with these generalities is that one person’s conception of “socialism” is a fairly benevolent situation wherein gov’t provides healthcare, minimum wages, safe working conditions, and these types of things. But we have entered into an era where those “hard-to-argue-with” benefits have morphed into a 1984 carnival of trick-mirror doublespeak and insidious control from on high of almost every aspect of interpersonal relationships that must occur of people to come together in any of those thousand organized purposes we normally speak of “businesses”.


19 posted on 07/18/2012 11:36:34 AM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (This stuff we're going through now, this is nothing compared to the middle ages.)
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To: jda

I might add one of the fathers of Marxism Friedrich Engels worked at a cotton mill in Manchester his father was a partner in. He eventually worked his up to partner. Part of his reason was to financially support Marx.


20 posted on 07/18/2012 11:36:48 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: Izzy Dunne

What’s leftist about believing in the separation of Business and State?


21 posted on 07/18/2012 11:37:10 AM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: jda

In answer to your question, two words: George. Soros.


22 posted on 07/18/2012 11:37:22 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: jda
Yes, it is possible for a successful business person to be a socialist, IF you take into account the real definition of socialism as being a system where government controls most economic decisions.

Why would a businessman want to be a socialist? Because he thinks that HE will have sufficient control and influence over government to prevent it from adversely affecting HIS business, while using his government contacts to cripple potential competitors.

A planned economy is attractive to someone who sees himself as being one of the planners.

23 posted on 07/18/2012 11:39:26 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: Izzy Dunne; dfwgator
Successful businessmen hate competition

I'd agree with this premise, as well. I never met a businessman who wished there was more competition driving his prices lower.

As an investor, I'd love to put my money in a company that has an unregulated monopoly on a desired product.

Unless you've got a different way of interpreting it?

24 posted on 07/18/2012 11:39:52 AM PDT by wbill
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To: ichabod1

Who in the heck are you talking about?

I responded to a post that said “Successful businessmen hate competition and will do anything to keep it out,”.

I’m successful in the sense that I can provide a good living for my family and I’ve had the doors open for almost 12 years now.

So you think that I will “do anything” to keep out the competition?

Why is your opinion of me so low?


25 posted on 07/18/2012 11:40:47 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: ichabod1

Who in the heck are you talking about?

I responded to a post that said “Successful businessmen hate competition and will do anything to keep it out,”.

I’m successful in the sense that I can provide a good living for my family and I’ve had the doors open for almost 12 years now.

So you think that I will “do anything” to keep out the competition?

Why is your opinion of me so low?


26 posted on 07/18/2012 11:40:53 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: jda

I used to wonder why some wealthy people(Kennedy’s) or some successful business people were very far left. I think it is because they already have theirs, so it matters little to them whether someone else has a shot. Study after study shows that socialism prevents upward mobility - the U.S. has historically been a country where someone of modest means can reach the top through smarts and hard work. Here there is more movement up and down than anywhere. And, in my opinion, that is all you can ask for. Socialism kills off the ability to move up and those who are already there just don’t give a damn, in fact making it more difficult for the next guy might be to their advantage.


27 posted on 07/18/2012 11:41:56 AM PDT by PAR
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To: jda
Since i Believe Socialists are the only ones who actually use the poor man to get rich IE unions and union workers are stupid enough to pay to work i say

NO

A person who actually works for a living building their own business from scratch usually takes good employees with then to the top SOCIALISTS use workers good or not to line their own pockets while wages and benefits are peeled and paid for by the worker I've worked for both kinds of Employers and Unions most definitely plan and scheme to relieve you of your wages in any way possible

28 posted on 07/18/2012 11:43:00 AM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK (Any man may make a mistake ; none but a fool will persist in it . { Latin proverb })
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To: PAR

I point back to the Chrysler bailout in the late 70s, the fact Chrysler paid back the loan in immaterial. The point is the government stepped into the marketplace and decided who the winners and losers were. It set a horrible precedent.


29 posted on 07/18/2012 11:44:40 AM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: Attention Surplus Disorder
But someone who inherited such a business and owned it as much as the builder of same owned it, might very well be a socialist.

Inheritors of wealth seem to be more likely to be socialist than the initial creator of wealth. My theory is that the heirs are less likely to be as smart and savvy as the founder, which creates a concern for their ability to compete. Meanwhile, over the years and generations, they've accumulated contacts and relationships with members of the political class, which creates a competitive advantage to the degree that government has power over the economy.

30 posted on 07/18/2012 11:45:41 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: jda; null and void

Null and Void has your answer in post 3.

Soros is a very successful businessman. But he’s a complete socialist.


31 posted on 07/18/2012 11:45:50 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: dfwgator

What’s leftist is your assertion that any and all successful business men will “do anything” to keep out competition.

I’m not your enemy. Please don’t treat me like one.


32 posted on 07/18/2012 11:47:22 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: jda

More correctly, my wife is asking her very liberal mother: “How can you be a democrat and a Christian at the same time, hmmm???


33 posted on 07/18/2012 11:48:30 AM PDT by danamco (-)
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To: Izzy Dunne; PAR

I didn’t mean it come through as “any and all”, although I will say that many do. PAR said it more eloquently than I did in post 27.


34 posted on 07/18/2012 11:51:00 AM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: Izzy Dunne

What? That wasn’t what I was trying to say. I meant that people play for keeps - that’s all. OK, maybe I did imply that people like it when the govt takes down their competition, but I didn’t mean it in a bad way.


35 posted on 07/18/2012 11:51:08 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Spriiingtime for islam, and tyranny. Winter for US and frieeends. . .)
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To: dfwgator

You are absolutely correct. At the highest levels, only more money can be made with Gov’t support and coercion.

In many places, like China and Russia - you simply can not do any business of any worthwhile size without being in bed with Gov’t officials.


36 posted on 07/18/2012 11:51:27 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: wbill
I never met a businessman who wished there was more competition driving his prices lower.

So, is that the only two answers you see?

Either I "hate competition" or I "wished there was more" ?

I don't wish there was more, but I don't hate the idea of competition, either. I got to where I am (and I'm not trying to sound like a tycoon, because I'm certainly not) because of competition. Why should i hate it?

37 posted on 07/18/2012 11:53:24 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: jda
yes, a lot of uber rich entrepreneurs are socialists

I think the key to their belief system is the “Kennedy syndrome”

Other people have to live under socialist rules, but they are the ruling elite, to they don't have to because they and their spawn are so much smarter and more compassionate about mankind than the rest of us.

Therefore the rich socialists jet from one resort and mansion and yacht and cocktail party to another, living off their trust funds and tax shelters, assuring each other that their mission in life to make sure the rest of us have a governing elite that taxes others just enough to keep the little people from challenging their control

38 posted on 07/18/2012 11:57:07 AM PDT by silverleaf (Every human spent about half an hour as a single cell)
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To: jda

Yes it is possible for a socialist to be a successful businessman.

First, he can be a crony capitalist, getting funds and monopoly power from the state.

Second, he can be a hypocrite - socialism for thee, but not for me (i.e. “What I have is mine - what you have we share...”)

We already know about the crony capitalists, but a good example of the hypocritical successful businessman is Armand Hammer (Arm and Hammer products), who was a Soviet agent of influence for most of his life.


39 posted on 07/18/2012 11:57:23 AM PDT by Little Ray (AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: jda
A look at China answers that question... China is capitalizing socialism... or Socializing capitalism which ever way you want to look at it..

Remember the Chinese giverment OWNS everything.. including the people.. The chinese peoples benefit rests on WHO the ruling elite is currently.. The chinese giverment wants and is seeking world domination of socialism like in the very beginning.. under Mao and so does the Russian givernment.. As multi-millions of murdered chinese and russian people testify.. IF they murder their OWN people with such abandon, what is it.. do you think.. they think of YOU... Oh! wait.. didn't we just elect an in your face Marxist as President?... This next election is the most important in American History..

40 posted on 07/18/2012 11:58:21 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: ichabod1
maybe I did imply that people like it when the govt takes down their competition, but I didn’t mean it in a bad way.

< chuckle > Well, I don't see how you could mean that in a good way, but whatever.

I was responding to the idea that "Businessmen [i.e., any and all] hate competition and will do anything to remove it, including government interference", which sounds like something out of an Occupy Someplace manifesto.

41 posted on 07/18/2012 12:01:23 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Little Ray

“What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state, Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do.” - Arthur Jensen (Network)


42 posted on 07/18/2012 12:01:23 PM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: All

Thanks for the responses.

It is obvious that a successful business person can be a socialist and some socialists have held real jobs. But, I think it’s a matter of statistics. From my experience, most successful business people (particularly small business owners that own businesses that actually generate a product - the engine of our economy) are conservatives and most socialists have never held a real, private sector job.


43 posted on 07/18/2012 12:02:35 PM PDT by jda ("Righteousness exalts a nation . . .")
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To: jda
Sure it is. What about the business elite that keep pushing us to ignore China's human rights abuses in order to trade with the Communist regime? Or the characters in the Atlas Shrugged novel that stood by while basic freedoms were eroded in America. Ford was big on social engineering. The Rockerfellar family is all for one world government.
44 posted on 07/18/2012 12:03:10 PM PDT by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: PapaBear3625

“Inheritors of wealth seem to be more likely to be socialist than the initial creator of wealth.”

Agree. We’ve seen this. There’s a piece of guilt over the unearned wealth as well.

An owner of a more mature business may or may not be as smart or savvy as the one who created the enterprise; A more mature business is arguably more vulnerable to competition just because it has been around for longer, naturally breeding imitators. The inheritor of same may be perfectly as savvy as the originator but applies that “wisdom” to preservation versus creation. And, one could argue that in an earlier era, it took less smarts to create a business than wangling one’s way through the current maze of regs that impinge upon the business.

And, I completely omitted mention of the “crony” type of capitalist who seeks to utilize the influence of government to protect their enterprise from competition. Others posted about this phenom.


45 posted on 07/18/2012 12:07:37 PM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (This stuff we're going through now, this is nothing compared to the middle ages.)
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To: windcliff; stylecouncilor

“The hypocrites are taking over everything.”


46 posted on 07/18/2012 12:10:40 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: onedoug

Yeah that’s what I read in chapter 98.


47 posted on 07/18/2012 12:14:09 PM PDT by windcliff
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To: jda; All

Well...in what order? Mitt was 1st a successful businessman...then a successful socialist healthcare pioneer...


48 posted on 07/18/2012 12:20:21 PM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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Click the link. The Republic you save may be your own.

49 posted on 07/18/2012 1:15:54 PM PDT by RedMDer (https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93destr)
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To: Izzy Dunne

Well, beating the competition is kind of the goal, isn’t it?


50 posted on 07/18/2012 1:55:19 PM PDT by ichabod1 (Spriiingtime for islam, and tyranny. Winter for US and frieeends. . .)
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