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The Dark Knight Movie Massacre & Why I Carry a Gun Everywhere I Go
Townhall.com ^ | July 22, 2012 | Doug Giles

Posted on 07/22/2012 7:04:54 AM PDT by Kaslin

I would venture to guess that the folks filing in to see the latest Batman installment in Aurora, Colorado last Thursday evening didn’t figure on over 70 of them getting shot before the credits rolled. The last count I received before filing this column was 12 dead and 59 wounded.

As the news starting pouring in about what happened in the theater this week when Satan’s spawn James Holmes donned Kevlar and a small battery of weapons and opened fire on an unsuspecting crowd, I kept thinking, “One fast-thinking and trained person who was armed/licensed with a concealed weapon could have stopped that SOB right in his tracks before the body count skyrocketed.”

Yep, the armed citizen could have either killed him, sent him running for cover, or at least diverted his fire away from the masses and toward their person. Some readers, no doubt, are saying, “Well that would be stupid. What if that citizen got shot trying to protect others?” To that I reply: Well, Dinky, if they would have been shot and killed at least they would have died a hero. Have you ever heard of the term “hero”?

The Aurora Dark Knight Massacre is exactly why I carry at least one gun everywhere I go—because crap always happens when you least expect it. That’s why, as responsible citizens and gun owners, we must always be ready and must always expect it because when it happens, it happens fast; if you’re not ready, you and others are screwed.

For instance, it’s a beautiful and quiet day on Miami Beach this morning. I’m drinking my coffee at an outdoor cafe, minding my own business while I work on this column and on my website. I don’t see any bath salt zombies on the prowl. There are no Trench Coat Mafia wannabes lurking around. There is no real foreseeable reason to carry a weapon. But I am. The reason? Well, I’m not omniscient. I’m just a dumb clunk living in a jacked-up world where med school students go bat crap crazy and shoot up normally peaceful places for inexplicable reasons. Therefore, I’m locked, cocked and ready to rock should some demented dill weed decide to strafe the local patrons sipping a cup of Joe.

For those who say, “Doug’s insane with all this concealed weapons crap. We should leave such affairs to the police,” allow me to point out that the theater was crawling with cops for the Batman opening to control the crowds. By the time the police got to the particular theater, it was all over. Blood was already running down the aisles and the gunman had already left the building. You, my friend, are your first responder … your first line of defense.

Look, stuff happens when and where you don’t think it’ll happen. My recommendation to you, the good citizen, is to get equipped with a gun—a fire-breathing dragon of a weapon. Get proficient with it. Make it like a cell phone: an additional appendage to your body. And then pray that you’ll never have to use it. However, should you be in line at the grocery store, or at Chili’s eating a burger, or at a park playing football with your homies, and some James Holmes wannabe shows up carting an arsenal and quoting Kafka as he shoots kids … you’ll be ready. Simply find cover if you can, draw your weapon, take a fine bead, and double tap the center mass of the murderous jackass. Should he or she have a bulletproof vest on then pull your sight picture up to the perp’s noggin and shoot him or her in the head; it’ll explode like a watermelon. You’ll feel bad for a nanosecond. But then the cops and families will show up and thank you for putting Jack the Ripper down. The end.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News
KEYWORDS: banglist; coloradoshooting; giles; guncontrol; secondamendment
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1 posted on 07/22/2012 7:05:06 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin
Have you ever heard of the term “hero”?

There are still heroes, but the liberal education system and the brainwashing from movies has changed the definition for most.

True conservative, American values have been demonized.

2 posted on 07/22/2012 7:11:01 AM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: Kaslin

“But then the cops and families will show up and thank you for putting Jack the Ripper down.”

Slight correction...

“But then the cops and families will show up and arrest you, after pissing their little panties at the sight of some blood.”


3 posted on 07/22/2012 7:16:53 AM PDT by Doctor 2Brains (If the government were Paris Hilton, it could not score a free drink in a bar full of lonely sailors)
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To: Kaslin
And then pray that you’ll never have to use it.

I do! But, prepared if needed.

4 posted on 07/22/2012 7:18:05 AM PDT by Bushbacker1 (I miss President Bush! 2012 - The End Of An Error! (Oathkeeper))
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To: Bushbacker1

Yep, just like the seatbelt in my car and the fire extinguisher in my kitchen.


5 posted on 07/22/2012 7:20:43 AM PDT by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: Kaslin
“...allow me to point out that the theater was crawling with cops for the Batman opening to control the crowds.”

First I heard of that. Is it true, or is he exaggerating for effect?

6 posted on 07/22/2012 7:23:07 AM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: Kaslin
The child-like libtard view of gun ownership:


7 posted on 07/22/2012 7:23:52 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Kaslin

“That’s why, as responsible citizens and gun owners, we must always be ready and must always expect it because when it happens, it happens fast; if you’re not ready, you and others are screwed. “

Responsible gun ownership is responsible citizenship. And the time to confront evil is at the point of contact.


8 posted on 07/22/2012 7:24:21 AM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: FatherofFive

I thInk if we had carried guns when I was in college, the campus bully may have been more civilized, or dead.


9 posted on 07/22/2012 7:26:14 AM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: Travis McGee

Chuckie Bloomer.................now those are some cruel parents!


10 posted on 07/22/2012 7:27:35 AM PDT by leaning conservative (snow coming, school cancelled, yayyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Kaslin

He is exactly right, But here’s how it would play in the Media had such a citizen tried to stop Holmes with a gun.
‘Five innocent people were killed when two men started shooting at each other in a crowded theater last night.’


11 posted on 07/22/2012 7:28:41 AM PDT by Vinnie (A)
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To: Travis McGee

Chuckie Bloomer.................now those are some cruel parents!


12 posted on 07/22/2012 7:28:41 AM PDT by leaning conservative (snow coming, school cancelled, yayyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: leaning conservative

Sorry about the double post.


13 posted on 07/22/2012 7:29:48 AM PDT by leaning conservative (snow coming, school cancelled, yayyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: KrisKrinkle

Actually caught my attention also. I thought there were a few “rent-a-cops” for crowd control, but I’ve not read of any police at the scene...prior to the shooting.


14 posted on 07/22/2012 7:31:35 AM PDT by Bushbacker1 (I miss President Bush! 2012 - The End Of An Error! (Oathkeeper))
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To: Kaslin
But carrying in a movie theater with a “no guns” policy violates the rights of the theater owners. It is also foolish: there has not been a movie made that is worth risking your CCW. Better to stay away from such businesses and patronize those that encourage concealed carry (e.g., spend your money on range time).
15 posted on 07/22/2012 7:36:52 AM PDT by Ragnar54 (Obama replaced Osama as America's worst enemy)
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To: Kaslin

It will be interesting to see if there is a surge in CCDW permit applications. Some will probably be discouraged by the cost.

$52.50 for the application plus <$100 for training.

CCIC Fingerprint check $17.50
InstaCheck $13.00
FBI Fingerprint check $22.0


16 posted on 07/22/2012 7:37:15 AM PDT by KyGeezer (9 mm. Fiocchi JHP...52 grains, 1250 ft./sec., 404 ft. pounds)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts; CaptainAmiigaf

ping


17 posted on 07/22/2012 7:37:29 AM PDT by Mrs. B.S. Roberts
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To: Kaslin

In the hopey chngy new socialist America only the upper class are allowed to be heroes, the worker class must be compliant with no hints of placing themselves in harms way to save others.

But I hear there was possibly three heroes, three young men saving their girlfriends at the theater, so the morning MSM says.


18 posted on 07/22/2012 7:38:38 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Going mobile, posts will be brief. No spellcheck for the grammar nazis.)
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To: Kaslin

It’s that time of the year again here in Indianapolis.
“Expo”.
You know the one.

So, I forgot that and took the kids to the mall because it was too hot to go to the park. Crowds everywhere, and the vast majority of the new faces were well-behaved. However, roving bands of saggy-pantsed “urban youths” roving about, with mallcop security quadrupled (at least).

As we walked, my youngest daughter (holding my hand) said, “You have your gun, right?” I swung my hand (and hers) to the hard bump beneath my shirt and she looked at me and smiled.

I don’t care how small the gun has to be to fit, I’m carrying EVERYWHERE.


19 posted on 07/22/2012 7:41:05 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: KrisKrinkle

It’s true, I read that as well...they brought on extra security for the opening. So where were the security guards during all of this?


20 posted on 07/22/2012 8:01:45 AM PDT by Engedi
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To: SJSAMPLE

“I don’t care how small the gun has to be to fit, I’m carrying EVERYWHERE”

I do too. In hot weather it’s a little .380 Ruger LCP-CT which is easy to conceal under a t-shirt in a inside-the-pants holster.

It’s loaded with 6 rounds of Hornady Critical Defense ammo.


21 posted on 07/22/2012 8:04:48 AM PDT by KyGeezer (9 mm. Fiocchi JHP...52 grains, 1250 ft./sec., 404 ft. pounds)
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To: Kaslin
Photobucket
22 posted on 07/22/2012 8:05:46 AM PDT by baddog 219
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To: Kaslin

I remember a few years ago there was a similar shooting incident at a Colorado church. While several people were killed, the lone assassin was taken down by an armed female guard saving many lives.


23 posted on 07/22/2012 8:09:39 AM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: Kaslin
“One fast-thinking and trained person who was armed/licensed with a concealed weapon could have stopped that SOB right in his tracks before the body count skyrocketed.”

I support 2nd amendment rights and I hold CCPs from several states. I usually carry, but would have left my firearm in the car due to the "no gun" policy of the theatre and mall.

That said, what if I had been there and had ignored the property owners legal request? It is a darkened theater full of smoke and screaming people. The killer is wearing black body armor. All I can probably see are muzzle flashes.

Nevertheless, I rise calmly from my seat and quicky drop the bad guy 40 feet away with a double tap between the eyes.

Or not. I'm good, but I'm not that good.

Keep in mind, he has the advantage of being able to "spray and pray." I don't have that luxury. At 40 feet, he with a rifle and body armor, I my 9mm and batman t-shirt, he with a great chance of hitting something when he pulls the trigger, me squinting through the dark and smoke for a target......well, I am overmatched. Don't get me wrong: it is my duty in that situation to engage and I would have, but upon opening fire....doing what I was taught and aiming for center of mass in the dark....I would have hit his body armor. The odds are very high that I would have gone down.

And the headlines the next day: CONCEALED CARRY MAKES NO DIFFERANCE IN KILLING SPREE. The anti gunners win another round in the 2nd amendment battle.

How many of you CC guys train for THIS scenario? I am thinking about adding laser or light to my CC firearm....but none of the holsters I've been able to find fit a gun with a light or laser.

This is just a bad deal all around.

24 posted on 07/22/2012 8:22:49 AM PDT by RepRivFarm ("During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell)
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To: Engedi

The security guards were profiling people to stop anyone from bringing in outside food and drinks.

Seems like a lot of theaters are getting really strict about enforcing that, they rely heavily upon concession sales.


25 posted on 07/22/2012 8:26:05 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Going mobile, posts will be brief. No spellcheck for the grammar nazis.)
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To: Kaslin

It’s an interesting scenario, however, as former Washington state CCW (and a current Czech Republic CCW - yes, you can get one here, provided you’re a permanent resident alien with a clean record from here and your home country, and you have to demonstrate firearms proficiency including marksmanship; oh, and you also have to undergo a psych exam) permit holder, I wouldn’t have returned fire except for under very clearly delineated circumstances, and here’s why.

The theater was inundated with tear gas; this would make it very difficult to properly acquire when you simply can’t see. The shooter threw in 2 tear gas grenades, which are available online easily enough, and then ones I looked at are 6 ounce size, military grade, capable of covering a 23,000 cubic foot area in 1 minute. You can find them at www.KeepShooting.com.

Aside from that issue, this is a semi-darkened environment, with only ambient light coming from the screen. Add to that this is now a tear-gas filled environment, and after the third round or so was fired, a tear-gas filled, semi-darkened environment now in a state of panic

So; you have a theater filled with low-light conditions, tear gas, and panicking people, and the perp is clad in black, with protective gear. He’s also shooting randomly.

The ONLY way in which I would use my CC pistol in this scenario is if the prep is 5 feet away or less, and provided that at that point, my vision had somewhat recovered to the point that I could actually clearly acquire the target.

If someone had returned fire, yes there is a chance he would have hit the shooter, though under the circumstances, probably not so good a chance. There’s just as equal a chance that someone returning fire would have hit an innocent bystander. Remember, when people panic or find themselves in extreme situations, they often act irrationally, and I’d imagine there were a lot of folks irrationally running pell-mell throughout that cinema.

If the hypothetical innocent person mentioned above survived the accidental injury, you can pretty much rest assured that a CCW responder would likely have his/her keester sued off for medical costs, pain and suffering, etc. A nice fat civil lawsuit, in other words.

Me? I would have tried to get myself into a defensive position, pistol at the ready, and only shot the perp (again, provided I could clearly acquire him) at close range, with a clear shot, and with no panicky people anywhere near my line of fire.

There’s a lot of folks out there in the world who think they’re John McClane, and they’re just gonna stand up and say, “Yippee ki yay, M*****F****r” and blow their target away with a clean single shot. Perhaps under the most optimal of conditions, that’s possible; however people must bear in mind that the conditions in which this massacre took place were far from optimal. Walking around with the notion that a CCW makes a person into a justice-dispensing Harry Callahan or Paul Kersey or Judge Dredd is not a responsible attitude to have when you carry a tool which literally has the power of life and death at your immediate disposal.

Life is not a “Die Hard” film.


26 posted on 07/22/2012 8:29:22 AM PDT by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: KrisKrinkle
I watched a presser where the chief said officers were on scene within a 1.5 minutes of the call.

News source provided this:

12:39 a.m.: Aurora Police Department receives calls about the shooting.

12:40 a.m.: Police arrive at the scene a minute and a half later. Twenty-five police officers are on the scene within the first few minutes; 200 are eventually on the scene.

27 posted on 07/22/2012 8:32:28 AM PDT by QT3.14 (ZeroCare Death Panels = Shovel-ready projects)
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To: Kaslin

When seconds count, the cops are just MINUTES away.


28 posted on 07/22/2012 8:35:11 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (NOVEMBER 6th: THE END OF AN ERROR! Let us pray it's not the start of another!*)
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To: AnAmericanAbroad

Agree with your post 100%

Now you will probably get flamed by all the Rambos who know better.


29 posted on 07/22/2012 8:42:36 AM PDT by ConradofMontferrat (According to mudslimze, my handle is a Hate Crime. Hope they don't like it.)
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To: All
CCW holder in the audience?

It appears Holmes had thought about that. Why else would he go in there with all that protective gear?

30 posted on 07/22/2012 8:45:27 AM PDT by QT3.14 (ZeroCare Death Panels = Shovel-ready projects)
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To: Kaslin

The most famous statement about carrying a gun for protection “when seconds count the police will be there in a matter of minutes” was proven when the police chief of Aurora said “we were there within 2 1/2 minutes after the call was received.”

Well! There you have it! The reason to carry.


31 posted on 07/22/2012 8:46:36 AM PDT by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: ConradofMontferrat

Or John McClanes. :)


32 posted on 07/22/2012 8:47:12 AM PDT by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: Dick Bachert
When seconds count, the cops are just MINUTES away.


33 posted on 07/22/2012 8:56:20 AM PDT by QT3.14 (ZeroCare Death Panels = Shovel-ready projects)
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To: Kaslin
Oh good Lord, now is not the time for folks to be stepping up and saying “If I had been there I'd have saved the day!” Sure pal - you are every bit as calm and cool as Dirty Harry. The author needs to give the act a rest - it does nothing to protect 2nd amendment rights. It just stinks of the worst kind of bravado and self-promotion riding the coattails of a horrible massacre.

Leave the tackiness to the Left.

34 posted on 07/22/2012 9:01:57 AM PDT by Puddleglum
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To: AnAmericanAbroad
It boils down to which would you prefer:

Carried by 6

Judged by 12

35 posted on 07/22/2012 9:01:57 AM PDT by QT3.14 (ZeroCare Death Panels = Shovel-ready projects)
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To: KyGeezer

I have the same (even the same ammo) but, frankly, I don’t like it. Not enough fire power and long, long trigger pull. I’m looking at the new Springfield Armory XDs (I have a full size XDm). It’s a delicate balance finding a gun small enough to carry every where but still big enough to feel confident with.


36 posted on 07/22/2012 9:02:17 AM PDT by suthener
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To: Travis McGee
There is no way that a 6 year old drew this. 6 year olds can barely spell, much less know the difference between your and you're. The writing is too uniform and stylized.

Liberals have to lie about everything.

37 posted on 07/22/2012 9:04:07 AM PDT by GrannyAnn
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To: QT3.14

Personally, I think there’s a possibility he WAS expecting a CCW holder in the audience; he’d lived in Colorado for quite awhile, and I’m sure he would’ve been able to look up Colorado state firearms laws over the internet.

Only 5 minutes or so of research would’ve given him his answer.

So, you’ve got a perfectly legitimate point. I recall the 1997 North Hollywood shootout (because I remember watching that one live as it happened) and those two were armed for bear. Body armor, etc.,; they’d anticipated a quick response when they robbed the bank, so it’s also possible Holmes might’ve expected a heavily armed police response to his shoot-’em-up as well

Personally, I REALLY want to know what they find on this guy’s computer; aside from dating/fling sites, what else was he looking at? What was he checking out on YouTube, etc.? What did he download? E-mail contacts, etc.

That kind of information will speak volumes.


38 posted on 07/22/2012 9:06:08 AM PDT by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: RepRivFarm
I am overmatched. Don't get me wrong: it is my duty in that situation to engage and I would have, but upon opening fire....doing what I was taught and aiming for center of mass in the dark....I would have hit his body armor. The odds are very high that I would have gone down.

I don't quite agree. Over-matched, but probably with different priorities - he wouldn't know where you were and wouldn't stop shooting for long to find out. Yes, a decent pair of shots at an appropriate distance would have hit his body armor twice (you weren't going to go for the head in the dark, not unless you saw his armor before it got chaotic, were you?), but I don't think he would have known who shot him. The dark, the chaos, the gas, and the gas mask all work against him for spotting the threat in that situation. He would have been bruised and distracted, but he would not have known who shot him. Wait a ten count, and he'll move on to shooting easy targets instead of searching for the threat. Now go for the head, it's easier to find than you are - his head is just above and to one side of the spouts of flame from his firearms. He's probably moving slowly to be systematic, and to avoid tripping over the living and the dead, and my money is on a head shot timed for when he's not moving to take him down before he knows you're shooting again.

Note: I believe one of the dead was in the next theater and was shot through the walls. It would be prudent to consider that risk and avoid spraying bullets (not that spray and pray is an option with a concealed carry magazine), but I'd consider the risk of a pistol round aimed upward missing, passing through a wall, and hitting someone to be acceptable given the immediate reality of the theater.

39 posted on 07/22/2012 9:07:49 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: FatherofFive; All

Law-Abiding citizens do NOT carry a firearm (or exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms) to become “heroes”...If you do, and that is your intent, stay the hell away from me...

The author of this article definitely nails the proper perspective on folks who take their self defense seriously enough to jump through the hoops to carry in their state(s)...As much as I have a problem with asking permission to exercise that right...

Unless there is physical security (metal detectors, pat downs, wanding) I carry regardless of any signage (or corporate policy) posted by a private business...Because my business is as private as theirs is...If the law says don’t go in there with a gun, I’ll follow that provision in the law...

The most that can happen in most instances is if they somehow find out you are carrying, they can ask you to leave...If you refuse then, then it becomes, from what I have read up on in various state laws, is a trespassing charge (at least in Texas)...

The thing is if you don’t talk about it, don’t make a big deal out of it, don’t play with it, or adjust it on your belt, and keep the thing concealed, you won’t have too many problems...

I’ve been saying for years after one of these shootings, and like the author illuded to...”One law-abiding citizen could very well have made a difference...”

I have also said that I look forward to a day where I walk out my front door, get into my truck and think, “Shoot, I forgot my pistol...”, do I go back and go get it??? Nahhhhh, I don’t need it...

It is unfortunate, but I do not see that happening any time soon...

Just my opinion...


40 posted on 07/22/2012 9:08:13 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: suthener

Size vs. capacity, always a dilemma.
Capacity vs stopping power.

I am actually thinking of the 5.7, 20 rounds.

Otherwise I may build my own stick mag for my .380.

Its a mental project to come up with a counter weapon against a person wearing body armor, with the right choice of ammo the 5.7 with steel cores can defeat some body armor.


41 posted on 07/22/2012 9:09:45 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Going mobile, posts will be brief. No spellcheck for the grammar nazis.)
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To: Ragnar54
But carrying in a movie theater with a “no guns” policy violates the rights of the theater owners. It is also foolish: there has not been a movie made that is worth risking your CCW. Better to stay away from such businesses and patronize those that encourage concealed carry (e.g., spend your money on range time).

I'm with you. I do not carry at all because of the state where I live, but I would not violate the theater owner's private property right to make the rules on his property. I simply do not patronize theaters and malls with that policy. They can accept the consequences of their bad decisions, but I won't.

42 posted on 07/22/2012 9:10:25 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: QT3.14

Holmes may have considered an armed responder, but was he really prepared for a gun fight?

What many dont realize is that 400 foot pounds of energy (the energy of a typical 40S&W HG round) absorbed in a small area on the chest is gonna hurt. It will make you change what you are doing. A round in the unprotected hands or arms (they are holding the rifle in front) will put an end to the hostilities. Better yet a round to the head will eliminate any possible resumption, now or later.


43 posted on 07/22/2012 9:16:02 AM PDT by nonsporting
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To: QT3.14

Fair enough point.

Still, the only way I’ll shoot is if I have a 100% clear shot at the target.

That’s just the way my father trained me on firearms use; “You’d better make damned sure that you’re gonna hit what you’re aiming at and there ain’t nobody in the way.........once you squeeze that trigger, you can’t recall that bullet, and if you kill an innocent person, God help you, ‘cuz you’re gonna have to live with that for the rest of your life.”

He told that when I was about six years old, and those words stuck with me every since. He was an old WW2 US Navy vet and NRA Life-Member, and I proudly grew up with a veritable arsenal in the house. I remember his pride and joy: a .44 AutoMag! Looks bad-ass, but not exactly the best handgun ever made. He still liked it though. :)


44 posted on 07/22/2012 9:18:53 AM PDT by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: RepRivFarm

How many of you CC guys train for THIS scenario?


Hand is raised...

I use a simple paper plate (10”) with balloons ringing the circumference of that plate...I practice the first shot exclusively in those types of drills...

Anyone can punch a lot of holes in a paper target...Making sure you can get off the first shot from a concealed, draw condition is more important than just hitting paper to see how many times you can hit it...

And most important...Knowing that every round that leaves your gun will have a lawyer attached to it, does tend to motivate the serious citizen to practice as often as you can with what you normally carry in public...

That is what is called being responsible, but more important, being prepared to be accountable for your actions regardless if you are justified or not when you clear leather and go to work...

On a side note, I believe it is very damning of the community that there was NOT one law-abiding citizen in there carrying in that theater...We may never know the truth, and if there was, that person will never say anything about it to anyone...Cinemarks corporate policy be damned!!!


45 posted on 07/22/2012 9:23:28 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: Kaslin

It is hard to know what would have prevented this mass murder incident.

But I’d say the lessons learned are:

1) Make sure your CC (concealed carry) weapons have a well adjusted laser.

2) Target practice like crazy, practicing shooting while diving, running, jumping out of helicopters and repelling down walls if possible

3) save lives first then worry about CC restriction laws later

I am not saying however 1 and 2 would have worked. If everyone had done these things, it would have evened the odds a bit I think.


46 posted on 07/22/2012 9:24:17 AM PDT by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (Go Egypt on 0bama)
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To: RepRivFarm
"How many of you CC guys train for THIS scenario?"
Since you asked - Answer: Only SWAT types.

On the other hand, people I know who carry, myself included, are constantly aware of their environment - BECAUSE - they are carrying.

This ahole was completely armored but he walked up the aisle leaving 1/4 to 1/2 the theater audience at his back as he shot people heading for the exits.

An armed American might have been able to follow him and shoot him in the back - is most body armor 360 degrees?

If nothing else - from the rear, knock him down, stuff your pistol between gut and crotch (between armor), press hard and shoot - until he stops moving.

This will slow him down.

When you carry concealed, ignore the "no guns" signs at malls, stores, etc. EXCEPT as provided by state or federal law.

If the establishment is using frisk and metal detectors to prevent anyone from getting in with a weapon then fine - lock it in the vehicle, if not, do not disarm yourself for your family or others.

Trust me. ;-)

47 posted on 07/22/2012 9:31:02 AM PDT by Tunehead54 (Nothing funny here ;-)
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To: Kaslin
James Holmes donned Kevlar

Has that been reported by a reliable source?

Or does he think the $107 Blackhawk Urban Assault Vest is Kevlar?

48 posted on 07/22/2012 9:31:05 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: Kaslin

When there is an event like this, it is important to not let the liberals completely control the debate, by turning it into a gun control argument. While it is certainly important to argue for gun civil rights, liberals need to be counterattacked as well.

The way to do this is to demand that congress limit the power of federal judges to intervene in state executions over nit picking and trivial things, all too often not because of the law, but because the judge himself is personally opposed to the death penalty.

Which is why many vicious murderers sit on death row for 20+ years before justice can be done.

Demand that congress:

1) Set a maximum time limit to appeals. This is done by moving all death penalty appeals to the head of the judicial docket, restricting how long appeals can be delayed, and requiring appeals to be consolidated. After five years, the only appeals left are for complete exoneration from the crime, based on new evidence, as determined by the trial judge.

2) Restrict federal judges to hearing only trial error and unconstitutionality within the trial, *not* method or means of execution by individual states, *or* by involving information extraneous to that particular trial. That is, even though a condemned man is black, a federal judge may not set aside his death penalty because he feels that the state is executing too many black murderers.

If the federal judge does find for trial error or unconstitutionality, the vast majority of the time the case should be returned to the trial court for rehearing, not overturned and sentence set aside.

The bottom line to this is to turn it from a gun control debate, with conservatives playing defense, to a death penalty debate, putting liberals on the defense, trying to justify their opposition to executing horrific murderers.


49 posted on 07/22/2012 9:31:25 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Puddleglum

Some of us do practice and train for senarios like this...The conclusion would be that a lot of things work against you in this specific case...

Even with the protective gear the shooter had on, getting hit by even a 9mm might very well take a lot of the fight out of a person like that, thus the advantage “may” begin to shift to the citizen who is carrying a firearm for lawful self-defensive purposes...

I would point out that I do not carry a firearm under the provisions of state law to be a hero if the situation dictates...I do it for ALL the most selfish of reasons...

Self-preservation...

Real life is never like the movies...That almost goes unsaid...


50 posted on 07/22/2012 9:32:02 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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