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Federal court rules Wisconsin schools' graduations in church were unconstitutional
FoxNews.com ^ | July 23, 2012 | unattributed

Posted on 07/23/2012 7:55:04 PM PDT by Hunton Peck

A federal appeals court ruled Monday that two Wisconsin high schools violated the U.S. Constitution by holding graduations in a church -- among the most recent decisions in a long-running debate about the separation of church and state.

A three-judge panel from the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in September the schools did nothing wrong by hold graduation in Elmbrook Church, in the southeastern part of the state.

However, the full 7th Circuit reversed the panel, ruling Monday the ceremonies were unconstitutional and noting students were exposed to religious messages in the form of a giant cross that hung over the church's sanctuary and religious pamphlets on middle school and high school ministries and hymnals in the pews.

The case against the schools was filed by a group of anonymous students and parents, arguing the ceremonies violated church-state separation.

"This decision upholds the separation of...

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: moralabsolutes; religion; schools; wisconsin
These folks must be extremely insecure in their faith in socialism and secularism to be so terrified that twelve years of indoctrination into it can be undone by the glimpse of a cross.

I wonder if the kids have to return their diplomas.

1 posted on 07/23/2012 7:55:12 PM PDT by Hunton Peck
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To: Hunton Peck
How ironic. For the first hundred years most children were schooled at church, and had more knowledge than what a grad from today's high schools has.

5.56mm

2 posted on 07/23/2012 7:58:23 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: Hunton Peck
I'd find the judge's cars and remove their valve cores ~ but other than that their reasoning suggests they are all senile.

The Constitution sets no standards whatsoever for what is or is not 'religious' ~ and a building is just a building.

The landlord has no obligation whatsoever to remove or hide the artwork.

3 posted on 07/23/2012 8:00:23 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Hunton Peck
Send the decision to the wookie and axe her to axe her significant fag if he'll fissit.

She DID say you can politic in churches, so what's the deal with handing out a diploma?

4 posted on 07/23/2012 8:00:44 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: Hunton Peck

wonder if the teachers are willing to put their salary on the line...kinda paygo.... If the kid turns out ignorant...no pay and no retirement contribution....


5 posted on 07/23/2012 8:01:46 PM PDT by ptsal (E)
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To: Hunton Peck

LOL here in Indiana, a lot of the POLLING PLACES are in church buildings.

Since we’re a red state this time, maybe this is Holder’s ploy to invalidate our votes....


6 posted on 07/23/2012 8:02:41 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Hunton Peck

For decades worship services were held in the House of Representatives. For even longer, our judges were sane. Auld Lang Syne...


7 posted on 07/23/2012 8:05:41 PM PDT by Engraved-on-His-hands (Mitt Romney is a handbasket driver. I refuse to ride.)
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To: Hunton Peck

These “judges” sound like a bunch of addicts who molest little boys. I can’t find it anywhere in MY CONSTITUTION where it says AMERICANS can’t hold graduations in church. NO WHERE! They seemed to have confused their copy of “Rules for Radicals” with the U.S. Constitution.


8 posted on 07/23/2012 8:05:41 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Without the Second Amendment, the other twenty-six will cease to exist.)
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To: Hunton Peck

>>These folks must be extremely insecure in their faith in socialism and secularism to be so terrified that twelve years of indoctrination into it can be undone by the glimpse of a cross.

Most of these “atheists” hate God too much to not really believe. They just wish that He didn’t exist and any exposure reminds them of their folly. God calls to them and they scream back, “No. Stay away. I’m not worthy and I hate you for that.”

I used to be one of them (the atheist, but not the socialist).


9 posted on 07/23/2012 8:06:10 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: M Kehoe

Then the pagan intelligentsia amongst us realized that G_d was and embarrassment to their desired lifestyles and HE had to go.


10 posted on 07/23/2012 8:14:52 PM PDT by doc1019 (Romney will NEVER get my vote.)
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To: knarf

She DID say you can politic in churches,...”

But this is different don’t you know. You must also have forgotten that we is not she.

The anonymous parents and students just tees me off. If you are going to stand up for anything, regardless of whether anyone agrees with you or not, stand up and be recognized. No lawsuits should be permitted to proceed unless the person bringing it is willing to state their name.


11 posted on 07/23/2012 8:18:17 PM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: Hunton Peck

The secular-progressive cultural Marxism peddled by Hollywood, the government schools and liberal universities is as much a system of religious belief as Christianity or Buddhism or Paganism.


12 posted on 07/23/2012 8:19:39 PM PDT by Meet the New Boss
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To: Hunton Peck

Anonymous? That ain’t right. If you’re brave enough to file a lawsuit that stupid, you ought to be brave enough to sign your name to it.


13 posted on 07/23/2012 8:19:51 PM PDT by RichInOC (Jesus is coming back soon...and man, is He ticked off. (I'm trying to keep it clean.))
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To: Hunton Peck

Now I’m just a mountain bred hick but it seems to me that it’s awfully strange that none of the ‘highly educated’ legal beagles ever said to a judge (in these types of fiascos)...

“Your honor, in order to rule that somehow this violates some heretofor undiscovered part of the Constitution, your honor would need to rationally hold that the founding fathers who wrote the constitution itself were unaware of all the schooling going on in churches, all the prayer in schools, and all the prayer that began and ended their official government activities.

“Now I do not believe that your honor is unaware of these historical facts, therefore your honor would be in gross denial of both history and their very actions.”

And when the judge DID rule liberally, then hit every talk show and do every interview where an interviewer could be found relentlessly shredding the stupidity of the decision.


14 posted on 07/23/2012 8:21:33 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: Hunton Peck

Oh Sweet Jesus, these poor kids were exposed to a Cross.

How awful.

Not a one of these kids were ever exposed to a cross before I am sure, even though cemetary’s are full of them


15 posted on 07/23/2012 8:35:54 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Venturer

So... now these poor kids lose their diplomas?


16 posted on 07/23/2012 9:23:46 PM PDT by Rio (Tempis fugit.)
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To: Hunton Peck

This is why all Democrats must never be allowed to Hold any Public office,or work in any Govt Beaurocracy,..or be allowed to run with scissors...or shoot BB Guns.

They are childish God Hating Morons.


17 posted on 07/23/2012 9:53:24 PM PDT by LtKerst
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To: nascarnation

I’m in a blue state.. I have voted in churches the last 5 or 6 times.. Before that it was in the town hall..


18 posted on 07/23/2012 11:00:32 PM PDT by cableguymn (For the first time in my life. I fear my country's government.)
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To: Hunton Peck; Diana in Wisconsin; P from Sheb; Shady; DonkeyBonker; Wisconsinlady; JPG; bushwon; ...

Wisconsin separation of church and state ping

FReep Mail me if you want on, or off, this Wisconsin interest ping list.


19 posted on 07/24/2012 12:06:59 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (ABO)
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To: Rio
“So...now these poor kids lose their diplomas?”

I don't know the answer to that, though I wish I did. Does any one else know? All I can say is RESIST. We are the freedom fighters of this war, and we must do whatever we can to resist and obstruct the pathway of the socialists/marxists/communists/revolutionaries/sharia law loving thugs of the “government in OUR White Hous.”

20 posted on 07/24/2012 1:03:24 AM PDT by itssme
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To: RichInOC

Most of them are cowards. That’s why they wear face masks.


21 posted on 07/24/2012 1:15:28 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Hunton Peck

Separate school and state. Before it is too late.


22 posted on 07/24/2012 1:21:44 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Those who support the lesser of two evils have already succumbed to the greater evil.)
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To: EternalVigilance

Separate school and state. Before it is too late.
####

You have cut to the core of the problem. If we had a capitalist, free market school industry instead of a single payer socialized school industry we wouldn’t have these problems.


23 posted on 07/24/2012 1:35:58 AM PDT by SUSSA
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To: Hunton Peck
I wonder if these modern-day Jacobins have come up with a rule mandating that cefeteria workers in schools may not cut a sandwich twice because that would make the sign of the cross on some kids' lunches, or made rules banning t-squares.

Next thing you know they will order the removal of square linoleum tiles from public buildings because of the thousands of crosses they form at their intersections, and replace them with something else. They're clearly not interested in the purpose of the constitution- to bind government, not to bind the people, censor them or to shield them from the ideas or symbols of others. If they truly believed in a separation of government from religion for the sake of preserving people's rights they would separate government from education so it could not impose any ideas and would leave us alone. It's clear they are interested only in eradicating Christianity and promoting their own religion of atheism instead, and by their manners have no respect or tolerance for anyone's beliefs except their own.

Reminds me of the communists in East Germany perpetually trying to cover the image of a cross on a what I guess was a water tower. Nothing they tried worked, it just kept reappearing. They could never grasp that their problem wasn't so much because it was a "flaw" in the water tower as it was a flaw in their own heads. Birds could fly by that tower and the ever-present symbol unperturbed, because they do not hate and have nothing to fear from any symbol; but the communists could not pass by it without it capturing their eyes. They kept seeing a cross no matter how much they painted over it; it was something they most feared and could not take their eyes off of it; it consumed them even though it could not even command so much reaction from a mere bird.

Unwittingly they themselves were the best advertisement that cross ever had because by relentlessly attacking the cross they kept drawing the attention of others to it- and to their own relative powerlessness. It might have gone wholly unnoticed, seen for the round water tower it was, but their hatred and persecution of it made it shine all the more.

Seems to me if they want to play that game then they may ultimately shed a lot of blood as did earlier revolutionaries, but they will lose; let them just try to eradicate religion when we can see God in everything, and everything a sign reminding us of faith in something higher than mere mortal men, who fear what even a sparrow need not shy from.

24 posted on 07/24/2012 2:25:30 AM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge)
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To: Rio

It is astounding ——the ignorance of people who would bring forth a suit such as this.
Obviously the Church’s were used because they were large enough to seat the graduating students’.

Well: Next year they can hold their ceremony in the un-air conditioned football field and if it rain it’s tough jelly beans.


25 posted on 07/24/2012 5:50:35 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: M Kehoe

Other than home schooling and self schooling, George Washington’s only formal schooling was in church. He turned out better than OK, IMHO.


26 posted on 07/24/2012 8:52:54 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (ABO)
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To: Venturer

You are 100% right. Elmbrook Church is the largest building in town. The high school has nothing comparable. Elmbrook church is used for lots of things, other than church — concerts, etc.

If the high school were to hold graduation in their own building, the students would not be allowed to invite more than one, or two guests to graduation.

So, in order to accomodate guests at graduation, the townspeople will be forced to pony up lots of $$$ to build a huge hall which will stand empty most of the year — or to brave thunderstorms on the football field.


27 posted on 07/24/2012 9:04:42 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (ABO)
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To: Hunton Peck
the ceremonies were unconstitutional and noting students were exposed to religious messages in the form of a giant cross that hung over the church's sanctuary and religious pamphlets on middle school and high school ministries and hymnals in the pews.

If this isn't freedom FROM religion instead of freedom OF religion, then I'll never know what is.

28 posted on 07/24/2012 11:08:54 AM PDT by HeartlandOfAmerica ("We have prepared for the unbeliever, whips and chains and blazing fires!" Koran Sura 76:4)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

That isn’t too hard for sane people to understand is it?These people who filed this suit are turds with nothing better to do than cause trouble.


29 posted on 07/24/2012 1:28:49 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Hunton Peck

I guess the Penn State sanctions rule applies and all the diplomas back to 1999 are null and void. That won’t inconvenience anyone, right? Its come to the point crazy is more sensible than what judges say.


30 posted on 07/24/2012 1:58:19 PM PDT by RicocheT (Eat the rich only if you're certain it's your last meal)
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