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'What?' Confused 911 caller outs NYPD spying in NJ
WRAL ^ | July 25, 2012

Posted on 07/25/2012 6:17:20 AM PDT by NCjim

NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J. — It's an audiotape the New York Police Department hoped you would never hear.

A building superintendent at an apartment complex just off the Rutgers University campus called the New Brunswick Police 911 line in June 2009. He said his staff had been conducting a routine inspection and came across something suspicious.

"What's suspicious?" the dispatcher asked.

"Suspicious in the sense that the apartment has about — has no furniture except two beds, has no clothing, has New York City Police Department radios."

"Really?" the dispatcher asked, her voice rising with surprise.

The caller, Salil Sheth, had stumbled upon one of the NYPD's biggest secrets: a safe house, a place where undercover officers working well outside the department's jurisdiction could lie low and coordinate surveillance. Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, the NYPD, with training and guidance from the CIA, has monitored the activities of Muslims in New York and far beyond. Detectives infiltrated mosques, eavesdropped in cafes and kept tabs on Muslim student groups, including at Rutgers.

(Excerpt) Read more at wral.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cia; counterterrorism; emergency911; fbi; islam; jihad; leo; muslim; nypd; rutgers; wot
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Oops - forgot link the first time :-( Sorry
1 posted on 07/25/2012 6:17:23 AM PDT by NCjim
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To: NCjim

OMG! The horror! The NYPD were doing their job! Because they didn’t trust the Obama administration to do its job.


2 posted on 07/25/2012 6:37:14 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

They should have had a front page notice printed in the New York Times notifying the bad guys they were there.


3 posted on 07/25/2012 6:40:26 AM PDT by Russ (Repeal the 17th amendment)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

They should have had a front page notice printed in the New York Times notifying the bad guys they were there.


4 posted on 07/25/2012 6:40:37 AM PDT by Russ (Repeal the 17th amendment)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Disagree.

The NYPD should NOT be doing “their job” in New Jersey, unless they had permission, which they DID NOT. What they found as evidence wouldn’t even be admissible if discovered illegally, would it? There is that pesky thing called “Jurisdiction.”


5 posted on 07/25/2012 6:46:25 AM PDT by madison10
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To: NCjim

Investigating Muslims and mosques? I’ve got no problem with that. Instead of the CIA, though, they should have gotten some training from the Israelis.


6 posted on 07/25/2012 6:50:27 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: madison10

Yea, this is definitely NOT the way to conduct business. The NYPD needs to understand that the individual states are sovereign.

Snooping around gun shops in VA and GA and trying to make straw purchases is NOT the mission of the NYPD, even though Bloomingidiot thinks so.

And Bloomingidiot had to sign off on this program, so it shows his clear contempt for the rights of NJ state.


7 posted on 07/25/2012 6:52:35 AM PDT by ConradofMontferrat (According to mudslimze, my handle is a Hate Crime. Hope they don't like it.)
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To: madison10

Excuse me, they were not doing anything any other citizen could not have done. They didn’t do anything a reporter for the Newark Star Ledger or the Rutgers student newspaper could not have done, had they been interested. There is no indication of any illegal activity or exercising police powers in New Jersey, they were just “looking around”. You or I can masquerade as Muslims and join the local mosque to keep tabs on trouble makers, just like the FBI infiltrated the Bund prior to World War II.


8 posted on 07/25/2012 6:56:08 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: madison10
"The NYPD should NOT be doing “their job” in New Jersey, unless they had permission, which they DID NOT. What they found as evidence wouldn’t even be admissible if discovered illegally, would it? There is that pesky thing called “Jurisdiction.”"

Disagree. This isn't like they were doing traffic stops in NJ. This is gathering information to protect New York City. That investigation can go wherever it needs to. If they find evidence of a crime committed in another jurisdiction, they'd need to pull in the appropriate agency with jurisdiction.

9 posted on 07/25/2012 6:56:54 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: NCjim
New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has defended the police department's right to go anywhere in the country in search of terrorists without telling local police.

Big no, no! When one law enforcement agency operates within the jurisdiction of another, it always seeks permission and cooperation from the local sheriff's department.

Bloomberg thinks that he's above the law. He tried this in Virginia couple of years ago with his agents making strawman gun purchases, and the Commonwealth Attorney General told him in uncertain terms that if it happened again, then the agents would be charged and prosecuted.

New York City is NOT foreign country with its own intelligence rules and operations, even though Bloomberg likes to think so.

10 posted on 07/25/2012 7:08:10 AM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: madison10
The NYPD should NOT be doing “their job” in New Jersey, unless they had permission, which they DID NOT.

From the article:

In February, NYPD's deputy commissioner for legal matters, Andrew Schaffer, told reporters that detectives can operate outside New York because they aren't conducting official police duties. "They're not acting as police officers in other jurisdictions," Schaffer said.

and

And New Jersey Attorney General Jeffrey Chiesa has said he's seen no evidence that the NYPD's efforts violated his state's laws.

11 posted on 07/25/2012 7:08:36 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: NCjim
Talk about confusing......it's not okay for the NYPD to spy on Muzzies after they declared Jihad on our airline industry and killed 3000+ innocent Americans but it's perfectly okay for the U.S. government to launch drones over our soil and spy on tea partiers and Christians? I've been in a perpetual state of confusion since the Halfrican won the election.
12 posted on 07/25/2012 7:18:45 AM PDT by liberalh8ter (If Barack has a memory like a steel trap, why can't he remember what the Constitution says?)
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To: MEGoody

If those officers-not-doing-policework were getting paid off the NYPD payroll while ‘not doing policework’ - they were doing police work, especially since what they found would be reported to the NYPD and used for their investigations. No different than any other stakeout. Legally parsing all they want changes nothing.

Personally if my SWAT team had found any of them there, I’d have busted their skulls open with a rifle butt, taken all their stuff, killed their dog, burnt everything else, and thrown them in the klink for some Bubba love, then busted their skulls open again for good measure.


13 posted on 07/25/2012 7:22:46 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (Election 2012 - America stands or falls. No more excuses. Get involved.)
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To: liberalh8ter

“Talk about confusing......it’s not okay for the NYPD to spy on Muzzies after they declared Jihad on our airline industry and killed 3000+ innocent Americans but it’s perfectly okay for the U.S. government to launch drones over our soil and spy on tea partiers and Christians?”

And cows. They are also spying on cows.


14 posted on 07/25/2012 7:23:18 AM PDT by Cowgirl of Justice
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

I don’t think they are on vacation in NJ acting as any other citizen. There is a difference.


15 posted on 07/25/2012 8:02:37 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: paul51

For legal purposes, how are they different? As long as they don’t flash a badge or stop anyone they are behaving perfectly legally.


16 posted on 07/25/2012 8:13:21 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: NCjim

Given the numbers of times I’ve eaten at The Parkside Restaurant in Corona, Queens my photo must have been taken fifty times by the FBI and NYPD’s organized crime task force. This does not include visits to Frankie and Johnnie’s Pine Tavern and Dominick’s in The Bronx. The ACLU and NYTimes haven’t made much of the continuous surveillance of Italian American establishments in the last 60 years. Never bothered me. I usually try to find the vans and look at them and smile. I’ll be eating Snapper Livornese while they’ll be drinking bad coffee. As for the wiseguys. They’re bums and thugs and if they’re stupid enough to do something in front of the cameras they know are watching they deserve a trip to Atlanta.


17 posted on 07/25/2012 8:17:26 AM PDT by xkaydet65
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To: Timber Rattler

“New York City is NOT foreign country with its own intelligence rules and operations, even though Bloomberg likes to think so.’


To most of us in Upstate NY forced to live under the socialist policies driven almost exclusively by all the foreigners in NYC I can tell you they behave like a foreign country.

If however they were ONLY gathering information there should be no problem. If on the other hand they were making arrests or obtaining information which could only be obtained via a warrant then yes there is a problem.

Feigned outrage over information gathering might make for increased paper sales but then again we know the media is not a friend or defender of the country. They would hide a planned attack by mudslimes if it would increase readership.


18 posted on 07/25/2012 8:17:38 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: Free Vulcan
If those officers-not-doing-policework were getting paid off the NYPD payroll while ‘not doing policework’ - they were doing police work, especially since what they found would be reported to the NYPD and used for their investigations. No different than any other stakeout. Legally parsing all they want changes nothing.

The article calls it a "safe house" not a stake out. Also per the article, the Atty General of the state of NJ states he does not believe any NJ laws were broken.

19 posted on 07/25/2012 8:18:59 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
They are acting in an official capacity outside their jurisdiction without the knowledge of NJ authorities.
20 posted on 07/25/2012 8:23:19 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
As long as they don’t flash a badge or stop anyone they are behaving perfectly legally.

Are they doing this using their own leave time, or are they on the NYPD clock? And who owns the computer and surveillance gear found at the safe house?

Sorry, but this excuse doesn't fly.

21 posted on 07/25/2012 8:28:34 AM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: MEGoody
"In February, NYPD's deputy commissioner for legal matters, Andrew Schaffer, told reporters that detectives can operate outside New York because they aren't conducting official police duties. "They're not acting as police officers in other jurisdictions," Schaffer said."

BS. If they were getting paid by the PD for their time and efforts there, they were conducting official police duties.

22 posted on 07/25/2012 8:34:57 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Joe 6-pack
BS. If they were getting paid by the PD for their time and efforts there, they were conducting official police duties.

Then you disagree with the Atty General of NJ. :::shrug:::

23 posted on 07/25/2012 8:40:21 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Timber Rattler
"...it always seeks permission and cooperation from the local sheriff's department."

And guaranteed, their cover would have been blown not long after. Had there been another attack in NY City, the press and the Dems would have crucified the NYPD for not having done enough to prevent the attack. They're damned if they do...and damned if they don't. Frankly, I'd rather have them doing it and not advising the local police. Loose lips sink ships. And I'd like to know how that building inspector had the right to enter the apartment in the first place, especially if no one was home to let him in.

24 posted on 07/25/2012 8:40:38 AM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway...John Wayne)
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To: Joe 6-pack
BS. If they were getting paid by the PD for their time and efforts there, they were conducting official police duties.

Then I take it you disagree with the Atty General of NJ that they did not break any NJ laws.

25 posted on 07/25/2012 8:43:15 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Timber Rattler; paul51

I still don’t see what they did that was not perfectly legal. Please cite case law or any laws of New Jersey, New York or the United States that were violated.


26 posted on 07/25/2012 8:56:41 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

yeah, I’ll get right on that


27 posted on 07/25/2012 9:10:26 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: paul51
I take that as a concession that nothing illegal occurred.
28 posted on 07/25/2012 9:13:31 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: xkaydet65

same here but a different nationality venue as in irish pubs.
and back at that time, one guy confirmed it all by happily insisting he “knew” me when I had never laid eyes on him,and yapping on and on in irish to me as i played it back speaking only in spanish to him. The location was nowhere near a bar either.
The conversation continued as i continued to simply reply yo no se,por favor toca y me dejó pasar,etc( i am not the generic appearing irish either) and it turned out he was a fed and recognised me from reams of surveillance tapes.
small world,eh ?
I haven’t been in that place for years and it no longer exists either—is at the present a mexican sports bar.
anyone care ?

by today’s standards wouldn’t this be classified as harassment ?
was anyone irate to the point of lawsuits ? we all knew they were watching the bars and clubs . LOL !

and yeah,we acknowledge them all as well.


29 posted on 07/25/2012 9:48:49 AM PDT by catroina54
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To: Free Vulcan
Personally if my SWAT team had found any of them there, I’d have busted their skulls open with a rifle butt, taken all their stuff, killed their dog, burnt everything else, and thrown them in the klink for some Bubba love,

Most men are against homosexual rape, but it seems to excite a few men, I hope you aren't in law enforcement, your enthusiasm for people being raped by homosexuals is creepy enough if you aren't, if you are law enforcement then you need to be removed for psychological reasons.

30 posted on 07/25/2012 9:53:02 AM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors,,, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
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To: Wurlitzer
"If however they were ONLY gathering information there should be no problem."

If they were not conducting "official investigations," on behalf of the NYPD, they were operating in the capacity of private investigators. In NJ, a Private Detective license is required to receive payment for investigations into any of the following:

(1) crime or wrong done or threatened or assumed to have been done or threatened against the Government of the United States of America, or any State, Territory or Possession of the United States of America;

(2) the identity, habits, conduct, movements, whereabouts, affiliations, associations, transactions, reputation or character of any person, association, organization, society or groups of persons, firms or corporations;

(3) the credibility of witnesses or other persons;

(4) the whereabouts of missing persons;

(5) the location or recovery of lost or stolen property;

(6) the causes and origin of, or responsibility for, fires, libels, accidents, damage, injuries or losses to persons, firms, associations or corporations, or to real or personal property;

(7) the affiliation, connection or relation of any person, firm or corporation with any organization, society, association, or with any official member or representative thereof;

(8) with reference to the conduct, honesty, efficiency, loyalty or activities of employees, agents, contractors and subcontractors;

(9) the securing of evidence to be used before any investigating committee, board of award, board of arbitration, or in the trial of any civil or criminal cause; provided, however, that the term shall not include a person, firm, association or corporation engaged exclusively in the business of making investigations and reports as to the financial standing, credit and financial responsibility of persons, firms, associations or corporations nor to electrically controlled burglar or fire alarm system with a central unit, nor to any person, firm, association or corporation engaged in the business of making reports for insurance or credit purposes. Also it shall mean the furnishing for hire or reward of watchmen or guards or private patrolmen or other persons to protect persons or property, either real or personal, or for any other purpose whatsoever. The term shall not include and nothing in this act shall apply to any lawful activity of any board, body, commission or agency of the United States of America or of any State, Territory or Possession of the United States of America, or any county, municipality, school district, or any officer or employee solely, exclusively and regularly employed by any of the foregoing; nor to any attorney or counsellor-at-law in connection with the regular practice of his profession, nor to any person employed by any such attorney or counsellor-at-law when engaged upon his employer's business; nor to any employee, investigator or investigators solely, exclusively and regularly employed by any person, firm, association or corporation which is not engaged in any of the businesses hereinbefore described in items numbered one to nine, both inclusive, of this subSection in so far as their acts may relate solely to the business of the respective employers; nor to any person, firm, association or corporation licensed to do a business of insurance of any nature under the insurance laws of this State, nor to any employee or licensed agent thereof; nor to any person, firm, association or corporation conducting any investigation solely for its own account.

The kicker is that Law Enforcement personnel who are employed by a law enforcement agency can not concurrently hold a PI license or conduct private investigations in NJ.

31 posted on 07/25/2012 9:57:49 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: MEGoody
"Then I take it you disagree with the Atty General of NJ that they did not break any NJ laws."

Yes I do. See my #31.

32 posted on 07/25/2012 9:59:40 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

See 31


33 posted on 07/25/2012 10:02:08 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: mass55th
And guaranteed, their cover would have been blown not long after.

Irrelevant.

NYPD is a local jurisdiction,and has NO authority to operate outside NYC's boundaries, even in a surveillance capacity, without coordinating receiving permission from the other law enforcement jurisdictions.

That's what got Bloomberg and his half-baked spies in trouble in Virginia and Georgia.

34 posted on 07/25/2012 10:17:35 AM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Ratman83

Sorry, I agree with the NJ AG, that law does not apply to NYPD. In addition, if a PI were employed in New York and being paid in New York, it would not apply to him if he conducted inquiries in NJ, as I read it.


35 posted on 07/25/2012 10:37:07 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
"Sorry, I agree with the NJ AG, that law does not apply to NYPD. In addition, if a PI were employed in New York and being paid in New York, it would not apply to him if he conducted inquiries in NJ, as I read it."

I'm a licensed PI in both NY and NJ, and have worked both states. I needed to be licensed by both as there is no reciprocity between the states. Even if, for example, a claim was filed in NY by a NY resident and surveillance was being done at the NY address, and the claimant traveled to NJ, the investigator would need to be licensed in both states to continue the surveillance into NJ. If that's not the case, there are a whole lot of PI firms in that area who have been getting ripped off by paying the licensing fees for both states for their employees.

The NJ law is quite explicit in defining what constitutes "private detective business." It is further explicit that engaging in such investigations without a license is a misdemeanor.

If, as NYPD contends, they were not conducting official police business, what they were doing falls under the NJ Private Detective Act of 1939 as a private detective business (assuming they were being paid while they were working there). As I pointed out, the catch is, they can not be licensed because of their concurrent employment with a law enforcement agency.

I doubt they will be charged, and the law will be ignored, but that does not mean what they did was "legal."

36 posted on 07/25/2012 11:33:40 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Joe 6-pack

You make sense, I’ll reserve judgment. When you are a PI, other than being paid to be a PI, what actions do you take that any other citizen could not? As far as I know, PIs have no special police power, no access to records not accessible to the general public, etc. Other than being paid to investigate, what distinguishes a PI from any other citizen?


37 posted on 07/25/2012 11:53:53 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: Free Vulcan

Jesus. As I was reading your post I couldn’t help but think of Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs. You seem to get excited describing what you would do to the cops. Do you perform rape often? Or is it just a harmless fantasy?


38 posted on 07/25/2012 12:05:51 PM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
The differences and restrictions vary from state to state. In most states, the primary difference between a licensed PI and a lay person is, believe it or not, being able to charge fees for performing investigative services. Additionally, licensed PIs may be entitled to access certain databases under the DPPA (Driver's Privacy Protection Act), and similar state privacy laws. Also, most states that have stalking laws have exceptions for private investigators performing legitimate investigations. California is a good example as their "paparazzi act" actually restricts some public photography for the lay person, but which exempts PIs conducting surveillance based on articulable suspicion.

You are right; however, for the most part another person can do what most PI's do, they just can't charge for it. A lot of states treat their licensing like any other profession, so it's more for the protection of the consumer who may engage a PI service, so that consumer knows that the licensee has met a minimum of qualifications regulated by the state.

39 posted on 07/25/2012 12:06:11 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: thefactor; ansel12

You guys have the constitutional right to be bootlickers all you want. Anyone on the street tried to pull what the NYPD did and that is exactly what they would have got and then some. Apparently you two think there’s one standard for them and one for us.

Put some salt on that boot boys and lick ‘er good.


40 posted on 07/25/2012 8:36:35 PM PDT by Free Vulcan (Election 2012 - America stands or falls. No more excuses. Get involved.)
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To: Free Vulcan

From promoting homosexual rape to licking, you are proving my theory about you ‘let’s hope they have homosexual sex forced on them in prison’, types.


41 posted on 07/25/2012 8:46:44 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors,,, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
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To: ansel12

Not really interested in the opinion of some pinko commie useless idiot. Why don’t you go to DU and live out your fantasies there?


42 posted on 07/25/2012 9:00:24 PM PDT by Free Vulcan (Election 2012 - America stands or falls. No more excuses. Get involved.)
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To: Free Vulcan

Sorry, but it was your pink, prison fantasies, that we were pointing out to you as sick and perverted.


43 posted on 07/25/2012 9:57:21 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors,,, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
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To: Free Vulcan

And you have the Constitutional right to your homoerotic fantasies. I, for one, did not comment on the content of the story.


44 posted on 07/26/2012 3:31:02 AM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: ansel12; thefactor

You two are obviously a couple of pseudo-intellectual commiebags walking around spouting your sniveling elitist psychobabble and, like your fellow Marxist brethren, trying to make everyone you don’t like seem crazy or deviant.

Like Freud, you keep trying to twist everything toward whatever little fetish fixation you’re hung up on. Don’t try to project your maggot commie sickness on to me. Go provocateur somewhere else.


45 posted on 07/26/2012 5:51:37 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (Election 2012 - America stands or falls. No more excuses. Get involved.)
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To: Free Vulcan
I’d have busted their skulls open with a rifle butt, taken all their stuff, killed their dog, burnt everything else, and thrown them in the klink for some Bubba love

You desire to have men raped by homosexuals in what you call "bubba love", sorry but your desires are sick and perverted and clearly involve homosexuality.

I hope you aren't really in law enforcement.

46 posted on 07/26/2012 8:39:52 AM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors,,, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
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To: ansel12

Again, I’m not interested in your commie Freudian psychobabble projections. You have an obvious fixation with Marxist style psychoanalysis and a deep, unhinged need to paint everyone who doesn’t fit in your neurotic jackboot world as crazy. Go take your deviant sickness somewhere else.


47 posted on 07/26/2012 9:00:07 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (Election 2012 - America stands or falls. No more excuses. Get involved.)
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To: Free Vulcan

Wouldn’t it make more sense for you to retract your stated desire to have men raped by homosexuals?

Most humans would label you as having a deviant sickness, not the people who are against rape.


48 posted on 07/26/2012 7:03:08 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors,,, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
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To: ansel12

I find your Freudian fixations more than a little unsettling. You seem to hone in on certain comments and proceed to manufacture delusional scenarios based on projection and Marxist pseudo-psychoanalysis techniques. Definitely a sign of a deeply disturbed mind.


49 posted on 07/26/2012 8:56:18 PM PDT by Free Vulcan (Election 2012 - America stands or falls. No more excuses. Get involved.)
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To: Free Vulcan
"Personally if my SWAT team had found any of them there, I’d have"...."thrown them in the klink for some Bubba love"

Quit all this Freudian nonsense, your thoughts, your desired result were spelled out in plain English, and they are clearly sick and perverted.

50 posted on 07/26/2012 9:06:04 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors,,, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
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