'What?' Confused 911 caller outs NYPD spying in NJ

WRAL ^ | July 25, 2012

[NCjim]

NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J. — It's an audiotape the New York Police Department hoped you would never hear.

A building superintendent at an apartment complex just off the Rutgers University campus called the New Brunswick Police 911 line in June 2009. He said his staff had been conducting a routine inspection and came across something suspicious.

"What's suspicious?" the dispatcher asked.

"Suspicious in the sense that the apartment has about — has no furniture except two beds, has no clothing, has New York City Police Department radios."

"Really?" the dispatcher asked, her voice rising with surprise.

The caller, Salil Sheth, had stumbled upon one of the NYPD's biggest secrets: a safe house, a place where undercover officers working well outside the department's jurisdiction could lie low and coordinate surveillance. Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, the NYPD, with training and guidance from the CIA, has monitored the activities of Muslims in New York and far beyond. Detectives infiltrated mosques, eavesdropped in cafes and kept tabs on Muslim student groups, including at Rutgers.

[Timber Rattler]

As long as they don’t flash a badge or stop anyone they are behaving perfectly legally.

Are they doing this using their own leave time, or are they on the NYPD clock? And who owns the computer and surveillance gear found at the safe house?

Sorry, but this excuse doesn't fly.

[Joe 6-pack]

"In February, NYPD's deputy commissioner for legal matters, Andrew Schaffer, told reporters that detectives can operate outside New York because they aren't conducting official police duties. "They're not acting as police officers in other jurisdictions," Schaffer said."

BS. If they were getting paid by the PD for their time and efforts there, they were conducting official police duties.

[MEGoody]

BS. If they were getting paid by the PD for their time and efforts there, they were conducting official police duties.

Then you disagree with the Atty General of NJ. :::shrug:::

[mass55th]

"...it always seeks permission and cooperation from the local sheriff's department."

And guaranteed, their cover would have been blown not long after. Had there been another attack in NY City, the press and the Dems would have crucified the NYPD for not having done enough to prevent the attack. They're damned if they do...and damned if they don't. Frankly, I'd rather have them doing it and not advising the local police. Loose lips sink ships. And I'd like to know how that building inspector had the right to enter the apartment in the first place, especially if no one was home to let him in.

[MEGoody]

BS. If they were getting paid by the PD for their time and efforts there, they were conducting official police duties.

Then I take it you disagree with the Atty General of NJ that they did not break any NJ laws.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

I still don’t see what they did that was not perfectly legal. Please cite case law or any laws of New Jersey, New York or the United States that were violated.

[paul51]

yeah, I’ll get right on that

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

I take that as a concession that nothing illegal occurred.

[catroina54]

same here but a different nationality venue as in irish pubs.
and back at that time, one guy confirmed it all by happily insisting he “knew” me when I had never laid eyes on him,and yapping on and on in irish to me as i played it back speaking only in spanish to him. The location was nowhere near a bar either.
The conversation continued as i continued to simply reply yo no se,por favor toca y me dejó pasar,etc( i am not the generic appearing irish either) and it turned out he was a fed and recognised me from reams of surveillance tapes.
small world,eh ?
I haven’t been in that place for years and it no longer exists either—is at the present a mexican sports bar.
anyone care ?

by today’s standards wouldn’t this be classified as harassment ?
was anyone irate to the point of lawsuits ? we all knew they were watching the bars and clubs . LOL !

and yeah,we acknowledge them all as well.

[ansel12]

Personally if my SWAT team had found any of them there, I’d have busted their skulls open with a rifle butt, taken all their stuff, killed their dog, burnt everything else, and thrown them in the klink for some Bubba love,

Most men are against homosexual rape, but it seems to excite a few men, I hope you aren't in law enforcement, your enthusiasm for people being raped by homosexuals is creepy enough if you aren't, if you are law enforcement then you need to be removed for psychological reasons.

[Joe 6-pack]

"If however they were ONLY gathering information there should be no problem."

If they were not conducting "official investigations," on behalf of the NYPD, they were operating in the capacity of private investigators. In NJ, a Private Detective license is required to receive payment for investigations into any of the following:

(1) crime or wrong done or threatened or assumed to have been done or threatened against the Government of the United States of America, or any State, Territory or Possession of the United States of America;

(2) the identity, habits, conduct, movements, whereabouts, affiliations, associations, transactions, reputation or character of any person, association, organization, society or groups of persons, firms or corporations;

(3) the credibility of witnesses or other persons;

(4) the whereabouts of missing persons;

(5) the location or recovery of lost or stolen property;

(6) the causes and origin of, or responsibility for, fires, libels, accidents, damage, injuries or losses to persons, firms, associations or corporations, or to real or personal property;

(7) the affiliation, connection or relation of any person, firm or corporation with any organization, society, association, or with any official member or representative thereof;

(8) with reference to the conduct, honesty, efficiency, loyalty or activities of employees, agents, contractors and subcontractors;

(9) the securing of evidence to be used before any investigating committee, board of award, board of arbitration, or in the trial of any civil or criminal cause; provided, however, that the term shall not include a person, firm, association or corporation engaged exclusively in the business of making investigations and reports as to the financial standing, credit and financial responsibility of persons, firms, associations or corporations nor to electrically controlled burglar or fire alarm system with a central unit, nor to any person, firm, association or corporation engaged in the business of making reports for insurance or credit purposes. Also it shall mean the furnishing for hire or reward of watchmen or guards or private patrolmen or other persons to protect persons or property, either real or personal, or for any other purpose whatsoever. The term shall not include and nothing in this act shall apply to any lawful activity of any board, body, commission or agency of the United States of America or of any State, Territory or Possession of the United States of America, or any county, municipality, school district, or any officer or employee solely, exclusively and regularly employed by any of the foregoing; nor to any attorney or counsellor-at-law in connection with the regular practice of his profession, nor to any person employed by any such attorney or counsellor-at-law when engaged upon his employer's business; nor to any employee, investigator or investigators solely, exclusively and regularly employed by any person, firm, association or corporation which is not engaged in any of the businesses hereinbefore described in items numbered one to nine, both inclusive, of this subSection in so far as their acts may relate solely to the business of the respective employers; nor to any person, firm, association or corporation licensed to do a business of insurance of any nature under the insurance laws of this State, nor to any employee or licensed agent thereof; nor to any person, firm, association or corporation conducting any investigation solely for its own account.

The kicker is that Law Enforcement personnel who are employed by a law enforcement agency can not concurrently hold a PI license or conduct private investigations in NJ.

[Joe 6-pack]

"Then I take it you disagree with the Atty General of NJ that they did not break any NJ laws."

Yes I do. See my #31.

[Ratman83]

See 31

[Timber Rattler]

And guaranteed, their cover would have been blown not long after.

Irrelevant.

NYPD is a local jurisdiction,and has NO authority to operate outside NYC's boundaries, even in a surveillance capacity, without coordinating receiving permission from the other law enforcement jurisdictions.

That's what got Bloomberg and his half-baked spies in trouble in Virginia and Georgia.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

Sorry, I agree with the NJ AG, that law does not apply to NYPD. In addition, if a PI were employed in New York and being paid in New York, it would not apply to him if he conducted inquiries in NJ, as I read it.

[Joe 6-pack]

"Sorry, I agree with the NJ AG, that law does not apply to NYPD. In addition, if a PI were employed in New York and being paid in New York, it would not apply to him if he conducted inquiries in NJ, as I read it."

I'm a licensed PI in both NY and NJ, and have worked both states. I needed to be licensed by both as there is no reciprocity between the states. Even if, for example, a claim was filed in NY by a NY resident and surveillance was being done at the NY address, and the claimant traveled to NJ, the investigator would need to be licensed in both states to continue the surveillance into NJ. If that's not the case, there are a whole lot of PI firms in that area who have been getting ripped off by paying the licensing fees for both states for their employees.

The NJ law is quite explicit in defining what constitutes "private detective business." It is further explicit that engaging in such investigations without a license is a misdemeanor.

If, as NYPD contends, they were not conducting official police business, what they were doing falls under the NJ Private Detective Act of 1939 as a private detective business (assuming they were being paid while they were working there). As I pointed out, the catch is, they can not be licensed because of their concurrent employment with a law enforcement agency.

I doubt they will be charged, and the law will be ignored, but that does not mean what they did was "legal."

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

You make sense, I’ll reserve judgment. When you are a PI, other than being paid to be a PI, what actions do you take that any other citizen could not? As far as I know, PIs have no special police power, no access to records not accessible to the general public, etc. Other than being paid to investigate, what distinguishes a PI from any other citizen?

[thefactor]

Jesus. As I was reading your post I couldn’t help but think of Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs. You seem to get excited describing what you would do to the cops. Do you perform rape often? Or is it just a harmless fantasy?

[Joe 6-pack]

The differences and restrictions vary from state to state. In most states, the primary difference between a licensed PI and a lay person is, believe it or not, being able to charge fees for performing investigative services. Additionally, licensed PIs may be entitled to access certain databases under the DPPA (Driver's Privacy Protection Act), and similar state privacy laws. Also, most states that have stalking laws have exceptions for private investigators performing legitimate investigations. California is a good example as their "paparazzi act" actually restricts some public photography for the lay person, but which exempts PIs conducting surveillance based on articulable suspicion.

You are right; however, for the most part another person can do what most PI's do, they just can't charge for it. A lot of states treat their licensing like any other profession, so it's more for the protection of the consumer who may engage a PI service, so that consumer knows that the licensee has met a minimum of qualifications regulated by the state.

[Free Vulcan]

You guys have the constitutional right to be bootlickers all you want. Anyone on the street tried to pull what the NYPD did and that is exactly what they would have got and then some. Apparently you two think there’s one standard for them and one for us.

Put some salt on that boot boys and lick ‘er good.