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Colorado shooter: a high achiever's abrupt descent
Reuters ^ | July 23, 2012 | Stephanie Simon and Dan Whitcomb

Posted on 07/26/2012 5:06:34 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o

For most of his 24 years, James Holmes seemed to be doing everything right.

He worked for a summer as a counselor at a camp for needy kids, guiding them through activities designed to teach empathy, compassion and good citizenship. Another summer, he snagged a prestigious internship at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies.

He attended church with his family in their quiet, upper-middle-class San Diego neighborhood, listening to his sister play bass in the worship band. He breezed through high school and college, taking a strong interest in science and graduating with honors from the University of California, Riverside.

Friends and acquaintances of Holmes say they had no inkling that anything was awry with him --

"It's absurd. It's so out of character for this young man," said Jerry Borgie, senior pastor at Penasquitos Lutheran Church in San Diego, where the Holmes family worshipped. "James had goals. He was going to succeed."

But a few hints have emerged in recent days that Holmes may have struggled far more than those around him realized.

His summer internship at the Salk Institute in La Jolla, California, in 2006 might have been impressive on paper, but...

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: auorashooting; auraro; jamesholmes; jamesholmesbio; massacre; massmurder
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There's more.
1 posted on 07/26/2012 5:06:48 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: SaraJohnson; johngrace; stfassisi; HiTech RedNeck; HerrBlucher; hosepipe; Chickensoup; maryz; ...

None of the usual categories seem to apply.


2 posted on 07/26/2012 5:15:54 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Hmmm .. He comes from a pretty interesting gene pool

Either an academic or a 'push through'

An unusually quiet and withdrawn guy ... autistic ?

Chooses neuroscience for an advanced study.

in 2006, he's discovered to be ... less than what he purported to be.

Got gov't and school grants to live

Drops out and after becoming a mass murderer, it is discovered he's chock a block full of weird, insurgent/terrorist type influence


Where was Bill Ayers in 2006?

3 posted on 07/26/2012 5:21:12 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

When I click the link I get nothing.

But that could be just me.

What I’ve read so far suggests a quiet ticking bomb. He was totally wrapped in defining who and what he was based on these “achievements”.

Something in his brain might have gone wrong at some point, some kind of mental disorder, and it would appear he had NOTHING within himself or outside himself to fall back on.

I read, or heard, that as soon as he took the oral exam he began ordering ammo and other stuff and dropped out of the program.

He must have thought it didn’t go well, or that he couldn’t go on with the rigors of the program, and to HIM, that meant he needed to start killing people.

It reminds me of people who killed themselves during the stock crash in ‘29 because they had nothing but money. When their finances were wiped out, they jumped off of buildings.

Except for one thing, they killed THEMSELVES, not a bunch of innocent movie goers in a theater.


4 posted on 07/26/2012 5:26:10 AM PDT by txrangerette ("HOLD TO THE TRUTH...SPEAK WITHOUT FEAR." - Glenn Beck)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Setting up that insanity plea.

The media is helping because it fuels arguments for keeping guns out of EVERYONE’S hands (just in case a few of us gun clingers might turn out to be insane).


5 posted on 07/26/2012 5:28:12 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Love the cult, respect the leader, but I simply can't drink the koolaid and die.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Some of the smartest people I know can have the biggest problems. I have a mentally ill nephew. He is a genius140 IQ. I can ask him the hardest questions on " jeopardy ". He can answer them. It does not mean anything compared to his emotional mental problems.

He is stark raving mad at times.

If you ever see the movie " A Beautiful Mind" you can only begin to maybe scratch the surface to understand. I am always praying for him.

6 posted on 07/26/2012 5:33:59 AM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: knarf
Chooses neuroscience for an advanced study.

"Holmes had been a student at the University of Colorado, but withdrew last month, according to the university. He was getting a PhD in neuroscience. A "James Holmes" is listed as enrolled in a class at the university called "Biological Basis of Psychiatric and Neurological Disorders."

Holmes also received a B.S. in neuroscience from the University of California Riverside in 2010, where he graduated with honors."

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2012/07/20/who-is-james-holmes-suspected-shooter-is-24-may-have-house-full-of-explosives-
____________________________________________________________________________________

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

"The day of the shooting, [Amy] Bishop taught her anatomy and neurosciences class and then attended a faculty meeting in the third floor of the Shelby Center for Science and Technology."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Bishop#Shooting
____________________________________________________________________________________

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"A family source said Bishop, a mother of four children - the youngest a third-grade boy - was a far-left political extremist who was "obsessed" with President Obama to the point of being off-putting."--Boston Herald, February 15, 2010

'Oddball' portrait of Amy Bishop emerges:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20100215oddball_protrait_emerges_suspects_family_pals_offer_clues/srvc=home&position=0
___________________________________________________

7 posted on 07/26/2012 5:35:55 AM PDT by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: ETL

Holy friggin’ brain surgeons, Batman ... I’d forgotten about that lady.


8 posted on 07/26/2012 5:38:56 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: johngrace
If you ever see the movie " A Beautiful Mind" you can only begin to maybe scratch the surface to understand. I am always praying for him.

Just as diseases of the heart,lungs,kidney and liver clearly exist so,too,do diseases of the brain.When your heart is abnormal it might ship beats,pump inefficiently,etc,etc.When your liver is abnormal you might turn yellow or feel weak,etc,etc.When your brain's abnormal you might have abnormal thought and sometimes act on these thoughts.Schizophrenia exists...it's a chronic,devastating brain disease that destroys lives...just as certain types of heart disease destroy lives.

My diagnosis is Schizophrenia.He's exactly the right age for it.

9 posted on 07/26/2012 5:41:58 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Poor Barack.If He's Reelected,Think Of The Mess He'll Inherit!)
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To: knarf

That’s not his gene pool. He was adopted.


10 posted on 07/26/2012 5:47:00 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: kabumpo
I missed that .. thanx.

Hmmm .. if he's a crack baby and surrounded by all this achievement he was incapable of ...

Just thinkin', that's all ...

11 posted on 07/26/2012 5:49:37 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

His family must be mortified - church-going people having something like this land at their doorstep.


12 posted on 07/26/2012 5:51:13 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Schizophrenia is not comparable to hepatitis or congestive heart failure, which have physical symptoms that can be seen. Schizophrenia is not a disease of the brain. A brain tumor is a disease of the brain.


13 posted on 07/26/2012 5:55:10 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: knarf

Good point.


14 posted on 07/26/2012 5:56:25 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Your point is well taken. In fact, even given the dubious source (NBC “News”), I still think Holmes’ mother did identify him as the likely mass murderer. This fits in with his trouble with the internship program and a developing illness. Indeed, I suspect the family knew all about it, was horrified, did its best to conceal the problem, and didn’t know what to do about it.


15 posted on 07/26/2012 5:57:21 AM PDT by libstripper
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To: knarf

What do you mean “interesting gene pool” he was adopted.


16 posted on 07/26/2012 5:59:16 AM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: kabumpo
That’s not his gene pool. He was adopted.

While John Derbyshire views the New York Post as the country's paper of record, I suspect that this bit of news isn't necessarily reliable.

17 posted on 07/26/2012 5:59:28 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: knarf
He comes from a pretty interesting gene pool

Those were not his biological parents. He was adopted.

18 posted on 07/26/2012 6:00:58 AM PDT by nightlight7
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To: johngrace
Some of the smartest people I know can have the biggest problems. I have a mentally ill nephew. He is a genius140 IQ

There was a guy like that in my dorm. So genius he bordered on madness. Would wear his watch on his ankle...stuff like that.

19 posted on 07/26/2012 6:01:17 AM PDT by trailhkr1 (Bigamy: Having at least one wife too many. Monogamy: Definitely having one wife too many.)
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To: Gay State Conservative

I agree with the schizophrenia diagnosis. I’m not a shrink, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I was also a prosecutor for 18 years and tried several murder cases where the insanity defense was raised. Even though he can be diagnosed with schizophrenia, and a fairly bad case of it, that alone does not mean he is “insane” in the legal sense of the word. In order for his insanity defense to fly, he must suffer from a mental disease or defect to the extent that he is unable to appreciate the wrongfulness of his conduct. One of the main things forensic shrinks look at in determining legal “sanity” is the ability to plan. In this case, he clearly had a plan, not only for the theater but also in the booby-trapping of his home. Sure, it was an evil and diabolical plan. Nor was it a very good one. But it was a plan, and I think that’s what the jury will hang their hats on to convict him with a Guilty but Mentally Ill verdict.


20 posted on 07/26/2012 6:02:28 AM PDT by henkster (We're the slaves of the phony leaders...)
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To: kabumpo
Schizophrenia is not a disease of the brain. A brain tumor is a disease of the brain.

Well,at least you've got that half right.Have you ever seen the brain of a schizophrenic sitting right next to one belonging to a normal person? I have.Big,big,*big* difference.I've also seen a side by side comparison of the brain scans of a schizophrenic and a "normal" person.Huge difference.These are just two of the thousands of experiences regarding schizophrenia that 20 years at a very famous teaching hospital afforded me.Graduate from medical school...or at least have the same type of experiences as I've had...and we'll talk.

21 posted on 07/26/2012 6:02:46 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Poor Barack.If He's Reelected,Think Of The Mess He'll Inherit!)
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To: knarf

crack babies do not grow up to be neuroscientists. However children of schitzopherenics do and can.


22 posted on 07/26/2012 6:03:57 AM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: knarf
crack babies do not grow up to be neuroscientists. However children of schizophrenics do and can.
23 posted on 07/26/2012 6:04:14 AM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Reminds me a bit of the after-the-fact profile that was published of the 2007 Virginia Tech student.


24 posted on 07/26/2012 6:06:12 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (FUMR)
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To: henkster
I think that’s what the jury will hang their hats on to convict him with a Guilty but Mentally Ill verdict.

I'll certainly accept you as a legal expert and,given your experience,accept yours as a potential outcome here.I,a rank amateur regarding the law,believe that not everything that's legal is moral.If,by some chance,my "diagnosis" is correct then the laws,as currently written,may deem him to be culpable to some degree but I'd be very reluctant to deem him to be "morally" guilty.Perhaps he needs to spend the rest of his life in a psych hospital but very possibly not in a prison.

25 posted on 07/26/2012 6:11:42 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Poor Barack.If He's Reelected,Think Of The Mess He'll Inherit!)
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To: ETL

my jaw dropped.
I didn’t expect to see her here.

neuroscience should be banned.


26 posted on 07/26/2012 6:17:03 AM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: Chickensoup

Thanx .. I don’t know the specifics, but this is sure to take a little attention off of the incompetent usurper bastard in Washington DC... and the other 56 states


27 posted on 07/26/2012 6:18:09 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: henkster

It’s always made sense to me that a criminal must have opportunity, means and motive. What is missing here is motive, which suggests the possibility of insanity to me.


28 posted on 07/26/2012 6:20:35 AM PDT by The Duke
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To: libstripper
Indeed, I suspect the family knew all about it, was horrified, did its best to conceal the problem, and didn’t know what to do about it.

It would take far too long to go into detail but at the big city ER in which I worked for 20 years we had a "regular" (big city ER's have *many* such patients) who was from a very wealthy family who was a serious,and chronic,schizophrenic.He wandered the streets,begged for money,was routinely dirty, disheveled and desperately confused.Very sad indeed.I met his parents once and heard them speak of just how helpless they were regarding their son given the laws regarding involuntary hospitalization,legal guardianship,etc.They seemed very sincere to me.

29 posted on 07/26/2012 6:21:29 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Poor Barack.If He's Reelected,Think Of The Mess He'll Inherit!)
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To: 1_Rain_Drop
neuroscience should be banned.

Why?

30 posted on 07/26/2012 6:23:28 AM PDT by trailhkr1 (Bigamy: Having at least one wife too many. Monogamy: Definitely having one wife too many.)
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To: libstripper

IMHO I kind of side with the mom on the argument of the phone call issue. They called her extremely early and described her son and I could easily see her asking “you have the right one?” OR maybe they were just describing him to her and didn’t tell her He was the suspected shooter, and she was just saying “you have the right one” about the identity verification. Not realizing he was the shooter.


31 posted on 07/26/2012 6:23:52 AM PDT by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: Gay State Conservative

People really want to pretend that the brain isn’t a physical object that can have structural or chemical flaws that affect behavior - I think it’s anxiety over “free will.”

I honestly think there are more people that believe in demonic posession on FR than that believe it’s possible for there to be chemically, structurally, or genetically based mental illness.

A little sad since it is the year 2012, not the year 1012, the last time I checked.


32 posted on 07/26/2012 6:25:10 AM PDT by Strategerist
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To: Strategerist
I honestly think there are more people that believe in demonic posession on FR than that believe it’s possible for there to be chemically, structurally, or genetically based mental illness.

Photobucket
33 posted on 07/26/2012 6:36:16 AM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Gay State Conservative

You have hit upon the philosophical justification for the insanity defense: if a person is so mentally screwed up that they cannot even understand that what they are doing is wrong, then there is no justification in punishing them. However, if there is a basis to find that they could appreciate that shooting patrons of a movie theater is wrong, then they cannot evade the criminal consequences.

Your post caused me to check Colorado’s statutes regarding insanity. I practice in Indiana, and Colorado has very different statutes. The test for insanity in Colorado is phrased differently, but it is the same test: “unable to appreciate right from wrong.” The procedure is much different. In Indiana, once insanity has been raised as a defense, the defendant has the burden to prove they are insane by a preponderance of the evidence. Under Colorado law, the Court appoints psychiatrists to examine the defendant, and then determines from their reports whether the defendant is permitted to raise the defense at trial. If the Court permits the defense, the State must then prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is sane. From a legal perspective, the prosecutor in Colorado has a more difficult time than he would in Indiana.

The result of a trial where insanity is raised as a defense is “all or nothing.” If he’s found guilty, he’s sentenced, but if there is a certifiable mental disorder, he must be given psychiatric treatment. If found not responsible by reason of insanity (it’s not “not guilty,” it’s “not responsible”), then he’s committed to the mental health agency for regular mental commitment proceedings. Indiana offers a jury the middle ground of finding someone “Guilty but Mentally Ill,” which is still guilty but the Court must take mental illness into account as a reason to reduce a sentence, and the person must receive mental health treatment.

Having said all that, juries (at least those composed of regular folks, not whack jobs) do not like the insanity defense. As a practical matter, despite what the Colorado criminal code says, a defense lawyer pushing an insanity defense will have to show a long history of documented diagnoses of mental illness, and not just a client who acts goofy after killing a lot of people.

If I were prosecuting this case in Colorado, there is one salient fact that I would pound relentlessly: the guns in the car outside the exit door. If the guy could not appreciate that what he was doing was wrong, he would have tried to take all the guns into the theater past the ticket window and ticket taker, with no attempt at concealment. The fact that he had to conceal the guns outside an exit door shows he had a minimal understanding of the wrongfulness of his conduct, and that also shows that his thinking was not so disordered that he could not concoct a plan to get around the question of “how do I get my arsenal into the theater?”


34 posted on 07/26/2012 6:43:34 AM PDT by henkster (We're the slaves of the phony leaders...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I think what we're seeing is a fragile young man who was able to skate through the reduced standards of US public education, who was probably recognized as intelligent, but whose work was never judged with real rigor because of the fear that it would be damaging or the hope that positive reinforcement would help him through his awkwardness.

When he finally reached a level where those in charge cared more about the quality of his work (or the reputation of their institution), it became obvious to him that, for all his supposed "genius," he wasn't even near the middle of this one program.

I think it's pretty common for bright kids to get to college, coming from a high school where they may have been able to recognize themselves as the "smartest" kid in the class, and find they're just one of many.

And with the recognition that no matter how "smart" you think you are, all that matters is the work you put out, he likely saw people he felt superior to getting better results than he did, and he resented that and felt cheated by the world.

35 posted on 07/26/2012 6:45:46 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: The Duke

see post 34, especially the last paragraph. It is not necessary for the State to prove a motive to kill. It helps, but that’s not the key in an insanity case. It’s strictly a test of whether or not Holmes knew it was wrong.


36 posted on 07/26/2012 6:46:59 AM PDT by henkster (We're the slaves of the phony leaders...)
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To: kabumpo

The adoption part of this is interesting. Perhaps more details will come out.

Father worked for a company that had been involved with DARPA on a project involving the brain.

Grandfather was likely involved with some kind of intelligence.

Mass Killer involved with a grant studying the brain.

I think he either experimented on himself or was experimented on.

Don’t forget that the Unabomber was experimented by a Harvard professor that had been involved with the OSS.

It will be interesting to see the timeline between the time he went out of the theater and the time he started shooting.

He started shooting at 12:38.The movie started at 12:05(does that included trailers???). this according to ABC

I don’t think I have seen any reports of seeing a red haired clown guy in the theater but I may have missed them.


37 posted on 07/26/2012 6:49:24 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: Strategerist
So, it's never because people are just evil?

You can't imagine someone killing a bunch of people because they're pissed off?

How about the Happy Land Social Club killer? Did he kill 80 people because he was a schizophrenic or because he was mad as his girlfriend? Or because he was drunk?

I somewhat agree with you, though, that many here, on both sides, seem to have to have some deeply hidden explanation, either medical or spiritual, for this guy's behavior, just because "most" people wouldn't do this.

Maybe it's neither, and the guy was just a complete asshole who couldn't handle failure.

38 posted on 07/26/2012 6:55:47 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: kabumpo

Schizophrenia is not comparable to hepatitis or congestive heart failure, which have physical symptoms that can be seen. Schizophrenia is not a disease of the brain. A brain tumor is a disease of the brain.
__________________

Schizophrenia tracks with changes in brain size and function.


39 posted on 07/26/2012 6:57:59 AM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: kabumpo

Schizophrenia is not comparable to hepatitis or congestive heart failure, which have physical symptoms that can be seen. Schizophrenia is not a disease of the brain. A brain tumor is a disease of the brain.
__________________

Schizophrenia tracks with changes in brain size and function.


40 posted on 07/26/2012 6:58:28 AM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: Gay State Conservative

The reductionistic “everything is physical if it has observable characteristcs” approach to mental/emotional dysfunction has found no causative factor and no solution to this alleged disease of the brain. In fact, this reductionistic, materialistic approach has probably caused even more harm and anguish to the afflicted by denying/ignoring the environmental/familial factors that influence mental/emotional breakdown.

By the way, how is that research on the “gay gene” coming along?


41 posted on 07/26/2012 6:59:15 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: libstripper

Indeed, I suspect the family knew all about it, was horrified, did its best to conceal the problem, and didn’t know what to do about it.
___________________________________

I doubt that they concealed it. One cannot make an insane adult do anything that they do not want to do, including seeking help. As long as the insane one does not fit the criteria of being and IMMENINT risk to themselves, to others or not able to care for themselves and are at IMMENINT risk, there is NOTHING anyone can do to address the problems they see.


42 posted on 07/26/2012 7:05:24 AM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: libstripper
Indeed, I suspect the family knew all about it, was horrified, did its best to conceal the problem, and didn't’t know what to do about it.
___________________________________

I doubt that they concealed it. One cannot make an insane adult do anything that they do not want to do, including seeking help. As long as the insane one does not fit the criteria of being and IMMENINT risk to themselves, to others or not able to care for themselves and are at IMMENINT risk, there is NOTHING anyone can do to address the problems they see.

43 posted on 07/26/2012 7:05:40 AM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: henkster

there is a guilty but mentally ill verdict in your area? We still have innocent by reasons of insanity


44 posted on 07/26/2012 7:08:16 AM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: RummyChick


This supposedly was posted on the USMC facebook page.

1. Has anyone figured out whether this is a hoax.
2. Is what he saying in that letter right??
45 posted on 07/26/2012 7:08:27 AM PDT by RummyChick
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To: henkster

I don’t know if schizophrenia would be the likeliest diagnosis. Schizophrenia is first a thought disorder — the “voices” a schizophrenic hears are disturbing and can reflect bad intentions, but they’re not very good at planning things, particularly over a long period of time (evidently, this guy was gathering material for his evil project months in advance).

Schizophrenia slows you down, especially if you start taking medications for it; when an acquaintance of mine started developing schizophrenia in graduate school, being in his presence made you feel like time had slowed down for him — it was very difficult for him to transition from one activity to another, and he would tend to settle by default into a pattern of aimless pacing. As the disease progresses, one’s inability to complete even simple activities of daily living (hygiene, getting to appointments) becomes increasingly pronounced.

In Holmes’s case I suspect a personality disorder combined with bipolar mood disorder: the guy had intelligence enough to stick with a sophisticated plan (no serious thought disorder) that showed extreme inability to empathize with other people (severe personality disorder), and shifted into a high-gear, maniacal flurry of activity after experiencing some emotional trigger (manic phase of bipolar disorder). Mentally ill, yes, but fully capable of understanding the immorality and criminality of his deeds.


46 posted on 07/26/2012 7:09:20 AM PDT by thanatz
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To: Mrs. Don-o

drugs


47 posted on 07/26/2012 7:10:27 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: henkster
I have long thought that the legal system's attitude about insane murderers is itself insane. In my opinion, insanity on the part of a murderer is all the more reason that they should be killed.

If a dog is rabid, we put it down. We do not care that it wasn't the dog's fault that it was rabid. We also don't care that it didn't understand what was happening to it.

48 posted on 07/26/2012 7:13:04 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Brilliant people can have no moral standards or respect for authority. His so-called mental disease did not keep him from getting through school and plotting a mass killing. This killer is a product or our degenerate culture, which treats lack of character as a medical condition.


49 posted on 07/26/2012 7:17:32 AM PDT by Socon-Econ (Socon-Econ)
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To: Gay State Conservative
Perhaps he needs to spend the rest of his life in a psych hospital but very possibly not in a prison.

Often I hear of murderers getting some other sentence than "death." I always refer to this as "sentencing the taxpayers to life in prison."

50 posted on 07/26/2012 7:17:32 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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