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Ford's Trade-In: Truck to Use Aluminum in Place of Steel
WSJ ^ | 07/26/2012 | MIKE RAMSEY

Posted on 07/27/2012 2:33:00 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd

Edited on 07/27/2012 2:39:50 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

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To: cableguymn

Lots of specialty alloys to combat that problem


101 posted on 07/27/2012 6:11:21 PM PDT by Figment
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To: Yo-Yo

Agreed.Aluminum can be much cheaper as well as being lighter when you are talking about casting. Body parts are going to be another story. Wouldn’t be surprised to see them use more plastic and some aluminum, but not all aluminum


102 posted on 07/27/2012 6:16:47 PM PDT by Figment
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To: mriguy67

They will take the tail gate. They are already made to come off. Very easy if someone leaves it unlocked.


103 posted on 07/27/2012 6:18:07 PM PDT by cableguymn (For the first time in my life. I fear my country's government.)
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To: C210N
Totally agree, I was referring to the strength though.

At Northwest Airlines we received a used 747 cargo version bought from an Asian cargo carrier, ergo, lots of ocean side airports.

It was scheduled for a light check at MSP which soon went into a heavy check and subsequently into a major check.

Over 6,000 write ups on that one plane, which of course, NWA management thought was a work action.

Fasteners along the keel beam had exfoliation (how aluminum corrodes) higher than the fastener heads.

The other aspect of the truck is if the cab is aluminum and the frame still steel, isolation of the dissimilar metals will have to be addressed due electrolytic corrosion. These two metals have different electrical properties causing current flow between them when touching, hence the corrosion.

104 posted on 07/27/2012 6:21:24 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: BlatherNaut

The windstar is another one that will rust to pieces and major parts will fall off.. Like rusted sub frames that allow the control arms to separate from the van or rear axles that rust out from the inside out and can kill ya..

The taurus had the same type of problems with subframes fall out due to rust and broken springs again due to rust..

Good luck to um. Buy the time I get around to buying one of this marvels they will have been well tested. I don’t by anything with less than 250K on it. My current van(s) will be turning 300K in 1-5 months.

Both are pre-bail out Chevy’s.


105 posted on 07/27/2012 6:24:17 PM PDT by cableguymn (For the first time in my life. I fear my country's government.)
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To: Nowhere Man

If they want to make a rustless car, why not stainless steel?

Weight and cost. This isn’t about rust prevention, it’s about weight reduction to meet fuel economy


106 posted on 07/27/2012 6:25:02 PM PDT by Figment
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To: anoldafvet

I believe the OBAMA CAFE standard for cars and light trucks in 2025 is 54.5 mpg. There are almost NO vehicles today that can meet that standard. I think the Prius does but if you are over 5”5” tall, forget it.


The Volkswagen diesels are very close to 54.5 MPG but to meet the “average” it’s going to have to be close to 100 MPG to balance with the pickups.

As much as I hate the Prius, Ford stuck me in one while they waited for parts for my Windstar during the recall. It was slow as snot but my 6 foot body fit in it just fine.


107 posted on 07/27/2012 6:29:06 PM PDT by cableguymn (For the first time in my life. I fear my country's government.)
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To: Boiler Plate

I’ll have to take your word for it. Rovers don’t seem to last long up here in the rust belt. (I don’t know why.. traded and sent some place else?) Sometimes you see one that is a year or two old, but never much older than that.


108 posted on 07/27/2012 6:30:57 PM PDT by cableguymn (For the first time in my life. I fear my country's government.)
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To: Hodar

“painting Aluminum is going to be an issue.”

The least of their worries.

Auto makers have been painting aluminum for decades. Ever see a Miata hood with bad paint? Even Dodge has used aluminum hoods on their trucks for the last 4 or 5 years without a problem.

Biggest bitch I have with aluminum body panels is that they dent SO easy. We had a hail storm once that didn’t do a thing to the steel parts of my vehicles, but dented the hell out of one of the hoods- which was aluminum.

I wish the damned Govt. would stay out of our business.


109 posted on 07/27/2012 6:31:38 PM PDT by Nik Naym (It's not my fault... I have compulsive smartass disorder.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

There is no such thing as “just” aluminum (unless you’re extracting ore) it is all alloy of differing concoctions. Even your beer can is an alloy specifically chosen for that lone purpose. I work in aluminum die casting, we use three different alloys for different parts according to the application and customer demands. There is no pure aluminum.


110 posted on 07/27/2012 6:32:08 PM PDT by Figment
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To: count-your-change

but it’ll only last 5 or 6 years...


111 posted on 07/27/2012 6:34:58 PM PDT by cableguymn (For the first time in my life. I fear my country's government.)
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To: count-your-change

More expensive per pound, cheaper by volume


112 posted on 07/27/2012 6:37:52 PM PDT by Figment
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To: C210N

Salt is not deadly to aluminum. In the air or in the sea. Galvanic action with other metals however can be deadly. But aluminum will oxides rapidly in any environment and the resultant aluminum oxide layer will protect the aluminum from further corrosion in metal free environments with ph between about 4.5 to 8.5. Salt or no salt. Water or no water.


113 posted on 07/27/2012 7:04:20 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (.)
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To: Figment

I quite agree. But alloy metallurgy is so ridiculously complicated I can’t do more than opine that there might be something that aluminum could be doped with to make it much better for vehicular use.

Just wondering, have you seen any transparent aluminum? I am so hoping that somebody can figure out a way to mass produce it.

http://phys.org/news167925273.html


114 posted on 07/27/2012 7:07:43 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Little Bill

I remember the order coming down during Lam Sahn 719 for

tankers to be inside the tanks.Those rpg’s would do a number

On ‘em.Saw many with the top of the hull flapping when they

were being retreived

They also ordered everyone to wear flak jackets and pots


115 posted on 07/27/2012 7:26:47 PM PDT by Harold Shea (RVN `70 - `71)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Just wondering, have you seen any transparent aluminum? I am so hoping that somebody can figure out a way to mass produce it.

If someone can figure a function that it cheaply fits, it will catch on in manufacturing. If not , it will just be a cool afterthought.It will have to fit a practical use and be cheap to manufacture to be of any use


116 posted on 07/27/2012 7:28:29 PM PDT by Figment
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To: DannyTN

Do they even think they make an aluminum that is as tough as steel? <<<

of course they do!!...it’s just 4 inches thicker and has to weigh as much!


117 posted on 07/27/2012 7:33:02 PM PDT by M-cubed
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To: yarddog

Sky King was the man... the father of Penny. He flew the plane and triumphed over the bad guys.

LLS


118 posted on 07/27/2012 7:34:11 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: cripplecreek
Don't even tell me about “safety anti-lock breaks”...I was almost killed ‘cause I couldn't get into the slide I wanted to avoid the head on...at least i could have had them hit be in the rear side if I'd have had actual breaks and could have gotten sideways!!
119 posted on 07/27/2012 7:43:10 PM PDT by M-cubed
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To: Figment
it’s about weight reduction to meet fuel economy <<

hell....if that's all it's about..make ‘em out of paper....in a good headwind they may get off the ground if designed right...

120 posted on 07/27/2012 7:49:14 PM PDT by M-cubed
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To: Figment

Want to know what’s wrong with Americans? Look at this thread!

Americans used to want to push the envelope, to be the first with new technologies and materials. But now we want to cower with WWII technology when the Space Age already seems old-fashioned.


121 posted on 07/27/2012 8:00:11 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: yarddog
Didn’t Land Rover use aluminum bodies?

They made certain panels such as the hood out of aluminum. Several manufacturers have done it with great success. MGA's of the early sixties used aluminum doors, hoods and trunks. Abbarth and others did it too. I think it could be a fantastic improvement. Now, if they would just do it with a nice six cylinder diesel . . . Aluminum can be anodized making for a very hard surface that resists corrosion. If anyone doesn't think aluminum to be structurally sound, they had maybe better not get on a 747. At 950,000 pounds, aluminum wings and landing gear couldn't possibly support one.

122 posted on 07/27/2012 8:17:23 PM PDT by Colorado Doug (Now I know how the Indians felt to be sold out for a few beads and trinkets)
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To: Maine Mariner

No, I am not confusing ships. Both the Graf Spee and the Bismarck were scuttled by their crews. Michael Ballard found no hull damage to the Bismarck, proving the crew’s claim that they scuttled their ship to prevent capture.


123 posted on 07/27/2012 8:59:54 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: LibLieSlayer

True. But even though you were able to get high enough temps to burn a hole in the top of the piston, the engine didn’t catch fire. All the 2-stroke engines I had were aluminum alloy.


124 posted on 07/27/2012 9:31:37 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: tacticalogic
Thermite is made out of powdered aluminum and iron oxide, and the iron oxide is just there to provide oxygen. You usually use a magnesium fuse to set it off.

Powdered aluminum, some rust, and a sparkler to light it with.

Great way to get rid of a hard drive. Or... a car.

Thermite VS Car Cool Video

125 posted on 07/27/2012 9:36:52 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Surrounded_too

The Kriegsmarine’s three Panzerschiffen, or pocket battleships, were the “Graf Spee”, “Deutschland””, and “Admiral Scheer”.

The “Bismarck” and her sister “Tirpitz” were two of the largest capital ships ever built, in excess of 55,000 tons.


126 posted on 07/27/2012 10:52:12 PM PDT by Emperor Palpatine (Tosca, mi fai dimenticare Iddio!!!!!)
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To: ozzymandus

Not to mention that God-awful movie with Kenny More and the bathtub toy boats......which makes Lütjens into a raving Nazi when he was apolitical.


127 posted on 07/27/2012 11:00:12 PM PDT by Emperor Palpatine (Tosca, mi fai dimenticare Iddio!!!!!)
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To: nascarnation

No problem with anything you say. The masses need stuff.

In the long run the masses benefit from the creativity and innovation, first used in luxury products.

I was trying to suggest that the (former big) three have not led in the way they once did.

BTW the Audi Q7 will introduced an aluminum body, with weight saving of over 600 lbs. in this AWD SUV, which is also available with turbodiesel power.

A turbodiesel American full sized SUV would sell very well, but there is not one.

VW uses turbodiesels in several models, with good prices. Again, a market the (former big) three choose to forfeit.

So again, Detroit does not lead, nor do they even try to follow these days.


128 posted on 07/27/2012 11:16:56 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: UCANSEE2
I have seen blocks melt when Nitro Methane goes wrong... the first thing that you see is the cowling melt... then smoke... and then when all is done... a block that has sections that look like a stick of Land-O-Lakes left out in a midday Sun in July.

LLS

129 posted on 07/28/2012 4:26:47 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: LibLieSlayer

I think Sky was her uncle. :)


130 posted on 07/28/2012 8:09:57 AM PDT by Dartman
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To: M-cubed

There lies the other problem the government throws in the way SAFETY. Get government out of the way and the carmakers and consumers will come up with great vehicles


131 posted on 07/28/2012 8:47:48 AM PDT by Figment
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To: Dartman

May have been... that was 45 years ago!

LLS


132 posted on 07/28/2012 9:31:00 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: Harold Shea
I wasn't clear APCs, Arcavs. When I first went over the grunts rode inside of the M-113 a mine or an RPG produced the equivalent of MUNG, if you remember the old joke.

When I went back on my second tour, 1967, the grunts rode on top. The only people who rode with their legs inside were gunners on a gun track with pots and flack jackets. Not that they helped much if you got in the way of the splash from an RPG.

133 posted on 07/28/2012 11:06:09 AM PDT by Little Bill
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To: Responsibility2nd
re Ford truck: now available: Bumper-to-Bumper Dealer After-Market Steel Bodies. Presto-Chango brand. Steel Body ONLY sold separately, and ONLY before Aluminum Body driven off the lot. Tax & License not included. Remarkably generous trade-in for the Aluminum Body if it can be immediately reused at the “factory.”
134 posted on 07/28/2012 2:21:57 PM PDT by Museum Twenty (If every truth & hidden motivation were to tumble out, not one supporter would turn against him.)
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To: Figment

Doesn’t aluminum manufacturing use much more electricity than with other materials? I wonder if anyone has modeled what the effect of the greater power load is on the grid and where the additional electricity is going to come from.


135 posted on 07/30/2012 4:44:39 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

“The F-250 will continue to be made with steel.
Heavier pickups are exempt from the gas mileage rule.”

I’m not disputing you, but do you have a link to the actual rule. I’ve searched and searched, and it seems to be some closely-guarded national secret.


136 posted on 07/30/2012 5:04:02 AM PDT by BobL ( It's easy to be a saint when you have nothing on the line)
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To: The KG9 Kid

“The problems with those vehicles (and all applications where steel surfaces meet with aluminum surfaces) is that the materials do chemically react with one another, especially when exposed to salt and water. Defender 90s seem to have interesting rust problems where steel meets aluminum. “

If Ford treats the owners of 150s like Nissan treats Leaf owners, there will be a clause in the Warranty excluding damage from driving on salted roads.


137 posted on 07/30/2012 5:06:16 AM PDT by BobL ( It's easy to be a saint when you have nothing on the line)
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To: BobL

I stopped by the local Ford dealer here and asked about the new truck. The mgr said it was likely to be a 2013 or could be a 2014. The 250 diesel will have steel body parts but is not exempt from the urea requirement for exhaust treatment. Sorry, I can’t quote the regs...


138 posted on 07/30/2012 5:29:12 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (I didn't post this. Someone else did.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

“I stopped by the local Ford dealer here and asked about the new truck. The mgr said it was likely to be a 2013 or could be a 2014. The 250 diesel will have steel body parts but is not exempt from the urea requirement for exhaust treatment. Sorry, I can’t quote the regs...”

Thanks and no prob. The 250 diesel sounds like a decent vehicle (even if it is union-made, no choice there). The urea requirement is nothing much - it’s to get the soot out. It’s a simple system and it’s on all of the rigs now.


139 posted on 07/30/2012 5:35:35 AM PDT by BobL ( It's easy to be a saint when you have nothing on the line)
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To: Truth29

In the SE USA where most of the new auto production is headed, it will come from TVA. There are two ways to meet new fuel regs, size reduction and weight reduction. Americans have shown they don’t want smaller vehicles, thus there will be lighter materials used in ways not done before now


140 posted on 07/30/2012 12:35:11 PM PDT by Figment
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