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Ford's Trade-In: Truck to Use Aluminum in Place of Steel
WSJ ^ | 07/26/2012 | MIKE RAMSEY

Posted on 07/27/2012 2:33:00 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd

Edited on 07/27/2012 2:39:50 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

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To: Responsibility2nd
@strong aluminum alloy

It depends on what they go with. There have been some great advances with aluminum alloys, though I don't expect they'll use the @transparent aluminum that has been invented.

51 posted on 07/27/2012 3:38:51 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: null and void; Sacajaweau; cripplecreek; Responsibility2nd

This is especially good news since the United States currently mines and produces, like, 483% of the world’s aluminum.


52 posted on 07/27/2012 3:38:51 PM PDT by bigheadfred
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To: Responsibility2nd

Aircraft are made of aluminum, and they’re plenty strong. It all depends on the design. A hood, for example, probably doesn’t contribute much, if anything, to the rigidity and durability of a truck. Aluminum could probably replace plenty of steel parts without compromising the “toughness” of a vehicle.

Chrysler experimented with aluminum parts in the 70s (look up Plymouth Feather Duster). From what I understand, the problem with aluminum wasn’t so much toughness as cost.


53 posted on 07/27/2012 3:48:01 PM PDT by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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To: Nowhere Man

Right down to the Tracks. When you look at Soldiers riding in Viet Nam, they are riding on top of the track. The damned things were mine traps and fire traps. An RPG would eat through the side armor like it wasn’t there.


54 posted on 07/27/2012 3:48:49 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: cripplecreek
Don’t they use aluminum powder in rocket fuel?

Ya, IIRC, the space shuttle boaster rockets burned a propellant that contained a large amount of aluminum. I've built amature rockets using aluminum powder.

My '99 F-150 4x4 V6 step-side 5-Speed Tranny has an aluminum hood, heads, intake manifold, oil pan, and gearbox case. Rear step-box is mostly fiberglass. The paint is in excellant condition on the hood with almost 200K miles on these Louisiana bug filled roads.

It has been the best little truck that I've ever owned. Doubt I'll ever part with it...

55 posted on 07/27/2012 3:53:53 PM PDT by Errant
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To: Responsibility2nd

However...aluminum is a tad more expensive than steel and that means higher prices for the truck. How much higher? Who knows?


56 posted on 07/27/2012 3:54:54 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Hodar

Compared to steel, painting and welding aluminum is more difficult. Still, aluminum has many advantages. As with all things engineered, there are always tradeoffs. I’d love to have some of the steel components, things like hoods, trunk lids, and fenders, changed to aluminum on my vehicles. One place where they better pay close attention is anywhere where aluminum and steel parts connect.


57 posted on 07/27/2012 3:56:48 PM PDT by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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To: cableguymn
It’s not... steel and aluminum don’t mix. Salt eats it worse than steel.

The last Ford I bought (Expedition), the section of frame that supports the engine rusted out by the time it was five years old. Mechanic told me the engine would likely fall right out while driving. Also said this was a common problem with that particular model.

Before that I owned an F-150, and by the time it was 2 years old, the paint on the roof and hood was bubbling and peeling in large swathes. To be fair, Ford did repaint it at no charge.

No way I'll be lining up to buy their newest tin can innovation.

58 posted on 07/27/2012 3:57:14 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
I read somewhere a long time ago where the early M-113 APC's had aluminium as armor...

They still are, including M109 howitzers and many other combat vehicles including some of the newer lightweight, air transportable tanks.

Btw, many navy ships are now being built of aluminum.

59 posted on 07/27/2012 3:58:10 PM PDT by Errant
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To: All


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60 posted on 07/27/2012 4:03:57 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: Errant
Ya, IIRC, the space shuttle boaster rockets burned a propellant that contained a large amount of aluminum. I've built amature rockets using aluminum powder.

Aluminum will burn violently if you can get it hot enough. Thermite is made out of powdered aluminum and iron oxide, and the iron oxide is just there to provide oxygen. You usually use a magnesium fuse to set it off.

61 posted on 07/27/2012 4:04:08 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: count-your-change
that means higher prices for the truck.

I've always felt the real agenda of the "regulators" (safety, fuel economy, and emissions) was to drive up the cost of vehicles, making them too expensive for serfs, and driving the serfs toward public transit.

It's starting to work, the average age of US vehicles is at an all time high, 10.8 years. I think the ultimate desire is to make us look like Cuba.

62 posted on 07/27/2012 4:04:57 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Responsibility2nd
I believe the OBAMA CAFE standard for cars and light trucks in 2025 is 54.5 mpg. There are almost NO vehicles today that can meet that standard. I think the Prius does but if you are over 5"5" tall, forget it.

Fuel economy is a function of weight (size) and efficiency. Todays technology is pretty close to the maximum efficiency for a Rankine Cycle (Internal combustion) engine. Without a new engine, the entire car will have to be made of rice paper and only allow one passenger.

63 posted on 07/27/2012 4:06:12 PM PDT by anoldafvet
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To: tacticalogic
Yes, aluminum will burn if supported but magnesium will burn practically on it's own.
64 posted on 07/27/2012 4:10:03 PM PDT by Errant
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To: Responsibility2nd

Sure is great to see good old American leadership at work but here are some interesting facts:

In 2002 Audi built thei 150,000th aluminum vehicle

In 1923 Audi experimented with alloy engines and auto bodies

http://www.audiworld.com/news/02/aluminum/content1.shtml

The once great American auto industry took risks, was creative and innovative.

But eventually it was a giant union manufacturer, and became totally risk-adverse.

Ford could be the best of the (once big) three, but is far from the industry leaders in Europe, Japan and even Korea.


65 posted on 07/27/2012 4:16:25 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: Errant

To further clarify, it depends upon size. For instance, powdered zinc will sponstanoulsy ignite in moist air.


66 posted on 07/27/2012 4:17:01 PM PDT by Errant
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To: ozzymandus; Surrounded_too

Bismarck wasn’t a “pocket battleship.

Correct, the “Pocket Battleships” were actually large cruisers and included the Deutschland, Admiral Scheer, and the well known Admiral Graf Spee


67 posted on 07/27/2012 4:19:44 PM PDT by Boiler Plate ("Why be difficult, when with just a little more work, you can be impossible" Mom)
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To: truth_seeker

I’m sure a Ford pickup at Audi pricing will be a huge hit.


68 posted on 07/27/2012 4:26:04 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: cableguymn

Land Rover has been doing this for decades. It has worked out pretty well.


69 posted on 07/27/2012 4:27:02 PM PDT by Boiler Plate ("Why be difficult, when with just a little more work, you can be impossible" Mom)
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To: foundedonpurpose

-——is now looking at plastic.-——

I would think fiberglass reinforced plastic would be an option. The big rigs now have FRP cabs and seem to do ok. They don’t get knocked about like pick ups but I don’t see aluminum doing much better for getting beat up and knocked around.

I wonder if they mean something like high density polyethylene? That material is both strong and very tough. It will not however take a decent finish.


70 posted on 07/27/2012 4:27:22 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: tacticalogic
Actually, steel burns exceedingly well in the presence of a high oxygen concentration and minor support (i.e. oxy/acy torch).
71 posted on 07/27/2012 4:28:35 PM PDT by Errant
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To: truth_seeker

There was a show on TV not long ago about some of the 1930s era auto racing and some of the terrible accidents. I remember Audi (Auto Union) was one of the really active participants.

One company built a race car out of magnesium. They showed film of it after a wreck. It caught on fire and they simply could not put it out. The driver didn’t have a chance.


72 posted on 07/27/2012 4:31:43 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: Errant

It will, but in a thermite reaction the iron is already oxidized, and actually gives up it’s oxygen to support the aluminum reaction. You’re left with a slug of aluminum oxide and molten iron.


73 posted on 07/27/2012 4:32:52 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: nascarnation
Nuthin but used cars for me at this point. I just paid $300 for this Dodge. Its got 300,000 miles on it but its been taken care of by an old hippie from my hometown who just retired from his job as a prison guard.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
74 posted on 07/27/2012 4:38:35 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: UCANSEE2

Thanks. I think I probably see a new one in his very near future.

I don’t care so much about what they do with cars because I refuse to drive one of those tinker toys on the freeway. I remember back when they first came out with a Ford Falcon which was a real dud and ugly to boot. Eventually we got our “tanks” back. Hopefully it will happen again. In the meantime I’ll just keep driving my several year old, paid for, comfortable, easy to maintain, non-electronically controlled Expedition.


75 posted on 07/27/2012 4:38:59 PM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: cripplecreek

Aluminium welds have a tendency to crack under flex. The body will have to be much stiffer.


76 posted on 07/27/2012 4:41:05 PM PDT by dblshot (Insanity: electing the same people over and over and expecting different results.)
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To: foundedonpurpose

All those Postal vehicles are aluminum as well....Really ugly when they catch on fire...


77 posted on 07/27/2012 4:43:13 PM PDT by halfright (FAST & FURIOUS! DON'T ALLOW THEM TO DIVERT YOUR ATTENTION.)
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To: BlatherNaut

I bought a 2004 Ford Explorer. Still have it, but I’ve put more into repairs for it than all my other cars combined over the last 35 years.

I’m keeping it for my youngest daughter to learn to drive in next year. If she wrecks it (& survives OK), I won’t mind if it is totaled.


78 posted on 07/27/2012 4:48:15 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberalism: "Ex faslo quodlibet" - from falseness, anything follows)
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To: cableguymn
It’s not... steel and aluminum don’t mix. Salt eats it worse than steel.

Not if the two are properly isolated from each other- something even the people at Ford could find a way to do.
79 posted on 07/27/2012 4:54:26 PM PDT by WackySam (Obama got Osama just like Nixon landed on the moon.)
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To: Red Badger

Roof of my hooch in Thailand used a roll of Budweiser can material before they were cut. My tiLoc was a scrounger. Sawaadee !

Aluminum truck.... Hope it works. Maybe we can shine it up like an airstream trailer or Sky Kings Cessna 310 !

Stay safe Badger.


80 posted on 07/27/2012 4:56:05 PM PDT by Squantos
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To: cripplecreek

You also have the advantage of not rusting.
********************************************
Aluminum rusts , it’s just white rust instead of red..


81 posted on 07/27/2012 4:56:41 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: Nowhere Man

Stainless steel tends to work harden as it moves and crack when you try to use it on car bodies.

There was a company that built aftermarket Jeep CJ bodies out of stainless back in the ‘70’s and they always cracked around the frame /body attachment bolt holes. They were beautiful bit every one I ever saw cracked given some use.


82 posted on 07/27/2012 5:03:42 PM PDT by Clay Moore (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: Responsibility2nd

We have an aluminum body Pierce Manufacturing fire engine going on 23 years. It has held up just fine. A few small bubbles have developed under some of the reflective striping. Other then that no problems .


83 posted on 07/27/2012 5:08:09 PM PDT by UB355 (Slower traffic keep right)
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To: nascarnation

“I’m sure a Ford pickup at Audi pricing will be a huge hit.”

Meanwhile the American cars go around and around the Nascar tracks, little or no innovation technology-wise.

Did you know Audi has won 24 hours of LeMans 11 of the last 13 years; first with gasoline, next diesel (first ever), and this year hybrid (first ever).

VW Group builds cars of all price ranges. Higher price range vehicles and racing prepare for future innovations in all lines.

Whoops. The (former big) three all but gave up the luxury market (except Cadillac).


84 posted on 07/27/2012 5:20:50 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: truth_seeker

Nascar isn’t technology.
It’s entertainment.
(Very profitable entertainment)

Mild steel is good stuff. It’s readily welded and performs consistently in crashes.

God gave us mild steel and cast iron to make vehicles for the masses.


85 posted on 07/27/2012 5:26:39 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: nascarnation
No problem! You can get your new truck financed for ten or fifteen years soon.
86 posted on 07/27/2012 5:31:08 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: DannyTN
What do you think is in aircraft.

The rear spar in the wing that the landing gear is attached to is aluminum.

Aircraft aluminum is very tough, but expensive.

But, I agree with a previous poster in that the weight loss will be a hamper to traction.

Maybe they can provide in the design attach points under the frame to add weight after you buy the truck.

Probably won't fly with the Fed's.

87 posted on 07/27/2012 5:34:05 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: Puckster
Maybe they can provide in the design attach points under the frame to add weight after you buy the truck.

Just cruise down to the local EBT/TANF/Social Sec office and pick up a few fat girls. Problem solved. And on sunny days they can be offloaded to improve fuel economy.

88 posted on 07/27/2012 5:36:59 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: UCANSEE2

I have vaporized a few pistons in my lifetime. 2 strokes and exoctic fuel mixes will do amazing things when things go wrong.

LLS


89 posted on 07/27/2012 5:41:46 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: LibLieSlayer

Well they run better and better as you lean them out, right up to the point where the piston crown becomes part of the combustion process.

With our modern computer controls technology we could achieve some incredible mpgs if we didn’t have to run at 14.7:1 to make the damn converter work.


90 posted on 07/27/2012 5:44:58 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Responsibility2nd
A buddy of mine was T-boned by a ditz at 50 mph a couple weeks ago. Flipped the truck -- totaled it. He walked away, she didn't.

Wonder how the lighter body would have changed the outcome.

91 posted on 07/27/2012 5:45:06 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: nascarnation

“a few fat girls”

Or, or....let’s put the lead back into the fuel...huh, huh!?


92 posted on 07/27/2012 5:46:49 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: Squantos

Sky King was the best! Penny was pretty hot too!

LLS


93 posted on 07/27/2012 5:50:20 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: LibLieSlayer

Loved that show....:

Stay safe !


94 posted on 07/27/2012 5:55:05 PM PDT by Squantos
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To: nascarnation
That is the truth. I had a V6 outboard (gas not alcohol) on a 19 foot carbon fiber STV Mod VP tunnel that would run 9.80’s to 10.0 in the 1/4. You break a lot of $$$ to win. The faster you go... the more it costs to go faster.

LLS

95 posted on 07/27/2012 5:56:28 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: Squantos

You too.

LLS


96 posted on 07/27/2012 5:58:23 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: LibLieSlayer

You mean sky king was really the airplane. I thought he was the pilot.


97 posted on 07/27/2012 5:59:25 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: LibLieSlayer

That’s plenty fast on pavement, and downright terrifying on water.


98 posted on 07/27/2012 6:00:39 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Responsibility2nd

As someone who works in the aluminum idustry, it has a lot of merit and some drawbacks. Aluminum is a lot tougher than most realize. Accura made an all aluminum car for years. It was expensive and not a big seller, don’t know how it fared in wrecks and such. The one big drawback to aluminum skin is that it doesn’t stretch like steel and tends to break rather than bend. A lot would depend on the alloy. There are steering and suspension components already in suv’s and such from cast aluminum that have done quite well and most owners never know it (Dodge Durango, Chevy Trailblazer to name two). It’s between plastic and aluminum for cutting down weight on vehicles, but it’s going to happen


99 posted on 07/27/2012 6:03:50 PM PDT by Figment
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To: Puckster
What do you think is in aircraft.

Clearly, aircraft generally consist of lots of Aluminum. And, there is good reason that airports never, to my knowledge, use salt on winter runways. Indeed, I will never forget renting a ratty cessna many years ago in Honolulu. When I asked the instructor what the deal was, and how old my rental was, I was surprised when told only 2 years old. That salt air is deadly to Aluminum!

100 posted on 07/27/2012 6:04:36 PM PDT by C210N ("ask not what the candidate can do for you, ask what you can do for the candidate" (Breitbart, 2012))
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