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America Needs No More Neo-Imperial Nonsense
The Financial Times ^ | Jul 23 2012 | Patrick J. Buchanan

Posted on 07/27/2012 4:35:18 PM PDT by dragnet2

Edited on 07/27/2012 11:59:19 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Triumphant in the first Gulf war, George H.W. Bush, in October 1991, went before the UN to declare that the US’s goal was now to build a “New World Order”.


(Excerpt) Read more at search.ft.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 911truther; 911truthers; apaulling; apaulogia; apaulogist; charliesheen; collaborator; paulbearers; paulestinians; paulistinians; pitchforkpat; quisling; ronpaul
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The frontier that will determine the fate of the US is not the 38th parallel, but the 2,000-mile border with Mexico.
1 posted on 07/27/2012 4:35:21 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: All


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2 posted on 07/27/2012 4:37:25 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: dragnet2
I agree with this almost entirely - except that I see Israel flourishing as very much in the US's interests.

Especially today with resurgent militant Islam.

3 posted on 07/27/2012 4:48:40 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: skeeter
Especially today with resurgent militant Islam.

It was under W. Bush, *after* 911, more people from Muslim countries became legal permanent United States residents than in any year in the previous two decades.

4 posted on 07/27/2012 4:52:17 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2
Somebody forgot that Afghan with their AlQaida ally ATTACKED US.

Where do they find these idiots?

5 posted on 07/27/2012 5:10:30 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Well, then stay in Afghanistan for another 10 years.

But ya better build some nuclear powered printing presses for the trillions more dollars you'll need, as the old presses are on fire, smoking and burning through the floors.

Great stategery ya got there.

6 posted on 07/27/2012 5:15:58 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

I am a paleo-conservative.

I don’t understand this neo-conservative need to force other people to live by American values.

American values are for Americans, because this is our culture and heritage.

Many people have absolutely no desire to be politically and economically free. Many Americans on the left have no desire to be politically and economically free.

And many immigrants come to the United States and go right onto becoming dependent on the welfare stare and have no respect for the rule of law.

It is hard enough for conservatives to keep the United States politically and economically free, so I don’t see how expending billions of dollars on foreigners who hate us will do us any good.


7 posted on 07/27/2012 5:15:58 PM PDT by radpolis (Liberals: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy)
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To: radpolis
It is hard enough for conservatives to keep the United States politically and economically free, so I don’t see how expending billions of dollars on foreigners who hate us will do us any good.

Ya mean multiple trillions...

Excellent point.

Of course while our own border has become an epic violent war zone, as many millions flood in unabated, compromising and undermining every American system in existence, I guess were supposed to continue business as usual, until our national treasure is reduced to that of Uganda, while being in debt to the Red Chinese for the next 20 generations.

8 posted on 07/27/2012 5:28:09 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2
You dont know what my strategy is ~ I haven't told you. But the writer is blaming DOD expenditures on military misadventure ~ and NOT on the real cause ~ the failure of will on the part of Bush and the Democrats to follow up quick victory with harsh occupation and extraction of compensatory resources.

You do that, then you pull out, and the same thing isn't going to happen the next time.

9 posted on 07/27/2012 5:30:16 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: dragnet2

How I’ve changed over the years. Today I believe that the U.S. forces must leave every country. What was once a good idea has become a means of paying tribute to nations all over the Earth. And that includes Foreign Aid.

Also in the case of the Middle East, especially Saudi Arabia the U.S. has become very similar to mercenaries. Only instead of paying our troops directly they do it by keeping petroleum prices low.


10 posted on 07/27/2012 5:31:03 PM PDT by The Working Man
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To: muawiyah
Somebody forgot that Afghan with their AlQaida ally ATTACKED US. Where do they find these idiots?

Well, then stay in Afghanistan for another 10 years.

But ya better build some nuclear powered printing presses for the trillions more dollars you'll need, as the old presses are on fire, smoking and burning through the floors.

Great stategery ya got there.

You dont know what my strategy is

real cause ~ the failure of will on the part of Bush and the Democrats to follow up quick victory

Didn't happen that way...Ya can't put the bullet back.

Of course this was never the strategery to begin with was it mawiawa?

11 posted on 07/27/2012 5:40:00 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

So, Dragnet2, what was your strategy ~ those people dropped an airplane on a building within ten miles of where i’m sitting ~ we are supposed to just sit there and take it or something? Hey, half of us are angry as heck you people in CA aren’t out doing militia work to convince the invaders to go back home.


12 posted on 07/27/2012 5:47:40 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: The Working Man

You are supposed to COLLECT tribute, not pay it. There’s no reason to not charge the Saudis and others for services rendered.


13 posted on 07/27/2012 5:49:31 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: dragnet2

The empire builders take American security at home for granted. But “projecting power” means nothing if the homeland is lost. They talk about “keeping commitments”endlessly, but never seem too concerned about the only commitment that matters-keeping American citizens safe and free of invasion-whatever the source.


14 posted on 07/27/2012 5:52:09 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: dragnet2
Pat has several drums he likes to to beat, and this is perhaps his favorite. In reality, the US gets far more in the way of benefits from its "imperial obligations" than what we pay to sustain them.

Our currency, goods, services, culture, and political system are admired, copied, and in demand throughout the world -- with the exceptions being places so miserable that people flee from them. Our security perimeter is not our sea coasts and borders but foreign seas and lands thousands of miles away.

For all of Pat's tub thumping, many if not most of the country's founders would be astonished and proud that the country and system they created had achieved such a place in the world. And they would wonder why anyone would think it a bad thing.

15 posted on 07/27/2012 6:02:50 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
you might have missed it but you don't hear much talk about keeping commitments from the obama regime. they are much more concerned with gay marriage, gays in the military, and what's happening to their 'dream team' people.

the obamistas have no interest whatsoever in what's good for America.

16 posted on 07/27/2012 6:04:15 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Rockingham
The Founders would likely wonder why Canada ~ we could have that, and Siberia ~ we could have had that too.

So, why didn't we?

17 posted on 07/27/2012 6:07:24 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Rockingham
In reality, the US gets far more in the way of benefits from its "imperial obligations" than what we pay to sustain them.

Oh sure, looking at the burned out economic landscape, owing trillions to the Communist Chinese, millions out of work....Boy, it sure worked out well!

In fact, we should of hung out in Baghdad for another 20 years. Ya boy!

Another graduate from the Tokyo Rose school of propaganda?

18 posted on 07/27/2012 6:10:14 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: muawiyah

Every time I get frustrated with Romney, I think of “gay marriage” and gays in the military. I think I’d vote for Karl Marx rather than that.


19 posted on 07/27/2012 6:11:21 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
Romney is in favor of gay marriage. He wants even more gays in the military.

A vote for Romney or Obama is a vote for the gay agenda.

20 posted on 07/27/2012 6:13:45 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: dragnet2
No calls to reduce immigration or even Muslim immigration?
No threat of retaliation against countries or groups that attack us?
No notice that Iran, a place where "Death to America" is all but a national motto, is developing nukes and ICBMs.

Buchanan still refuses to face reality, just like the neoconservatives who refused to understand what the Muslim Brotherhood is. There is another solution predicated on the understanding that this is a clash of civilizations, Seperationism and Roll Back.
21 posted on 07/27/2012 6:31:48 PM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: muawiyah

M, you’ve heard of Pat Buchanan I’m sure — Pitchfork Pat is well known as an apologist for and coddler of enemies of the United States.


22 posted on 07/27/2012 7:30:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Leave Pat alone.

He’s got his quirks, but he’s as good a conservative as most.

Lay off.


23 posted on 07/27/2012 7:32:59 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (America doesn't need any new laws. America needs freedom!)
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To: SunkenCiv

Pat actually has a Bismarckian program in mind ~ which is why I avoid using his name.


24 posted on 07/27/2012 7:36:39 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Tell Pat to 'lay off'.


25 posted on 07/27/2012 7:39:08 PM PDT by rdb3 (We need Ward Cleaver for President. We already have Eddie Haskell. (ATB))
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To: SunkenCiv
M, you’ve heard of Pat Buchanan I’m sure — Pitchfork Pat is well known as an apologist for and coddler of enemies of the United States.

Whether you like Pat or not, that is a disingenuous and inaccurate characterization.

26 posted on 07/27/2012 7:43:18 PM PDT by sargon (I don't like the sound of these "boncentration bamps")
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To: dragnet2
We will end the Empire soon. The only question is if we do it willingly before we run out of money to bring them home, or if we abandon them. There is no money. We will run out of credit one of these days.
27 posted on 07/27/2012 8:37:08 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: muawiyah

Our last try at the formal conquest of Canada was in the War of 1812 — and it failed. Not to fret though. In economic and strategic terms, Canada today is virtually a component of the US.


28 posted on 07/27/2012 8:58:13 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: dragnet2

Our public finances are out of kilter because of domestic spending, especially the implicit future spending necessary to fund Medicare. In comparison, our military spending is a minor cost, with substantial offsetting benefits in return.


29 posted on 07/27/2012 9:06:24 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham

Oh yeah, right.


30 posted on 07/27/2012 9:10:11 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Rockingham

BTW, no hard feelings, I actually respect your opinion. Well, somewhat....lol


31 posted on 07/27/2012 10:28:07 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: rmlew

No one has been more vocal in calling for large reductions in immigration than Pat Buchanan.


32 posted on 07/27/2012 10:47:00 PM PDT by Aetius
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To: SunkenCiv

Buchanan is a true conservative. No one has been better on immigration, and he will actually speak out against racial preferences. When was the last time any prominent Republican did that?


33 posted on 07/27/2012 10:54:03 PM PDT by Aetius
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To: dragnet2

This is well-trod ground for me. I have a cousin who has views similar to yours.


34 posted on 07/28/2012 12:26:04 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: All

Buchannon got what percent of the vote?

NEXT

Oh, and his article is dense with inaccuracies and error. Too many to attempt an accounting.


35 posted on 07/28/2012 12:43:21 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Conservative Economic and National Security Commentary: econus.blogspot.com)
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To: sargon
Whether you like Pat or not, that is a disingenuous and inaccurate characterization.

I'll take a stab at revising it:

Pitchfork Pat is well known as an apologist for and coddler of enemies of the Joos.

36 posted on 07/28/2012 1:18:33 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: dragnet2
Posted by another graduate from the Tokyo Rose school of propaganda:....."the US gets far more in the way of benefits from its 'neo-imperial obligations' than what we pay to sustain them..."

A BRILLIANT RESPONSE Oh sure, looking at the burned out US economic landscape, owing trillions to the Communist Chinese, millions of Americans out of work.......the neo policies sure worked out well! In fact, we should of hung out in Baghdad for another 20 years.......

Amen, D2---the agit-prop from the Mideast amen corner is preposterous.

America needs to disentangle itself from the neocon stranglehold----we dont need a foreign policy rooted in yesterday’s dollar-draining dreams of global democracy.....and other cockamamie policies fomented by the pukeneos.

==================================================

REFERENCE Your tax dollars at work, thanks to the pukeneos.

(1) The US stupidly gave Pakistan billions in the wake of 911----the country that was openly harboring Bin Laden. Despite all its advanced technology, Israel "did not know" Bin Laden was in their neighborhood? And isn't it nice that a tiny country like Israel--- surrounded by enemies---has zillions of dollars to conduct these costly activities--- as US citizens struggle to survive?

(2) TURKEY received $21 billion economic/military US foreign aid....thanks to neocons. The US Dept of state ----duped by neocons----reported Dec 2011 that as part of their stupid cooperative effort to further Turkish economic and military self-reliance, the United States stupidly loaned and granted Turkey more than $7 billion in economic aid and more than $14 billion in military assistance over several years......So much for "peace"....Turkey is now getting ready to acquire nuclear weapons. Despite all its advanced technology, Israel did not know this?

(3) Neocons duped the US into pouring trillions into Afghanistan.....the most corrupt area on the globe. The Bank of Kabul is engaged in massive fraud---the bank where the US deposits billions of US tax dollars to run the war----if you are "connected" you can withdraw billions with no responsibility to pay it back. Afghan Pres Karzhai was seen loading billions of US dollars to transport out of the country .

SUMMATION US citizens are being extorted at the pump as the US leaves Iraq with no promise of oil (having spent trillions of US dollars there, leaving rivers of young US blood). Yet, according to the WSJ, conniving neocons are starting their own oil company in Iraq. The cost is immense----facilitated by n/c Richard Perle's war profiteering. Your tax dollars at work.

NOTE There is nothing in the US Constitution that says US citizens should go broke while foreign loyalists and their countries get rich on our tax dollars.

===============================================

Here are the various Mideast American policy failures the pukeneos inveigled the US into over the last few decades.

<><> Military assistance or punitive intervention without follow-up mostly failed.

<><>The verdict on far more costly trillion dollar nation-building is still out.

<><>Trying to help popular insurgents topple unpopular dictators does not guarantee anything better.

<><> Propping up dictators with military aid is both odious and counterproductive.

<><>Sinking the pukeneo fangs into US foreign policy---posing as our "best friend"---leads manaical regimes to nuclear acquisition and 16 acres of Manhattan rubble.

IN A NUTSHELL The stupid pukeneo policy----financed by US taxpayers' ----and rivers of young soldiers' blood.

37 posted on 07/28/2012 4:44:29 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz

“Sinking the pukeneo fangs into US foreign policy-—posing as our “best friend”-—leads manaical regimes to nuclear acquisition and 16 acres of Manhattan rubble. “

LOL, your reference to Israel is obvious and you conflate Neo with Israel. Interesting and sad.

You are also “blaming America first” by wrongly assuming the Muzzies hit us because of our policies. The Muzzies hit us because they hate us.

Truther, OWS BS.


38 posted on 07/28/2012 8:59:31 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Conservative Economic and National Security Commentary: econus.blogspot.com)
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To: Liz; Rockingham
Amen, D2---the agit-prop from the Mideast amen corner is preposterous.

I guess there are still a few out here selling their global economy bull chet....Off shore tens of hundreds of thousands of American jobs while flooding the country with tens of millions of low wage illegal aliens?

Violent chaotic borders, economy on fire, country in decline, millions out of work, trillions owed to Communist China, and this guy tells us the new world order economy has been a big benefit to Americans?

39 posted on 07/28/2012 9:24:26 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Liz
America needs to disentangle itself from the neocon stranglehold----we dont need a foreign policy rooted in yesterday’s dollar-draining dreams of global democracy.....and other cockamamie policies fomented by the pukeneos.

Absolutely!

40 posted on 07/28/2012 9:27:47 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Rockingham
Who you kidding? We've spent multiple *trillions* wasted in foreign adventures, while trying to influence or bribe every other country on this planet.

Our foreign policies are as bad as our domestic policies or worse.

Get real.

41 posted on 07/28/2012 9:40:53 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

We do not have to have open borders and uncontrolled immigration because we have a large military and global alliances and obligations. Our immigration problems are due to an alliance between two groups: big business interests reliant on cheap labor, and a Democratic party determined to dilute America’s identity and to import a large bloc of captive voters.


42 posted on 07/28/2012 9:45:12 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: 1rudeboy
Pitchfork Pat is well known as an apologist for and coddler of enemies of the Joos.

A little better.

There are, however, those who are interested in things like, say, national sovereignty, who believe that it was probably both unwise and illegal for the fledgling United Nations to attempt to justify its new-found power by imposing a nation out of thin air in 1948. As a capitulation to Jewish terrorism, I might add.

There are probably many Americans who would similarly oppose the arbitrary declaration, by an international governing body, of an ethnic nation within our own borders.

The fact that other colonial powers had screwed up the region prior to the United Nations exercising its new sovereignty does not particularly mitigate the event for me.

My personal opinion is "it's been done and the world has to deal with the situation", but I, for one, don't think the UN ever had any right to do such a thing.

IMHO, those who do acquiesce to the exercise of such power by the UN are somewhat less concerned about national sovereignty than they claim.

I guess to some the UN only sucks when it tries to do something they disagree with. I happen to hold the opinion that the UN sucks, period.

43 posted on 07/28/2012 11:09:24 AM PDT by sargon (I don't like the sound of these "boncentration bamps")
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To: muawiyah

“The Founders would likely wonder why Canada ~ we could have that...”

We’ve invaded Canada twice in our history, both times when the founder’s generation was in charge - and lost. 3 times, I suppose, if you count the 7 Years War.

The founders were not the isolationists as many present. They had to live in the real world just as we do today. They understood very well that security doesn’t end at the shoreline. Even President Washington, despite his later exortations to the contrary, was forced to actively entangle himself in European affairs. One of the first things the Congress bought were naval ships.

We have always been a trading country. That requires a navy and networks of supply stations - i.e. foreign entanglements. What do you think President Jefferson was doing in North Africa?

You asked on another post what the strategy should have been in Afghanistan. Great question. There was a golden moment when the Taliban were toppled and the American footprint was relatively small. At that point, President Bush should have picked the meanest son-of-a-bitch dictator to be our meanest son-of-a-bitch dictator and we could have mostly left. The CIA used to be very good at this sort of thing.

President Bush really erred by not taking this approach, in my opinion. Anyway, read more history books, FRiend!


44 posted on 07/28/2012 11:20:33 AM PDT by Owl558 ("Those who remember George Satayana are doomed to repeat him")
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To: Rockingham
You got an excuse for everything.

You deny we shipped tens of hundreds of thousands of jobs to Commie China....You deny we now owe trillions to Commie China...You deny our economic landscape is fully engulfed in flames, you deny millions of Americans who had good jobs are not unemployed, millions flooding in across our borders, compromising everything American....

Did ya notice most all this occurred after Bush gave his new world order speech a couple decades ago, while people like you suggested this new global economy will be good for America?

Maybe we should invade some more countries huh? Ya gunna build those nuclear powered printing presses for the trillions more dollars you'll need? The old presses burned through the floors...Ya didn't notice?

Look around buddy, none of this was good for America....None if it! Zip!

45 posted on 07/28/2012 11:33:08 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Owl558
President Bush should have picked the meanest son-of-a-bitch dictator to be our meanest son-of-a-bitch dictator and we could have mostly left. The CIA used to be very good at this sort of thing.

That was never the plan Mr. Owl.

The plan was to go in and spend decades, and multiple trillions in U.S. tax dollars.

46 posted on 07/28/2012 11:39:39 AM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: muawiyah
"You are supposed to COLLECT tribute, not pay it."

And what do you think would happen if the Saudis decided not to accept payment (for oil) in dollars? Sadly the Saudis have us by the short hairs. They say "Jump" and we say "How High?". 16 trillion in debt. The only reason the dollar has any value is because the Saudis accept it as payment for oil. The day the Saudis no longer accept dollars is the day our economy totally collapses.

47 posted on 07/28/2012 11:56:55 AM PDT by jpsb
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To: jpsb
The Saudis reinvest the money. Of course they accept payment in dollars. We have them by the short hairs.

And actually, we don't need them although most of the world would think we were quite impolite if we did it ~ we have all the power we need to coerce them to do anything we want.

BTW we are not their big customer ~ we have other sources for our own oil.

48 posted on 07/28/2012 12:13:51 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: rbmillerjr; dragnet2

LOL-—golly, I sure am glad I posted to this thread.

When you report this (cough) “outrage” to the PTB, you’ll get a generous reward.

Don’t forget to thank me-————ROTFL.


49 posted on 07/28/2012 12:39:32 PM PDT by Liz
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To: dragnet2
(Snicker) Mmmmm.....the suspense is palpable---waiting for Mitt Romney to announce he's for allout US bombing of Iraq...and sending thousands of US troops into a country of the pukeneos choosing.

The pukes'll squeeze hard before they'll endorse him.

Watch Mitty squeal.

==========================================

Looks likethe pukes are not on board....yet.....ROTFL

REFERENCE Bill Kristol: Romney camp has reason to ‘worry’

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/236613-bill-kristol-romney-camp-has-reason-to-worry /FR Posted by chessplayer

Political analyst Bill Kristol on Sunday added to conservative criticism of Mitt Romney's campaign, saying it was a troubling sign that Obama was still ahead in the polls despite a still weak economy.

"I think the Fox News poll actually has the key to what the problem is for the Mitt Romney campaign. Do you think Barack Obama has a clear plan for improving the economy or not? Yes, 41; no 53. It's not great for an incumbent president. The economy is slow. And you are only at 41-53," said Kristol.

"Do you think his challenger, Gov. Romney, has a clear plan for improving the economy or not? Yes, 27; No, 55," he continued. "I don't think you can beat an incumbent president, even if the economy is slow, if 27 percent of the voters think you as the challenger don't have a clear plan for improving the economy," Kristol said. (Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com

50 posted on 07/28/2012 12:51:14 PM PDT by Liz
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