Skip to comments.Chaplain quits So. Baptists over same-sex rite
Posted on 07/28/2012 6:28:26 AM PDT by madprof98
NEW YORK A long-serving Air Force chaplain has left the Southern Baptist Convention after the conservative denomination publicly questioned his attendance at a same-sex civil union ceremony at his base in New Jersey.
The chaplain, Col. Timothy Wagoner, is remaining on active duty and has affiliated with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, which holds more moderate views on homosexuality and some other issues than the Southern Baptists.
"I find very little that is more important and nothing that is more exhilarating than providing for the religious freedoms and spiritual care of all service members and their families and will joyfully continue to do so," Wagoner said Friday in an e-mail to The Associated Press.
Wagoner the senior chaplain at Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst had made clear he would not officiate at such ceremonies, which the Southern Baptists do not condone.
However, Wagoner had told The AP in an interview a few days after the ceremony that he decided to attend as a show of support for the base community, for Umali, and for the Evangelical Lutheran chaplain, Col. Kay Reeb, who presided over it.
"I wouldn't miss it," Wagoner said, describing the ceremony as beautiful.
Professor David Key, director of Baptist Studies at Emory University's Candler School of Theology, predicted that Wagoner's departure from the Southern Baptists might be the first of many as their chaplains try to reconcile conflicting loyalties.
"The SBC has been defined by its anti-gay stance," Key said. "They now find themselves not just out of synch with growing segments of society but also out of synch with the U.S. military." . . . "Showing affirmation for gay and lesbian soldiers is what the military wants, and exactly what the SBC doesn't want. At the moment, it's irreconcilable."
(Excerpt) Read more at ajc.com ...
I suppose that being a man of God is secondary to society now? No one says that you don’t like homosexuals or need to tie them to the stake to be burned. It’s not about that.
The problem is that gay marriage is condoning sin and entirely against the definition of Bible that JESUS states.
Love the sinner, hate the sin. Don’t condone and foster it.
So a woman is officiating at the ceremony and a male is the “bride”? And this is biblical how?
Agreed. I simply do not understand the mentality of theologically liberal “Baptists”:this “chaplain” is ok with anal sex but thinks baptizing babies is a ain?
Good for the Southern Baptists for holding the line and actually expecting their members to follow doctrine. If more churches would do this we would be a lot better off.
"Moderate" describes the normal maintenance of historic traditional cultural norms. The farther one deviates from those norms the less moderate one is. Moderate is thus not any sort of compromise between the normal and differing position. Normal is the center. Normal is moderate. Less moderate to one side is the line that begins with acceptance of open homosexuality and moves through homosexual "marriage" all the way to rule by or for the primary benefit of homosexuals(not terribly farfetched-look at Massachusetts and maybe California). Immoderation to the other side would be penalization of discovered homosexuals out to incarceration and execution.
The left/press uses the word "moderate" to mean what the rest of us think of as "extreme." To them "moderate" means agreeing with and promotion of the most radical position.
Indeed. I used to be Southern Baptist and thought I was “moderate” until I learned how liberal those so-called “moderates” were. It’s past time for them to be “out-and-proud” about the fact they’re neither moderate nor conservative but liberal. Then again, they might reduce their income from the blue hairs in the congregation if they said that so they continue to lie about their liberalism
I find it more than a bit sad that this paragraph, uttered by someone who claims to be a learned person at an institute of theology, does not contain the word "God".
Since marriage is ordained by God, not by man, God's opinion is the ONLY one that matters, and His opinion has been made crystal clear through his perfect Word.
I think this chaplain has made very clear what god he worships and it’s not the one revealed in sacred Scripture.
A photo full of FAIL in every aspect...words can’t begin to express how non-Biblical that is. How people can see that and then scorn Dan Cathey of Chik-fil-A just astounds me.
In the Hebrew, abomination translates to abomination
In the Greek, abomination translates to abomination
What word would be stronger than abomination?
God thinks that their perverted, disgusting, sexual practices (which defines them, by the way) are an ABOMINATION. How could ANY Christian think that homosexuality (remember their “sex acts” define them) is to be tolerated in any Christian church?
The answer is “they can't”. So this chaplain and any others who believe homosexuality is okay, is NOT a Christian.
Is this me pronouncing judgment on them? No. It is God's Holy Word. If you can excuse this practice then you could exclude adultery and murder. A sin is a sin is a sin. No “big” sins and “little” sins or “maybe” sins.
God's word is CLEAR in the old and new testaments and in many different verses throughout the bible, homosexual sex acts are an ABOMINATION to the Lord. They are SINS. They will send you straight to hell for eternity, if you don't repent, change your ways and accept Jesus Christ.
Tough love, you betcha! I hate the sin and love the sinner. I want all gays to repent of their wicked ways and come to Christ.
I know that WIDE is the gate and BROAD is the road that leads to DESTRUCTION (eternal life in hell, separated from God), and many enter through it. But SMALL is the gate and NARROW the road that leads to LIFE (eternal life in heaven, WITH God), and only a FEW find it.
(NIV) Mathew 7: 13 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
This photo is an ABOMINATION
No doubt the Chaplain would also find the freeing of a young woman from the burdens of an unwanted pregnancy, similarly uplifting....
How ironic are his words, as he is “out of synch” with God and His Word...
Colonels make pretty good pay. He chose mammon over God.
Colonels make pretty good pay. He chose mammon over God.
“The SBC has been defined by its anti-gay stance,” Key said. “They now find themselves not just out of synch with growing segments of society but also out of synch with the U.S. military.” . . . “Showing affirmation for gay and lesbian soldiers is what the military wants, and exactly what the SBC doesn’t want. At the moment, it’s irreconcilable.”
As a member of a church in the SBC, let me say this:
Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? And then will I declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.
-— Jesus Christ
I liked this:
“It quoted Kevin Ezell, president of the SBC’s North American Mission Board, as saying, “When it comes to what our chaplains believe and practice, we do ask and we do expect them to tell.”
“We only want to endorse chaplains who can support Baptist doctrine and belief without reservation,” Ezell said. “If an SBC chaplain concludes he cannot conduct his ministry in harmony with SBC beliefs and doctrine, then it is best to part ways.”
That moves me to puke.
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Bingo! After all, he's a Jimmy Carter Baptist.
They sure are, aren't they.
Too bad he still thinks he is a Christian and competent to lead from the pulpit. Having rejected Scripture concerning
“marriage” and “Sodomy” I see no reason to consider him a follower of Jesus Christ.
Bye......don’t let the door, or anything else, hit you in the ass on the way out.
He should have been fired by the S. Baptists; his endorsement should have been pulled.
He violated his very reason for being in the military as a southern baptist chaplain....to be a fully representative ordained minister of that denomination.
The S. Baptists should NOT have permitted him to reaffiliate, and the AF would have had to violate regulation to keep him on active duty with a denominational change...which is so transparently insincere, by the way.
How long do you think God will continue to be mocked? We’re seeing the early ramifications now, if we learn to take the blinders off.
This raises a question. Now that the Anglicans (Anglican Church in North America) are separate from the Episcopalians, I wonder if any of the US military chaplains are now officially Anglican?
It creates an interesting situation, in that to break off from the Episcopal church, many individual churches became “Missionary churches” to African Anglican provinces.
His endorsement was pulled. A liberal group then gave him an endorsement. He is no longer an SBC chaplain.
Actually, it looks like he quit to avoid having his endorsement pulled. The SBC made it clear he couldn’t remain as an SBC chaplain.
New rules in the system as I left stated that such a plan was not permitted. Granted, I was in the Army, but I think it was DOD and not just DA.
They said that one could not have an endorsement pulled and remain on active duty, grab an endorsement-of-convenience, and go on in a seamless career.
The ONLY way for that to happen was for the losing denomination to accept the transfer. In other words, if they were yanking your endorsement for cause, then it was a demonstration of bad faith on the part of the military to undercut that denomination’s decision about their standards for their chaplains.
Therefore, they insisted that any seamless continuation on active duty could only be with the acceptance of the losing denomination. After all, that chaplain went to bird colonel as a southern baptist, and had represented himself as such, and that denomination had invested a great deal in him when it could have been advocating others who were more in keeping with their views.
The job of a chaplain is to be that denomination’s representative. There is no such thing as a government religion.
This could be out of date, but anything in the military can be waived by someone, and I’m sure Obama himself would authorize it to show his support for gays, if needed:
26 AR 1651 3 December 2009
89. Loss/change of ecclesiastical endorsement
a. All Chaplains are required to have on file with OCCH an Ecclesiastical Endorsement (DD Form 2088) submitted
for them by an AFCB Listed Endorsing Agent. If an Endorsing Agent withdraws a Chaplains ecclesiastical endorse-ment, then the officer must immediately cease from all religious activities, that is, performance of rites, ceremonies,
services, pastoral counseling, and so forth. Under no circumstances will the Chaplain perform any Chaplain functions without a valid ecclesiastical endorsement.
b. A withdrawal of ecclesiastical endorsement is official when a Chaplains Endorsing Agent notifies the CCH of
the loss of endorsement in writing. In accordance with DODI 1304.28 and AR 600824, the CCH will then notify the
Chaplain of the loss of endorsement and offer the following 4 options:
(1) Seek a new ecclesiastical endorsement from an AFCB Listed Endorsing Agent. If another ecclesiastical endorse-ment is not obtained, the Chaplain will undergo involuntary separation in accordance with AR 600824 or AR
(2) Submit a voluntary retirement request, if eligible.
(3) Submit an unqualified resignation request. If the Chaplain has not fulfilled their MSO, then the request is
forwarded to the ASA(M&RA) for waiver approval.
(4) Request a branch transfer. If a Chaplain is granted an appointment in another branch, the officer will not wear
the Chaplain branch insignia or be assigned to a Chaplain position.
c. Chaplains seeking a change in ecclesiastical endorsement must submit a request to OCCH, DACH1 and coordinate the action with both current and prospective Endorsing Agents to avoid a loss of endorsement. As the approving authority, the CCH may convene a special advisory board to review the circumstances surrounding a Chaplains request for a change in ecclesiastical endorsement.
Thanks, Mr Rogers, the bold and underlined section above is the part to which I made reference.
The losing endorser CAN block it. It must be coordinated.
Given that, my suspicion is that the SBC acquiesced, so it's on them. That Colonel had more than enough time to retire handsomely AND enable the SBC to demonstrate that it stood behind its principles.
The loss of an endorsement does not mean the Chaplain is forced out. If it is lost, then he can perform no religious service until someone else provides him with an endorsement:
“In accordance with DODI 1304.28 and AR 600824, the CCH will then notify the Chaplain of the loss of endorsement and offer the following 4 options:
(1) Seek a new ecclesiastical endorsement from an AFCB Listed Endorsing Agent...”
Cooperation of the losing endorser seems to be required only to prevent a break in religious duty - as I read it.
In any case, I have no doubt the modern military could and would have gotten a waiver from whatever level required - including the President - if needed to prevent a brave, loving chaplain from being punished by the evil homophobic slave-loving woman-oppressing SBC...
The America I loved and served no longer exists. It gives waivers to allow homosexuals to march IN UNIFORM in gay parades. And lets be real - Romney will NOT change this. He fully supports gay activists, even tho as a Mormon he ought to be repulsed by them.
I think God is making manifest what lies in the heart of America, and then He will judge us for it - unless we repent. But far too many congregations and denominations never use the word repent any more. I see no sign that America is willing to repent, or even understands the concept.
And without repentance, there is only judgment to look forward to...
Historical FYI only...
As I read it, those are 4 sub-paragraphs under b. Paragraph c is unique and any of the 4 sub-paragraphs pursued must be reconciled with paragraph c.
IOW, there is no seeking alternate endorsement that hasn’t first satisfied paragraph c.
The exception to that is (4) which is the branch transfer. However, the chaplain must qualify for a branch transfer. And, to go from Chaplain to infantry or Chaplain to psychologist must itself receive the acceptance of the gaining branch. They would not accept a branch transfer of anyone who was not qualified for their branch. And in most cases, they would be far less likely to accept a bird colonel, even if there were qualification, for he would supplant someone and move immediately into a high leadership level within that branch.
How do you envision God's judgment of Christians?
“How do you envision God’s judgment of Christians?”
The same as the prophets in Israel who suffered when Israel was invaded.
“Some returned to their womenfolk from certain death, while others were tortured and refused to be ransomed, because they wanted to deserve a more honourable resurrection in the world to come. Others were exposed to the test of public mockery and flogging, and to the torture of being left bound in prison. They were killed by stoning, by being sawn in two; they were tempted by specious promises of release and then were killed with the sword. Many became refugees with nothing but sheepskins or goatskins to cover them. They lost everything and yet were spurned and ill-treated by a world that was too evil to see their worth. They lived as vagrants in the desert, on the mountains, or in caves or holes in the ground.
39-40 All these won a glowing testimony to their faith, but they did not then and there receive the fulfilment of the promise. God had something better planned for our day, and it was not his plan that they should reach perfection without us.”
I expect persecution of Christians to come first. Try refusing to rent a basement apartment to gays, or refusing to bake them a wedding cake, and see who the law & government support. Given the changes in the military since I entered in 83, I fully expect pressure to be put on Christian chaplains to accept homosexuality. I fully expect a Christian Sq/CC to face punishment for discriminating against a faggot when he was really ‘discriminating’ against poor job performance.
And in time, God will judge the nation. Those Christians alive in that day will suffer in this life, but find their reward in the next.
Paragraph B discusses losing an endorsement. Paragraph C discusses seeking a change in endorsement.
Under paragraph B:
“the CCH will then notify the Chaplain of the loss of endorsement and offer the following 4 options:
(1) Seek a new ecclesiastical endorsement from an AFCB Listed Endorsing Agent. If another ecclesiastical endorse-ment is not obtained, the Chaplain will undergo involuntary separation in accordance with AR 600824 or AR 135175...”
You can say that again! :-)
This is what happens when you don't have a magesterium and you follow Sola Scriptura
S N I C K E R ..... obviously a magesterium and ignorance of THE Sola Scriputra at work here.
I do not follow mammon and their traditions. See now I have a brain and it is through that despised by some Sola Scripture that I can with confidence know the Chaplain has turned his back upon the Creator. Oh and I have no affiliation with Southern Baptists, but can agree with them when they are 'right'. Just as I can agree with any of the other multitude of Christian divisions when they allow the Sola Scripture stand without having to whitewash it into their traditions. Man sure needs to have his fingerprints all over the simplicity of the WORD... which according to John 1:1 is God.
“Show of hands, Any Catholics NOT surprised by this. / This is what happens when you don’t have a magesterium and you follow Sola Scriptura”
What part of his LEAVING the SBC did you miss? He quit before the SBC could throw him out.
Maybe you guys ought to do the same to some of your heretical nuns who enjoy giving your Pope the middle finger salute.
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