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Going Postal, Pre-Pistol How did mass murderers operate before the advent of modern weapons?
slate.com ^ | 26 July, 2012 | Brian Palmer

Posted on 07/28/2012 2:49:36 PM PDT by marktwain

The shooting spree that killed 12 people in an Aurora, Colo., movie theater on Friday has sparked a public debate about the availability of automatic weapons. Gun control advocates argue that mass murder is exceedingly difficult without them. One source told the Washington Post, “It’s kind of hard to be a pseudo-commando with a musket in the 18th century.” How did people commit mass murder before the advent of automatic weapons?

Often with fire. Revolutionary War veteran Barnett Davenport is widely considered the first mass murderer in U.S. history. On the evening of Feb. 3, 1780, Davenport burst into the bedroom of his employer, Caleb Mallory, and began to bludgeon Mallory and his wife with a club. When the club broke in two, Davenport beat the couple to death with Mallory’s gun. If Davenport had stopped there, he would be remembered as just an ordinary killer; most criminologists define mass murder as the killing of at least three people in a single incident. After beating the Mallorys to death, however, Davenport burned the house down, killing their three grandchildren.

Hundreds of other mass murderers have perpetrated their crimes without automatic firearms. Frenchman Pierre Riviere killed his mother, sister, and brother with a bill hook in 1835. In 1932, Julian Marcelino, a Filipino immigrant of relatively small stature, managed to kill six and wound 15 on a Seattle street using only a pair of blades. In 1915, Monroe Phillips shot seven dead and wounded 32 with a shotgun in Georgia.

Guns aren’t even the most lethal mass murder weapon. According to data compiled by Grant Duwe of the Minnesota Department of Corrections, guns killed an average of 4.92 victims per mass murder in the United States during the 20th century, just edging out knives, blunt objects, and bare hands, which killed

(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; co; massmurder; weapon
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Good information for the "gun control" debate.
1 posted on 07/28/2012 2:49:40 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Jihadists are doing it with bombs.

Holmes was prepared to do it with bombs too.


2 posted on 07/28/2012 2:51:19 PM PDT by marron
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To: marron

Apparently fertilizer works pretty well too...


3 posted on 07/28/2012 2:56:19 PM PDT by C210N ("ask not what the candidate can do for you, ask what you can do for the candidate" (Breitbart, 2012))
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To: marron
Pretty clear Holmes was trapped in one of the video game industries most famous meme sets:

.

Narrator: In A.D. 2101, war was beginning.

Captain: What happen ?

Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb.

(spoken in the Flash animation as Someone set up us the bomb)

Operator: We get signal.

Captain: What !

Operator: Main screen turn on.

Captain: It's you !!

CATS: How are you gentlemen !!

CATS: All your base are belong to us.

CATS: You are on the way to destruction.

Captain: What you say !!

4 posted on 07/28/2012 2:58:05 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: C210N

If Andrew Kehoe hadn’t had access to dynamite, he would have used fertilizer and no one batted an eye when he bought it because he was a farmer.


5 posted on 07/28/2012 3:00:32 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: marron
BTW, Holmes was actually a mad bomber. His bomb could have killed hundreds of people ~ mostly by fire.

We must never forget that, and don't give him credit for not succeeding in the full scope of his attempt. That'd be like letting the JIhadis off the hook because they only killed 3,000+ Rather than the 100,000+ they intended.

This guy is one bad dude.

6 posted on 07/28/2012 3:02:32 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: marktwain

Bombs, fire, disease, stampedes, avalanches, poison, starvation, wars, ship sinkings, explosives...anything they would use nowadays other than modern weapons.


7 posted on 07/28/2012 3:03:47 PM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: marktwain

They siezed or burned crops. They dragged people out of their homes and marched them to death. They burned their homes in the dead of winter. Modern variations on the theme persist.


8 posted on 07/28/2012 3:06:04 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: marktwain

Politics.


9 posted on 07/28/2012 3:06:51 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: C210N

Guy Fawkes used barrels of gunpowder placed under Westminster. Before that, you pretty much had to have an army of your own.


10 posted on 07/28/2012 3:08:10 PM PDT by jmcenanly ("The more corrupt the state, the more laws." Tacitus, Publius Cornelius)
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To: marron

I read somewhere that most of the casualties were from Holme’s shotgun and not the AR-15 which jammed. Cannot find the link now.
Certainly if this was true the media would love to suppress this information as it doesn’t fit into the “Assault Rifle” meme.


11 posted on 07/28/2012 3:08:27 PM PDT by vlad335
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To: marktwain

The Happy Land Social Club arson killed 87 people in The Bronx on March 25, 1990.
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire
-


12 posted on 07/28/2012 3:08:56 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: marktwain
Bath School Disaster - 1927

The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, which killed 38 elementary school children, two teachers, four other adults and the bomber himself; at least 58 people were injured. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7–14 years of age [1]) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest mass murder in a school in U.S. history.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/p28mb

Branch Davidian Slaughter - Waco Texas

In 1993 The ATF slaughtered seventy-six people including more than 20 children, two pregnant women and their unborn children. They used M1 Abrams tanks, Bradley fightiing vehicles and unknown (to us) military ordinance to destroy and burn the compound sending 76 people to a horrible death.


13 posted on 07/28/2012 3:10:05 PM PDT by Iron Munro ("Jiggle the Handle for Barry!")
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To: marktwain
(1986) Man with sword kills 2, wounds 12 on NY Staten Island Ferry

Biggest mass murder in NYC history before 9/11 performed with gasoline bomb

14 posted on 07/28/2012 3:11:28 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: marktwain

Most of this was done with machetes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide


15 posted on 07/28/2012 3:13:11 PM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: marktwain

Interesting info on mass killings.k


16 posted on 07/28/2012 3:14:11 PM PDT by ExCTCitizen (Yes, Obama, I had help with my business. MY CUSTOMERS!!)
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To: Izzy Dunne
“Politics.”

____

An absolute fact, Politicians have killed more people than any single thing on the planet other than maybe disease or natural disasters. While they may not have pulled the trigger or lit the fuse they are the direct cause, and you NEVER see one of FKRS on the front line. Just my opinion you understand.

17 posted on 07/28/2012 3:17:01 PM PDT by mongo141 (Revolution ver. 2.0, just a matter of when, not a matter of if!)
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To: marktwain
Lizzy Borden took an ax

and gave her father 50 wacks

when she saw what she had done

she gave her mother 51.

Killers always find a way to kill.

18 posted on 07/28/2012 3:19:35 PM PDT by metalurgist ( Want your country back? It'll take guns and rope. Marxists won't give up peaceably.)
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To: marktwain

History is chock full of mass murders before and without firearms.

What it isn’t full of are example of weaker individuals successfully defending themselves before firearms.


19 posted on 07/28/2012 3:26:33 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: metalurgist
Lizzy Borden took an ax and gave her father 50 wacks

The key here is not that she had an axe, but that she had an axe and they didn't.

20 posted on 07/28/2012 3:30:35 PM PDT by marron
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To: SampleMan
Sense 1951 when records were kept

Their has been no mass murders have never happen at a place where guns were allowed. ( Movie Theaters, Schools)

21 posted on 07/28/2012 3:32:19 PM PDT by scooby321 (h tones)
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To: SampleMan
What it isn’t full of are example of weaker individuals successfully defending themselves before firearms.

Exactly. In a world without firearms, the strong rule and the weak are victims.

22 posted on 07/28/2012 3:33:46 PM PDT by marron
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To: marktwain

Mass murders are more common due to increasing, popular immorality. It’s yet another symptom of the bipartisan anti-family, anti-American, debt/robber regime.


23 posted on 07/28/2012 3:33:54 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: marktwain

For the Romans, the Gladius Hispaniensis. For the Mongols, the recurve bow.


24 posted on 07/28/2012 3:35:36 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: Iron Munro

I was trying to remember the name of it,
TNT set off in the basement I believe.


25 posted on 07/28/2012 3:37:53 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: marktwain

When does murder become mass murder? More than one, five, ten?


26 posted on 07/28/2012 3:40:05 PM PDT by Misterioso (They tried to get me to hate white people, but someone would always come along and spoil it. - Monk)
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To: SampleMan
What it isn’t full of are example of weaker individuals successfully defending themselves before firearms.

See entry at King Alfred I.

27 posted on 07/28/2012 3:41:50 PM PDT by Melas (u)
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To: marktwain

Tripped and fell on the first sentence. The killer in the theater did not have auto weapons.


28 posted on 07/28/2012 3:46:00 PM PDT by lurk
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To: marktwain

They can define mass murder as “Chicago”......but that may be the plan. Somehow, I believe they are using blacks in Chicago to turn people against guns. JMO


29 posted on 07/28/2012 3:49:54 PM PDT by RC2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDMeDmV0ufU)
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To: marron

Must have been an ax free zone.


30 posted on 07/28/2012 3:52:58 PM PDT by metalurgist ( Want your country back? It'll take guns and rope. Marxists won't give up peaceably.)
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To: marktwain
Not pre-modern, but there's always Kool-Aid:


31 posted on 07/28/2012 3:56:57 PM PDT by Hunton Peck (This too, shall pass, unless we're in Harry Reid's Senate and "this" is a budget.)
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To: marktwain

While it was far from murder, I do remember reading somewhere about some guy killing 1,000 men just using the jaw bone of an ass.

Some other asses in Congress have reputedly used their jaw bones to talk to death a fair number of victims, too.


32 posted on 07/28/2012 4:04:19 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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To: Misterioso

The normal usage refers to three or more in a single event.

Serial killings are usually, though not always, repeated incidents of killing of a single person.


33 posted on 07/28/2012 4:04:44 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: marktwain

Caligula..now there was one who was really good at it.

Of course the Romans were all good at it. Later, it was the church who became good at it.

Bloody Mary killed some 300 for simply having bibles in English on them-two who were my ancestors. There are first hand accounts of the burnings.


34 posted on 07/28/2012 4:12:28 PM PDT by crz
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To: marktwain

For another..Glen Coe was an event all its own.

Of course the aftermath of Culloden was one huge mass murder, or, for that matter, the Great Highland Clearances.

So many, and these all the result of a monarchy


35 posted on 07/28/2012 4:17:05 PM PDT by crz
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To: Hunton Peck
Not pre-modern, but there's always Kool-Aid:

And now look at all the Ignorant Masses that BO has drinking his Kool Aid

36 posted on 07/28/2012 4:38:18 PM PDT by Nevermore (...just a typical cracker, clinging to my Constitutional rights...)
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To: marktwain
A man wielding "a two-foot ornamental blade" on the Staten Island Ferry hacked 2 persons to death, and wounded 9, back in 1986.

Here is the NYT's story. It must have killed them to have to report that a retired policeman --who happened to be on board and was carrying a gun-- stopped the murderer from killing many more...

MAN WITH SWORD KILLS 2 AND WOUNDS 9 ON S.I. FERRY
By ROBERT D. McFADDEN Published: July 8, 1986

A homeless Cuban refugee, chanting and apparently deranged, went on a rampage with a sword aboard a Staten Island ferryboat yesterday and killed two people and wounded nine others before being subdued by a retired police officer at gunpoint.

Wielding a two-foot ornamental blade apparently purchased in Times Square, the assailant pursued, hacked and stabbed victims on two decks of the rumbling, 310-foot ferry, the Samuel I. Newhouse, at about 8:45 A.M. as the boat passed the Statue of Liberty, bound from Manhattan to Staten Island.

As passengers shrieked and fled in pandemonium that went on for nearly five minutes, the assailant was stabbing another victim on the top deck when the 55-year-old retired officer, Edward del Pino, who lives on Staten Island and carries a gun for a part-time job as a security guard in Manhattan, abruptly confronted him.

''Drop it!'' Mr. del Pino shouted, and fired a warning shot. He then ordered the disarmed man to lie on a bench, pointed his chrome-plated .38-caliber revolver directly at the assailant's face and warned: ''You move and you're dead!''

The suspect - who was seized by the police as the boat drew into St. George Terminal and ambulances rushed victims to two Staten Island hospitals -was identified as Juan J. Gonzalez, 43 years old, a homeless man who came to the United States in the 1977 boatlift of refugees from Mariel*, Cuba, and has sometimes stayed at shelters in New York City... [*emphasis and asterisk mine - the "Mariel boatlift" refers to Jimmah Carter's "humanitarian" acceptance of a boatload of criminal immigrants into the USA - shhrub]

- rest of the article here

37 posted on 07/28/2012 4:41:08 PM PDT by shhrubbery! (NIH!)
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To: marktwain

In late 2005 the city of San Francisco enacted a total ban on the manufacture, sale, transfer or distribution of firearms or ammunition in San Francisco, as well as a ban on the possession of handguns within the city by San Francisco residents. The law was later struck down in court. Can any Freeper guess the name of the law? (Remember: this is San Francisco, LOL!)


38 posted on 07/28/2012 4:45:23 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (You didn't build that. We built that ... city on rock and roll.)
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To: marron

“The Shootout at the OK Corral” was pretty violent.


39 posted on 07/28/2012 4:50:10 PM PDT by Twinkie (Obama; fundamentally turning America into Sodom & Gomorrah one EO at a time.)
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To: SampleMan

Annie Oakley thought every woman should have a gun beside her bed and one to carry in her parasol.


40 posted on 07/28/2012 4:53:25 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: marktwain
Another Holmes in the 1890's, H.H. Holmes, dispatched many in his murder castle on the south side of Chicago in the Englewood neighborhood. weird&hauntedchicago The book DEPRAVED, written by Harold Schechter calls Holmes Americas first serial killer. DEPRAVED
41 posted on 07/28/2012 5:17:18 PM PDT by dznutz
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To: Iron Munro

From Wikipedia - “The Poe Elementary School bombing was a school bombing that occurred in Houston, Texas, United States on September 15, 1959. Six people, including the perpetrator, were killed.”

This was my elementary school.

You can’t fix crazy. Stuff like this has always happened....always will. Taking away guns isn’t the answer.


42 posted on 07/28/2012 5:17:40 PM PDT by BelleAl (Proud to be a member of the party of NO! NO more deficit spending and government control!)
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To: cripplecreek

Jack Gilbert Graham blew up a passenger train in 1955 so he could collect the life insurance on his mother. He caused the death of 45 people. He used 25 sticks of dynamite, that was wrapped up in a gift package that he had put in his mothers luggage. When asked didn’t it bother him that he killed all those people, he said, no when it’s your time to go, it’s time. He was executed in 1957.


43 posted on 07/28/2012 5:25:52 PM PDT by JimC214
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To: JimC214

Plane not train.


44 posted on 07/28/2012 5:26:52 PM PDT by JimC214
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To: marktwain

ping


45 posted on 07/28/2012 5:29:53 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: marktwain

ping


46 posted on 07/28/2012 5:30:15 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: JimC214

Just a couple of years ago someone in Europe attacked school children with a knife and stabbed more than a dozen.


47 posted on 07/28/2012 5:32:49 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: marktwain

This was on Slate?

There must be something in my water.


48 posted on 07/28/2012 5:33:50 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: marktwain

Wasn’t there a killer in the 20’s or 30’s who killed, like, 50 with dynamite? Seems to me he attacked a school or something similar.


49 posted on 07/28/2012 5:39:17 PM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (I'm for Churchill in 1940!)
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To: marktwain

Let us not forget that in the end of Homer’s epic poem
when Odysseus finally returns home after ten years, he
finds his house filled with suitors for his wife’s hand
who have been eating and drinking the fruits of his
estate, he proceeds to draw and string his bow,
shoot through many axeheads then to slaughter them
all with the help of his son.

Poetic definitely.


50 posted on 07/28/2012 5:45:22 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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