[SkyPilot]

Respectfully, before you use words such as "hogwash", "distorted", and "extrapolate" - it would be wise to at least read the very words of Michael Medved quoted in the link.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2811449/posts

This isn't something I made up.

The facts here vis a vis what Medved said are not even in a gray area. There can be no confusing what his opinions are on this matter. I didn't "distort" or "extrapolate" anything.

I linked to a FR thread that discussed this, and within that thread is a link to Medved's original thesis.

What gives? If Israel isn't the factor that impels most Jews to vote differently from their Christian neighbors, then what is? The answer is that distinctive religious attitudes among Jews play a greater role in shaping voting behavior than ideology, education levels, income, or any sense of ethnic solidarity. The most recent National Jewish Population Survey found only 27% of American Jews attending synagogue even once a month, compared with Gallup polls showing 53% of Americans in general (and 61% of Republicans) who attend church at least that regularly. Only 59% of American Jews bother to fast on Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the year, compared with the more than 95% of Christians who say they celebrate Christmas. By every measure, American Jews are less involved with religious organizations and observance than their Catholic or Protestant neighbors. As Gallup regularly reports, religious outlook plays a profound role in shaping political preferences. In 2008, those who attended religious services every week gave McCain a big advantage of 12 percentage points while those declaring they "never" attended church (16% of the population) went for Obama by an even more lopsided margin: 67% to 30%. It shouldn't come as a surprise that the Jewish community, where only a minority chooses to worship even monthly, mirrors the political attitudes of the secular community of "no affiliation" far more closely than it reflects the outlook of any other religious faith. The voting behavior of American Jews conforms closely to the preferences of the irreligious and the unaffiliated precisely because so many of them are, in fact, theologically unaffiliated. This means that Republican identification as the more viscerally, consistently pro-Israel party won't attract American Jews as powerfully as they'll feel repelled by the GOP image as the more outspokenly religious party — and particularly the political home of enthusiastic Christian Evangelicals. Given their prevailing disconnection from observance or religious affirmation, many Jews characterize themselves not by what they believe but what they don't believe: We're not Christians. This is the single shared religious conviction (or non-conviction) connecting secular atheists such as Woody Allen and Orthodox believers such as Joe Lieberman. It's also why "Jews for Jesus" or self-styled "Messianic Jews" are ultimate outcasts in the Jewish world, recognized by no mainstream organizations. By embracing Christian doctrine, such groups defy the very essence of Jewishness for big majorities of American Jews who maintain no affiliation with religious institutions, but nonetheless reject claims of Christ's divinity.

Gee, a lot of ambiguity by Medved there, right? I mean, I "distorted" and "extrapolated" what he said about Christ being the issue among Jews, didn't I? No, I didn't.

Medved went on to say:

"When Pastor Robert Jeffress told the Values Voter Summit last month that he preferredRick Perry because the Texas governor was "a genuine follower of Jesus Christ," Jewish voters cringed, understandably. Jeffress' formulation for an ideal candidate might have left Mormons out (a matter of hot dispute, depending on whether Mormonism counts as a form of Christianity), but it most certainly excluded Jews like me. Such incidents leave many Jews poised to vote on fears of Christian intolerance rather than hopes of Christian love for Israel."

As to the issue of Mormonism, you said you don't care less - but that point is essential among Christians. To many Jews, Mormonism is simply another "He's Not-Jewish" category - but to Christians, Mormonism is an apostate cult. Even Medved addresses the issue of Mormonism being rejected by many Christians in his article.

As an Evangelical Christian, I am on your side. I am on Israel's side. I am on the side of Jews against Islam. I am gladly on the side of Jehovah who made a covenant with the Jewish people that is still valid today.

However, it is clear that many, many Jews reject Republicans because they associate Republicans with following Yeshua, who they reject as the Messiah.

One of the greatest Jewish men to ever walk this planet was Paul - who became the greatest Christian evangelist the world has ever known. He wrote:

"But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness." 1 Corinthians 1:23

[bert]

I once tried to make this point and was put in time out for a month. To differentiate between practicing and non practicing I used the terms Jews and jews.

The former are religious, the latter are not but have a practicing heritage.

[expat1000]

This isn't something I made up.

Well, we could start with the 'clearly a majority'

People MUST understand this; to many Jewish voters (clearly the majority), here is the equation that matter above all else:

Someone just posted that Medved's suggestions are bizarre. I agree completely. Listening to conversations on politics and Judaism through multiple family generations and never having heard anything like this being sentiment being expressed, I indeed find them bizarre.

Not only anecdotally. Steyn did a piece on this subject a while ago that was more on the mark. Norman Podhoretz has a thoughtful analysis also in a new book. Why are Jews Liberals. Daniel Greenfield has written on the subject a number of times. None of them agree either. Indeed, a bizarre theory, especially the suggestion that it's applicable to the majority of Jews.

I understand you feel you are 'on my side'. I feel you are too, but I wonder if you have ever talked to a Jewish person - even here on FR about this, - ever experienced anyone actually expressing this sentiment.

[MarkL]

I think a big part of the distrust and nervousness Medved espouses is due to history.

Just like many American Blacks can’t seem to get over the “effects” of slavery, even though they may never have experienced slavery themselves, American Jews seem to have a “racial memory” of historical mistreatment by Christians, and this will probably be the case for a couple more generations, but as was mentioned, younger Jews tend to be more open-minded.

The problem has been that many European Jewish immigrants have handed down their stories of mistreatment by Christians, Catholics, or Russian Orthodox, though for some reason, they overlook the communists. I recall my grandfather telling me to never trust a Christian, and that was directly from his experiences in Poland and Russia around the turn of the century, before the Russian Revolution.

Mark

[Zionist Conspirator]

"When Pastor Robert Jeffress told the Values Voter Summit last month that he preferredRick Perry because the Texas governor was "a genuine follower of Jesus Christ," Jewish voters cringed, understandably.

I'm not chrstian (nor Jewish either), but that was nothing to cringe at. Naturally chrstians would prefer a "real chrstian" to be president. That's only natural and there's absolutely nothing hateful about it whatsoever.

As to the issue of Mormonism, you said you don't care less - but that point is essential among Christians. To many Jews, Mormonism is simply another "He's Not-Jewish" category - but to Christians, Mormonism is an apostate cult.

To non-Orthodox Jews mormons are just another "he's not Jewish category," but to Orthodox Jews and Noachides like myself chrstianity itself is an apostate cult. I'm not offended by chrstians fighting against what they regard as a false form of their religion but I wish they would try to understand that to some of us the whole spectacle is just one bizarre apostate cult condemning a small subset of its members for being too bizarre. How would you feel if you lived in an area with a high moslem population and the candidates were arguing about who was a "true" moslem and who was an "apostate," when to you they're both wrong???

Another issue with me personally is the notion many evengelicals have that the USA is THE special, chosen holy country, chosen specifically to be ruled by evengelicals as the "true religion." Unlike most non-chrstians who point out that most of America's founders weren't orthodox chrstians, I don't take any joy in pointing that out. We'd probably be better off today if they had been orthodox, at least in the evengelical Protestant way. But this notion that G-d chose or created the USA just so Baptists could create a "city on a hill" to show the rest of the world the "true religion" is a form of "identity" chrstianity--not as nasty as the neo-Nazis, but "identity" just the same. It is a parallel narrative to the election of Israel and that just won't wash.

Furthermore this type of national religion doesn't take long to degenerate into idolatry. "God" soon morphs from the Universal True G-d into a local deity, an idol. Evangelicals who think G-d inspired the Constitution (which is actually a mormon belief) are no different than those Black nationalist chrstians who think J*sus was one of them--Soul Brother Number One, J*sus X, the First Revolutionary.

This radical localization is not at all unique to American evangelicals, however. Traditonally chrstian nations have always localized G-d. Each chrstian nation likes to think it is the "new Israel." Why do the Ethiopians claim the Ark of the Covenant? Why do the Armenians believe that "the chrstian race is the Armenian race?" Why do Greeks insist that only Greeks can truly understand chrstian theology since it was originally formulated in Greek? American evangelicals are no worse than these other groups (in fact they're a considerable improvement), but it's still frustrating to see the same old story ("we're Israel now!") repeating itself.

Pinging wideawake to this post simply because he understands what I'm trying to say here and nobody else probably will.