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Indiana Law: Citizens Now Allowed to Shoot Law Enforcement During Unlawful Entry
The Intell Hub ^ | July 10, 2012 | Shepard Ambellas

Posted on 08/06/2012 9:26:31 AM PDT by QT3.14

A new law in Indiana authorizes the general public to use deadly force against public servants (including law enforcement officers) who unlawfully enter private property.

The measure, approved by Gov. Mitch Daniels in March, (who himself is a Bilderberg member, making the situation even more interesting) is a real game changer as the script has been flipped on the police when it comes to deadly force.

(Excerpt) Read more at theintelhub.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; US: Indiana
KEYWORDS: burglary; criminaltrespass; in2012; indiana; lawenforcement; leo; noknock; police; propertyrights; trespass; unlawfulentry; warrant
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1 posted on 08/06/2012 9:26:41 AM PDT by QT3.14
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To: QT3.14

Of course, they’re also allowed to shoot you. If you so much as say ‘pow.’ Or ‘woof.’


2 posted on 08/06/2012 9:29:20 AM PDT by Lady Lucky
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To: QT3.14

“A new law in Indiana authorizes the general public to use deadly force against public servants (including law enforcement officers) who unlawfully enter private property.”

Oh good. Do you consult your live-in Lawyer before capping someone? Or just start blasting away? Never mind, I think I know the answer. The let’s-off-the-pigs crowd will love this...just think how many more bodies can pile up now. Cripes.


3 posted on 08/06/2012 9:33:56 AM PDT by jessduntno ("Racism is not dead...it is on life support - kept alive by politicians..." - Thomas Sowell)
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To: QT3.14
A new law in Indiana authorizes the general public to use deadly force against public servants (including law enforcement officers) who unlawfully enter private property.

Good, police won't be entering private property any more unless they are invited or don't have a court order.

Seems like it's pretty common sense to me in a personal freedom sort of way.

4 posted on 08/06/2012 9:34:17 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: QT3.14

Recall that this law is in response to an Indiana Supreme Court ruling that people had no right to oppose an unauthorized/warrantless entry onto their private property.


5 posted on 08/06/2012 9:36:46 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: QT3.14

Get probable cause. Get the right house. Most important, handle things properly instead of a sneaky Swat raid when it isn’t appropriate.


6 posted on 08/06/2012 9:37:38 AM PDT by Darren McCarty (Holding my nose one more time to get rid of Eric Holder)
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To: jessduntno

This is great. Maybe now the cops will start thinking before they kick doors in. Heck, maybe a few of them will discover these new fangled thingies called MapQuest or Google Earth.

Anything that holds cops personally responsible when they act unlawfully is fine by me. I’m sick of the taxpayers taking in the neck when cops get out of line. Those settlements come out of tax money, never from the cops pockets.

Well now that their lives are on the line maybe, just maybe, they’ll start doing a fraction of the due diligence required by those of us out here in the private sector.


7 posted on 08/06/2012 9:39:29 AM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: jessduntno

“The let’s-off-the-pigs crowd will love this...just think how many more bodies can pile up now. Cripes.”

It actually sounds like police are allowed to shoot more readily, allegedly thinking citizens are shooting at them.

The cops-can-do-no-wrong crowd will love this. Just think how many more citizen/dog shootings there will be. Cripes.


8 posted on 08/06/2012 9:40:43 AM PDT by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: QT3.14

This shouldn't really be a problem, should it? The police would not enter property unlawfully, in general. And if they did, they would be perpetrators and expect lawful resistance. As citizens assert their 2nd Amendment rights, it seems appropriate and kind to warn law enforcement today to keep their t's crossed and i's dotted before taking action. Protect law enforcement personnel by making them aware of the consequences of their actions. It should never be illegal to resist someone simply because they are wearing a uniform or carrying a badge, lest the criminals just start wearing uniforms and carrying badges.


9 posted on 08/06/2012 9:42:24 AM PDT by so_real ( "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: jessduntno
Do you consult your live-in Lawyer before capping someone?

If someone dressed as a cop comes into your house without a signed warrant then they are up to no good. They are breaking the law. They mean you harm - after all, they have already broken your property rights.

How would you go about defending yourself from a home invasion by armed intruders in costume? Blazing away with a room-broom sounds like a good first step.

Remember: Anders Breivik dressed as a cop. Assume nothing about those strange people in your home.

10 posted on 08/06/2012 9:43:08 AM PDT by agere_contra (Vote ABO. Don't choose the Greater Evil and then boast about how principled you are)
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To: jessduntno

Probably fewer as cops realize they need to get their addresses correct, use tactical common sense (server the warrant when nobody is home) and otherwise reduce the usage of para-military tactics.


11 posted on 08/06/2012 9:44:13 AM PDT by Little Ray (AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: so_real

This PROTECTS the cops.

Now, when they shoot you or your dog when entering your house unlawfully, they can claim you were shooting at them.

Police union bots are probably busily saying this now, after, of course, their standard, “Fine, see how fast cops come to YOUR house when you need them” posts for anyone who supports this “restriction” on cops.


12 posted on 08/06/2012 9:46:44 AM PDT by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: jessduntno

Have you ALWAYS been a “Law-Enforcment” BOOT-Licker? COPS are NOT and NEVER will be your “friends”!


13 posted on 08/06/2012 9:47:24 AM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: QT3.14

The question that begs to be asked: How do you know they are performing a “no knock” entry with a valid warrant or they are simply breaking down your door because they “suspect” something is going on?


14 posted on 08/06/2012 9:49:30 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.)
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To: so_real
It should never be illegal to resist someone simply because they are wearing a uniform or carrying a badge, lest the criminals just start wearing uniforms and carrying badges.

It's not uncommon for home invaders to scream "Police!, Police!". The only reason it works is because unannounced, bust-in searches that are indistinguishable from home invasions to the occupants are all too commonplace.

15 posted on 08/06/2012 9:54:46 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: US Navy Vet

“Have you ALWAYS been a “Law-Enforcment” BOOT-Licker? COPS are NOT and NEVER will be your “friends”!”

The cops-can-do-no-wrong and cops-never-lie mentality among conservatives, especially LEO or retired LEO, unfortunately seems to be quite common.

It generally seems to separate the hard right wingers from the classical liberals (true conservatives) here.


16 posted on 08/06/2012 9:57:37 AM PDT by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: so_real

Well said.


17 posted on 08/06/2012 9:58:17 AM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: QT3.14

Section 219 of the Texas code allown someone to protect themselves with deadly force if a law enforcement officer uses greater than necessary deadly force on them.

The Branch Davidians were acquitted of murdering the ATF agents that bailed out of their trailers blasting away at the Davidian compound.


18 posted on 08/06/2012 10:01:44 AM PDT by MikeSteelBe (Austrian Hitler was, as the Halfrican Hitler does.)
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To: Lurker

gee whiz, no more kicking down doors to the wrong house cause the idiots can’t bother reading the address and must now have a warrent, Oh the horror of it all.....not only at the wrong house but killing the dog and making grandma lay on the floor next to her dead dog......thats one supreme court that should be impeached....


19 posted on 08/06/2012 10:03:02 AM PDT by goat granny
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To: jessduntno

Well, this is one way to hold lazy/incompetent/evil home-invading cops VERY personally responsible. I’m all for it.

Hard-working, diligent, competent, honorable police don’t have a thing to fear.

But I’m curious: what do *you* think the consequences should be for a “wrong” police invasion of an innocent person’s home? Anything at all?


20 posted on 08/06/2012 10:09:53 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Love the cult, respect the leader, but I simply can't drink the koolaid and die.)
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To: jessduntno

I agree, it’s a stupid law. There’s no way a person can tell if the officer at the door is acting lawfully or not until after the fact. And police work is dangerous enough. Best to just go along and keep your mouth shut until it’s clear what’s going on.


21 posted on 08/06/2012 10:11:10 AM PDT by popdonnelly (The first priority is get Obama out of the White House.)
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To: Lady Lucky

Yep, if you shoot someone entering your home unlawfully and they happen to be a cop, your house and body will be so riddled with bullets that neither will be recognizable.


22 posted on 08/06/2012 10:16:28 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: QT3.14
But Rambocop can still shoot their dog from outside,right?
23 posted on 08/06/2012 10:17:22 AM PDT by BigCinBigD (...Was that okay?)
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To: QT3.14

Anyone, cop, king or president entering my property illegally is taking his chances on early retirement. I don’t miss much and there’s no shame in follow-up


24 posted on 08/06/2012 10:17:44 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Legalize Freedom!!)
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To: All
Indiana laws about unlawful entry cover Burglary (Class A and B felonies);
Residential Entry (Class D felony); and Criminal Trespass (Class A misdemeanor).

Wonder which one would apply to the police since some relate to
armed with a deadly weapon.

25 posted on 08/06/2012 10:19:31 AM PDT by QT3.14 (Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain)
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To: jessduntno

Do you consult your live-in Lawyer before capping someone?
***There is a problem with that, because the entry will be deemed unlawful after the event by some monday morning quarterbacks. At least this law addresses the fact that the court previously deemed that citizens did not even have such a right.

My question is... if the cops enter the wrong house is it an unlawful entry?

If they find something illegal in the house even with an improper entry, are they allowed to prosecute the owner? If they’re going in hard for a drug dealer but find instead a kidnapper, is the case blown?


26 posted on 08/06/2012 10:25:39 AM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: Nervous Tick

“But I’m curious: what do *you* think the consequences should be for a “wrong” police invasion of an innocent person’s home? Anything at all?”

Well...since I don’t consider all .00001% of these incidents to which you refer to be done by someone who is evil...it would have to be judged case by case. If a cop is accidentally sent to the wrong address, though, and you blow him up, did you just kill an innocent man?


27 posted on 08/06/2012 10:27:38 AM PDT by jessduntno ("Racism is not dead...it is on life support - kept alive by politicians..." - Thomas Sowell)
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To: Kevmo

“If they find something illegal in the house even with an improper entry, are they allowed to prosecute the owner? If they’re going in hard for a drug dealer but find instead a kidnapper, is the case blown?”

Good questions. Best answered while the adrenalin is pumping?


28 posted on 08/06/2012 10:34:25 AM PDT by jessduntno ("Racism is not dead...it is on life support - kept alive by politicians..." - Thomas Sowell)
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To: QT3.14

If a law enforcement officer enters a private home without cause or warrant, he does so without the authority of the people and is therefore not enforcing any law. He is there on no authority but his own, which does not exist in a private home.

Good for Indiana. Go to hell, supreme court justices!


29 posted on 08/06/2012 10:35:02 AM PDT by cotton1706
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To: jessduntno

>> all .00001% of these incidents

That’s one “wrong” police home invasion in 1,000,000.

Did you make that number up, or do you have some evidence that your statement is correct?

It sounds low to me.


30 posted on 08/06/2012 10:39:06 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Love the cult, respect the leader, but I simply can't drink the koolaid and die.)
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To: treetopsandroofs

Does the law say “house” or “property”. If it says “property” it means a cop could be shot for ringing the doorbell.

Another question, how is the homeowner to know whether or not the cop is entering legally?


31 posted on 08/06/2012 10:45:29 AM PDT by Terry Mross (To my kin & former friends: Don't contact me if you still love obama- We got nothing to talk about)
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To: jessduntno

My bad! Math error — .000001% is one in TEN million, not one in one million.

Now the assumption that underpins your push-back is looking REALLY low.

What about it? Is that one in ten million “wrong” home invasions claim of yours truth, or fiction?


32 posted on 08/06/2012 10:47:08 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Love the cult, respect the leader, but I simply can't drink the koolaid and die.)
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To: popdonnelly
Best to just go along and keep your mouth shut until it’s clear what’s going on.

By which time the home invaders have rendered you helpless. It'll be pretty clear what's going on as they rape your wife . . . but you'll probably never know because you'll already be dead.

The real issue is: Under what circumstances is it a valid police tactic to make a rapid, violent entry indistinguishable from a home invasion?

I can't think of any except a hostage situation where the assailant is known to be commited to suicide. There hasn't been a situation like that in the United States. Ever. There have been some suicides after a standoff, but not where it was known going in that this would happen.

And there are lots - far, far too many - of examples where a no-knock home invasion under color of law resulted in needless death. Ruby Ridge and Waco were just two famous examples, but we've had one in the town where I live. I know several of our police officers and they're good guys. But the no-knock, violent-entry warrants are an unConstitutional and unjustified risk to eveyrone involved. Simply, patiently, serving a valid search or arrest warrant will save a lot of lives.

Since you can't tell if it's "good" guys or bad guys by what they say or what they wear - certainly not in the heat of the moment - then your only choices are to be a sheep and therefore responsible for the death of your family if it *is* a criminal home invasion, or to resist with sufficient force to protect your family.
33 posted on 08/06/2012 10:53:20 AM PDT by Phlyer
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To: Terry Mross

What the heck, I clicked on the article to find the answer to your first question, guessing you can, too.

As to the second, how indeed?

Or was yours a rhetorical question, and cops always do the right thing?


34 posted on 08/06/2012 10:58:54 AM PDT by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: QT3.14

HALLELUJAH, HALLELUJAH! Now let’s hope it spreads.


35 posted on 08/06/2012 11:01:37 AM PDT by arderkrag (ABOs are Romneybot trolls. LOOKING FOR ROLEPLAYERS. Check Profile.)
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To: Nervous Tick

How many civil interactions do you think take place in a routine day in all of America? How many end up in the tragedies you cull from them?

Let’s see;

There are as of 2006, (the last count I know) 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S.

Multiply that by 365 working days in a year.

How many interactions do YOU think take place? 12 or so? All by Jack Booted Thugs?


36 posted on 08/06/2012 11:01:37 AM PDT by jessduntno ("Racism is not dead...it is on life support - kept alive by politicians..." - Thomas Sowell)
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To: jessduntno

>> If a cop is accidentally sent to the wrong address, though, and you blow him up, did you just kill an innocent man?

Yes, “you” did kill an innocent man.

But that doesn’t mean the dead cop’s blood is on “your” hands. In other words, “you” are innocent also.

Whoever SENT the innocent cop is guilty of his blood, and should be punished. Whether it be lying informer, incompetent/evil cop/judge, whatever...

But since you broached the hypothetical, let’s carry it a little further.

If this sort of police behavior is continually “rewarded” because there are NO consequences, we’ll get more of it.

If cops — even innocent ones — who pull this stuff are at risk of getting blown away, then you can bet your booty they’ll be VERY careful before going on a “play army” mission. Every cop whose butt is on the line will DEMAND an audit of the facts of the case before putting their neck on the line.

Which brings me back to the original question: what do you think the consequences ought to be, if not risk of death? You sidestepped my question.

For me, a “wrong address” home invasion should be punishable by:

a) Loss of job
b) Loss of ALL pension and benefits
c) Felony charges, with “swatting the wrong address” being prima facie evidence of guilt
c) INDIVIDUAL (not employer) liability to civil lawsuit

...then I’d say that would have the same deterrent effect as being able to shoot a rogue home invader.

But my guess is, you’d argue just as vociferously against an Indiana law that guaranteed the above as you are now against the current Indiana law.


37 posted on 08/06/2012 11:03:45 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Love the cult, respect the leader, but I simply can't drink the koolaid and die.)
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To: Terry Mross
Another question, how is the homeowner to know whether or not the cop is entering legally?

That's easy:

1. Cop rings doorbell.
2. Occupant answers door.
3. Cop shows occupant the warrant, and says "I am Officer So-and-so, and this is a warrant to search the premises at this address".
4. Occupant reads warrant to confirm correct address.
5. Cop enters to execute search warrant.

That's not so hard now, is it?

38 posted on 08/06/2012 11:07:52 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: popdonnelly

The scary thing is, almost all of these cops-can-do-no-wrong and “keep your mouth shut” posters are the ones who can be counted on the most to vote Republican.


39 posted on 08/06/2012 11:08:13 AM PDT by treetopsandroofs (Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
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To: jessduntno

What is this BS you’re slinging?

There are precisely TWO numbers that matter in the computation.

1) The number of forced home entries by a police officer, and
2) the number of those that are “wrongful”.

All of the other figures you threw around are just your attempt to obfuscate and evade the fact that you made up a bogus number and then hung a bogus argument on it.

Just out of curiosity: are you a cop or ex-cop?


40 posted on 08/06/2012 11:09:37 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Love the cult, respect the leader, but I simply can't drink the koolaid and die.)
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To: QT3.14

No-knock warrants = armed home invasions


41 posted on 08/06/2012 11:16:38 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Phlyer
Since you can't tell if it's "good" guys or bad guys by what
they say or what they wear - certainly not in the heat of
the moment - then your only choices are to be a sheep and
therefore responsible for the death of your family if it
*is* a criminal home invasion, or to resist with sufficient
force to protect your family.

Funny you say that. The other day I was watching a YouTube of two guys
on a homeowner's security cam at his front door wearing ski masks with
'FBI' jackets trying to jimmy, then try to kick in his door. When that failed
they started tearing off a screen off a window next to the door.

Home owner fired a few shots and you can see the two running off like hell!!

42 posted on 08/06/2012 11:21:29 AM PDT by QT3.14 (Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain)
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To: y'all

Botched Paramilitary Police Raids:

An Epidemic of “Isolated Incidents”

“If a widespread pattern of [knock-and-announce] violations were shown . . . there would be reason for grave concern.”

—Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy, in Hudson v. Michigan, June 15, 2006.

An interactive map of botched SWAT and paramilitary police raids, released in conjunction with the Cato policy paper “Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids,” by Radley Balko.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/


43 posted on 08/06/2012 11:26:32 AM PDT by deks ("...the battle of our time is the battle of liberty against the overreach of the federal government")
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To: DuncanWaring
That's not so hard now, is it?

You forgot #6. Bad guy sees cops at door and flushes contraband and down toilet while police wait outside.

44 posted on 08/06/2012 11:30:58 AM PDT by dznutz
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To: Nervous Tick

“Just out of curiosity: are you a cop or ex-cop?”

Why? You a con? Ex-con? WTF does that have to do with anything? The numbers are the numbers. You get a handful of these things a year out of MILLIONS of civilian interactions and all cops are JBT’s. Stupid. Just plain stupid. We’re done.


45 posted on 08/06/2012 11:37:07 AM PDT by jessduntno ("Racism is not dead...it is on life support - kept alive by politicians..." - Thomas Sowell)
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To: DuncanWaring

I’m talking about a no-knock warrant. You’re in bed and you hear the cops kick your door in. They’ve got the wrong address. They entered illegally.


46 posted on 08/06/2012 11:40:07 AM PDT by Terry Mross (To my kin & former friends: Don't contact me if you still love obama- We got nothing to talk about)
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To: dznutz
You forgot #6. Bad guy sees cops at door and flushes contraband and down toilet while police wait outside.

And nobody gets shot.

47 posted on 08/06/2012 11:43:22 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Terry Mross
Right address? Wrong address? I don't see how that matters.

No-knock warrants = armed home invasions

I'm trying to imagine which of our Founding Fathers would have gone along with that.

48 posted on 08/06/2012 11:46:20 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Terry Mross

If I’m in bed and someone kicks the door in, the starting assumption has to be that that’s an illegal entry and can be legitimately met with deadly force.


49 posted on 08/06/2012 11:46:44 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: jessduntno

>> We’re done.

OK. That is the most common reaction of someone unable or unwilling to defend their position, so don’t feel *too* bad. You’re not alone. Not very skilled at persuasion, but definitely not alone.

BTW, I’m skeptical you’re the businessman you hold yourself out to be.

Businesspeople can reason and work with numbers.


50 posted on 08/06/2012 11:47:43 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Love the cult, respect the leader, but I simply can't drink the koolaid and die.)
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