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E15 fuel’s value might still up for debate
Fuel Fix ^ | August 6, 2012 | Dan X. McGraw

Posted on 08/06/2012 9:58:17 AM PDT by thackney

Drivers will soon get to debate whether the cost-savings of E15 fuel is worth the lower fuel economy.

E15, which contains 15 percent ethanol, received final approval by the Environmental Protection Agency earlier this summer, and a Kansas gasoline station became the first station in the nation to sell the alternative fuel.

The station began selling the fuel for $1.15 a gallon, but they quickly upped the price to $3.28, or two cents lower than regular E10. At those prices, Douglas Tiffany, a University of Minnesota assistant professor, said it’s a bit overpriced for its energy production.

“At the moment, I would say that the E15 is maybe a little higher priced than it ought to be,” Tiffany told Midwest Energy News.

Regular gasoline has around 114,000 BTUs, compared to the 108,000 BTUs of E15. So according to Tiffany, drivers would pay about 22 cents per mile on regular gasoline, but they’d pay about 23.5 cents per mile on E15.

According to the U.S. Department of Energy, motorists are expected to get 3 to 4 percent fewer miles per gallon on E10 than straight gasoline, and it seems only logical to think E15 would also come with a similar hit to fuel economy.

So E15 might save you a few cents at the pump, but you could end up paying more per mile.

Supporters have argued the fuel has given Americans relief by knocking $134 billion off the price of gasoline, and they argue the ethanol-gasoline mix will get cheaper as corn prices decline.

The fuel has also faced criticism for potential damage it might cause to car engines. A report earlier this summer found engine damage during an E15 test, but supporters of the fuel said the test was misleading and used questionable testing protocols.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: energy; ethanol; gasoline

1 posted on 08/06/2012 9:58:21 AM PDT by thackney
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To: thackney
Supporters have argued the fuel has given Americans relief by knocking $134 billion off the price of gasoline, and they argue the ethanol-gasoline mix will get cheaper as corn prices decline.

IDIOTS! Content with the lies about fuel economy and gas cost savings at the expense of the ignorance about the ethanol subsidies' costs and the resulting rise in prices of corn related products.

Ethanol DEGRADES many parts on a motor vehicle, even the ones that have the E15 moniker. Seals, tubes, gaskets, not to mention the continuing problem with ruining O2 sensors in the exhaust stream. I've had THREE vehicles that have had 02 sensor problems in the exhaust and a change to real gas solved all three. The unsuspecting consumer in this would eventually be led to replacing a $2000-$3000 catalytic convertor when the problem is the gas.

If you have the same problem, do what I did, buy gas that isn't ethanol doped (if you can find it - stay away from QTrip) or you can invest in a code reader that will reset that crap when it crops up. Screw subsidies, screw ethanol and get us back to an unraped farm crop whose price isn't bastardized by ethanol subsidies.

2 posted on 08/06/2012 10:06:44 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: thackney

With the worst drought since the dust bowel the last thing we need is corn being used for fuel. Second ethonol in gasoline turns it into crap that will ruin any small engine out there.


3 posted on 08/06/2012 10:08:40 AM PDT by painter (Rebuild The America We love!)
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To: Gaffer

I spent in excess of $600 rebuilding fuel systems on small two-cycle engines until I switched to non-ethanol fuel. Since, not one dime, and everything cranks on the first pull. This is nothing but cram-it-down-your-throat, ‘we know best’, govt. BS! Enough of this crap!


4 posted on 08/06/2012 10:11:32 AM PDT by arrdon (Never underestimate the stupidity of the American voter.)
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To: thackney

There is a poll at the article, it has had few responses.

We can fix that.

15% is death to older cars, the only type I own, or want to own.

I’ve also noticed the effect on food prices, the whole Gasahol fraud is criminal.


5 posted on 08/06/2012 10:12:28 AM PDT by Loyal Sedition
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To: thackney

Are they serious?? All this government ever does is take bad ideas and throw taxpayer money at it in the hopes of making it WORSE! E10 SUCKS and E15 SUCKS X 1.5!


6 posted on 08/06/2012 10:13:53 AM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: arrdon

I broke down and bought a 4-cycle engine for the weed eater hoping that will help.

I live in the area that requires reformulated fuel, no non-ethanol gasoline available.


7 posted on 08/06/2012 10:17:18 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

If it needs subsidy: it is not a fuel.


8 posted on 08/06/2012 10:18:03 AM PDT by agere_contra (Vote ABO. Don't choose the Greater Evil and then boast about how principled you are)
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To: thackney

“...and they argue the ethanol-gasoline mix will get cheaper as corn prices decline.”

I almost fell off my chair...this statement has no basis in reality whatsoever.


9 posted on 08/06/2012 10:19:26 AM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: arrdon

I’ve had a few 2-cycles to rebuild carburetor systems on also. I made the mistake of leaving the gas in my Mantis for over a year, and the damned gasket on the gas cap completely melted and flowed into the carburetor when I tried to start it...had to make all new gaskets, new tubes, carburetor rebuild kits - the works. This government sucks.


10 posted on 08/06/2012 10:21:51 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer

Over the weekend, I replaced the carburetor diaphragm on my mower....ethanol killed it.

I haven’t gotten around to fixing my weed eater...I suspect ethanol killed it.

My rider is on carb gasket no. 3....very intricate gaskets that disintegrate...due to ethanol.

My car....the steel fuel line rusted from the inside out!!! I replaced with nickel/copper alloy line.

I live in Kansas...and I can’t avoid the stuff.


11 posted on 08/06/2012 10:23:04 AM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: lacrew

Ethanol plants here in Indiana are closing up faster than K-marts in the 1990s.

Since congress repealed the subsidy on domestic production and the tariff on imports (end of 2011) I assume Brazil sugar cane ethanol is taking over.


12 posted on 08/06/2012 10:23:44 AM PDT by nascarnation
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To: thackney

What I would do if I were you is to use what you have, but make doggone sure that you run-out whatever is left in the machine before you put it up for the season. Run it until it is bone dry.... Don’t let that fuel set in there for any length of time.


13 posted on 08/06/2012 10:24:13 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: lacrew

Lot of people might think I’m crazy, but I put nothing in my car except BP gas now. They have the disclaimers on the gas about “up to 10% ethanol” but my trouble light stays off much longer with it. Qtrip is death as far as I’m concerned. I talked to a Mechanical Engineer I work with and he told me Q has been caught multiple times with up to 20% in their mix.....anecdotal, for sure, but I know from experience when I started with BP a lot of that stopped.

Anything that needs a subsidy is BS. If it can’t survive on its own, it should die.


14 posted on 08/06/2012 10:29:40 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: thackney

“I broke down and bought a 4-cycle engine for the weed eater hoping that will help.”

Trust me. It will kill 4-cycles too.

See if you can buy non ethanol fuel at the local airport.


15 posted on 08/06/2012 10:29:55 AM PDT by logitech (Who's here so vile, that will not love his country? If any speak, for him I have offended)
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To: Gaffer
What I would do if I were you is to use what you have, but make doggone sure that you run-out whatever is left in the machine before you put it up for the season.

I live in the Houston area. The non-growing season is measured in hours, not days.

16 posted on 08/06/2012 10:33:18 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Gaffer
Also, I now use:

A marine grade stabilizer for our high humidity.

17 posted on 08/06/2012 10:35:41 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

Then I would feed it with just enough gas to make it run for what you need. It is a pain, but most times, I at least valve-off the tank (I installed shutoff valves from the tank to all my 4-cycle machines) and run out what’s in the carb. It is easier to replace a tank-valve hose or a gas cap than it is to pull a carb and rebuild it, especially if it is a diaphragm carb on a 2-cycle.


18 posted on 08/06/2012 10:36:58 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: thackney

“Ethanol” treatment? Does it add ethanol or does it neutralize ethanol? If it neutralizes the effects, this is PROOF ethanol is no good.


19 posted on 08/06/2012 10:38:47 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: nascarnation
I assume Brazil sugar cane ethanol is taking over.

Still pretty close to zero net imports from Brazil but it has been climbing for the past year.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MFENT_NUS-NBR_2&f=M

The end of 2011, we were sending them nearly 50,000 barrels a day of fuel ethanol.

20 posted on 08/06/2012 10:41:35 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Gaffer
Does it add ethanol or does it neutralize ethanol?

Neither, it inhibits the absorption of water but does not remove the oxygen content.

http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx

http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/faq.aspx#278

Q: What is the difference between STA-BIl Fuel Stabilizer, Marine Formula STA-BIL, and the new STA-BIL Ethanol Treatment products?

A: STA-BIL® Fuel Stabilizer is designed for use during STORAGE of any gasoline equipment or vehicle stored for 30 days or more, or used infrequently. It will keep gas fresh for 12 months, and help prevent corrosion, and gum and varnish formation. It is effective in all gasolines, including Ethanol blends, including E-85.

Marine Formula STA-BIL® Ethanol Treatment was designed for use at every fill up for marine engines (boats, jetskis) to protect against the damaging effects experienced when using Ethanol blended fuels -- including corrosion caused by water attraction, and fuel system plugging caused by deposit loosening.

New STA-BIL Ethanol Treatment is designed for use at every fill up for all gasoline automotive and small engines for protection against these same problems.

21 posted on 08/06/2012 10:47:13 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: arrdon

I didn’t spend more than 10 bucks and got my all my small engine problems fixed. Try Amzoil Quickshot for small engines, and PI for your vehicles.


22 posted on 08/06/2012 11:00:53 AM PDT by jurroppi1
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To: thackney

See my post #22. I much prefer the Amzoil product; it saved 3 small engines for me. I do drain the gas out of each at the end of the season though.


23 posted on 08/06/2012 11:07:01 AM PDT by jurroppi1
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To: jurroppi1

Any of these idiots checked the price of a bushel of corn lately. Hold on if you haven’t. Due to the drought the shortage of expected 30% loss in crops this year corn prices are skyrocketing. Add to that some asshat decided that we have to use 10% of that for fuel?

What a freaking genious.

Wait till you see the price of meat come October/November and December.


24 posted on 08/06/2012 11:54:53 AM PDT by VRWCarea51
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To: thackney

Thanks!


25 posted on 08/06/2012 12:17:50 PM PDT by Gaffer
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To: thackney

Watching the estimated MPG on my car’s dashboard, I can tell exactly the difference between 100% gas and 10% Ethanol/90% gas.

It drops from 24.9 to 22.3 (based upon the same route driven and was highly repeatable). Now it is no longer possible to buy 100% gas in my area.

It requires the choke on my snow blower to be closed by about 25% and an apparent power loss as it no longer throws the snow as far. It exhibits a significant loss of power in my motorcycle.

This Sunday there was a piece in the paper regarding marine engines being damaged by higher operating temperatures.

Somehow, someway the EPA must be stopped sabotaging the country.


26 posted on 08/06/2012 12:33:30 PM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: thackney

Go to your local airport or marina. That’s where you can purchase non-E gasoline. Or try these:
• TruFuel, in three varieties, is sold at Home Depot, Lowe’s, Walmart and other retailers. The two-cycle 50:1 gas/oil mix costs $5.48 a quart at Home Depot and Lowe’s, which also sells the 40:1 mixture online.

• At Sears, ethanol-free fuels in four-and two-cycle varieties are sold online and in stores. (Kmart also carries these products, all of which are made by TruSouth, maker of TruFuel.) The “pure” Craftsman gas costs $6.99 a quart, though you can lower that price to $5.81 a quart by buying a six-pack (the brand is Arnold, a division of outdoor-gear manufacturer MTD), sold by Wholesale Tools from the same website. Both the 50:1 two-cycle gas/oil mixture and the 40:1 two-cycle mixture cost $5.49 a quart.

• VP Racing Fuels sells SEF (Small Engine Fuel) in all three varieties through distributors, relatively small retailers, and the company’s website. Unlike the TruSouth product, which is 92-octane, SEF is 94. All three varieties are sold by the six-pack for $43.95, which comes out to about $7.33 per quart.

I’ve used TruFuel, but I sure hate paying $25/gallon for plain old pre-mixed gas/oil.


27 posted on 08/06/2012 12:51:13 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
$5.48 a quart

I could use regular gas and consider the weed-eater disposable and be money ahead.

28 posted on 08/06/2012 12:55:07 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: VRWCarea51

“Wait till you see the price of meat come October/November and December.”

Yeah, I have no advice for that... except, maybe eat pink slime?

BTW, I think we use more than 10% of our corn for fuel.


29 posted on 08/06/2012 12:58:50 PM PDT by jurroppi1
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To: VRWCarea51

Lean hogs for August delivery closed today at $88.850 per cwt on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. Leans hogs for December delivery closed at $73.150.


30 posted on 08/06/2012 1:12:43 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: thackney

You might have to go to the airport for gas.100 octane low lead.


31 posted on 08/06/2012 1:58:22 PM PDT by painter (Rebuild The America We love!)
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To: logitech
Trust me. It will kill 4-cycles too.

You are right.It killed my riding mower.

32 posted on 08/06/2012 2:08:22 PM PDT by painter (Rebuild The America We love!)
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To: painter

I’m content to use ethanol treatment additive rather than spend those kind of dollars.


33 posted on 08/06/2012 2:28:53 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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