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Norway recommends ‘symbolic’ circumcision
Jerusalem Post ^ | 8-8-12

Posted on 08/08/2012 3:52:25 PM PDT by SJackson

Ombudsman for children's rights proposes that Jews and Muslims replace male circumcision with a symbolic, nonsurgical ritual.

THE HAGUE - Norway’s ombudsman for children's rights has proposed that Jews and Muslim replace male circumcision with a symbolic, nonsurgical ritual.

Dr. Anne Lindboe told the newspaper Vart Land last month that circumcision in boys was a violation of a person’s right to decide over his own body. “Muslim and Jewish children are entitled to the same protection as all other children,“ she said. She added that the practice caused unnecessary pain and was medically unbeneficial.

Lindboe, a pediatrician, was appointed ombudsman in June. Her predecessor, Reidar Hjermann, proposed setting 15 as the minimum age for circumcision. According to Jewish religious law, Jewish babies must be circumcised when they are eight days old.

The children’s ombudsman is an independent governmental institution entrusted with safeguarding the rights of minors.

Ervin Kohn, president of The Jewish Community of Oslo, said that Norwegian Jews “will not be able to live in a society where circumcision is forbidden.” He noted that the mandate of Norway’s children’s ombudsman did not extend to devising Jewish rituals. Norway has a Jewish community of about 700.

In June, a spokesperson for Norway’s Center Party, which has 11 out of 169 seats in parliament, proposed a ban on circumcision in babies.


TOPICS: Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antisemitism; circumcision; europeanunion; israel; jews; norway; totalitarianism; tyranny
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1 posted on 08/08/2012 3:52:34 PM PDT by SJackson
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

Once upon a time the government felt those few Jews of their tiny population who couldn't flee to Sweden or England might be more comfortable at Auschwitz and Birkenau. It's still a tiny population, probably time to leave, though not to Sweden or England.

2 posted on 08/08/2012 3:59:11 PM PDT by SJackson (I used to eat a lot of natural foods until I learned that most people people die of natural causes)
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To: SJackson

Well, on the one hand, she’s right that it is a disgusting mutilation. And on the other hand, way to drive the Muslims out of Norway. We can call this “the penis wars”.


3 posted on 08/08/2012 4:00:25 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: SJackson
How will they enforce such a law?

The rituals are done not by doctors but by clergy.

If they make it a requirement for doctors to report circumcisions after the fact when they are discovered during routine medical visits the Muslims will simply only go to Muslim doctors who will ignore the law.

The only time the circumcisions will be discovered is when the child is seen in emergency situations.

4 posted on 08/08/2012 4:08:03 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: SJackson
I am sure that ear piercings, tattoos, and abortions are not allowed as they are medically not required (/sarcasm)

Political correctness is just soooooo wrong

5 posted on 08/08/2012 4:09:01 PM PDT by Robert357 (D.Rather "Hoist with his own petard!" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223916/posts)
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To: kabumpo

Speak for yourself. I’m circumcised and I’m glad I am.


6 posted on 08/08/2012 4:11:31 PM PDT by RingerSIX (My wife and I took an AIDS vaccine that they offer down at our Church.)
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To: Robert357; SJackson

And I’m sure they don’t allow “sexual reassignment” surgeries, face-lifts, breast implants, or artificial reproduction techniques. None of those treats an illness.


7 posted on 08/08/2012 4:13:00 PM PDT by Tax-chick (If you can't say anything nice, have some more wine.)
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To: SJackson

Along the same lines, they could demand that the Jews replace genuine religious services with a symbolic, nonspiritual ritual. I doubt that any decent person would comply with a government demand that they violate their religious beliefs.


8 posted on 08/08/2012 4:14:38 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Tax-chick

And I’m certain they haven’t banned urinals and required men to pee sitting down. (Of course, the revenge is to continue to pee standing up...with the toilet seat down for maximum effect.)


9 posted on 08/08/2012 4:20:08 PM PDT by twister881
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To: SJackson
Dr. Smegma of the Clean Naughty Bits Clinic (CNBC...oops!) disagrees with the Norway ombudsman regarding the desirability and positive health effects of circumcision.
10 posted on 08/08/2012 4:24:06 PM PDT by twister881
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To: RingerSIX

As a woman, I am of course speaking for myself, and my experience is by definition more informed than yours (assuming that you are heterosexual).


11 posted on 08/08/2012 4:24:40 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: RingerSIX

As a woman, I am of course speaking for myself, and my experience is by definition more informed than yours (assuming that you are heterosexual).


12 posted on 08/08/2012 4:24:57 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: SJackson

“...was a violation of a person’s right to decide over his own body.”

If this is accepted as a legitimate reason then you can bet this reasoning will be used to put an end to age of consent laws. I would not be surprised to find that the gay lobby was heavily supportive of the movement to outlaw circumcision.


13 posted on 08/08/2012 4:31:24 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: SJackson

>>>“Muslim and Jewish children are entitled to the same protection as all other children,“ she said. She added that the practice caused unnecessary pain and was medically unbeneficial.<<<

Which is the same situation that Chick-Fil-A finds itself confronting.

In both cases, the state has decided what actions are morally permissible despite the religious beliefs of those involved. Circumcision is a key ritual element to being Jewish. It’s not just slicing off the foreskin. I’m assuming that the Moslems feel the same way.

Is there psychological pain involved with telling children that they’re eating the flesh and drinking the blood of their Messiah? Is it necessary? Apparently a bureaucrat in Norway knows what is necessary and what isn’t.

The Baha’i Faith has a ritual fast from sunrise to sunset that takes place every March. Could be painful; hunger is no laughing matter. You need to eat. Not eating for 12 hours every day for one month might be medically unbeneficial. Is it necessary? The state is taking it on itself to make that decision.

Not to mention the medical lack of necessity of Native Americans ingesting peyote and wandering the landscape finding visions, or being forced to sit in a cross-legged position for hours seeking dharma with a Buddhist monk.

It is strange indeed to watch Western civilization evolve towards totalitarianism, taking baby steps toward tyranny. This is just another step. I guess if you’re one of the remaining Jews in Norway, you can practice your religion, as long as the authorities approve the practice.

God help us.


14 posted on 08/08/2012 4:31:24 PM PDT by redpoll
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To: SJackson

Symbolic? “Here, pull my finger.”


15 posted on 08/08/2012 4:34:06 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: lastchance
If this is accepted as a legitimate reason then you can bet this reasoning will be used to put an end to age of consent laws

And as an unintended consequence, mandatory vacinations.

16 posted on 08/08/2012 4:39:32 PM PDT by SJackson (I used to eat a lot of natural foods until I learned that most people people die of natural causes)
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To: redpoll

Yes. Certainly the government could ban fasting for minors.


17 posted on 08/08/2012 4:41:02 PM PDT by SJackson (I used to eat a lot of natural foods until I learned that most people people die of natural causes)
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To: SJackson

Jewish women don’t get cervical cancer.

Hmm...Maybe Merck wants to sell their vaccine in Norway?


18 posted on 08/08/2012 4:42:29 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: kabumpo

Keep your hands off my d*&^.


19 posted on 08/08/2012 4:51:54 PM PDT by RingerSIX (My wife and I took an AIDS vaccine that they offer down at our Church.)
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To: SJackson

20 posted on 08/08/2012 4:54:12 PM PDT by RingerSIX (My wife and I took an AIDS vaccine that they offer down at our Church.)
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To: RingerSIX
Speak for yourself. I’m circumcised and I’m glad I am.

Do you advise your uncircumcised friends (that you know of) to have it done? What are the benefits they would experience?

21 posted on 08/08/2012 4:55:02 PM PDT by Misterioso (They tried to get me to hate white people, but someone would always come along and spoil it. - Monk)
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To: SJackson

Too much creamed herring has rotted their minds.


22 posted on 08/08/2012 4:55:57 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: kabumpo

“As a woman, I am of course speaking for myself, and my experience is by definition more informed than yours (assuming that you are heterosexual).”

Hey, let me hip you here sweetie. When you are having sex, there’s this whole other person there too. Like, a thinking, intelligent, fully sentient being! And they even have an experience too, one -just- as informative as yours! LOL


23 posted on 08/08/2012 4:57:41 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: RingerSIX

I am not circumsized and wish I was.

At 70 when shrinkage sets in there is waaaay too much skin hanging over. It’s like a spray nozzle., makes a helluva mess.


24 posted on 08/08/2012 5:00:34 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Misterioso

I don’t advise anyone anything about what to do with their penises, as it’s none of my business.


25 posted on 08/08/2012 5:02:23 PM PDT by RingerSIX (My wife and I took an AIDS vaccine that they offer down at our Church.)
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To: RingerSIX

Can you describe the benefits that make you glad?


26 posted on 08/08/2012 5:09:59 PM PDT by Misterioso (They tried to get me to hate white people, but someone would always come along and spoil it. - Monk)
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To: Misterioso

Everything you ever wanted to know about it,

http://www.circinfo.net/


27 posted on 08/08/2012 5:23:50 PM PDT by Snowyman
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To: RingerSIX; kabumpo

I’m not circumcised, and I’m very glad I’m not.

Circumcision is child abuse, and kids should be allowed to sue their parents and whoever mutilated them.

If when the child grows up they want to be circumcised, then it’s their own decision.


28 posted on 08/08/2012 5:26:14 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Snowyman

I know all about it. I just want the OP to back up his boast.


29 posted on 08/08/2012 5:28:57 PM PDT by Misterioso (They tried to get me to hate white people, but someone would always come along and spoil it. - Monk)
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To: DesertRhino

You miss the point completely. You know only what it feels like to be circumcised. I know what it feels like to be with someone circumcised and circumcised. The difference is significant. You have no idea what the experience is like with an unmutilated organ.


30 posted on 08/08/2012 5:34:54 PM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: SJackson
Apparently, they have never lived in really hot parts of the world. Circumcism prevents a lot of diseases. There are some really good reasons to have your children circumcised.
31 posted on 08/08/2012 5:44:35 PM PDT by fini
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To: SJackson

Ban circumcision? They will have to kill me first.


32 posted on 08/08/2012 5:58:57 PM PDT by ari-freedom
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To: Age of Reason

“If when the child grows up they want to be circumcised, then it’s their own decision.”

No, it is G-d’s decision that Jewish babies are to be circumcised at 8 days old.


33 posted on 08/08/2012 6:03:12 PM PDT by ari-freedom
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To: twister881

A little unkind to the janitors, although I understand the “symbolic” intent.


34 posted on 08/08/2012 6:09:00 PM PDT by Tax-chick (If you can't say anything nice, have some more wine.)
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To: Tax-chick

Abortion.

That actually kills babies but it’s OK in Norway because it doesn’t target the Jews.


35 posted on 08/08/2012 6:11:56 PM PDT by ari-freedom
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To: ari-freedom

But what about a person’s right to decide over his own body? What about procedures that cause pain and are medically unnecessary? I’m, like, totally adrift in a sea of leftist antisemitic cognitive dissonance!


36 posted on 08/08/2012 6:16:31 PM PDT by Tax-chick (If you can't say anything nice, have some more wine.)
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To: kabumpo
Well, on the one hand, she’s right that it is a disgusting mutilation.

That's simply her opinion, and you simply share her opinion.

37 posted on 08/08/2012 6:22:11 PM PDT by Isabel C.
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To: kabumpo
You my dear, have never seen the “creeping crud” grow on the penis under the foreskin. It is nasty and hard to heal. I trained in the swamps for weeks at a time. The skin diseases we acquired caused our corpsmen and doctors all kinds of problems, and we did not like it much either. There are some really good reasons to be circumcised.
38 posted on 08/08/2012 6:47:12 PM PDT by fini
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To: SJackson

-——Genesis 17:9-10 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.-——

Not circumcising your male Jewish child breaks the bond of the covenant...

-——Genesis 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.


39 posted on 08/08/2012 6:49:00 PM PDT by Popman (In a place you only dream of Where your soul is always free)
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To: Age of Reason

40 posted on 08/08/2012 7:24:28 PM PDT by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
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To: SJackson

>>>Yes. Certainly the government could ban fasting for minors.<<<

Certainly. Maybe the government will allow everything else on my list. An omnipotent state granting boons to the peasants is not liberty.

Not that Europe (excluding Britain) has much experience or appreciation for limited government. I like liberty. Sad to see how it is faring these days.


41 posted on 08/08/2012 7:29:47 PM PDT by redpoll
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To: SJackson

Well, I would have preferred not to have it done when I was a day old. But, on the other hand God told Abraham that was part of the deal. And who is Norway to argue with God?


42 posted on 08/08/2012 7:58:55 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (I just hate our government. All of them. Republican and Democrat.)
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To: Isabel C.

True, dat. It’s hardly unknown for parents to make medical decisions for their children that may involve ‘mutilation’ and scar the body.


43 posted on 08/08/2012 8:00:47 PM PDT by Amberdawn
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To: kabumpo

There are tens of millions of women who disagree with your opinion. And I’ve had their unsolicited opinion given to me more than once, both here, and in Europe. Without getting too ripe here, they had a few very specific reasons for why they preferred cut, or in your parlance “mutilated”.
I had never really thought about it, and was rather surprised at their reasons.
Pleasantly.


44 posted on 08/08/2012 8:08:27 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Age of Reason

Your logica is insane. The child did not create himself, and without his parents he would not survive a week. He owes his life to them and is obligated therefore to obey. But you say, within reason, and with due respect to his rights. And who is to decide what those rights are? why the state of course. he becomes the property of the state, which is free to do with him what they decide is best.


45 posted on 08/08/2012 8:20:27 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Vermont Lt

Indeed, and of course,”Norway” is in the end no more than a few bags of guts not unlike ourselves.


46 posted on 08/08/2012 8:22:57 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: SJackson
Don't circumcise your son shortly after he is born, but it is fine to rip him to bloody shreds, as long as he is still in the womb.
47 posted on 08/08/2012 10:22:27 PM PDT by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
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To: kabumpo; RingerSIX

Kabumpo, no one here doubts your wide spead experience.

It’s pretty apparent just from your posts.


48 posted on 08/09/2012 7:43:26 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Vermont Lt

“And who is Norway to argue with God?”

Pagans returning to their roots.


49 posted on 08/09/2012 7:45:06 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: kabumpo

Circumcision is a decision made by loving parents on behalf of their sons. The logic of having a boy wait until the procedure would be more involved and painful does not work. People have the right to decide what to eat, as well, but we don’t starve them until they are capable of making that decision. We have our children vaccinated against diseases— should we refuse to do so that, if they survive, they can decide?


50 posted on 08/09/2012 8:14:31 AM PDT by NCLaw441
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