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Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue (an oldie but goodie)
Mouseguns.com ^ | 7/13/06 | Deadmeat2

Posted on 08/10/2012 10:44:12 AM PDT by LibWhacker

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To: Pollster1
I do the same thing with my 12 ga. house gun, which is loaded with #1 buck all the way down to the second to last shell, which is 00 buck and the very last shell, which is a 12 ga. slug. I figure if my attacker hasn't gone down after all that, my hat's off to him! ;-)

BTW, what is it with #1 buck? Have they quit making it? I'm having a heck of a time finding it in any kind of decent quantity (say 500 shells). I'm guessing I'll be able to load it myself if I buy the equipment, no?

41 posted on 08/10/2012 11:58:48 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: Dead Corpse

Sounds like you need a progressive rig. I haven’t done that kind of volume since the Hillary primer scare back in ‘94.


42 posted on 08/10/2012 12:01:19 PM PDT by jboot (OPSEC. It's a killjoy, but it may save your life someday.)
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To: Joe 6-pack
Because the .357 sig is a necked case in a semi-auto pistol. FTF's and stove pipes are pretty common from what I've heard. Also, .357 sig /= .357 magnum for power. 158gr at over 1400 fps is a lot more energy than the enemic 147gr at 1200 fps. Even at a more comparable 128gr, the .357 Magnum clocks in an extra 250 ft/lbs over the sig.

It's like the V6 vs V8 argument. A bigger block will ALWAYS produce more horsepower. No matter how you try to tart up the smaller motor.

Size and speed count in the ballistics world. More of one at the expense of the other will not have the results of one that has a good balance of BOTH.

43 posted on 08/10/2012 12:03:22 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: LibWhacker

Reloading is not difficult if you have the right temperament.
You need to be cautious and methodical in your approach. Following instructions is important.

A medium priced single stage press will reload almost everything except the largest rifle cartridges. You need a heavier press for the large ones.

I’m partial to RCBS, but Lee, Redding, Dillon and others are just as good.

Get a good reloading book & read up on it before buying anything.


44 posted on 08/10/2012 12:04:23 PM PDT by jimbobfoster
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To: jboot
I try to shoot once or twice a month. Mostly out at my in-laws farm. No one cares if I'm drawing from the hip, moving while shooting, doing double-taps, etc...

I'd love to get into 3-gun once my kids are a bit older. My Daughter has expressed an interest in shooting an AR and I've started picking up various pieces to put one together for her. I had an A2 upper and some other parts laying around that I can use.

45 posted on 08/10/2012 12:07:04 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: jboot

Oh, thanks for clarifying that for me. I’ve looked at the M1 Garand program before. It seemed like you had to jump through so many hoops, I figured what the heck. Maybe buy a new one through Springfield? Don’t they have a model called the M1A1? No, I have wanted one for a long, long time, but guns are sooooo darn expensive. Thanks again.


46 posted on 08/10/2012 12:10:19 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: jimbobfoster

Wise advice. I’ll do that. It’s going to take me a while to decide which brand to go with. It’s not like I can call up my Consumers’ Reports account. It’ll be a tough decision, I can see that. And it’s going to be made more difficult by my utter lack of experience (well, I helped a friend reload some shotgun shells over 40 years ago, but that hardly counts now) and basic knowledge in the subject. Thank you.


47 posted on 08/10/2012 12:16:26 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: GBA
“The best, smoothest, easiest to shoot well pistol I've tried so far is a buddy's S&W .357 magnum.”

___

LUV mine, Colt Python 4” loaded with win Super X 145gr Silver tip HP and a speed loader with 6 more of the same. VERY accurate piece and I shoot it well. Traded a fellow a Star model BM, 3 mags and about 1000 rnds of practice hand loads for it. Told the fellow he was screwing himself, he told me the Colt kicked too hard and made too much noise (Pu**y), once in a while you get lucky. The Colt was mint, The star was well fired. “My cold dead fingers, etc.etc.”

48 posted on 08/10/2012 12:20:19 PM PDT by mongo141 (Revolution ver. 2.0, just a matter of when, not a matter of if!)
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To: LibWhacker
Then maybe I could buy that FN Five-seveN I've got my eye on! :-)

The thing I find most intriguing about this round is the big, black, hole you find when you go looking for first hand reports on it's effectiveness.

Lots of hearsay and naysay available from "expert" opinion peddlers, but damn little in the way of After Action Reports, or terminal ballistics out there for a round used by so many LE agencies and foreign military organizations.

It would seem to me the best way to employ this round is to shoot "at" something, as opposed to just trying to score hits on the BG.

49 posted on 08/10/2012 12:21:07 PM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: LibWhacker
Springfield no longer offers M1 Garands, unless there is a custom service that I am not aware of. The only company I can think of selling "new" Garands is Fulton Armory. If you click the picture of the Garand that I linked above, you will go to their web page. They are expensive, but then again they will last several lifetimes, unlike an AR.

CMP is a good program and they still have good guns for (slightly) under $1k. You can clear most of their hoops by joining the Garand Collector's Association, which as far as I can tell exists for the sole purpose of helping folks get guns from CMP.

50 posted on 08/10/2012 12:22:09 PM PDT by jboot (OPSEC. It's a killjoy, but it may save your life someday.)
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To: LibWhacker

“... I can tell you that when the chips are down, there’s nothing that beats a 12-gauge...”

Thank you.
A 12Ga. loaded with double-0 buckshot is my preferred means of investigating noises at night.


51 posted on 08/10/2012 12:25:36 PM PDT by BuffaloJack (Repeal Obamacare, the CITIZENSHIP TAX)
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To: Dead Corpse
"Because the .357 sig is a necked case in a semi-auto pistol. FTF's and stove pipes are pretty common from what I've heard."

That's not been my experience with actually owning and firing one.

"Also, .357 sig /= .357 magnum for power. 158gr at over 1400 fps is a lot more energy than the enemic 147gr at 1200 fps. Even at a more comparable 128gr, the .357 Magnum clocks in an extra 250 ft/lbs over the sig."

Keep in mind, the The Sig was designed specifically w/ replicating the performance of a 125 gr. JHP, out of a 4" revolver. It comes very close to doing so. Naturally, the revolver will have the advantage with heavier (i.e. longer bullets) because the autoloading round needs to be seated deeper impacting powder volume. With that said, the .357 magnum has to contend with a barrel/cylinder gap the autoloader doesn't, so with lighter bullets and shorter barrels, the Sig round holds it's own, and it does so with less powder and more efficiency.p> "It's like the V6 vs V8 argument. A bigger block will ALWAYS produce more horsepower. No matter how you try to tart up the smaller motor."

And there are always trade offs - A V-6 is virtually always going to be more fuel efficient, and an autoloader is generally going to hold more rounds.

"Size and speed count in the ballistics world. More of one at the expense of the other will not have the results of one that has a good balance of BOTH."

And when it comes to the broad extremes in handgun ballistics (say from the .25 ACP to the .500 S&W), both the .357 Sig and the .357 magnum are so close as to be virtually negligible.

52 posted on 08/10/2012 12:31:26 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: BobinIL

I agree. FMJ on a 9mm round is for range practice only. Useless as a self defense round. JHP +P is the only way to rock and roll when carrying a 9mm outside amongst the Zombies.


53 posted on 08/10/2012 12:38:59 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (As long a hundred of us remain alive we will never on any condition be brought under Obama's rule.)
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To: PubliusMM

Another great response! Thank you. Very informative. I can see I’ve got my homework cut out for me!

Really confused about which brand to go with now, but I’ll figure it out. Thanks again.


54 posted on 08/10/2012 12:42:40 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker

You can nearlyeveyting you need from Midwayusa.com.

Lee Anniversary Breechlog Challenger kit. just about everything you need. 109.95

Shell holders, get a full set
Dies for each individual caliber. 25.00 or so.

empty cartridges or if you have been saving them your empty cartridges, they will work perfectly.

Lead or copper jacketed bullets
Powder (see below)
Primers

You will probably pay back the cost of the equipment in the first loading session. The equipment is then free.

Powder: Go to Hodgdon.com and they have loading data Data Center for all your calibers. Follow it exactly.

As for how to use it, read the directions several times and then load.


55 posted on 08/10/2012 12:43:10 PM PDT by buffaloguy
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To: Dead Corpse
Sounds like heaven. I am fed up with gun ranges. The emphasis has moved from safety to CYA at all costs. It seems like every time I shoot I get hassled. My offenses have included:

1. Leaving my range bag open when I shoot.
2. Having a gun case that is too long.
3. Firing an "homemade" firearm (I was shooting a Mosin Nagant).
4. Making the range officer "nervous." I pressed him on this, and he accused me of waving a pistol around over my head. The problem was, I didn't even have a pistol with me.
5. Picking up my spent brass. I actually got ejected from a range once for picking up my own spent cases.

This didn't happen at podunk ranges...three of these were at the NRA range in Fairfax, VA. So shooting on a farm sounds like bliss. I hope your daughter enjoys her gun. I would have given parts of my body to have had an AR when I was younger.

56 posted on 08/10/2012 12:44:47 PM PDT by jboot (OPSEC. It's a killjoy, but it may save your life someday.)
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To: LibWhacker

It is exrtremely easy to reload. I wish that I had started decades before I did.


57 posted on 08/10/2012 12:45:26 PM PDT by buffaloguy
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To: buffaloguy
I wish that I had started decades before I did.

When I was 12, my dad told me that in lieu of my chores I could prep cases for him a couple nights a week. I jumped at that one! Befoe long he had me doing all the operations. Been reloading ever since.

58 posted on 08/10/2012 12:50:23 PM PDT by jboot (OPSEC. It's a killjoy, but it may save your life someday.)
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To: BobinIL
The problem with this article and his issue with the 9mm is that most gangbangers are using the cheap walmart ammo. there is a huge difference between 115gn FMJ CCI blazer and Federal Hydrashock 147grn JHPs. in a 9mm. Flame away

No flames from me. This article is basically the same "45's rule/9mm's drool" article that we have all seen before, although the perspective of the morgue is a new twist. And to your point, you are exactly right ... 9mm +p or +p+ JHPs by CorBon or Federal are a world away from standard 9mm ball in terms of terminal ballistics.

And as always the moral of the story is, "shoot what you are most comfortable and skilled with."

59 posted on 08/10/2012 12:54:26 PM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: jboot
I am fed up with gun ranges. The emphasis has moved from safety to CYA at all costs. It seems like every time I shoot I get hassled.

Tell me about it.

I dropped my previous range membership when the dumbasses told me I couldn't shoot my Thomson Encore on the rifle range because it was a pistol, and I couldn't shoot it on the pistol range because it was a .308.

Thankfully, I found another range run by someone with a functioning brain.

60 posted on 08/10/2012 12:56:00 PM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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