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Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue (an oldie but goodie)
Mouseguns.com ^ | 7/13/06 | Deadmeat2

Posted on 08/10/2012 10:44:12 AM PDT by LibWhacker

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To: Joe 6-pack
And when it comes to the broad extremes in handgun ballistics (say from the .25 ACP to the .500 S&W), both the .357 Sig and the .357 magnum are so close as to be virtually negligible.

125gr in .357 magnum is 1600fps/710ft.lbs. 125gr Sig is 1425fps/584ft.lbs. Smallest load for my 10mm is a 135gr that clocks in at a blistering 1700fps/866ft.lbs.

Those are not negligible differences. Ok, well... Not in my book they aren't. ;-)

61 posted on 08/10/2012 1:03:46 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: LibWhacker; Allegra; big'ol_freeper; Lil'freeper; TrueKnightGalahad; blackie; Cincinatus' Wife; ...
While I love my .45 cal Thompson, I really want... a .75 Recoilless like “Slippery Jim” DiGriz--
62 posted on 08/10/2012 1:05:24 PM PDT by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: papertyger
OMG! That is a worst-case stupid scenario.

The range I visit now doesn't hassle me but it does make you shoot seated with the gun inside a dorky "sound abatement system" which is a plywood box lined with eggcrate foam. Not very tactically realistic, but at least they don't hassle me. I'm working on a farmer to let me build a range on a fallow field of his. Until then, I won't be shootng much.

63 posted on 08/10/2012 1:08:37 PM PDT by jboot (OPSEC. It's a killjoy, but it may save your life someday.)
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To: MHGinTN

Thanks for the tips, that’s pretty much how I wrap up my practice sessions too.

I just wish I had the opportunity to have more sessions to do it with ;(


64 posted on 08/10/2012 1:10:08 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: buffaloguy

Oh, thank you so much... Good hard concrete information on where to buy and what to buy, which I absolutely need and appreciate. I’ll check ‘em out. Thanks again.


65 posted on 08/10/2012 1:11:23 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: jboot
Wow... That sounds pretty silly. Especially if the RO is so completely clueless about military vintage firearms...

I've been on ranges that don't allow scavaging of spent brass. Most of them make money by reselling the brass they pick up at the end of the day. I don't normally go back to those places. Same for the "1 shot every 3 seconds" rule. This one is so completely subjective as to be utterly ineffective. Further, a lot of the training I like doing requires multiple hits on target and fast reloads.

When I do precision work, I can go minutes between shots. Considering I have had 10 shot groups at 200yrds you can cover with a dime, I think I'm doing something right. ;-)

My Daughter is turning 9 here in two weeks. She might get this one for her 10th birthday if she starts shooting with me regularly. We'll see...

66 posted on 08/10/2012 1:18:29 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: LibWhacker
BTW, what is it with #1 buck? Have they quit making it? I'm having a heck of a time finding it in any kind of decent quantity (say 500 shells). I'm guessing I'll be able to load it myself if I buy the equipment, no?

I think, like you said, they quit making #1. There's probably so much price pressure with online shopping that they can't afford to make and stock too many different options.

67 posted on 08/10/2012 1:25:04 PM PDT by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: LibWhacker
M1 is an excellent rifle. The Garand has an 8-round enbloc clip that is fed into the internal magazine. 1791 apparel has a t-shirt that illustrates this nicely. "Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Ping!"

The M1A has an external magazine that is fed in from the bottom. Common sizes for this is 5- 10- and 20- rounds.

Prices vary widely depending on options, stock, trigger, and barrel. Low end in the $600 range up to thousands for the National Match with all the trimmings.

68 posted on 08/10/2012 1:28:59 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: Dead Corpse
Smallest load for my 10mm is a 135gr that clocks in at a blistering 1700fps/866ft.lbs.

Wow! Is that for a Glock? I have a G29 and the hottest round I've purchased for it is the CorBon Hunting 180 Grain Soft Point, 1300 fps, 676ftlbs. Had no idea the Glock could tolerate 1700fps/866ft.lbs!

69 posted on 08/10/2012 1:30:12 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: Dead Corpse
"Those are not negligible differences. Ok, well... Not in my book they aren't. ;-)"

As far as statistical comparisons go, by the numbers, yes, they show apparent differences in the respective performance of the cartridges. I would argue the differences would be considered "highly significant" if you could find a person who would look at them and say, "OK, I guess with numbers like that, you can shoot me with a .357 Sig, but not a.357 magnum or a .10mm!"

And yes...as "different" as those performance numbers are, when placed against the broader spectrum of handgun ballistics, they fall within a relatively narrow band of one another (even more so when you exclude the 10mm and run the .357s head to head).

If you don't believe me, There was an interesting study from about a year ago by Greg Ellifritz:

"Ayoob took his critics to task. He suggested that if people didn't believe his data, they should collect their own and do their own analysis. That made sense to me. So that's just what I did. "

Among the numbers he explored were % 1 shot stops, Avg. # of hits until incapacitated, % fatal shootings, etc. Essentially, while he concludes that some handgun rounds are somewhat better than others, they are generally close enough in performance across the boards that one's best choice is a rifle :-)

70 posted on 08/10/2012 1:30:12 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: LibWhacker
I have an older EAA Witness. Full size, Wonder Finish. Fully supported chamber. Wolff recoil and hammer springs. I've polished the feed ramp, sear, trigger plunger, and trigger bar engagement surfaces. Flipped the mag catch for my Left-handed shooting style. I may spring for a Hennings trigger kit for it and see if I can't get some of the creep out of the trigger.

I've worked up a half dozen loads from 135gr to 200gr. For self defense and for steel/bowling pin matches. My 200gr loads poke along at 1000fps, but will drop an 8" steel with authority.

I'm not a big fan of the "drastic plastic". The unsupported chamber leaves me a bit nervous. Especially after seeing a Glock "kaboom" first hand.

71 posted on 08/10/2012 1:45:16 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: Bender2

Why can’t we live in a world where liberty, the 2nd Amendment, and a totally free enterprise/market system ruled the day? I’d give every gun and every possession I own to live in such a place and gladly start over from scratch, as old as I am. Guns like that, you could probably get for a song in such a system. But in this hand basket, it’d literally bust the bank for old LibWhacker, if he could even get one.


72 posted on 08/10/2012 1:46:14 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: Joe 6-pack
Yep. In pistols it pretty much comes down to actually being comfortable enough with what your are shooting that you can deploy it effectively in an OMGSHTFWTFBBQ situation.

Evidence from the Morgue suggests that mid-range calibers with mid to high-end performance are the most effective.

I don't want to have to count on my ability to pull off an eyeball shot with a .380 ACP, so I carry something big enough to blow chunks out of a person no matter where I hit them.

To each their own...

73 posted on 08/10/2012 1:50:30 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: LibWhacker

You probably will also need:

Lee case length gauge (cheap) for trimming brass
Calipers (harbor freight)

Sign up at www.castboolis.gunloads.com and read and post questions.


74 posted on 08/10/2012 2:01:44 PM PDT by buffaloguy
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To: Dead Corpse
"Yep. In pistols it pretty much comes down to actually being comfortable enough with what your are shooting that you can deploy it effectively in an OMGSHTFWTFBBQ situation."

Agreed. My only point was that while the .357 mag may seem vastly superior to a .357 Sig based on some fps here, and some ft./lbs. there on a ballistics table, the table at the morgue says they are, for all intents and purposes, pretty much identical.

75 posted on 08/10/2012 2:02:05 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Dead Corpse

There’s also .357 SIG (available in Glock), preferred by air marshals for one-stop-shot with minimal penetration.


76 posted on 08/10/2012 2:22:19 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: jboot

From my research, an M4 SBR (~11.5”) with a can seems an optimal compromise.


77 posted on 08/10/2012 2:24:18 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: LibWhacker

bfl


78 posted on 08/10/2012 2:43:30 PM PDT by VRW Conspirator (We were the tea party before there was a tea party. - Jim Robinson)
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To: ctdonath2

You can keep the noise reducer, and I’m running mine as a CMMG ‘dialable’ piston set up. Had to remove a whole loop from the buffer tube spring, but it runs like a sewing machine now. But for one-handed shooting, the Bushmaster 5.56 pistol in carbon fiber is the cat’s meow.


79 posted on 08/10/2012 2:50:51 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: LibWhacker

Go to an Appleseed clinic and then join Appleseed (RWVA) for $20. That will qualify you to have a Garand sent to your door for @ $550. See my tag.


80 posted on 08/10/2012 3:05:52 PM PDT by ebshumidors ( Marksmanship and YOUR heritage http://www.appleseedinfo.org)
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