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St. Paul Cops Shoot Dog in Wrong-Door Raid, Force Handcuffed Kids to Sit Near the Corpse
Reason Magazine ^ | |Aug. 10, 2012 | Mike Riggs

Posted on 08/10/2012 7:25:05 PM PDT by george76

police officers who conducted a wrong-door raid on their home shot their dog, and then forced their three handcuffed children to sit near the dead pet while officers ransacked the home. The lawsuit, which names Ramsey County, the Dakota County Drug Task Force, and the DEA, and asks for $30 million in civil rights violations and punitive damages after a wrong-door raid, also claims that the officers kicked the children and deprived one of them of her diabetes medication.

The suit also alleges that one of the lead officers with the task force "provided false information" in order to get a warrant to raid the Franco family's home.

...

Shawn Scovill of the taskforce may have raided the wrong house, but he didn't want to let the opportunity to rifle through someone's things go to waste. So he and his team ransacked the Franco house

...

Since the DEA is named in the suit, the Francos' legal team will likely find itself going head-to-head with Obama administration lawyers, who argued a similar case earlier this year before the Ninth Circuit. Short recap of the proceedings: The DOJ sought a summary dismissal of a lawsuit filed against seven DEA agents for their rough treatment of a family of four--mother, father, two very young daughters--during a wrong-door raid conducted during the Bush administration. The Ninth Circuit, denied the DOJ's request for a summary dismissal, and drew a bright line between how adults are treated during raids, and how children are treated during raids.

(Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Minnesota
KEYWORDS: animalcruelty; assholecop; biggestgangintown; copsoutofcontrol; dea; deaddog; deadleoswalking; dog; doggieping; donutwatch; faciststate; govtabuse; injusticedepartment; leo; militarizedpolice; shotthedog; stripsearch; thugwithabadge
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1 posted on 08/10/2012 7:25:11 PM PDT by george76
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To: george76

At least no one there got a tampon ripped from ones happy place


2 posted on 08/10/2012 7:27:03 PM PDT by al baby (“If Barack Obama has a Harvard law degree, he didn’t earn that. Somebody else made that happen.”)
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To: george76

God bless those kids, and punish the bast*rds for what they did to the Dog.

People are getting really sick of this sh*t.


3 posted on 08/10/2012 7:27:03 PM PDT by Shadowstrike (Be polite, Be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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To: al baby

happy place?


4 posted on 08/10/2012 7:29:52 PM PDT by ladyjane
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To: Shadowstrike

Time to train more Attack Cats.


5 posted on 08/10/2012 7:33:27 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
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To: george76
Few things have made me angrier than this story has.

I fear power in the hands of fools, especially the very stupid ones with attitude.

Imagine the crap storm that would rain down on you and your world if you did what they did and you would deserve it.

Cops, thanks to their position of power and authority, should be held to even higher and more stringent standards, especially when they cause such harm.

I pray that this story has the same impact on others as it has on me and that grows into the necessary outrage to put a stop to this crap. These stories are far too common.

If you need a personal warning about the police state being created, take this story to heart, then demand that it stops!

These people would easily march you into the showers when the time comes.

6 posted on 08/10/2012 7:38:55 PM PDT by GBA
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To: Shadowstrike
People are getting really sick of this sh*t.

The novel "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross features a man (Henry Bowman) who is unfairly targeted by the police (BATF, actually). Doesn't end well for the govvies.

I think we will see something like that within 12 months, if Obama is re-elected (which I consider likely).

7 posted on 08/10/2012 7:40:03 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Roger Taney? Not a bad Chief Justice. John Roberts? A really awful Chief Justice.)
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To: george76

So what if a few children are traumatized for life? The important question: Did all the cops go home safely to their families after breaking down an innocent family’s door, killing their pet, and destroying their house?


8 posted on 08/10/2012 7:47:07 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Liberalism. Ideas so great they have to be mandatory.-FReeper Osage Orange)
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To: ladyjane

There’s a thread about 6-10 down that’ll explain it.


9 posted on 08/10/2012 7:50:43 PM PDT by TaMoDee ( Lassez les bons temps rouler dans les 2012! Allez Pack!)
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To: george76

I know police work is demanding, but no law enforcement should ever break into a home until they have double and triple checked that it is the correct residence. There are too many such stories and some have the worst possible endings.


10 posted on 08/10/2012 7:52:00 PM PDT by Will88
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To: george76

Ever since the so-called War On Drugs (WOD) and, now, the War On Terror (WOT) — actually more like the War On The Bill of Rights) — began, our civilian cops have been undergoing MILITARY training. The “authorities” gentle it down with the prefix “Para” but those “dynamic entry” teams would be more at home in Baghdad than Boston. (Well, unless they hit John Kerry’s front door at 3 am, Boston might not be a good example.) Watch “Dallas SWAT” for a dose of how it works.

I have long thought that that sort of activity within the ranks of otherwise “civilian” law enforcement was a push by those with an agenda to bypass posse comitatus for purposes BEYOND the WOD/WOT and other currently criminal behavior.

That the mass of that shrinking minority – the American citizen (thank you Mr. Open Borders Bush and Total Amnesty Obama) – has NOT objected to this erosion of personal liberty does NOT bode well for the future of freedom here.

I wonder what sort of body count of innocent grandmothers and others it will take before folks begin to grasp that they might be more at risk from the cops than the criminals and bring the situation back under control?

My Uncle Bob (R.I.P.) would be horrified.

My Uncle Bob was a 30-year veteran of a police force in suburban Cleveland. He was best man at my wedding in 1962. He served in an era when MOST cops embodied the now frequently hollow motto emblazoned on police units all over this country: “TO PROTECT AND SERVE.”

The last 10 years of his career were spent as the chief Juvenile Detective in his department. When he died, a number of the young men whose lives he had touched years before came forward to tell how his timely and sometimes tough-love intervention turned them around.

I know that many officers STILL try to live that creed today. I also know that there are officers out there who, despite the rulings by the Supremes that they have no obligation to specific, individual citizens (see Warren v. DC for some fascinating and frightening reading on that), would stand between one of us and a bullet – and have.

Having said that, I must also lament that SOME cops are “cowboys.” Too many are simply power driven megalomaniacs who would have dropped on the OTHER side of the law had their lives drifted a degree or two off the course they did take.

I believe this to be especially true of far too many federal law enforcement types who have allowed their egos and hubris to become as bloated as the bureaucratic federal behemoth they serve. (See footnote below). Their mandate is no longer to “…protect and serve” the citizens who pay their salaries: It is to crush any meaningful resistance to a growing body of procedures, regulations and policies – too frequently enforced under severely tortured interpretations of the underlying legislative enactments (if any) – and often put in place by executive fiat. The massively abused SEIZURE statutes – laws the author of which now seeks to RESCIND! — spring to mind.

And one cannot but help to wonder how the clear to anyone with half a brain criminality of the Clintons and now Obama – and their subsequent avoidance of any penalty – has played into the problem? There now seems to be a bright line between the easy, highly flexible, slap-on-the-wrist law for the rich and powerful and the rigidly enforced law against even the tiniest victimless “crimes” committed by those of us further down the food chain. Does anyone in his right mind believe THAT will NOT engender added disrespect for ALL law?

Could those things be a large part of the problem in some of the highly disturbing – and DEADLY (on BOTH sides) – confrontations we have witnessed over the past decade or so? Gordon Kahl, Ruby Ridge, OK City, Waco, Beck… This list WILL lengthen and we’d all better pray that WE will be spared.

Roman historian Tacitus warned that one could tell the level of corruption in a society by the NUMBER of its laws. Anyone doubt the level of corruption here?
Am I the only one who thinks we’re long overdue a serious review of the NUMBERS of laws under which we are now forced to exist – and which are increasingly used not to assure our safety or well-being, but to COMMAND AND CONTROL us and KEEP US IN LINE.

Only the most tyrannical and power-crazed members of law enforcement could possibly object to that.

The modern counterparts of my uncle would not object.

It is THEY, after all, who are most likely to catch that bullet – probably fired by someone who has symbolically screamed to himself “I’M MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANY MORE” — referred to earlier when they sally forth to serve that flimsy warrant or make that bogus arrest.

Dick Bachert (1999) Updated 12/2010

FOOTNOTE:
At a cocktail party back in the late 80’s, I struck up a chat with a fellow — his name was Joe M. — whom I’d met on one or two previous events. After my first encounter, Joe’s neighbor and my boss at the time told me that Joe was an alcoholic who had just retired from 25 years with the IRS. Needless to say, I was guarded in expressing my political views to Joe as the IRS had helped my dad into an early grave in 1977 — at age 59 over an estate matter. Joe was pretty deep into his cups at the function in question and began telling IRS “war stories.” Most had to do with clear cases of criminal conduct by not very nice people. Joe — who was a few years short of 60 — sounded to me like someone who enjoyed helping getting really bad people off the street and I asked why he’d retired early. He told me that what he called “the service” had changed for the worse. Then I asked him about the new people coming in. He shook his head, actually teared up and said that many of them were “really bad.” I pressed. “Really bad” meant incompetent? “No — DANGEROUS,” he responded “they like to hurt people.”

It was then that I think I understood why Joe drank.


11 posted on 08/10/2012 7:57:12 PM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: george76

Gee, I can’t imagine why anyone would hate the pigs.


12 posted on 08/10/2012 8:01:02 PM PDT by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
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To: george76

What’s with cops shooting dogs?

Seems like there’s been a lot of stories lately about cops beating up and abusing people, shooting dogs, busting down doors, etc.

Sounds like the cops are getting carried away with all this paramilitary sh!t. And now they’re gonna have drones? Save us.


13 posted on 08/10/2012 8:02:31 PM PDT by upchuck ("Definition of 'racist:' someone that is winning an argument with a liberal." ~ Peter Brimelow)
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To: george76
and yet another doughnut eater earns their merit badge...

14 posted on 08/10/2012 8:02:53 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: george76

The only justice would be if the lawsuit stripped each of t he folks in positions of authority within this raid of all their possessions, their pensions, and their jobs. As it is, I imagine if the plaintiff wins this suit, the taxpayers pay up and these scumbags go on about their business. There is no ncentive for these jbt’s to think twice about terrorizing citizens.


15 posted on 08/10/2012 8:03:04 PM PDT by SoDak (Obama..change you can step in.)
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To: george76

This crap will never end until cities(taxpayers) quit being the piggy bank for funding the payouts of the lawsuit(s).

It should come from the police union’s pension fund.


16 posted on 08/10/2012 8:03:12 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: Politicalmom

What should be the proper treatment then for the ATF, AG, executive branch and anyone else that knew about Fast and Furious and approved or did nothing to stop it? These are REAL, EVIL crimminals.

These local thugs do not even deserve a trial. They should be delivered in shackles to the family they abused and then no questions asked.


17 posted on 08/10/2012 8:04:39 PM PDT by MtnClimber (To the left wrong is right, down is up and backward is "Forward")
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To: GBA; Travis McGee

>>These people would easily march you into the showers when the time comes.

THAT is worth saying again.

You know, mistreating animals is a sign to watch out for, as those who will harm animals will also often harm people.

http://www.pet-abuse.com/pages/abuse_connection.php/


18 posted on 08/10/2012 8:05:44 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: FreedomPoster

This process, of shooting the pets as procedural, next gets ramped up to shooting people, next.

Its a process of desensitization of the public.


19 posted on 08/10/2012 8:08:53 PM PDT by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: GBA

If a community wants to have an effect on the cops...then simply require the police to post a bond (I’d suggest in the $15 mil range) for each single raid. When they appear in front of the judge...a second paper will be there...and the judge will sign it. If the raid is a “failure”, the bond is paid out within thirty days. The money? I’d have it related to the police budget over the next five years...say a massive limit on payraises or bonuses across the entire police force.

I’m also of the opinion that raids ought to only occur in daylight hours. This 10PM at night business for raid scheduling, merely creates overtime hours somewhere in the accounting business, which the local cops hate to admit.


20 posted on 08/10/2012 8:12:53 PM PDT by pepsionice
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To: GBA
These people would easily march you into the showers when the time comes.

Exactly. The idea that LEOs or members of the military are somehow repositories of moral and political virtue is not borne out by history. An amoral society will produce amoral government employees. It can't be otherwise.

21 posted on 08/10/2012 8:14:39 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: george76
No picture to add to the list...


22 posted on 08/10/2012 8:22:49 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (REPEAL OBAMACARE. Nothing else matters.)
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To: upchuck

It seems like ultra violence by cops is justified in the name of “getting home safely to their families”. No more risks are to be taken.


23 posted on 08/10/2012 8:31:54 PM PDT by andyk (Go Juan Pablo!)
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To: pepsionice

I think the officers should be personally responsible, the .gov will just transfer punishment to tax ayers.

I had a sherffs deputy pounding on my front door at about 4 a.m. last winter. He was pounding and shining his flashlight through the glass. I looked out from the bedroom and said “Just a second”...to put on shorts and put muy carry gun in my pocket. My dogs were understandably going crazy. When I cracked the front door I had my hand on my Kahr MK40 in my pocket. The officer said that in the deep snow there was a car stuck in front of my home and if it was mine I needed to get it out of the road. He was barking it at me and had previously been hitting my door with his flashlight which made me VERY suspicious at this time of night. I told him that the SUV covered in snow in my driveway was my only vehicle. I asked if he ran the tags and he said no. What he did not know was that I felt threatened and if he had even reached toward his gun I would have defended myself. And if my dogs bothered him it is too bad, I would have defended them too.


24 posted on 08/10/2012 8:33:26 PM PDT by MtnClimber (To the left wrong is right, down is up and backward is "Forward")
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To: george76

When it’s just a serf shooting the dog, they say this:

“If his life had been threatened or even minimally in danger, it might have been justified,” (Detective Sgt. Timothy) Woodworth said. “If this was a 100-pound Rottweiler, you might be able to understand it. But this was a 50-55 pound dog. He could have taken any number of other actions.”

Cops don’t have to justify their behavior, though.


25 posted on 08/10/2012 8:34:47 PM PDT by Politicalmom (Liberalism. Ideas so great they have to be mandatory.-FReeper Osage Orange)
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To: jessduntno

So here’s two, in two days.

By that .00001% occurrence rate “fact” you claim, we’re now up to — what? — twenty million valid police breaking and entering incidents in the same period?

ROFLMAO


26 posted on 08/10/2012 8:43:25 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Love the cult, respect the leader, but I simply can't drink the koolaid and die.)
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To: george76

30 million sounds a little low.


27 posted on 08/10/2012 8:44:18 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Viva Christo Rey)
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To: jjotto
I agree. My mom's side is German and I had always wondered how the reasonably educated and sophisticated Germans could have turned loose and/or became the Nazis and then unleashed the horrors they are infamous for.

After seeing how things are ramping up here, of all places, now I understand.

That evil didn't die with Hitler. It lives everywhere and waits and prepares, while we tear down the barriers that keep it at bay and elect those who would follow its path.

28 posted on 08/10/2012 8:44:18 PM PDT by GBA (Kenobi 2012. Our only hope.)
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To: george76


29 posted on 08/10/2012 8:44:29 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Politicalmom

The cops killed their dog, terrorized them and their children. I bet none of them is sure they will live another day for the retribution that is due to them.


30 posted on 08/10/2012 8:44:29 PM PDT by MtnClimber (To the left wrong is right, down is up and backward is "Forward")
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To: george76

A lot of putz headed cops need to be fired, and forced to do public service for a year, something like picking up trash on the side of the road.


31 posted on 08/10/2012 8:47:13 PM PDT by pallis
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To: MtnClimber

WOW! If a county deputy wanted to talk to me at 4 a.m., he or she would radio dispatch and have them call me or would just drive home and call. I suppose that is the advantage of living in a sparsely populated rural area where the deputies actually think on their feet. Most deputies know the locals and would not harass someone during dark hours especially if the house is dark.

These no knock door smashing s, dog killings and innocent folk harassment is beyond reproach. Having been an LEO many years ago I am discouraged that so many cops no longer (except in my county) think on their feet and resolve issues with common sense rather than force.


32 posted on 08/10/2012 8:59:23 PM PDT by Fully Awake DAV (Navy Vet when homosexuality was not tolerated)
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To: MtnClimber

This can hardly be the first “SWAT terrorized children” happening in the Ewe Essay. How has it managed to raise such a (well deserved) stink now?


33 posted on 08/10/2012 9:11:08 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
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To: pepsionice

Makes sense, could work......WILL NEVER HAPPEN.


34 posted on 08/10/2012 9:18:02 PM PDT by nvscanman
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To: george76

These dog shootings seem to be strictly an American thing.

They may happen in Canada but I’ve never heard of one - not one, so I think there cannot be many, and they have SWAT teams knocking down doors and all the rest of it there as well.

That tells me it’s done more out of a mindset of the JBTs than real necessity.


35 posted on 08/10/2012 9:54:09 PM PDT by expat1000
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To: george76

I guarantee you if I am forced to the floor and handcuffed while they search my house and yell at my family I am going to to say all kinds of nasty things about their families, take my ass beating and cash checks.

Can’t get them fired or jailed.


36 posted on 08/10/2012 10:14:33 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Dick Bachert

If you want to do something about it, consider helping this guy. Even though the county will pay for his defense, my guess is they won’t pay for the special expert defense winesses needed. His parents have a website up.

To read about his situation:

http://www.standard.net/topics/matthew-david-stewart

To donate:

http://www.helpmatthewstewart.org/about/


37 posted on 08/10/2012 10:14:33 PM PDT by meatloaf (Support Senate S 1863 & House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
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To: Slump Tester

“Gee, I can’t imagine why anyone would hate the pigs.”

You know, here’s an issue where one would think that the left and the right could come together...


38 posted on 08/10/2012 10:48:34 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: NorthWoody; Manic_Episode; mikethevike; coder2; AmericanChef; Reaganesque; ER Doc; lesser_satan; ...

WELCOME TO FREE REPUBLIC’S MINNESOTA PING LIST!

151 MEMBERS AND GROWING...!

FREEPMAIL ME IF YOU WANT ON OR OFF THIS LIST!


39 posted on 08/10/2012 10:49:02 PM PDT by MplsSteve (General Mills is pro-gay marriage! Boycott their products!)
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To: george76

How the cops can screw up an address/home is beyond me, but they continue to do it despite American having one of the best intelligence database systems in the world.

Minnesota once had a leftist police chief of Minneapolis who screwed up policing there for decades. Bouza was his name.

Lots of lefties still in the Minnesota system including its marxist Secretary of State Mark Ritchie.

We are reaping their legacies of stupidity and leftism.


40 posted on 08/11/2012 12:15:06 AM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: SoDak
The only justice to me is if you shoot one of my dogs I am going to shoot you, DEAD!
At my age I don't give a good god damn if I get taken out;
I will make some widow's and orphans in the process.
Human life has a whole lot less value to me than my boys and girls who protect me and my property. They can always make more people, God only makes a finite amount of of good dogs.
41 posted on 08/11/2012 1:43:06 AM PDT by 5th MEB (Progressives in the open; --- FIRE FOR EFFECT!!)
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To: george76

Having had many contacts with St. Paul PD, even back in the 90’s they had slipped to a terror force. The only thing to do is begin making your doors barricaded so well that they couldn’t get in without asking. As soon as this no-knock crap goes down to polite requests again, that is when we have turned the corner.

* First - They get to sue for anything they want above and beyond the things below.
* As for the bad address raid portion, that should get the Cop fired because the Cop did the warrant or were the one that made the mistake on the warrant. If no Cop admits that they made the mistake, or a Cop isn’t clearly the person at fault, all Cops responsible MUST get fired without pension and lose their state law enforcement license permanently. Any officer refuses to testify against the other officer gets fired with the same result!
* Shooting a dog, $10,000 paid direct to the family for each animal killed and 6 months of weekly psycho-analysis for each officer that fired on or killed a family pet. Officer pays for the analysis, and a re-evaluation of the officer’s fitness for duty and in depth testing by an independent analyst. If they fail any part it is instant firing, and no pension, permanent loss of ability to hold a law license of any kind. (Only if the officer can prove they were bitten and were caused serious bodily injury could this be dismissed, there better be blood and puncture wounds, not a hump stain on their SWAT BDUs or a puppy tugging at their cuff!)
* The homeowner should immediately get 100% of all damage repaired by the police department coming out of the pay of the officers that committed the offense, the remaining amount to come out of the POLICE budget until it is all paid off to fully restore the home. All to be checked and signed off on by an independent arbiter to verify. Again 6 months of weekly therapy paid for by the police department for everyone that was at the house traumatized by the raid.

Once it HURTS for the Chief and the Officers to do this, only then will it stop. Cops have a stigma for being in therapy, and they really need it!
Cops have an attachment to that big pension, and being able to slip off to be a bad cop in another place once they screw up in a city, this stops them from being a bad cop in that state at least. And no one wants to hire a known bad cop, the liability is too large.

My last encounter with St. Paul PD changed my attitude on the Mayberry image of Police. So many are Thugs with Badges! And my father was a career LEO and Chief of a city next door, he would be disgusted with one of his officers killing a family dog. And would have tried to can the cop (administrative is hard to do, but he would have tried.)


42 posted on 08/11/2012 3:19:13 AM PDT by King_Corey (www.kingcorey.com -- OpenCarry.org)
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To: george76

I’m surprised the victims of these police raids haven’t gone nuts and hunted some of these “swat members” or their dogs.


43 posted on 08/11/2012 3:39:16 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) Hey Mitt, F-you too pal)
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To: george76
Poorly written article. Reason usually does better.

There are two kinds of "wrong door raids." A typo on the warrant gives the cops the wrong address, or the cops go to a house other than that on the warrant. The article isn't clear, but it implies this was the first variety.

The suit also alleges that one of the lead officers with the task force "provided false information" in order to get a warrant to raid the Franco family's home.

But then this part implies the cops on the site DID have a warrant for the home, just that it was obtained under false pretenses.

Sherman confused.

44 posted on 08/11/2012 3:55:37 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: MplsSteve

Whatever happened to Minnesota nice!!??


45 posted on 08/11/2012 5:59:51 AM PDT by LUV W (Never forget...WE have THEM surrounded! ~ Rush Limbaugh)
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To: Nervous Tick

“So here’s two, in two days.”

Wow, you really get off on this, huh? Is it difficult typing with one hand?


46 posted on 08/11/2012 8:21:25 AM PDT by jessduntno ("Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis." - Universal truth.)
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To: jessduntno

You made up facts. (Some places they call that “lying”.) When you were called on it, rather than admitting, “Yeah I made that number up out of thin air”, you belligerantly DOUBLED DOWN on it and acted like a major league a-hole.

Let’s just say that it pissed me off to the point where I’ve taken on, as a personal project, rubbing your nose in your own puke.

Don’t like it? Apologize & admit your fabrication.


47 posted on 08/11/2012 8:52:38 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Love the cult, respect the leader, but I simply can't drink the koolaid and die.)
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To: Nervous Tick

“Don’t like it? Apologize & admit your fabrication.”

Piss off.


48 posted on 08/11/2012 9:23:35 AM PDT by jessduntno ("Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis." - Universal truth.)
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To: jessduntno

>> Piss off.

See you next time, then.


49 posted on 08/11/2012 9:29:11 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Love the cult, respect the leader, but I simply can't drink the koolaid and die.)
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To: Nervous Tick

“See you next time, then.”

Cool. Give my regards to your cell mate.


50 posted on 08/11/2012 9:31:11 AM PDT by jessduntno ("Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis." - Universal truth.)
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