Skip to comments.Mormon-Catholic pairing makes for historically unique GOP ticket
Posted on 08/11/2012 11:51:20 AM PDT by NoLibZone
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No cute little picture to back yourself up this time? You’re getting lazy. The entire political fight going on right now can be condensed into a series of cartoons with different riddles all possessing the same, single answer. When politics becomes a comedy, the clown is President.
Don’t forget the Mennonites.
That might be our one hope to avoid Obamacare and still drive cars.....
“When politics becomes a comedy, the clown is President.”
Actually, the Kenyan is a assclown. I can hardly wait until November when the Obama freak show comes to an end. Will you be sticking around?
“Actually, the Kenyan is a assclown. I can hardly wait until November when the Obama freak show comes to an end. Will you be sticking around?”
Nothing will give me greater pleasure than to watch the Mittbots make excuses for their new Dear Leader for 4 years.
I had never heard of them before. Thanks :)
Well...now we have a Muslim hiding as a black liberation communist “Christian” paired with whatever Biden claims to be - lapsed pro-abortion Catholic?
That’s way more weird than Romney/Ryan.
Okay...how about Obama being born Muslim, raised and schooled in Islamic schools for Obama's early years then 20 years in the church of Reverend Wrights hate rhetoric about America. Oh yes, Obama threw Wright under his bus when that bit was no longer working. Take this religious thingy out of the campaigns - that leaves a man raised by Communist fathers in another country and a man raised by American parents with American values...hummmmm
No pay - what a crock.
My uncle is a former bishop - he got plenty, to reimburse his “expenses”.
Romney’s family goes back to the beginning of Mormonism, he is as ingrained as one can be.
Now that my uncle (the former bishop one) is elderly, he asked his now bishop permission to do all kinds of things. An example, when my son preached for the first time, I asked him and my aunt to join us, his words “I need to ask my bishop”, he called back “sorry we will not be there”.
My youngest’s Mormon friend from work had to ask for permission to attend church, her bishop said yes, but ONLY because my child had gone to ward with her.
Please, these are simple things, don’t try and tell us Romney did not ask for permission to run for governor or president.
Hellbound church? Say what?
you know Gods will and plan no better than any of us. You’re doing traditional Christians no favors with your vitriol.
Who was yor choice then? Who would you have voted for?
Can you provide a link to this? Since you’re so adamant about it, I’m sure you got some handy.
“you know Gods will and plan no better than any of us. Youre doing traditional Christians no favors with your vitriol.”
So you believe Joseph Smith found some gold plates with reformed Egpytian written on them and that told him all Christianity is the whore of Babylon and that he ought to take on a few extra wives?
It’s hell-bound alright.
“Who was yor choice then? Who would you have voted for?”
I didn’t get a choice. I live in Texas. It was settled before one of the most conservative states in the union even had a chance. The Open primary and lib states picked our nominee for us.
A link to what, what I related are personal experiences.
I didn’t put it in a news paper.
Interesting dynamics at work.
I personally do not. However who I am I to say that’s not what happened? Any more than say a confucian would be able to say with cerainty that my Lord was not resurrected on the third day.
Its a loser of an argument. Neither you nor I know with any certainty. They call it faith for a reason. You do Christianity no favors by condemning a religion that presents no threat to you. The golden rule still works and is pretty much universal across religions.
I call Mitt Bishop because he was a Stake President, the Mormon version of a Catholic Bishop, and we have never had a presidential candidate that high in a religious order.
The Romneys are truly powerful and leaders within Mormonism, they arrived here to serve Joseph Smith 170 years ago and have never wavered, they have produced many leaders, including a candidate for Holy Prophet who died before the decision was made, Mitt’s father was a Bishop as well, the Romney family is royalty within the religion and have brought in tens of millions of dollars, and made 2 consecutive attempts to gain the White House.
Mitt Romney sought a meeting with his Holy Prophet to ask permission to run for president in 2005 and then announced.
You seem to be overselling your story, try to tone it down a little.
The political climate was that a lefty that hated republicans killed JFK, not republicans, or “the right”, or “Dallas”.
Can I get a shout out???
“I personally do not. However who I am I to say thats not what happened? Any more than say a confucian would be able to say with cerainty that my Lord was not resurrected on the third day.
Its a loser of an argument. Neither you nor I know with any certainty. They call it faith for a reason. You do Christianity no favors by condemning a religion that presents no threat to you. The golden rule still works and is pretty much universal across religions.”
Mormonism is a proven fraud. They even found Joseph Smith’s papyri (he bought it from a traveling Mummy salesman) that he “translated” the so called Book of Abraham from (he translated it during an era where no one could actually read ancient Egpytian) and Egyptologists declared it to be a standard burial rite. Mormonism is disprovable in over 200 different ways. I can dismantle it in 3 seconds. No, maybe just 2 and a half. You don’t need to be Confucious or anybody. You just have to be a rational adult without a serious mental disorder.
As for “posing no threat,” Christ Himself damns all false prophets to hell. We are told by Paul that whoever preaches a different Gospel, let him be accursed. All religious cults, whether it is Islam or Mormonism or the Jehovah’s Witnesses, are wrong in the sight of God.
Joe Biden is America’s first Catholic vice-President, and a Catholic in good standing.
The only way that your posts make any sense at all, is if you are not a Christian.
Christians are baffled by you absurd reasoning, you are denying Christianity to get to your defense of Mormonism.
So you profess to know Gods will with regard to Mormonism? You’re now a special, self-appointed prophet who has special insight into these things?
Then I guess you completely missed the irony of saying that Christ himself damns all false prophets to hell.
I thought I did and smiled at you too!
Wait, there could be a third, and that would be your view.
“So you profess to know Gods will with regard to Mormonism? Youre now a special, self-appointed prophet who has special insight into these things?
Then I guess you completely missed the irony of saying that Christ himself damns all false prophets to hell.”
Seriously, buy a clue on Mormonism. It is not wise to comment on something you’ve never thought about before or studied on. As for “God’s will with regard to Mormonism”:
Gal 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Try again. I’m a practicing Catholic. One who actually goes to church and listens. I don’t recall any part of the Gospel that says that I’m supposed to go out of my way to castigate those who don’t agree with my religious views. Apparently there is some part of your Gospel that says otherwise. Must be one of those new translations.
“The Mormon haters on this board are living in a virtual dream world of their own creation. Your imaginations about the cult of obedience of the Mormon Church have no basis in reality, regardless of what you think your uncle and former bishop told you.”
So your family was one of the first to be conned by Joseph Smith. Congratulations. Not that I should boast. Mine is filled with drunks and schizophrenics.
“Lying for the Lord
The following was written by Ken Clark for MormonThink. Ken worked full time for the LDS Church Education System (CES) for 27 years. He also served as a bishop; a calling he enjoyed as much as full time instructor and Coordinator for the Church Education System. He loved (and still loves) the students and the ward members. His story can be found here.
Ken gave an excellent presentation on Lying for the Lord at the 2008 ExMormon Foundation Conference in Salt Lake City. Lying for the Lord on You Tube.
“The right to lie in the service of your own interests is highly valued and frequently exercised”-Nero Wolfe
I began this list when I was a full time employee of the LDS Church Education System (CES). I worked as a Seminary Principal/teacher, Institute teacher/Director, and Stake CES Coordinator from 1975 - 2002. My last assignment was brief. I signed a Letter of Agreement with CES to serve as the Director of the Pullman, Washington LDS Institute of Religion adjacent to Washington State University in July 2002. I resigned from CES a month later. I carry fond memories of the students, ward leaders and others I grew to respect in the LDS Church. I started this list in an effort to defend the church from its detractors. I was insulted that critics accused LDS church leaders of dishonesty. I “knew” the criticisms could not be true.
As an informal defender, I discovered that those accusing the church leaders of being dishonest sometimes had the facts on their side (when I took the time to check). I dealt with the cognitive dissonance by pointing out that (1) all organizations are run by humans and if you search hard enough, of course you’ll find a few isolated examples of deception; and (2) since the leaders are human, they will err on occasion. I guessed there may have been occasional isolated examples of premeditated deception but it was not a pattern or standard practice.
Sometimes I caught myself revealing less than the whole truth, or embellishing in order to defend the church. I noticed that other members often did the same thing. I gave myself permission to be slightly dishonest because I was defending God’s one true church; or so I reasoned. Eventually I decided to let the lives and sermons of the church leaders speak for themselves. If detractors were right some of the time, the church and I would deal with it.
I believed a list of prevarications presented in the proper context would prove that lying wasn’t actually lying. Instead the list would prove that a perceived lie was probably a misunderstanding, a remark out of context or a deliberate misinterpretation of historical events. My belief was that those who accused church leaders with deception were deceivers themselves; they twisted words and took remarks out of context. But as I read more church history my list grew, and at some point it occurred to me that a pattern of institutionalized deception had been established by Joseph Smith. Subsequent church leaders, including those who serve currently, followed Smith’s example of lying to protect the church. The growing evidence pointed to a standard practice.
Evidence presented in this essay establishes that when the church image or its leaders needed protection it was and is, okay to fib, deceive, distort, inflate, minimize, exaggerate, prevaricate or lie. You will read quotations by church leaders who admitted that deception is a useful tool to protect the church and its leaders “when they are in a tight spot,” or “to beat the devil at his own game.” They admit engaging in moral gymnastics; that God approves of deception - if it’s done to protect the “Lord’s Church” or “the brethren” as the leaders are called.
I was stunned after I learned these uncomfortable truths. I had naively believed that when church leaders transgressed, they followed the required steps of repentance, as taught to members and investigators. I believed they had the courage to face their mistakes and confess their shortcomings, no matter what the consequences; to live the same standards they set for the members. I believed they were completely honest.
D. Michael Quinn called the use of deception by LDS church leaders, “theocratic ethics.” (The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, page 112) Smith lied to protect himself or the church; which was an extension of himself. Dan Vogel in his excellent work, Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet, described Smith’s viewpoint; he was a pious deceiver. Smith used deception if in his mind; it resulted in a good outcome. Smith had Moroni, an ancient American prophet and custodian of the gold plates declare, “And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. ( Moroni 4:11-12). Translation: if deception was necessary to do good, or bring a soul to Christ, then it was worth it, as long as God approves. Smith believed he knew when God approved of lying.
Smith believed God also approved of murder if it was for a good cause. He wrote in the Book of Mormon that Nephi was inspired by God (1 Nephi 4:6) to deceive and capture a servant; and then murder another man in order to secure an ancient historical record on brass plates. And in Missouri, Smith and his counselor Sidney Rigdon threatened to kill Mormon’s who disagreed with Smith’s policies and initiatives (Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, Chapter 3, “Theocratic Beginnings,” 79-103).
Smith re-wrote scripture to demonstrate that God had ordered the prophet Abraham to lie to protect himself and his wife Sarah from harm (Abraham 2:23-25).
Before becoming a prophet, Smith’s chosen profession relied on deception to earn a living. He assured clients that he could see underground treasure using a magic stone in the bottom of his hat and clients paid him to locate hidden gold using this method. He never did of course. Smith’s arrest, trial and conviction in Bainbridge, NY for fraud in 1826 documented his activity. He was found guilty of glass looking. The modern term for Smith would be a con artist. (Dan Vogel, Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet, 82-86). Modern scams operate on a similar principle Smith used to separate people from their money.”
The rests at: http://www.mormonthink.com/lying.htm
Wordy, wordy, wordy, without really saying anything, we get it, you ran for office unsuccessfully and were a Bishop.
The Romneys are Mormon royalty and perhaps it’s biggest cash cow, and is a powerful family even in the normal world, a Mormon bridge to government power, your family isn’t and hasn’t, the difference of about 30 months of when your families started serving Joseph Smith is meaningless, the Romneys committed and made the journey from England specifically to serve him.
Romney did ask permission of his Prophet, but then, he plays in the Mormon big leagues, millions of dollars from the Romneys go in, and Romney benefits hugely.
As a good Catholic you know that Mormonism is not a Christian religion, that it is a polytheistic religion created by Joseph Smith in the 1830s, that is your churches statement on it.
Does your church want you to remain silent in the face of Mormonism, I doubt it, I haven’t found anything that seems to indicate that yet.
I doubt that they want you fighting for it, defending it to other Catholics and other Christians, attacking Christians for speaking out and defending the Christian faith.
I think the fact that Paul Ryan is a Catholic helps to make him a comfortable fit for the VP position because he will be working closely with Mormon Mitt Romney when they are the winners of the presidential election in November. Catholics and Mormons have a respect for the religious convictions of others and debating religious differences will not be time consuming for either.
Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan have a Republic to save and that is where their efforts will be concentrated. God bless them both.
Sola Scriptura will not be on the program!
A whole dollar? Man, you are generous! I typically drop them a gum wrapper. On rare occasions, it even still has unchewed gum in it.
FWIW, I think these yahoos might actually provide the margin to pull Romney/Ryan over the finish line. They are the mirror image of the racist boogeyman who goes to the Obama events and shout the n***** word.
Only their type of jerks actually exist in substantial and vocal numbers. Fair-minded American's won't even have to imagine that they are sticking it to the peanut gallery by voting for R&R, because the peanut gallery wants to be noticed more than anything else.
Scientology / Nichiren Shoshu for me!
I hate to break the news to you Luke, but millions of Christians have the "opportunity to go to the source, the Savior...with Christian baptism that has nothing to do with the mormon church.
Man you love to talk about yourself, you didn’t even know about Mitt’s seeking the meeting and asking permission, you still don’t, yet you are lying and “guaranteeing” that he did not do so.
All your rambling nonsense and details about your personal life is just bizarre and unfocused.
“I think the fact that Paul Ryan is a Catholic helps to make him a comfortable fit for the VP position because he will be working closely with Mormon Mitt Romney when they are the winners of the presidential election in November. Catholics and Mormons have a respect for the religious convictions of others and debating religious differences will not be time consuming for either.
Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan have a Republic to save and that is where their efforts will be concentrated. God bless them both.”
You should rethink your phrase “God bless”.
2Jn 1:9-11 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. (10) If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: (11) For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
“Save your bull sh-t for your like minded friends. I did not ask God to bless you but I repeat, God bless Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan.”
It’s a twofer. Not only is Mitt Romney a leader in a cult, he’s also a known pathological liar. I can understand sympathy for Glenn Beck, who has done good work for our cause... but “blessing” Mitt Romney even after seeing that scripture? It proves you don’t care about the moral character of your leaders, but then you still expect God to bless them and the country that elected them. Quite foolish.
This country does not have a Barack Obama or Mitt Romney problem. It is a spiritual problem. And that is why we have the “leaders” we do. The farce that is today’s politics reflects the farce in our own visions of “righteousness” and what is a priority.
Biden has excommunicated himself by supporting abortion and other non-Catholic issues. He should not be received Communion. However, I don’t know if his bishop has acted formally as Sibelius’ did.
If the Catholic church has excommunicated the vice-president of the United “States, I think it would make the news.
You are not a trustworthy source for the claims.
Okay, who WOULD you have voted for?
You come a LONG way, Baby!
It appears that Mitt no longer 'sustains' this High Priest!!Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
Oh; don't worry, Ma'am!
We'll 'rest' after we get home from our years tour on the battlefield.
Right now though; we are engaged in a great religious war, testing whether this nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated to Christ, can long endure it's homegrown heresies.
We are taking the message that Christianity was apostate, until our blessed Joseph RESTORED it to it's former glory, to the streets and pathways of AMEIRCA, 6 days a week - 10 hours a day.
I'm doing whatever I can!!
"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."---Joseph Knight's journal.
"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.
"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.
In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:
"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."
"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)
In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:"When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12June 15, 1879, pp. 190-91.)
Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"("A New Witness for Christ in America,"Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)
"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.
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