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To: ansel12
Paul Ryan’s church tells us that Mormonism is not a Christian religion, but that it poses as such, Mitt is a powerful figure and leader in that religion. There is no way that conservatives can avoid discussing Mormonism, especially when one of their Bishops is the presidential candidate who first asked for and received permission from his Pope to run for president, JFK didn’t do that.

Wrong on the facts.

1. Mitt is not a leader in the Mormon Church. He was a Bishop, like a Congregational Pastor. For a time he was a Stake President. Now he is a mere member, Brother Romney. Just like probably 50,000 or more former LDS bishops and stake presidents who are now serving as Sunday School teachers, Scoutmasters, choir directors, librarians and nursery leaders. Like most, he is probably a Home Teacher responsible for visiting 4 or 5 families in his congregation. Nothing more. (He truly doesn't have time to do more).

I was once a Bishop also. Ran for statewide office during that time. Had to be released because I just didn't have time to serve my young family, my congregation and also run for statewide office. By the way, Bishops and Stake Presidents are completely volunteer. There is no pay. And no one seeks or campaigns or tries to position himself to become such. In fact, such a calling is often accompanied by both heartfelt congratulations and not insincere sympathies from friends and well wishers.

2. Mitt did not have to get permission to run for President. Give me a break. Your idea of Mormons is so erroneously biased you are imaging protocol that does not and never has existed.

(There can be only one cure. I strongly suggest you look up the local Mormon ward and attend services tomorrow. You might ask the Bishop for a few minutes after Sacrament meeting to discuss his responsibilities and service.)

Mitt may have asked for advice and counsel from Church leaders he respects. Anyone with half a brain would do the same and consult with mentors and people they respect before taking on such a venture. But in NO WAY did he have to ask permission from Church leaders. Now Ann and the boys was a different story entirely. He had to have not only their permission but their total support. I understand he did seek their permission.
40 posted on 08/11/2012 3:17:12 PM PDT by LukeSW (The truth shall make you free!)
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To: LukeSW

Mitt Romney sought permission from the LDS to run on a pro-abortion platform in Massachusetts. And he got it, of course. And considering the mind-controlling and cultic nature of Mormonism, no leader in the LDS, no matter how minor, can be compared to the leaders in historical Christianity. The institutionalized lying, and emphasis on obedience, are well documented about your hell-bound church.

43 posted on 08/11/2012 3:23:28 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: LukeSW

No pay - what a crock.
My uncle is a former bishop - he got plenty, to reimburse his “expenses”.
Romney’s family goes back to the beginning of Mormonism, he is as ingrained as one can be.
Now that my uncle (the former bishop one) is elderly, he asked his now bishop permission to do all kinds of things. An example, when my son preached for the first time, I asked him and my aunt to join us, his words “I need to ask my bishop”, he called back “sorry we will not be there”.
My youngest’s Mormon friend from work had to ask for permission to attend church, her bishop said yes, but ONLY because my child had gone to ward with her.
Please, these are simple things, don’t try and tell us Romney did not ask for permission to run for governor or president.

58 posted on 08/11/2012 4:44:19 PM PDT by roylene (Salvation the great Gift of Grace.)
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To: LukeSW

I call Mitt Bishop because he was a Stake President, the Mormon version of a Catholic Bishop, and we have never had a presidential candidate that high in a religious order.

The Romneys are truly powerful and leaders within Mormonism, they arrived here to serve Joseph Smith 170 years ago and have never wavered, they have produced many leaders, including a candidate for Holy Prophet who died before the decision was made, Mitt’s father was a Bishop as well, the Romney family is royalty within the religion and have brought in tens of millions of dollars, and made 2 consecutive attempts to gain the White House.

Mitt Romney sought a meeting with his Holy Prophet to ask permission to run for president in 2005 and then announced.

You seem to be overselling your story, try to tone it down a little.

67 posted on 08/11/2012 5:24:39 PM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors,,, where the GOP goes for it's "conservative" Presidential candidates.)
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To: LukeSW
2. Mitt did not have to get permission to run for President.


Did I miss yet ANOTHER memno???

Ezra Taft Benson

Ezra Taft Benson (August 4, 1899 – May 30, 1994) was the thirteenth president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) from 1985 until his death and was United States Secretary of Agriculture for both terms of the presidency of Dwight D. Eisenhower.

In 1953, Benson was appointed U.S. Secretary of Agriculture by President Eisenhower. Benson accepted this position with the permission of Church President David O. McKay and therefore served simultaneously in the United States Cabinet and in the LDS Church's Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

114 posted on 08/12/2012 4:43:14 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: LukeSW; ansel12; Jim Robinson; wagglebee
On Sat Aug 11 2012 17:17:12 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) (40 of 154) LukeSW wrote to ansel12: “Mitt is not a leader in the Mormon Church. He was a Bishop, like a Congregational Pastor.”

Luke, you must know better than this.

Under Congregational church government, the local church is autonomous and nobody outside the local church can tell the local pastor what to do. That is true for Congregationalism (capital “C”) as well as congregationally-governed denominations (lowercase “c”) such as Baptists and the majority of other modern evangelical denominations. While it's entirely possible for a Congregational pastor to have his credentials removed by the denomination or for the local church to be expelled from the denomination, I don't think you can seriously argue that a Mormon bishop has anywhere near the level of freedom that a Congregational pastor has.

I have no desire to misrepresent Mormonism, but to argue that Mitt Romney “was a Bishop, like a Congregational Pastor” is neither accurate nor helpful.

On the broader issue of Mormonism — Luke, I've been reading your posts. Apparently you have close enough ties with the Romney family and long enough history in the LDS that you're able to have some influence with him. I hope you're successful, but I'm not optimistic.

The stakes are high for America, for the Republican Party, and for your church.

The Mormons have spent more than a century trying to craft a public image of being conservative and pro-family, and have had a fair amount of success. However, Romney's history on abortion, homosexuality, socialized medicine, gun control, and many other issues could easily undo many decades of hard work by Mormons to present themselves as a group of hard-working people who support strong family values.

There are precedents — bad precedents — and Mormons need to consider history before you repeat it.

The elevation of John F. Kennedy to the presidency put liberalism into the driver's seat of the Roman Catholic Church for a generation. If I were a Mormon, I would be seriously concerned that the elevation of Romney to the presidency may do major damage not only to the public image of Mormonism but also to your own church. The very least that can be said is that the Romney family's long history of left-of-center political positions does not enhance the public image Mormons have been trying to create.

Do Mormons want to be known as the church of Harry Reid, Mitt Romney and John Huntsman? That's for you and your church to decide, not outsiders like me. But if that's the choice you make, many of us in the evangelical world who have some respect for your church's work fighting homosexuality in California and similar issues will start wondering if even your “families are forever” advocacy is up for negotiation. I don't think that's a risk you want to take.

155 posted on 08/13/2012 2:48:44 AM PDT by darrellmaurina
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