Skip to comments.Zimmerman defense lawyers won't argue 'stand-your-ground' in Florida shooting case
Posted on 08/14/2012 6:36:13 AM PDT by MNDude
attorney for the man who shot and killed unarmed Florida teenager Trayvon Martin said Monday he'll seek to get the case dismissed using a traditional self-defense argument and not the state's "stand your ground" statute. Mark O'Mara, who is defending George Zimmerman against a second-degree murder charge in the fatal February shooting, said the traditional self-defense approach is appropriate because the facts suggest his client couldn't retreat from a beating Martin was giving him. Zimmerman's attorneys had said last week that they would use Florida's controverial "stand your ground" law, which allows people to use deadly force -- rather than retreat -- if they believe their lives are in danger. "The facts don't seem to support a `stand your ground' defense," O'Mara said. Martin's Feb. 26 death in a gated community in the Orlando suburb of Sanford first drew national attention on March 8, the day his relatives held their first news conference to lament that Zimmerman hadn't been arrested.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/13/zimmerman-defense-lawyers-wont-argue-tand-your-ground-in-florida-shooting-case/?test=latestnews#ixzz23WkwXCXZ
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Well, O’Mara knows best about the facts, but the benefits of a SYG dismissal is immunity from civil action (which you know the Martins will commence if/when charges are dropped).
If someone is astride you and beating you to a pulp, you’re hardly in a position to retreat, but then decide not to because you’re going to Stand Your Ground. SYG has absolutely nothing to do with this case, although a lot of lefties and MSM demagogues (but I repeat myself) seem to think otherwise.
I can see the attorney’s argument for not using SYG, I even agree with it. The key point I see is that the Judge that is currently assigned is obviously biased in this case. What I think needs to be done is to move the case to a different jurisdiction entirely. The Jury pool has been tainted and with this judge I think it is impossible to get a “fair” trial.
I know they requested a new judge and was shot down. Did they also request a change of venue and have that denied as well?
They’ve appealed the judge’s decision to not recuse himself.
I think they went to the court of appeals about the judge. A venue change request hasn’t been made as far as I know.
Z’s lawyer has to thread a needle. Beating the Florida rap doesn’t accomplish anything if Z then faces Federal civil rights charges.
It’s really about money. If it is dismissed under SYG there is no civil liability. Team Skittles wants a payday. Nothing more, nothing less.
Back when all this was just getting cranked up it was the left wing media, and ONLY the left wing media that was pushing SYG into this case. This case was going to be their venue to spin and lie about SYG. Now that opportunity is gone.
Going for ther stand your ground law means the case can bew thrown out/dismissed and from what I understand, they could appeal to the stand your ground law even if the case didn’t actually involve the ‘rules’ of stand your ground
However, since thge biased judge refuses to recuse himself fro mthe case- I seriously doubt he will allow the argument swince that would mean the biased judge would lose hte limelight he’d gain from a trial and conviction of a ‘white’ man
There was a ‘lawyer’ (liberal) on today arguing that because zimmerman didn’t ‘go to the hospital, that means he couldn’t argue justifiable homicide due to self defense’ (not direct quote- but close enough) If that is the case, then Sicne when did the requirement to defend yourself with deadly force include the prerequisite that you must go to the hospital immediately after the incident?
IIRC George would have to testify in a SYG hearing and that would be a nightmare for his defense.
[[Beating the Florida rap doesnt accomplish anything if Z then faces Federal civil rights charges]]
What would cause that chaqrge to be brought? How the heck could he be charged with that if it’s shown that zsimmerman acted in self defense? It should be pretty easy (assuming the whole judicial system inviolved i nthe case isn’t cowtowing to opinion of the black comunity but ragther actually following the law) to show that race had nothign to do with a man in fear for his life while having his head smashed against concrete- The second martin touched zimmerman- zimmerman had every right to defend himself, whether or not george followed martin- this is irrelevent- martin had ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to touch george- no right at all- as soon as martin initiated physical contact- race is out hte window and assault and defense enters in- marint was the aggressor- and regardless of what george did- martin acted illegally when he assaulted george- george acted legally and within his rights al lthe way through the incident- it doesn’t matter whether martin was black, red, yellow, purple- geroge had every right to follow him as long as he didn’;t initiate any physical contact- The ONLY reason george would not have had a right to follow martin was IF martin had taken out a restrainign order against him, and we know this certainly wasn’t the case-
Anyways- I seriously doubt any kind of legal judggement is goign to come down in this case- the judge has been tainted by bias and predjudice and infact the judge is hte one who wshould be charged with racial bias IF he rules agaisnt an obvious case of self defence- It’s funny how the black comunity can bring charges of ‘racism’ WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE whatsoever, but zimmerman, a hsipanic, isn’t allowed to counter especially in the face of blatant racial bias agaisnt him?
I hate to go against the general trend here, but Zimmerman would never have been in that position had he just minded his own business.
Neighborhood watches tend to be run by petty little tyrants like the type who run HOA’s and are staffed by nebby busybodies with too much time on their hands. Sorry, I see anyone walking down the street, Black kid or otherwise, and I ignore him. He ain’t bothering me, so I could care less about where he goes or what he does.
Look, I really don’t care what happens in this case, I have no dog in the fight. But I’m enough of a resident of Realville to know that regardless of what the outcome of the criminal; case is, George Zimmerman probably doesn’t have a long future ahead of him. If convicted he’ll get “inmate justice” like Jeffrey Dahmer, or if acquitted someone on the street will take him out. BTW, that’s not a prediction, just an observation.
Regarding the judge’s bias ...
That he ordered GZ to reside in Seminole county speaks volumes. GZ has cooperated with LEOs at every stage of this process. There is absolutely no legal justification for that order. GZ is clearly not a flight risk. The order endangers his and Shellie’s safety.
Regarding SYG ...
I concur. This is simple self defense.
Devil’s Advocate for a second.
If someone is following you rather ominously at night, why do YOU not have the right to confront that person? SYG works both ways. Trayvon may have thought he was being stalked. Trayvon was a 17 year-old kid.....for all he knew GZ could be some sex pervert into teenage boys.
Well just saying but you could be some sex pervert into teenage boys.
GZ was on his way to the grocery. He was not performing NW duty at the time.
But to your point, GZ’s community had a recent string of burglaries, all committed by young black males, some violent. When your community (i.e. your neighbors and friends) is repeatedly burglarized, you have two choices. You either continue to be a victim at the risk of encouraging more serious crimes like rape and murder or you take back your community to show the thugs that you will not tolerate crime.
GZ took the conservative position. He saw a young male he did not recognize acting strangely on a cold rainy night and decided to call the police. In the process of getting an address for the 911 operator, he was attacked by that young black male. That much is known.
Whether or not TM went for GZ’s gun as GZ claims matters not. GZ was on the ground being beaten (”MMA style” according to eyewitness statements). He defended himself. He had neither the legal obligation to take the beating nor the opportunity to retreat from it.
It. Is. That. Simple.
Don’t fall for the NW bully narrative. GZ didn’t bully anyone. He reported suspicious activity.
TM had the opportunity to call the police to report that he was being “stalked.” He didn’t. He had the opportunity (and time) to go “home” and get away from the “stalker.” He didn’t.
TM confronted GZ, which was his right. But then he became the aggressor when he began beating GZ “MMA-style.” Had TM killed GZ by beating his head into the concrete or getting GZ’s gun and shooting him, it would have been murder not self defense.
That's all well and good by most people.
Until someone they care about is victimized by a thug who is later found to have a houseful of pocketbooks, credit cards, cash, jewelry, etc., that belonged to a bunch of other people's grandmas, sisters, moms, daughters.
And then the question becomes, "He's been doing this for years; why didn't somebody stop him before he hurt so many people?!"
If I see something that does not pass the smell test, I'm going to make the phone call. I don't want my mother, sister, daughter or granddaughter to be the thugs' next victim.
Following someone is not a crime, especially when it is along a public walkway where you have the right to be.
Even confronting another person verbally is not a crime.
However putting your hands on another person is a crime, and the prosecution has already admitted that Martin was on top of Zimmerman doing just that.
for all he knew GZ could be some sex pervert into teenage boys.
Isn't that "profiling"???
Call the Justice Department.
Which were the violent burglaries?
Are you saying that Trayvon had a houseful of pocketbooks, credit cards, cash, jewelry, etc., that belonged to a bunch of other people?
George had multiple opportunities to avoid any confrontation.
So Zimmerman’s life is saved, and his livelihood is forever destroyed. Good day’s work, Mr. O’Mara. A public defender could have done as well.
Read my comment and the other Freeper’s comment that I was replying to. That will answer your question, presuming it was an honest one.
Not every confrontation is avoidable. Not every confrontation is a crime.
Poor sentence structure on my part. I was FReeping in the car ... from my phone ... at a stop light.
I was referring to the young black males not the burglaries.
Above is TWO YEARS of reported incidents for the 240 residence, 3 street neighborhood. A grand total of 30, including the shooting of Trayvon Martin not what Id call a crime wave. If I recall correctly, SIXTEEN of those "crimes" were reported by Zimmerman.
He did not mind his own business. According to Zimmermans 47-page 911 Call History, dating back to 2004, he reported a man driving with no headlights, a biker popping wheelies, dogs, potholes, trash in the street, vehicles driving slowly, vehicles driving fast, open garage doors, and loud parties. Quiet hours must begin at 11:00pm he called at 11:01pm.
He really enjoyed getting people in trouble with the law ... even children. He reported teens playing basketball the clubhouse and jumping fences, kids playing in the street, a boy walking alone, and children not tethered in car seats.
He was also concerned about black men in the neighborhood. In August 2011, he called to report a black male standing near the development's back entrance. Three days later, he called to report two black teens in the same area. On October 1st, he called about 2 black males near the development's front entrance. On February 2nd, Zimmerman called to report a black man near Frank Taffees house. Taffee, who had left his windows open and was not at home, said he received a call from Zimmerman about the man at 6:30pm but Zimmerman didnt notify the police until 8:30pm that evening.
Whatever happened that night .... it was in reaction to Zimmerman having stalked and menaced an innocent child while armed. People seem to forget, that Trayvon was doing nothing other than trying to get home.
It is George, who from before 7:09pm until 7:17pm, had Trayvon in his sight, both figuratively and then literally. The only reason Trayvon would have to approach Zimmerman ... in any way ... was in reaction to Zimmerman's creepy behavior. It's 100% the initiation of Zimmerman's aggressive and menacing behavior that lead to a death that night. Zimmerman is 100% responsible for initiating that entire situation. Zimmerman alone.
What gets to me most deeply about this case is the absolute and total innocence of Trayvon ... minding his own business, oblivious to his surroundings, trying to avoid getting too wet, and talking to his girlfriend. He was totally unaware that he was being targeted. Sadly, on top of this senseless horrible murder, Trayvon is villainized over and over again by his fan club.
You get no arguments from me.
Its some of the others here who want to canonize Zimmerman the same way they whine the left is doing to TM.
yeh sure -- that is one large baby huey at 7-Eleven trying to buy blunts.
trying to get home
He wasn't in that big a hurry. He found time to commit an assault and battery along the way -- hey all in a night's trying to get home.
Zimmerman is 100% responsible
yeh -- he punched himself in the nose, banged his head on the sidewalk, and sat on his own chest -- an amazing contortionist feat.
You mean "reported" to the NEN as someone possibly on the verge of committing a crime -- and he was right. Two minutes later he was committing an assault and battery and was in no hurry to get home.
Zimmerman had no business involving himself. He was told by the authorities to back off, he didn’t. He has no one to blame for the situation he’s in but himself. If this caee puts a dent in this cliquish vigilantism, good.
Sorry, NW fascists, like HOA totalitarians, are petty neighborhood Nazis on power trips. I dislike them intensely and all they stand for. Nebby busybodies and tinhorn tyrants. To Hades with ‘em.
I’ll defend ME and MINE, screw my neighbors...most of whom I despise as it is.
If that’s where you are getting your information no wonder you are confused. He probably still thinks it was ice tea and TM was a little child of 12.
" this artist wrote in a stream of consciousness style and it may appear repetitive at times but there are many pearls worth sharing with others. I will add a few of his most idiosyncratic quotes in the hope that you will search the full document for more, please write the word "quote" and the quotation of his tweet in your comment so that I can easily search for comments of his best quotations add them to the list here. I hope doing so will help many more people to understand what a beautiful mind we have lost, and what wonderful treasure we have found in his work."...
Trayvon Martin was a statistic looking for a way to happen. He'd been tossed out of school for posession of burglary tools and women's jewelry, was walking home from a trip to procure the components of the new-gen drug concoction called "purple drank", was almost certainly high and was most likely casing one or two houses in the neighborhood with the intention of furthering the string of burglaries which had been going on there. His failed attempt to kill George Zimmerman may in fact have been motivated by viewing Zimmerman as a competing burglar on his turf.
Shooting the messenger because you don’t like the message?
In other words, you weren't there and it's sheer conjecture.
A “stand your ground” defense is not necessary for a pretrial hearing, dismissal of charges and immunity from civil liability. Zimmerman has already requested that hearing.
BTW Have you told them that it wasn't ice tea but Watermelon Juice yet??? I dare you to do that.
In other words, you weren't there and it's sheer conjecture.
Put the bong down, man......
None of that stuff is conjecture.
<>he DID have the ingredients of “purple drank” on him when he died;<>
What??? Skittles and Ice Tea??? Oooohhh that’s right. It was Skittles and Watermelon Juice, clearly visible in the photographs at the scene. Ice Tea is cannot be used to create Purple Drank, but Watermelon Juice, with its high sugar content, can.
That must be the reason that Crumpettes and their media blowhards are still using the Ice Tea and Skittles narrative — so that people won’t connect the dots between the ingredients that Martin picked up at the 711 and Purple Drank which creates PCP-like symptoms:
Hey Corey, where is that toxicology report???
Last time I checked, you need codeine for syzzurp.....
Where was/is the codeine????????
Again, I want GZ to go down because he’s a nebby NW Nazi.
They’re scum like the petty tyrants of HOA’s.
It's also made with dextromethorphan which is available over the counter as in Robitussin DM. This from the wikipedia link about Purple Drank aka Sizzurp:
" Syrup also is made with over-the-counter cough syrups such as Robitussin DM, which contain dextromethorphan as the cough suppressant. Although dextromethorphan is used recreationally, it has dissociative effects as opposed to narcotic. Dextromethorphan is a synthetic morphine analog that has been on the market in the United States since the 1960s. It is a cough suppressant in small doses, but in large doses it can result in a disassociative state, with hallucinations, similar to that produced by PCP or ketamine."
Doesn't matter. Nobody gets to kill you for not minding your own business. If you have to defend yourself it's still self defense.
I dont how to put this gently, but since were on the subject of drugs, Zimmerman had some very serious mental health issues prior to the incident.
The overarching issue looks to be ADHD. If Zimmerman is affected by ADHD, then his actions become more understandable. And looking at the drug used to treat the ADHD, Adderall, all I can say is, Yikes!! That is some very serious medication. Quite simply it is two types of speed; very gnarly and serious amphetamines. You treat the hyperactivity that distracted zooming around with uppers.
Enter big Pharmacological gun two. That would be the Temazepam. Again, all I can say is, Yikes!! This drug is a cousin to the more well-known Valium. Damn dangerous stuff; Temazepam will knock you out flat, no fooling around. And like its cousin Valium, Temazepam, like all other benzodiazepines, is very habit forming. It has a very nasty hook to it.
Looking just at the drugs, I can confidently say that Zimmerman was not in his happy place; not at all. He was being pulled in two very different directions by two very heavy duty drugs.
How this speaks to criminal intent is not something I can comment on. Only a well versed pharmacologist or an expert in the ins and outs of ADHD could hazard a competent guess. Was the Adderall helping or hurting Zimmermans impulse control? Was the possible lack of sleep affecting Zimmermans thought process?
All I can say for sure is Zimmermans head was not a place I would want to be in. What a tangled and badly patched bunch of wires his brain must have been; especially when the flight or fight response kicked in.
That this man was waltzing around with a handgun is just too depressing a fact to contemplate. Nothing is inevitable, or fore-ordained, but Zimmerman was as close to a tragedy waiting to happen as any one human being can be. No way this man should have been in possession of a butter knife, never mind a sidearm.
But kids substitute for the Sprite and Jolly Ranchers in their concoction all the time. The article gives some of the substitutes but not all. The key ingredient is the dextromethorphan -- Robotussin DM. The other two provide the sugar high fow which the Skittles and Watermelon drink do just fine.
Perhaps a narcotics agent from the DEA could clear this all up at trial when they will finally have that toxicology report being sequestered by the prosecution, along with why Martin seems so disoriented and unsteady on his feet in the 711 video.
I dont how to put this gently, but since were on the subject of drugs, Zimmerman had some very serious mental health issues prior to the incident.
For which he was under a doctor's care. The drugs were prescription drugs from his doctor -- big difference from street drug concoctions. I'm sure that Big Pharma would testify to the safety of those drugs at trial when taken under a doctor's orders. So don't let your heart be troubled.
And he didn't look hyper or whatever in the videos of him that night or the next day. There were no police observations of such. And he seemed quite lucid in his walkthru despite the beating that his head took the night before.
Maybe the Crump Team can argue that those whacks on the head that he took the night before were therapeutic, but they would be advised to stop short of referring to their hero as "Doctor" Martin.
Instead of trying to vilify the innocent child, who had no Robotussin, try to focus on Zimmerman. He not only has a verifiable prior violent criminal past but is also on mind-altering drugs.
Ill repeat myself: no way this man should have been in possession of a butter knife, never mind a gun. He was being treated for ADHD, which is a Mental Health issue because people with ADHD have brains that are wired differently from birth. If you really want to understand this, read Thom Hartman.
From the U.S. Library of Medicine:
You should know that some people who took medication for sleep got out of bed and drove their cars, prepared and ate food, had sex, made phone calls, or were involved in other activities while partially asleep. After they woke up, these people were usually unable to remember what they had done. Call your doctor right away if you find out that you have been driving or doing anything else while you were sleeping.
You should know that your mental health may change in unexpected ways while you are taking this medication. It is hard to tell if these changes are caused by Temazepam or if they are caused by physical or mental illnesses that you already have or suddenly develop.
Tell your doctor right away if you experience any of the following symptoms: aggressiveness, strange or unusually outgoing behavior, hallucinations (seeing things or hearing voices that do not exist), feeling as if you are outside of your body, memory problems, difficulty concentrating, new or worsening depression, thinking about killing yourself, confusion, and any other changes in your usual thoughts, mood, or behavior. Be sure that your family knows which symptoms may be serious so that they can call the doctor if you are unable to seek treatment on your own.
If you take too much dextroamphetamine and amphetamine (Adderall), you may find that the medication no longer controls your symptoms, you may feel a need to take large amounts of the medication, and you may experience symptoms such as difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep, irritability, hyperactivity, and unusual changes in your personality or behavior. Overusing dextroamphetamine and amphetamine may also cause sudden death or serious heart problems such as heart attack or stroke.
Some side effects can be serious. If you experience any of the following symptoms, call your doctor immediately: believing things that are not true, feeling unusually suspicious of others, hallucinating (seeing things or hearing voices that do not exist), mania (frenzied or abnormally excited mood), aggressive or hostile behavior, changes in vision or blurred vision. (Partial list only)