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We Can't Even Shoot On Our Own Property?(OR)
oregonfirearms.org ^ | August, 2012 | Oregon Firearms Federation

Posted on 08/15/2012 12:58:29 PM PDT by marktwain

Jerry Conrady and his wife have been fighting to be able to continue to safely shoot on their own rural property. This is their story in their own words, why it should matter to you, and how you can help.

Lincoln County is attacking Oregon residents’ rights to shoot on private property. If Lincoln County wins the repercussions for shooters in the State of Oregon will be staggering. Every county will be able to use the following cases as precedent to require anyone on private property to obtain a condition use permit before discharging a firearm. Your support is needed.

Jerry Conrady and his wife own 120 acres in rural Lincoln County. Mr. Conrady is a State certified teacher, has a degree in Gunsmithing from Lassen College and is an Eagle Scout. Mr. Conrady’s wife is an estate paralegal and writer. Neither have any form of criminal record. Mr Conrady gives out free gun locks at Portland gun shows.

Currently the Oregon Revised Statute allows for landowners and their guests to discharge firearms outdoors on private property without any permits. The Conradys and their guests have been doing so since they purchased the property in 2002 with no complaints or negative comments from anyone. In 2008 Mr. Conrady proposed building an indoor range in the center of his property. A small group of their neighbors, backed by someone with a good deal of money is now attempting to sue the Conrady’s into poverty and submission.

There are currently two cases pending: Case number 111143 in which, after the County threatened to sue them if they didn’t stop shooting on their property the Conrady’s filed a suit asking a Judge to read and interpret the law. Instead of ruling on the law in question, the Judge determined that the County has a right to regulate shooting ranges. The County has taken that to mean that anywhere an individual discharges a firearm is then considered a range and thus they have the right to regulate the discharge of firearms on private property and that anyone who wishes to do so must apply for a conditional use permit. This case is currently in the Appeals Court.

Case number 112006 in which 5 of the Conrady’s neighbors are suing them for an “abatement of a nuisance”. Even though the Oregon Revised Statute says that noise from firearms cannot be regulated and does not fall under the nuisance statutes, the same Judge is allowing the case to go through and Lincoln County has jumped on board with the Plaintiffs. The remedy they’re seeking? First they want warrantless search and seizure. They want to be able to enter the Conrady’s property at any time for any reason and arrest anyone suspected of shooting, whether a firearm is present or not. Keep in mind that the Conradys are law abiding citizens who do not currently have nor have ever had a criminal record. They hold concealed weapons permits in multiple states and Mr. Conrady holds an FFL. If they were criminals they would never have passed the checks that allow them these privileges. The Plaintiffs also want the house that the Conrady’s are building on their property with approved permits removed, as well as their well and septic and anything else the County deems an improvement related to a shooting range. There are no improvements as no range was ever built as the County has been told multiple times. This case will be heard November 6th.

The Conradys don’t shoot 24 hours a day 7 days a week. They try to be respectful of their neighbors including voluntarily reducing their shooting hours. In addition, they are not the only people in the area who shoot. Several neighbors on Mr. Conrady’s property line discharge firearms on their property whenever they want, yet is it only the Conrady’s who are being sued.

Oregon Revised Statutes 166.170, 171 and 176 state that NO conditional use permit is necessary for a landowner and guests to discharge firearms on private property. In fact, Counties cannot restrict the discharge of firearms on private property in rural unincorperated areas. Lincoln County is attempting to get around this statute by claiming the Conrady’s were running a shooting range and that anywhere a firearm in discharged is a shooting range, thus they have the right to regulate all shooting. They have yet to define the difference between a commercial shooting range, private shooting range on private property or a landowner and guests discharging firearms on private property. The Conradys never ran a range. They created a non-profit and did what was necessary to prepare to apply for a conditional use permit to build a range. They sent letters and emails and left phone messages for the County asking for guidance which never came. Mr. Conrady had to finally send a letter to the County Commissioners before the county attorney finally responded with a contradictory and confusing letter that baffled every attorney the Conrady’s spoke with and left them wide open to litigation.

The Conradys have been fighting this battle for 4 years now and it’s taken a dramatic personal and financial strain on them. They are no longer fighting for just their rights but the rights of every shooter in the State of Oregon. If they lose, anyone who wants to set up a target or shoot at a can will have to have permission to do so first. It’s once again time to show that shooters will not be bullied.

If you’re interested in supporting the Conradys and your rights call the Lincoln County Commissioners and voice your opinion at 541-265-4176 or write or email them. Anyone who would like to assist with their defense fund may do so as follows: MAKE CHECKS TO: GERALD CONRADY TRUST ACCOUNT Send to: Gerald Conrady Trust Care of Attorney Russell L. Baldwin P.O. Box 1242 Lincoln City, OR 97367


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: banglist; conrady; lincoln; or
Local knowledge from Lincoln county would be appreciated. This is the way that zoning law has been expanded and used to control property owners all over the country.

Zoning has given local authorities power far beyond that ever envisioned in the Constitution.

"No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands]" PROPOSED Virginia CONSTITUTION. FORD ED., ii, 27. (June, 1776.) Thomas Jefferson

1 posted on 08/15/2012 12:58:40 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain
Silencers are available for just about any gun.
2 posted on 08/15/2012 1:08:15 PM PDT by bikerman (Obama lied,economy died.)
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To: marktwain
um... I am sorry but you just can't plop a gun range on your property without permission.

I am free to cook... but I can't open a restaurant either

This isn't a typical gun issue, this is an issue of a city being able to regulate a business

3 posted on 08/15/2012 1:17:18 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: marktwain
We Can't Even Shoot On Our Own Property

I can and do (East San Diego County).

Fired off a couple of rounds just last night to break up a coyote orgy in my yard.

4 posted on 08/15/2012 1:25:16 PM PDT by South40 ("Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance." Hussein Obama, Cairo, Egypt, June 4, 2009)
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To: TexasFreeper2009
I am sorry but you just can't plop a gun range on your property without permission. I am free to cook... but I can't open a restaurant either

That's an inaccurate comparison. I have friends with 200 acres in Pennsylvania who have shot trap on their property for decades. They also hold massive barbecues, for which they cook more than many restaurants serve in a day. Lawyers, DAs and at least one judge have attended their bashes.

5 posted on 08/15/2012 1:28:45 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it. -- George Bernard Shaw)
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To: South40
There are few things as blood chilling as a pack of coyotes celebrating a kill especially when they are less than 100 yards away and just down the valley some. Santee Lakes area is nearly overrun IMO.
6 posted on 08/15/2012 1:29:22 PM PDT by chaos_5
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To: South40
Fired off a couple of rounds just last night to break up a coyote orgy in my yard.

Must be nice to be able to do that. We're getting raccoons fighting nearly every night at 2 or 3 am and you wouldn't believe the racket they can generate. Unfortunately the only backstop I'd have for shooting one is my neighbor's house. Something tells me that's not an acceptable backstop. (And it's illegal to discharge a firearm in city limits anyway outside of a range or self-defense). Oh well.
7 posted on 08/15/2012 1:32:22 PM PDT by verum ago (A good physical therapist is half friend, half sadist.)
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To: marktwain
That's the problem of having neighbors...

When I went Galt, the property we acquired is over a mile from our nearest neighbor, and they are pro America folks too.

Nothing finer than cutting holes in targets from the back deck while sipping our morning coffee!

8 posted on 08/15/2012 1:33:55 PM PDT by JDoutrider
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To: verum ago

I have a BB/pellet gun that pumps up enough to do the job nicely. The noise is minimal and it is quite accurate.


9 posted on 08/15/2012 1:35:38 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: TexasFreeper2009
I am sorry but you just can't plop a gun range on your property without permission.

Why not? Because some government flunky told you you couldn't?

Freedom. How does it work? :-/

10 posted on 08/15/2012 1:44:14 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: marktwain

It seems that the purpose of any government body is to (1) survive (2) grow, and (3) expand its powers and jurisdiction. Is there no way of legally bloodying their noses?


11 posted on 08/15/2012 1:49:39 PM PDT by I am Richard Brandon
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To: marktwain

Sounds like a local issue.
I know lots of people in Oregon who shoot on private land.


12 posted on 08/15/2012 1:53:48 PM PDT by Zathras
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To: I am Richard Brandon

They’ll keep pushing until somebody flips out and cleans out the county municipal office of all the bureaucratic cockroaches who make a living hindering individual liberty.


13 posted on 08/15/2012 1:56:33 PM PDT by B4Ranch (There's Two Choices... Stand Up and Be Counted ... Or Line Up and Be Numbered .)
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To: B4Ranch
So how does this work out for hunters in Oregon? If all places that a firearm is discharged...
14 posted on 08/15/2012 2:11:09 PM PDT by Vercingetorixbc (Veni, Vedi, Butti - I came, I saw, I kicked butt)
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To: TexasFreeper2009; All

Texas law appears to protect rural landowners from city control:

§ 229.002. Regulation of Discharge of Weapon

A municipality may not apply a regulation relating to the discharge of firearms or other weapons in the extraterritorial jurisdiction of the municipality or in an area annexed by the municipality after September 1, 1981, if the firearm or other weapon is:

(1) a shotgun, air rifle or pistol, BB gun, or bow and arrow discharged:

(A) on a tract of land of 10 acres or more and more than 150 feet from a residence or occupied building located on another property; and

(B) in a manner not reasonably expected to cause a projectile to cross the boundary of the tract; or

(2) a center fire or rim fire rifle or pistol of any caliber discharged:

(A) on a tract of land of Search Term Begin 50 acres Search Term End or more and more than 300 feet from a residence or occupied building located on another property; and

(B) in a manner not reasonably expected to cause a projectile to cross the boundary of the tract.

This is from a Defensivecarry site:

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/general-firearm-discussion/96810-texas-property-laws.html


15 posted on 08/15/2012 2:17:37 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: TexasFreeper2009
TexasFreeper2009 said: "This isn't a typical gun issue, this is an issue of a city being able to regulate a business"

Do you see any limits whatsoever on a city's power to regulate business?

Why is it that you don't think you should be allowed to run a restaurant without permission from a city? Are you under the mistaken impression that being regulated by a city ensures good health?

I've seen plenty of commercial kitchens from which I wouldn't feed a dog. Tell me what benefit you expect from city regulation of restaurants?

16 posted on 08/15/2012 2:18:59 PM PDT by William Tell
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To: chaos_5
I'm near Mt. Miguel where there is a lot of open space. I hear coyotes almost every night but last night they were literally right outside my bedroom window. There are lots of rabbits around here so their prey is plentiful. The motion activated lights did not deter them so I fired my 12 gauge twice and they scattered.

The Santee Lakes area, with its close proximity to the open space to the north has a problem also. I have friends there who say they see them often though I don't believe they hear them.

17 posted on 08/15/2012 2:36:53 PM PDT by South40 ("Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance." Hussein Obama, Cairo, Egypt, June 4, 2009)
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To: marktwain

I know of one county in CO, where a Republican sheriff wants to outlaw firearms discharges, even on large properties. The very sparsely populated area is heavily regulated (like large municipals) by constituents on all political sides. IMO, most local government interests in the West lean to the left and are politically supported mainly by government employees and pensioners/NIMBYs in rural developments (many of them, second homes for suburbanites). They go on about property values. They maintain high and counterproductive property tax rates.

We’re morally bankrupt. That’s the problem. Many who demand increases from politicians in incomes from debt/revenues want service and exclusivity in their communities (no low classed rednecks). The only solution that I know of is that of a slowdown in economic activities while encouraging continuing big spending by the political/regulator class. When they can no longer afford to be so politically active or to perpetuate regulatory interference against real work by productive residents (small manufacturing, agriculture, etc.), then get productive and rebuild.


18 posted on 08/15/2012 2:42:29 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: marktwain

Yea, and try to enforce that new law where I live (very rural/forest). My neighbors and I shoot on a regular basis, and on a weekend it is not uncommon to hear many gunshots coming from several different directions.

One of the reasons I love where I live.


19 posted on 08/15/2012 2:46:07 PM PDT by Wildbill22
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To: TexasFreeper2009
um... I am sorry but you just can't plop a gun range on your property without permission. I am free to cook... but I can't open a restaurant either

this is a rural area acording to the article, as for permission, screw that! If I want to open an ice cream parlor or shooting range in BF Texas, why do I need " permission"?

20 posted on 08/15/2012 3:17:25 PM PDT by MrPiper
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To: TexasFreeper2009
I am sorry but you just can't plop a gun range on your property without permission... This isn't a typical gun issue, this is an issue of a city being able to regulate a business

You might have overlooked the first sentence from the third paragraph: "Jerry Conrady and his wife own 120 acres in rural Lincoln County." Cities prohibit discharging firearms for reasons of public safety, where people live close together. There is no such justification for prohibition on large rural tracts.

21 posted on 08/15/2012 3:18:24 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: marktwain
"Jerry Conrady and his wife own 120 acres in rural Lincoln County. Mr. Conrady is a State certified teacher, has a degree in Gunsmithing from Lassen College and is an Eagle Scout. Mr. Conrady’s wife is an estate paralegal and writer. Neither have any form of criminal record. Mr Conrady gives out free gun locks at Portland gun shows."

Well, well...

"A small group of their neighbors, backed by someone with a good deal of money is now attempting to sue the Conrady’s into poverty and submission."

When clever, tricky anti-Second-Amendment legislation or judicial activism is proposed against people in a lower income class, remember what you've seen from the article. Where corruption is believed to be necessary to keep appearances up and intended to quell the fears of the effeminate, fecal matter rolls downhill for a while. And there's always someone higher (appearing to be more deserving and entitled).

Have fun. Enjoy the slide. During the bond collapse, "haircuts" (political correctness for repudiation) and currency adjustment process, much of the pecking order will be inverted (lost/reduced pensions/incomes from government positions, lost investments, etc.). Learn to make something useful.


22 posted on 08/15/2012 3:23:33 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Beg to disagree it is not about a city regulating a business it is a county govt. f*cking with someone . Their is something seriously rotten in Oregon .

Who is financing the original lawsuit & how are they connected with the county attorney & county board, when you find the answers to these questions you will know who the real crooks are.


23 posted on 08/15/2012 3:36:01 PM PDT by Nebr FAL owner
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To: Vercingetorixbc

Me, I’d stay out of Lincoln County if I was hunting.


24 posted on 08/15/2012 4:12:35 PM PDT by B4Ranch (There's Two Choices... Stand Up and Be Counted ... Or Line Up and Be Numbered .)
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To: marktwain

ALL gun laws are unconstitutional and should be resisted.


25 posted on 08/15/2012 4:13:43 PM PDT by Emperor Palpatine (Tosca, mi fai dimenticare Iddio!!!!!)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Private property rights should be inviolate.

To Hades with petty local officiating by petty Neighborhood Nazis.

This regulatory nonsense is not what the Founding Fathers envisioned.


26 posted on 08/15/2012 4:16:45 PM PDT by Emperor Palpatine (Tosca, mi fai dimenticare Iddio!!!!!)
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To: verum ago

A hose or a Daisy Red Ryder will do nicely....

.....just be careful that you don’t shoot your eye out, Kid....


27 posted on 08/15/2012 4:19:46 PM PDT by Emperor Palpatine (Tosca, mi fai dimenticare Iddio!!!!!)
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To: marktwain

I called and spoke with the woman who was handling the case. She insists in no way was there ever a question about the right of the residents to shoot on their own land. The issue arose over the desire to place a training facility there for the public. (I told her I still didn’t see the problem...)


28 posted on 08/15/2012 4:41:51 PM PDT by tickedoffnow (No more...)
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To: Always A Marine
I see this issue completely differently.

I am 100% sure these people can hunt and do other gun related activities on their land that are of a private nature.

The issue here is whether they can start a commercial gun range business on land that is presumably zoned for residential and or agricultural purposes.

Regulations are there to protect people (in this case the neighbors). I am 100% sure you don't want your neighbor turning his home into an abortion clinic, trailer park, a super walmart or a metal smelting factory.

29 posted on 08/15/2012 4:54:40 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: marktwain

My dream property would be Hickok45’s.


30 posted on 08/15/2012 5:10:32 PM PDT by gusty
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To: Albion Wilde

In PA you can shot on your property if you have a constructed capture box or some kind of structure that will prevent the bullet from traveling 15 feet past the target. The only entity that can pass gun regulations is the state government, not local communities.


31 posted on 08/15/2012 5:13:02 PM PDT by Renegade
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To: gusty

His gun safe must be a walk in job ... and he gets loaners regularly, too. He has a shed set up for reloading, and a range that has the most fun type targets, the ones that ring when you hit them. I’d settle for just the gong!


32 posted on 08/15/2012 5:13:15 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: verum ago
Three word solution: powerful pellet rifle

You will find that a paintball gun works very well, also. If you inject a little hot pepper sauce into the balls, the rascals get the message very quickly and avoid your property.

33 posted on 08/15/2012 5:16:38 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN
Three word solution: powerful pellet rifle

You will find that a paintball gun works very well, also. If you inject a little hot pepper sauce into the balls, the rascals get the message very quickly and avoid your property.


I've gotten no fewer than 5 helpful suggestions on how to deal with them by FReepmail...

I used to have a .22 pellet rifle that would have been perfect; pity I don't anymore.
34 posted on 08/15/2012 5:27:37 PM PDT by verum ago (A good physical therapist is half friend, half sadist.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Why do you keep insisting that they are running a shooting “business,” or a “commercial shooting range?

The full article indicates in fact the complete opposite.


35 posted on 08/15/2012 5:35:33 PM PDT by Fightin Whitey
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To: verum ago

The fluorescent paintball approach will get rid of them via predators which will pick out the flashy ones. Those splotches of paint make great targets in dim light ...


36 posted on 08/15/2012 6:06:47 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: tickedoffnow; All
I called and spoke with the woman who was handling the case. She insists in no way was there ever a question about the right of the residents to shoot on their own land. The issue arose over the desire to place a training facility there for the public. (I told her I still didn’t see the problem...)

Good work. Who did you talk to, and who was she representing? The critical question here seems to be the assertion that:

"The County has taken that to mean that anywhere an individual discharges a firearm is then considered a range and thus they have the right to regulate the discharge of firearms on private property and that anyone who wishes to do so must apply for a conditional use permit."

This should be a matter of fact, that can be backed up with documents.

37 posted on 08/15/2012 6:26:32 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: Fightin Whitey

see post 28

Exactly as I suspected. Sometimes you have to read between the lines on articles like this.


38 posted on 08/15/2012 6:40:04 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009
this is an issue of a city being able to regulate a business

Rural 180 acres? Could be a county issue, but then again we send swat teams out to shut down lemonade stands.

A Texan and a Freeper don't think 180 acres is enough room for a shooter, my, my.

I used to shoot in my back yard in town, now look what has become of us.

39 posted on 08/15/2012 7:00:13 PM PDT by itsahoot (Palin in 2012. Just to pi$$ off the Romney botts.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

What are you talking about?

A guy wants to put an indoor shooting range on his property, which presumably would be quieter than the outside shooting they are doing now.

Where is the commercial or business activity in this?

So some few of his neighbors accuse him of wanting to build “a training facility” on his 120-acre property. Is a big corral a “training facility” for riders and horses? Is a big grill a “training facility” for chefs and restauranteurs? Is a multi-pit horseshoe playing area some kind of ominous “training facility” for shoe pitchers?

Exactly as you “suspected,” hey?

You sound like you would fit in perfectly in Portland and Salem, pal.


40 posted on 08/15/2012 7:27:35 PM PDT by Fightin Whitey
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To: I am Richard Brandon
It seems that the purpose of any government body is to (1) survive (2) grow, and (3) expand its powers and jurisdiction. Is there no way of legally bloodying their noses?

Yes; we can use the Grand jury, particularly the powers of Presentment. The Grand Jury can hold its own investigations, and Presentments are orders for prosecution (that is not-optional).

Sadly, Presentments and investigations are severely discouraged, even to the point that the exercise of such powers is termed the (psychologically dismissive) classification of "runaway".

Furthermore, because the Grand Jury is a body that can prosecute government officials the very government restricts access to them. {Oh they'll say something like 'safety' or 'secrecy' but I don't believe those reasons... just like I don't believe the 'security' reason for the TSA.}

41 posted on 08/15/2012 7:45:47 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Emperor Palpatine

I’ve got a Daisy Red Ryder that my brother got when we were kids on the farm - in the early 1940’s. Still works perfectly -

I only have an acre and a half of land - but a couple hundred of forest beyond my back yard. Sherriff said all I need to do to be able to shoot out there is any neighers down the roda within 150’ - need their permission. That would take in 3 nighbors. Fortunately, all conservative - still, not sure I want them knowing I have guns.

I have a friend with deep woods land I can shoot with and I belong to a private gun range. So, for now, I won’t shoot here.


42 posted on 08/15/2012 8:10:05 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Christian is as Christian does....)
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To: maine-iac7

It is always good to be on good terms with your neighbors. Take them some cookies and get to know them. I gave mine some excellent buckshot loads for Christmas. Better to get to know them now than in a crises.


43 posted on 08/15/2012 8:50:24 PM PDT by marktwain
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