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Pentagon Denies Reports of Russian Sub near U.S.
RIA Novosti ^ | 16 August 2012 | Staff

Posted on 08/17/2012 4:51:36 AM PDT by moonshot925

Pentagon denied on Thursday media reports that a Russian nuclear powered submarine cruised unnoticed for several weeks in the Gulf of Mexico near the shores of the United States.

“I don't know what that information was based on, but it was not correct,” Wendy Snyder, a spokeswoman for the Pentagon, said.

The Washington Free Beacon reported earlier that Russia’s Akula class nuclear powered submarine (Project 971) freely traveled in June and July in the waters of the Gulf of Mexico undetected by the U.S. Navy.

(Excerpt) Read more at en.ria.ru ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: akula; nuclear; project971; submarine
The Akula boats are the quietest submarines the Russians have ever built.

They use a teardrop-shaped double hull construction. The living spaces, torpedo tubes, and most of the machinery are within the stronger inner hull. The ballast tanks and specially adapted gear are located between the inner and outer hulls. This gives it much greater reserve buoyancy.

Anechoic tiles are fitted on casings and fins to absorb the waves of active sonar.

At low speeds of 5-7 knots, the Akula is even quieter than the improved LA class.

1 posted on 08/17/2012 4:51:40 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: moonshot925

Russkie “Bear” Bombers in the Alaska an Arctic areas and subs in the Gulf? I’ve also read (conspiracy InfoWars site) that Spetsnaz SF troops are already on US soil, coming over from Canada. I’m not in that “black helicopter crowd”, but it makes me wonder what 0bummer&TheRegimeFromHell’s up to, if anything or is it just coincidence or BS. DHS ammo stockpiles, riot gear etc etc etc. Nah... nothing to it.


2 posted on 08/17/2012 5:00:40 AM PDT by carriage_hill (Harry Reid [PERVERT-NV] has Vickie-the-goat in lingerie & stiletto heels, tied-up in his office.)
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To: moonshot925
Now we know why Obama stopped us from drilling in the gulf.

: D

3 posted on 08/17/2012 5:04:02 AM PDT by LoveUSA (God employs Man's strength; Satan exploits Man's weakness.)
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To: moonshot925
Now we know why Obama stopped us from drilling in the gulf.

: D

4 posted on 08/17/2012 5:04:02 AM PDT by LoveUSA (God employs Man's strength; Satan exploits Man's weakness.)
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To: moonshot925
Now we know why Obama stopped us from drilling in the gulf.

: D

5 posted on 08/17/2012 5:04:02 AM PDT by LoveUSA (God employs Man's strength; Satan exploits Man's weakness.)
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To: moonshot925

I believe it now.

The Iron Chancellor was right.

“In statecraft, never believe anything until its been officially denied.”

-Otto von Bismarck


6 posted on 08/17/2012 5:12:55 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine (Tosca, mi fai dimenticare Iddio!!!!!)
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To: carriage_hill

“I’ve also read (conspiracy InfoWars site) that Spetsnaz SF troops are already on US soil, coming over from Canada.”

In a recent conversation with a friend associated with the US Army, he stated the Spetsnaz is pretty much washed up and non existent. I’m hoping he’s right.


7 posted on 08/17/2012 5:23:36 AM PDT by redfreedom (Just a simpleton enjoying the freedoms a fly-over/red state has to offer.)
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To: carriage_hill

“I’ve also read (conspiracy InfoWars site) that Spetsnaz SF troops are already on US soil, coming over from Canada.”

In a recent conversation with a friend associated with the US Army, he stated the Spetsnaz is pretty much washed up and non existent. I’m hoping he’s right.


8 posted on 08/17/2012 5:23:51 AM PDT by redfreedom (Just a simpleton enjoying the freedoms a fly-over/red state has to offer.)
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To: moonshot925
You have to understand the way the submarine warfare game is played. Were they there? Maybe, sure, why not? We certainly have sent (and probably continue to send) subs to patrol right off their coastlines.

The real questions are, was the sub detected or not, and if it was detected, was it trailed or not? These are questions we will never know the answers to for sure, because they will never, ever be admitted in public.

One way of looking at it, you want your adversary to come over and patrol - as long as you detect them and can follow them. That allows us to establish their operational patterns, from which we can infer capabilities. Even better if they don't know they were detected and tracked. Otherwise, they may come over and do something screwy, giving you the wrong impression, or they'll change tactics, etc. The upshot is, you want to collect as much information as possible while giving nothing, nothing away in return.

9 posted on 08/17/2012 5:30:29 AM PDT by ThunderSleeps (Stop obama now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: moonshot925

How does anyone know that the sub was not in the Gulf of Mexico?


10 posted on 08/17/2012 5:42:01 AM PDT by CPOSharky (zero slogan: Expect less, pay more. (apologies to Target))
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To: moonshot925

Under Obama, the Pentagon has lost all credibility. If they say “no” the truth is very probably “yes”.


11 posted on 08/17/2012 5:43:06 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: moonshot925

Lately, the Pentagon is as flexible as Barack and will bend over more so if it gets reelected.
If the “Generals” ever take their oath to the Constitution seriously....


12 posted on 08/17/2012 5:43:06 AM PDT by Steamburg (The contents of your wallet is the only language Politicians understand.)
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To: moonshot925

The Pentagon denies.......they tell us what Bam tells them to tell us....... Meanwhile what’s the latest on the reports that they have a scenario involving the T-Party IN the USA?


13 posted on 08/17/2012 5:44:15 AM PDT by kenmcg (t)
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To: CPOSharky
How does anyone know that the sub was not in the Gulf of Mexico?

That's the question they're counting on you to be too dumb to ask.

14 posted on 08/17/2012 5:48:21 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: moonshot925
I have to say, your comments are similar to what one might find on a cereal box. It's not that most of them are false, it's that they're so generic that they add little to this story.

Most modern subs built in the last 30 years utilize a "teardrop-shaped hull," and yes, most of the major machinery, and certainly the living spaces are within the inner hull. Anechoic tiles are routinely used on submarine surfaces to absorb active sonar.

Submarine construction, quieting programs and sensors are much more sophisticated than some of the features you mention. Dampening machinery and noise goes much further than simply using a double-hull coated in sound-absorbing tile. What about flow noise? What about sound associated with the propulsion system; e.g., the propeller?

Being quiet at 5-7 knots is great, but what happens to the sound profile if the submarine has to go at speed, such as when they're trying to evade a torpedo? Also, it would be interesting to know how you might be knowledgable about their level of sound. Also, despite their superiority throughout the Cold War, the LA class has been surpassed by the Seawolf and Virginia class submarines (though I'm sure the Obama administration is doing what they can to stop the program as much as they can.) These are subs that can run quiet at speeds in excess of 20 knots.

15 posted on 08/17/2012 5:52:22 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: moonshot925

I believe it because Obama’s responsibility would have been to sink the damn thing.

A responsibility Obama is singularly unequipped to execute.


16 posted on 08/17/2012 6:05:09 AM PDT by G Larry (Progressives are Regressive because their objectives devolve to the lowest common denominator.)
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To: Lou L
The Improved Akula SSN, which went to sea in 1990, soon revealed that the Soviets had surpassed the U.S. Navy in some areas of acoustic quieting--the Improved Akula was quieter than our newest attack submarines, the Improved LOS ANGELES class. Admiral J.M. Boorda, the Chief of Naval Operations, told the House:

This is the first time since we put NAUTILUS to sea that [the Russians] have had submarines at sea quieter than ours. As you know, quieting is everything in submarine warfare.

SOURCE

17 posted on 08/17/2012 6:16:37 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: G Larry
I believe it because Obama’s responsibility would have been to sink the damn thing.

Overwhelming majority of the Gulf of Mexico is international waters. They have a right to be there, same as the right the USN has to be in the Black Sea.

18 posted on 08/17/2012 6:19:49 AM PDT by Strategerist
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To: onedoug
Under Obama, the Pentagon has lost all credibility. If they say “no” the truth is very probably “yes”.

The one thing I do know is that Bill Gertz is mostly an idiot and has very little credibilty; the problem is given his subject matter and the way he writes his articles, demonstrating he's an idiot that often doesn't understand what he's writing about requires reliance on classified information.

19 posted on 08/17/2012 6:22:10 AM PDT by Strategerist
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To: Emperor Palpatine

“In statecraft,never believe anything until its been officially denied.”

-Otto von Bismarck

Das goot!


20 posted on 08/17/2012 6:23:31 AM PDT by vanilla swirl (searching for something meaningfull to say)
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To: redfreedom
he stated the Spetsnaz is pretty much washed up and non existent. I’m hoping he’s right.

You may call me washed up ...maybe, but I definitely exist. LOL.

But seriously, 'Spetsnaz' simply means soldiers of or for special purpose and thus covers a whole range of abilities. For instance, SWAT working for the Russian internal police are Spetsnaz ...as are military special operations forces. Thus, to use American forces as a comparative base, 'Spetsnaz' covers everything from local PD SWAT, through to better-than-average National Guard troops, all the way to Army Rangers, to a (very small) group of real Tier One DEVGRU and CAG operatives. Thus, most Spetsnaz are not special at all and wouldn't be a match for the most average of US Army or Marines squads.

However, there is a very small group that is real Tier One (primarily the Alpha and Vympel units) that are the real deal. They have top funding, can chose whatever equipment they want, and have topnotch training ...not to mention experience fighting certain radicals in Dagestan and Chechnya.

These Spetsnaz are really good and the men are highly motivated, however these Spetsnaz are by far the minority. It is these men who gave the Mujahadeen dreams of Allah in Afghanistan, and would be sent at night during the Second Chechen war. If there were to be any Spetsnaz operating in the US it would be from either Alpha or Vympel (or a similar unknown Spetsnaz group).

On average most Spetsnaz would be, to use an American base again, best seen as an inferior version of Army Rangers. There are some who are even below this ...as mentioned above basically at SWAT level. Only the Alpha and Vympel Spetsnaz units are the 'crazy' ones, and are roughly comparable to any leading Special Forces unit in the world.

21 posted on 08/17/2012 6:23:42 AM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: Lou L
Seawolf and Virginia class submarines (though I'm sure the Obama administration is doing what they can to stop the program as much as they can.)

The latest USN 30-year shipbuilding plan issued this year actually added several Virginia-class boats.

22 posted on 08/17/2012 6:27:41 AM PDT by Strategerist
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To: redfreedom; carriage_hill

“I’ve also read (conspiracy InfoWars site) that Spetsnaz SF troops are already on US soil,coming over from Canada.”

I think what can be verified (I saw it on an official looking military news sight) is that 20 Russians (maybe spetsnaz) were training in Colorado to learn about our small arms.

That story grew exponentially.


23 posted on 08/17/2012 6:28:56 AM PDT by vanilla swirl (searching for something meaningfull to say)
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To: Strategerist
same as the right the USN has to be in the Black Sea

There was an incident.

On 12 February 1988 USS Yorktown (CG 48) and USS Caron (DD 970) entered the 12 mile limit of Soviet territorial waters off the Crimean Peninsula and they were rammed by Mirka class frigates.

WATCH HERE

24 posted on 08/17/2012 6:32:37 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: moonshot925

““I don’t know what that information was based on, “

Translation: “I don’t know how that info got out.”


25 posted on 08/17/2012 6:52:14 AM PDT by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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To: CPOSharky
How does anyone know that the sub was not in the Gulf of Mexico?

How do we know that it was? Was it spotted by anyone? Show up in a Venezuelan or Cuban port? Saying it was is a great selling point that can't be proven or disproven.

26 posted on 08/17/2012 6:57:47 AM PDT by Delhi Rebels (There was a row in Silver Street - the regiments was out.)
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To: moonshot925

Just doin’ a little shrimpin’. Nothin’ like shrimp marinated in vodka.


27 posted on 08/17/2012 7:22:33 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: moonshot925; Lou L

Moonshot925 — You do realize that you are citing information from a speech given back in 1997, correct?
And, you realize you are using information that is fully 15 years old on its face, and that the man was speaking about the submarine that had already been in the sea for 7 years BEFORE he even gave that speech, right?
You should probably also consider the fact that what we know as members of the general public, and indeed even what our military leaders will talk about in public is very likely not the whole story, right?


28 posted on 08/17/2012 7:55:35 AM PDT by LibertyRocks
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To: moonshot925
“The Improved Akula SSN, which went to sea in 1990, soon revealed that the Soviets had surpassed the U.S. Navy in some areas of acoustic quieting—the Improved Akula was quieter than our newest attack submarines, the Improved LOS ANGELES class. Admiral J.M. Boorda, the Chief of Naval Operations, told the House:

This is the first time since we put NAUTILUS to sea that [the Russians] have had submarines at sea quieter than ours. As you know, quieting is everything in submarine warfare.”

This statement by Polmar and the quote from Adm. Boorda are almost 20 years old. How are they relevant to a comparative assessment of US and Russian submarines today?

SOURCE

29 posted on 08/17/2012 8:02:04 AM PDT by riverdawg
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To: moonshot925

I worry far less about a Russian nuclear powered submarine being off our shores, than I do about the Kenyan presently contaminating our White House.

If the Russian’s were actually there, they were likely testing, training and/or sending us a message, unlike Obama and the democrats that are destroying our country.

Regardless, I would trust the word of Pravda far more than Obama’s Pentagon.


30 posted on 08/17/2012 8:08:06 AM PDT by Gator113 (I would have voted for NEWT, now it's Ryan and the other guy.~Just livin' life, my way~)
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To: LibertyRocks; riverdawg

The objective is the same as it has always has been.

Disrupting, dismantling and defeating Al-Qaeda. Deny sponsorship, support and sanctuary to Al-Qaeda.

We have killed so many top Al-Qaeda leaders. There is only one left and that is al-Zawahiri.


31 posted on 08/17/2012 8:26:45 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: riverdawg

How are they not relevant? I was comparing the improved Akula class to the improved LA class. They are about the same with the Akula quieter at 5-7 knots.

I am not talking about the Seawolf or Virginia . They are both much quieter than the LA and Akula.


32 posted on 08/17/2012 8:34:43 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: moonshot925; Lou L; riverdawg

What in the world does Al-Qaeda have to do with this discussion of a Russian Submarine possibly having been patrolling in the Gulf of Mexico, and your citation of a source that is over 15 years old in regards to the US Navy’s Submarine Capabilities???

Did you post to the wrong thread?


33 posted on 08/17/2012 9:30:25 AM PDT by LibertyRocks
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To: moonshot925

Also, out of curiosity - do you not know that Al-Qaeda really is one ‘small’ part of the terrorist organization of the Muslim Brotherhood? The MB is the umbrella under which they all operate whether AQ, Hamas, Hezbollah, and many many others... Just FYI.


34 posted on 08/17/2012 9:33:28 AM PDT by LibertyRocks
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To: LibertyRocks

Yeah, sorry about that.

Anyway, the Seawolf and Virginia classes are much quieter than the Akula and improved Akula. But the improved Akula did pose somewhat a threat in the early 1990’s when it was at parity or slightly quieter than the improved LA class.


35 posted on 08/17/2012 9:39:47 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: riverdawg; LibertyRocks
This chart was made by the US Naval Institute


36 posted on 08/17/2012 9:46:05 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: moonshot925
They use a teardrop-shaped double hull construction. The living spaces, torpedo tubes, and most of the machinery are within the stronger inner hull. The ballast tanks and specially adapted gear are located between the inner and outer hulls. This gives it much greater reserve buoyancy. Anechoic tiles are fitted on casings and fins to absorb the waves of active sonar. At low speeds of 5-7 knots, the Akula is even quieter than the improved LA class.

You know your stuff - so what's your best guess - were they in the Gulf or not?

37 posted on 08/17/2012 9:55:28 AM PDT by GOPJ ("Family: One of God's masterpieces." sign at Chris McMurray's bakery - Crumb and Get It)
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To: moonshot925
But the improved Akula did pose somewhat a threat in the early 1990’s when it was at parity or slightly

After the fall of the Berlin Wall (thank you, President Reagan and allies), the Russians weren't much of a threat. This is just my take on things, but Russian priorities changed. Being a global naval power requires established logistics, well-trained sailors, and money to maintain and project that naval power. A lot of that broke down, as did much of their capability to continue their R&D and funding of new programs.

If anything, a rogue Akula (or one sold to a terrorist organization), could serve as a delivery system for an explosive device. Perhaps at very slow speeds, one could navigate such a sub into harbor somewhere--assuming you had potent enough explosives, and enough training to operate and navigate from wherever you originated. You'd still have to evade SOSUS lines, and other allied subs. If you were detected, the gig would be up.

38 posted on 08/17/2012 9:57:31 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: Emperor Palpatine

“In statecraft, never believe anything until its been officially denied.”
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
That is why, when we ‘invaded’ Iraq, we didnt find Weapons of Mass Destruction because they were there - or at least had been.

If we didn’t think or knew there were none, we would have ‘planted’ them so as to find them.


39 posted on 08/17/2012 10:07:51 AM PDT by xrmusn (6/98 "It is virtually impossible to clean the pond as long as the pigs are still crapping in it")
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To: moonshot925
Wow!

I went to St. Pete Beach several times and never saw anything but some ugly tattoos.

40 posted on 08/17/2012 10:11:32 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys=Can't drive, can't ski, can't fly, can't skipper a boat, but they know what's best for you.)
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To: Lou L

SOSUS was decommissioned by Clinton in the 1990’s.

The NAVFACs were closed.

All that is left is the Naval Ocean Processing Facility at Whidbey Island and the IUSS Operations Support Center at Norfolk, Virginia.


41 posted on 08/17/2012 10:18:29 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: GOPJ
so what's your best guess - were they in the Gulf or not I'm gonna say no. A vessel could go into the Gulf undetected. But I highly doubt that it would go undetected for weeks.
42 posted on 08/17/2012 10:25:19 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: GOPJ
so what's your best guess - were they in the Gulf or not

I'm gonna say no. A vessel could go into the Gulf undetected. But I highly doubt that it would go undetected for weeks.

43 posted on 08/17/2012 10:25:54 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: moonshot925
“How are they not relevant? I was comparing the improved Akula class to the improved LA class. They are about the same with the Akula quieter at 5-7 knots.”

When an LA-class sub goes in for an Engineered Overhaul, it gets state-of-the-art upgrades to virtually every system, including propulsion. The refurbished LA-class subs are going to be quieter than the “improved” LA-class subs built 20 years ago.

44 posted on 08/17/2012 11:01:37 AM PDT by riverdawg
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To: moonshot925
Pentagon Denies Reports of Russian Sub near U.S.

Of course they would!

45 posted on 08/17/2012 11:32:05 AM PDT by Minutemen ("It's a Religion of Peace")
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To: moonshot925
yeah, and a lot of the credit goes to Toshiba who sold sophisticated, nine axis milling equipment to the Soviets along with the computer control systems to machine their screws...
46 posted on 08/17/2012 3:03:19 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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