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Why Race Is Still a Problem for Mormons
New York Times ^ | August 18, 2012 | John G Turner

Posted on 08/19/2012 9:25:25 AM PDT by greyfoxx39


.................In a June 1978 letter, the first presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaimed that “all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color.” Men of African descent could now hold the priesthood....

The revelation may have lifted the ban, but it neither repudiated it nor apologized for it. “It doesn’t make a particle of difference,” proclaimed the Mormon apostle Bruce R. McConkie a few months later, “what anybody ever said about the Negro matter before the first day of June of this year, 1978.”

McConkie meant such words to encourage Mormons to embrace the new revelation, and he may have solemnly believed that it made the history of the priesthood ban irrelevant. But to many others around the country, statements of former church leaders about “the Negro matter” do, in fact, matter a great deal.

The church would benefit itself and its members — and one member in particular, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee — by formally repudiating the priesthood ban and the racist theories that accompanied it.

-SNIP-

The priesthood ban had sweeping ecclesiastical consequences for black Mormons. They could not participate in the sacred ordinances, like the endowment ceremony (which prepares one for the afterlife) and sealings (which formally bind a family together), rites that Smith and Young taught were necessary to obtain celestial glory.

-SNIP-

Most Protestant denominations, however, gradually apologized for their past racism


(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: California; US: Colorado; US: Indiana; US: Tennessee
KEYWORDS: africanamericans; blackvote; brighamyoung; faith; hereitcomes; inman; ldschurch; liberalism; racebaiters; racism; toldyaso
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It's mind-boggling that Rove, the RNC and Romney thought it wise to run a member of a religion with a proven, published racist doctrine until 1978 against a black man.

******************************

Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College/Online College Level, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954.

"God has commanded Israel not to intermarry. To go against this commandment of God would be in sin. Those who willfully sin with their eyes open to this wrong will not be surprised to find that they will be separated from the presence of God in the world to come. This is spiritual death...."

Race Problems -- As They Affect The Church-Mark E. Peterson

Mark E. Peterson-A Giant Among Men-LDS.org 1984

1 posted on 08/19/2012 9:25:31 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: greyfoxx39

The original title “Why Mormonism Is Still a Problem for The New York Times” didn’t get past the editorial department.


2 posted on 08/19/2012 9:29:09 AM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: greyfoxx39

I thought the NY Times went bankrupt.Were they bought out by Pravda or The Peoples’ Daily?


3 posted on 08/19/2012 9:29:38 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The Word Is Out,Harry Reid's Into Child Porn.Release All Your Photos,Harry!)
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To: greyfoxx39

I find it odd that “race” isn’t a “problem” for the commie ‘RATS. The GOP had to drag the ‘RATS, kicking and screaming, to the dance during many civil rights battles. George Wallace and Algore Sr. weren’t Republicans.


4 posted on 08/19/2012 9:31:00 AM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Had enough of the freaks running the show yet?)
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To: greyfoxx39

Wow. You had to go to the New York Times to find an article you are sympatico with!

But the NYT is using this article to try to upstart another distraction for Romney to have to address - to keep the focus off of Obama’s failed record.

Come to think of it - that’s the same reason you’re using it.


5 posted on 08/19/2012 9:31:14 AM PDT by alicewonders (I like the GOP Briefing Room for rational adult debate.)
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To: alicewonders
Wow. You had to go to the New York Times to find an article you are sympatico with!

I guess you aren't aware that the New York Times gives the marching orders for most of the media. This will be a meme picked up by the networks and other print media...

This is proven fact, and attempts to sidetrack will only give it more exposure.

I have been warning since '07 that if Mitt were to be the candidate this very thing would happen.

6 posted on 08/19/2012 9:37:11 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Obama thanks you for your support.
7 posted on 08/19/2012 9:38:51 AM PDT by Kansas58
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To: greyfoxx39

Realistically, this is just starting. It is no surprise the NYT is leading off, but I doubt it will be alone. A history of racism is the history of the LDS (mormonic) group.

No doubt, you will be castigated for showing the first instance because of the source. Don’t let it bother you. There are non-thinking conservatives, just like with any other group. They tend to have a knee jerk reaction to the source, instead of the message and its implications.

Such is life.

The bottom line will remain, RINOmney, the mormon, will be confronted with his membership in a historically racist group - as a young adult. He will have to provide an answer. It is how elections work.


8 posted on 08/19/2012 9:39:05 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I'm comfortable with a Romney win." - Pres. Jimmy Carter)
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To: greyfoxx39
Really? Who is the one with the racism in the closet? Romney's family marched for Civil Rights while Obama himself marched with the African-American's version of the KKK.


9 posted on 08/19/2012 9:40:28 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: greyfoxx39

Gee, I never saw the Slimes run a story like this when Harry Reid was running for office. Go figure.


10 posted on 08/19/2012 9:41:57 AM PDT by Hoodat ("As for God, His way is perfect" - Psalm 18:30)
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To: greyfoxx39

Funny though, the new york times has no problem with Islam. The religion that CURRENTLTY believes among other things that:

women must be subjugated in nearly every way, including if they are are raped they are required to be killed to alleviate “shame”

Christians, other non muslims, gays and dissentors should be murdered and sometimes even cricified

Could it be the NYT is engaging in an absurdly hypocritical, self serving attack on Romney?

Absolutely


11 posted on 08/19/2012 9:42:25 AM PDT by Cubs Fan (whites are 8 times more likely to be victimized by black criminals than blacks by white criminals)
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To: greyfoxx39
God has commanded Israel not to intermarry. To go against this commandment of God would be in sin.

They be confused about what God was commanding. He was prohibiting intermarriage with unbelievers, not those of differing ethnicity.

Moses married a black women. Mirian, his sister, was struck by God with leprosy when she made a racist fuss about it.

At least two of the female ancestors of Jesus mentioned by name in the Bible were non-Jews, Ruth the Moabitess and Rahab the Canaanite. It is reasonable that others also were, especially since the Bible contains explicit laws about the procedures involved in taking women captured in battle as wives.

This is besides the fact that Israelite and Judean kings, one side of his ancestry, frequently made diplomatic marriage to foreign women, and some of them may have equally been in his line.

12 posted on 08/19/2012 9:42:25 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: greyfoxx39

Isn’t it interesting that you’re getting all this flack just for linking a published article that will be read by thousands of people.

Yea, FreeRepublic, it’s just better that we hide our heads in the sand and not talk about Romney’s history of racism....yeppers, that should do the trick.

Sheesh, like it’s grefoxx’s problem. Attack the messenger - that’s the ticket.


13 posted on 08/19/2012 9:44:13 AM PDT by colorcountry (The gospel will transform our politics, not vice versa (Romans 12:1,2))
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To: greyfoxx39

Aren’t you late for your conference call with the rest of the freeper cabal to get this weeks talking points? I always enjoy them. I am confident that Romney is going to win despite yours and others best efforts.


14 posted on 08/19/2012 9:44:55 AM PDT by WatchOutForSnakes
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To: mnehring
Really? Who is the one with the racism in the closet? Romney's family marched for Civil Rights while Obama himself marched with the African-American's version of the KKK.

Really? You believe that this is going to be mentioned on MSNBCCNNABCCBSNBC?

Dream on.

15 posted on 08/19/2012 9:45:51 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: mnehring
Great photo of George Romney. Thanks for posting.

"The rights of some must not be enjoyed by denying the rights of others. Neither can we permit states' rights at the expense of human rights . . . The chief cornerstone of our freedom is divinely endowed citizenship for all equally regardless of pigmentation, creed or race."

-George Romney-

16 posted on 08/19/2012 9:47:59 AM PDT by Hoodat ("As for God, His way is perfect" - Psalm 18:30)
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To: greyfoxx39

I can guarantee that if someone were a muslim and running for office the NYT would be the first saying anybody who complained would be a horrible bigot—

even though islam in the year 2012 (not 1978) is the most hateful, murderous, and intolerant religion on the planet.


17 posted on 08/19/2012 9:50:51 AM PDT by Cubs Fan (whites are 8 times more likely to be victimized by black criminals than blacks by white criminals)
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To: greyfoxx39

It’s mind-boggling that a FReeper posts an article from the old gray ‘lady’ ... and agrees with it!


18 posted on 08/19/2012 9:53:52 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: greyfoxx39

Hmmmm. I must have missed the Slimes piece on how race is “still a problem” with Black Liberation Theologists like their butt boy Obozo.


19 posted on 08/19/2012 9:55:06 AM PDT by MCH
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To: Servant of the Cross

“It’s mind-boggling that a FReeper posts an article from the old gray ‘lady’ ... and agrees with it!”

Not really, not if you think about what’s been going on here the last 2 or 3 weeks.


20 posted on 08/19/2012 9:57:52 AM PDT by WatchOutForSnakes
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To: greyfoxx39
Really? You believe that this is going to be mentioned on MSNBCCNNABCCBSNBC? Dream on.

so, is that what you're saying, ALL we should care about, is what is "mentioned" on MSNBCCNNABCCBSNBC?

because that would be really stupid

21 posted on 08/19/2012 9:57:52 AM PDT by Cubs Fan (whites are 8 times more likely to be victimized by black criminals than blacks by white criminals)
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To: greyfoxx39

The Civil Rights Act was only signed 14 years prior (1964)to this. It’s my understanding that racism and segregation were quite common up until 1964. Hmmm. Even after this date.

Busing? Forced desegregation? 1972. George Wallace, Democrat Segregationist running for President. 1972.

Let’s see. Fourteen years ago we had Bill Clinton being impeached.

Eleven years ago were the 9/11 attacks.


22 posted on 08/19/2012 10:00:08 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Congrats to Ted Kennedy! He's been sober for two years now!!)
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To: greyfoxx39

I’ll let you in on a little secret smear boy, if the dems keep playing the race card over and over the american people will get very sick of it and it will start showing in the polls against your buddy Obama, that is if it already hasn’t.


23 posted on 08/19/2012 10:01:56 AM PDT by Cubs Fan (whites are 8 times more likely to be victimized by black criminals than blacks by white criminals)
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To: Servant of the Cross
It’s mind-boggling that a FReeper posts an article from the old gray ‘lady’ ... and agrees with it

It's mind-boggling that someone can hide his head in the sand and ignore LDS sourced facts about Mitt....OH....NO....WAIT!....

24 posted on 08/19/2012 10:02:37 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: greyfoxx39

First of all, consider the source, NYT. That paper has no problem with other religions.....this is not exactly a hit piece but the propaganda resonates that way. The ‘usual crowd’ hates Catholics, ‘Born Again, Most Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, Buddhists...and so on....you get the picture. Picking a fight with the Mormon beliefs is the politically correct thing to do during an election for Obamaites and Progressives....Obama was raised by Communists who didn’t like America and believed in a political religion....hummmmmm.


25 posted on 08/19/2012 10:02:44 AM PDT by yoe (Vote for your Country, not a political party. or personal issues.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Really? You believe that this is going to be mentioned on MSNBCCNNABCCBSNBC?

Nope. But it will be covered on the alternative conservative media ... e.g. Rush: Democrats: The Party of Racism ... and you'd think it would also be what you see on FR?

26 posted on 08/19/2012 10:03:10 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Sherman Logan
They be confused about what God was commanding. He was prohibiting intermarriage with unbelievers, not those of differing ethnicity.

You obviously did not click the link to the Peterson article. I suggest you do so. You will find THIS:

The reason that one would lose his blessings by marrying a Negro is due to the restriction placed upon them. "No person having the least particle of Negro blood can hold the Priesthood" (Brigham Young). It does not matter if they are one-sixth Negro or one-hundred and sixth, the curse of no Priesthood is the same. If an individual who is entitled to the Priesthood marries a Negro, the Lord has decreed that only spirits who are not eligible for the Priesthood will come to that marriage as children. To intermarry with a Negro is to forfeit a "Nation of Priesthood holders"....

Peterson's racist rant

(Try this one, Dengar)

27 posted on 08/19/2012 10:04:37 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Mr. Obama sat nodding his head to the sermons of Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years and the New York Times is slinging mud at Gov. Mitt Romney? I don't know whether to laugh or cry!!
28 posted on 08/19/2012 10:08:03 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: greyfoxx39

Those were cultural beliefs of the time as much as they were part of their church. You can find statements from may American churches just like this; from Baptist to Pentecostal.

Why get into the liberals trick of guilt by association. They have used the same tactic against other Republicans because of past beliefs of their church.

Group damnation is just as much a liberal fallacy as group salvation.


29 posted on 08/19/2012 10:08:19 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: mnehring
Why get into the liberals trick of guilt by association. They have used the same tactic against other Republicans because of past beliefs of their church.

Guilt by association??

Mitt has stated his 100% loyalty to his religion. He was an adult when this racist policy was in effect. He associated himself with this policy.

Hmmm...let me see....this article is in the NYT, will be seen by hundreds of thousands, will be picked up by other media...and FR is supposed to just ignore it? That would make you happy?

Got it.

30 posted on 08/19/2012 10:13:22 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: greyfoxx39

Not ignore it, debunk the liberal crap. His family’s history fighting for Civil rights is more than enough to debunk this.

When have we just wanted liberal propaganda to pass as fact without taking it apart? No need to hide, we should treat it like anything else from the NYSlimes and debunk it like every other piece of liberal propaganda.


31 posted on 08/19/2012 10:17:23 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: greyfoxx39

What would you have him do? Invite a black guy to dinner? Didn’t somebody already do that movie?


32 posted on 08/19/2012 10:17:48 AM PDT by WatchOutForSnakes
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To: colorcountry

“... and not talk about Romney’s history of racism.”

Well then you go ahead tell us his history of racism.

Everyday you clowns become as damn nuts as the left-wing source material you have to link to in order to back up your assertions.


33 posted on 08/19/2012 10:19:13 AM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: WatchOutForSnakes
Didn’t somebody already do that movie?


34 posted on 08/19/2012 10:21:26 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Congrats to Ted Kennedy! He's been sober for two years now!!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Mr. Obama sat nodding his head to the sermons of Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years

yep and he did it a lot more recently than 1978

35 posted on 08/19/2012 10:22:06 AM PDT by Cubs Fan (whites are 8 times more likely to be victimized by black criminals than blacks by white criminals)
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To: greyfoxx39
Really? You believe that this is going to be mentioned on MSNBCCNNABCCBSNBC?

So we should just bow to the talking points of the MSNBCCNNABCCBSNBC instead of debunking them? This is the new media, that is the old media. We should be wrestling the truth from the propaganda of lies that the old media cultivates, not spreading the lies unchecked.

36 posted on 08/19/2012 10:22:06 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: mnehring
we should treat it like anything else from the NYSlimes and debunk it like every other piece of liberal propaganda.

Debunk away. Start by providing sources that "debunk" the facts in the article.

I doubt your assertion that "His family’s history fighting for Civil rights is more than enough to debunk this"....just how many media outlets do you honestly believe are going to join you in this "debunking" crusade?

I'm sorry that the facts are not to your liking.

37 posted on 08/19/2012 10:22:06 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Why Race Is Still a Problem for Mormons

Oh nooosssssss - quick run around in circles... Who gives a crap? Compared to what or whom?

38 posted on 08/19/2012 10:25:49 AM PDT by Altura Ct.
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To: greyfoxx39
Well, for example, the Romney family's own history of fighting for civil rights.

George Romney pushed an aggressive civil rights agenda

::snip::ANN ARBOR, Mich. - In 1963, an explosive year in the quest for civil rights, George Romney appeared unannounced in the mostly white suburb of Grosse Pointe and marched to the front of an anti-segregation demonstration to stand beside black leaders. Letters from startled constituents poured into the office of the first-term Michigan governor, whose son Mitt was then 16. Supporters who had helped him win his narrow victory the previous November said his actions made him "a double-crosser" and a "Judas to the people that voted for you." Their diatribes were sprinkled with warnings that they would work against him: "You are a ’dead duck’ for 1964," one detractor typed above a newspaper photograph of a shirt-sleeved Romney walking shoulder to shoulder with civil rights activists. The elder Romney pressed ahead with an aggressive civil rights agenda that ultimately put him at odds with the leaders of his party. He refused to back Barry Goldwater as the 1964 Republican presidential nominee because, he told Goldwater in a letter, he was alarmed by indications that Goldwater’s strategists "proposed to make an all-out push for the Southern white segregationist vote" and "exploit the so-called ’white backlash’ in the North." George Romney began pushing reforms to end discrimination toward minorities in housing soon after taking office in 1963 - work that would lead to his highly controversial effort to integrate the nation’s white suburbs as President Richard Nixon’s secretary of Housing and Urban Development. He launched his own 1968 presidential run after a 19-day tour of the ghettos of 17 cities, turning a spotlight on the decay and overcrowding that had contributed to riots in Detroit and elsewhere.

39 posted on 08/19/2012 10:28:49 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: Cubs Fan

He’d be doing it to this day if they hadn’t taped those sermons.


40 posted on 08/19/2012 10:28:50 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: greyfoxx39

I am perfectly well aware of BY’s position on the issue.

My post was to defend the Bible against the implication that it is racist.

Which it is not.

That’s the problem with “living prophets.” Their prophecies, which oddly enough tend to fit the prejudices of the times, often become a little more difficult to swallow when those prejudices change.


41 posted on 08/19/2012 10:31:14 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: greyfoxx39
just how many media outlets do you honestly believe are going to join you in this "debunking" crusade? I'm sorry that the facts are not to your liking.

you have that backwards don't you? You seem to think the only "facts" that matter are the ones the liberal media will let through their filter.

lots of freepers have mentioned the dems history on the '64 civil rigthts bill, romneys fathers marching for civil rights when al gores father and other dems were opposing them. Theyve also mentioned Jeremiah Wright's sermons, and the hypocrisy of the left trashing mormonism while they stick up for the worlds most hateful religion, islam.

These are the facts that will come out on fox, through conservative poundits and talk radio etc. These facts which you have dismissed over and over, obviously not to YOUR liking

42 posted on 08/19/2012 10:33:52 AM PDT by Cubs Fan (whites are 8 times more likely to be victimized by black criminals than blacks by white criminals)
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To: greyfoxx39

Why Journalism Is Still A Problem For The NYT


43 posted on 08/19/2012 10:33:52 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: greyfoxx39

I am going to give you one more little piece of information on why posting these things without due diligence or debunking doesn’t help. When you Google the title of this article, the article you posted just an hour ago, this thread is already #3 in Google rankings.

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Why+Race+Is+Still+a+Problem+for+Mormons%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Right below the original NYT article and the Democrat Underground reprint.

You may not want it, but FR has a powerful responsibility to push for truth versus spread the lies of the left.

In the past, propaganda hit pieces from the NY Slimes would have a ‘Barf Alert’ in the title and be followed by a lot of debunking by the OP. Not, bolding and cheering the propaganda like you did.


44 posted on 08/19/2012 10:40:31 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: greyfoxx39
The church would benefit itself and its members — and one member in particular, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee — by formally repudiating the priesthood ban and the racist theories that accompanied it.

If they apologize, then they admit that the Church and its founders/leaders were wrong, and they will not do that.
45 posted on 08/19/2012 10:41:04 AM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: mnehring
Well, for example, the Romney family's own history of fighting for civil rights.

What about all the many Romney's who were not running for President?

46 posted on 08/19/2012 10:43:00 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: mnehring
You may not want it, but FR has a powerful responsibility to push for truth versus spread the lies of the left.

Point out the lies in the article.

47 posted on 08/19/2012 10:47:19 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: greyfoxx39
You tell me. If you care to keep pushing this leftist narrative, find an example as specific as I posted against it, showing some other Romney close to Mitt opposing Civil Rights- not just generic guilt by association.

If we don't stop this bull, the next person this attack is used against will be someone we like. How long until our next Baptist candidate is painted with the same brush due to the history of the SBC? What about all the Pentecostal churches with their racist history; should that damn any Pentecostal candidate in the future?

48 posted on 08/19/2012 10:49:07 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: VeniVidiVici

Jimmy Carter, a Southern Baptist, was elected President in 1976.

His church was specifically set up in the 1840s when southern Baptists seceded to protect black slavery. IOW, a position far more activist in racism than the Mormons, who were generally at least opposed to slavery.

Many of the SBC’s members and leaders continued to defend racist policies into the 60s and quite possibly up to Jimmuh’s election.

The SBC did not specifically denounce and apologize for its racist past till 1995, 150 years after its foundation to defend slavery and long after Jimmuh was out of office.

Yet I recall little criticism of Jimmuh for being associated with a “racist church.”

The president in 1995 was Bill Clinton, also a Southern Baptist. I don’t recall the racist past of his denomination being an issue in 1991, 4 years before its apology.


49 posted on 08/19/2012 10:49:42 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: greyfoxx39
Let's see if I can get this correct.
Post in the Religion Forum about Mormonism and people bitch that's an attack on Romney and you are a bigot Obama supporter.
Post in the News Forum about Mormonism and people bitch that's an attack on Romney and you are a bigot Obama supporter.
Post in the General Chat or Smokey Back Room Forums about Mormonism and people bitch that's an attack on Romney and you are a bigot Obama supporter.
So apparently the history of Mormonism exposed is an attack on Romney and you are a bigot Obama supporter.
Wouldn't it be nice to actually address the issue or issues in the post and not attack the poster?
One can dream I suppose.
50 posted on 08/19/2012 10:53:29 AM PDT by roylene (Salvation the great Gift of Grace.)
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