Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Golden Nugget suing card manufacturer after unshuffled cards lead to big winnings for gamblers
nj.com ^ | August 21, 2012

Posted on 08/21/2012 5:05:53 AM PDT by grundle

ATLANTIC CITY — At first, it seemed like a coincidence, the kind of thing that happens from time to time at a casino, where the same number or same sequence of cards happens twice in a row.

But when the players at an April game of mini-baccarat at the Golden Nugget Atlantic City kept seeing the same sequence of cards dealt, over and over and over again, their eyes grew wide and their bets grew bigger, zooming from $10 a hand to $5,000.

Forty-one consecutive winning hands later, the 14 players had racked up more than $1.5 million in winnings — surrounded by casino security convinced they had cheated but unable to prove how.

In a lawsuit against a Kansas City playing card manufacturer, the Golden Nugget contends the cards were unshuffled, despite being promised to be pre-shuffled and ready to use.

It is so basic to the concept of gambling that it often goes without saying: the cards in the deck need to be shuffled before anyone uses them. But in the case of the Golden Nugget, the gamblers did nothing wrong, and deserve to be paid the nearly $1 million they still have coming to them, according to their lawyer, Benjamin Dash.

But in a lawsuit filed against the 14 gamblers in July, that is exactly what the casino seeks, citing state gambling regulations requiring all casino games to offer fair odds — to both sides. The casino's lawsuit asserts the gamblers and the casino both began the game believing it was legal and proper — until the players kept winning over and over again.

The Golden Nugget said it flooded the area with floor persons, managers, supervisors, surveillance and security officers, believing they were watching "a sophisticated swindling and cheating scheme" in progress.

(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: atlantic; cards; casino; goldennugget; nugget; shoe; shuffle
Well, well, well. This has got to be about the most ridiculous lawsuit that I have ever heard about. Yes, I realize there are quite a few contenders in that contests, but this one is even dumber than the other dumb ones... I think.
1 posted on 08/21/2012 5:06:05 AM PDT by grundle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: grundle

If I’m not mistaken, there have been several cases in which casinos have refused to pay large jackpots to winners of computerized progressive-slot games, claiming that software bugs were responsible for the large payouts.


2 posted on 08/21/2012 5:12:58 AM PDT by Steely Tom (If the Constitution can be a living document, I guess a corporation can be a person.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: grundle
An attorney can weigh in, but this sounds like an invitation for counter suits for treble damages plus legal fees and court costs, plus charges of false imprisonment by the one gambler.
3 posted on 08/21/2012 5:14:08 AM PDT by Truth29
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: grundle

Depends on what their contract says.


4 posted on 08/21/2012 5:16:08 AM PDT by riverrunner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: grundle

What they were witnessing was totally inept group from the casino manager to the dealer. After the second hand, the dealer should have noticed and called in the floor manager to close the table and inspect the cards. To further add insult to injury, why would they take anyone’s word the decks were pre-shuffled? Never assume anything, especially when it comes to money being involved.


5 posted on 08/21/2012 5:16:30 AM PDT by mazda77 ("Defeating the Totalitarian Lie" By: Hilmar von Campe. Everybody should read it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: grundle

Depends entirely on the contract to buy the cards and the specification. But I doubt the playing card manufacturer is liable for anything more than the cost of the cards. . . and that is only for not delivering product to spec. . .


6 posted on 08/21/2012 5:17:25 AM PDT by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: grundle

the casino side is laughable. And that their dealers couldn’t figure out what was wrong is ridiculous. The casino deserves to lose this one


7 posted on 08/21/2012 5:24:20 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: grundle

House rules? House Rules.


8 posted on 08/21/2012 5:25:52 AM PDT by Coffee... Black... No Sugar (I'm gonna' BICKER!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

I appreciated the comment at the site asking for damages for getting bad cards.


9 posted on 08/21/2012 5:38:49 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (Better the devil we can destroy than the Judas we must tolerate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: grundle

Casino doesn’t shuffle their own cards? Almost as stupid as gambling at online Casinos.

Here, let me wire you 50 bucks, then I’ll call you and you tell me if I win or not.


10 posted on 08/21/2012 5:42:34 AM PDT by Usagi_yo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: grundle

Ya, cuz the casino would listen a customer complaint about “quick dealing” wherein the house takes advantage of a customer’s delayed move to take down winnings, from the betting area.


11 posted on 08/21/2012 5:42:44 AM PDT by G Larry (Progressives are Regressive because their objectives devolve to the lowest common denominator.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: grundle

There was a time when casinos honored winners and paraded them around as free advertising, and it worked. Now if you win at all, they shut the table down and browbeat you. A blackjack shoe has over 6 decks now making card counting obsolete. Once, at the Resorts, I won about 5 blackjack hands in a row, for a total of about $150 and there were 6 people staring at me like I was a child killer.. Sheesh!


12 posted on 08/21/2012 6:01:39 AM PDT by ArtDodger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: grundle

Is the casino giving back the money it won on the “unshuffled” decks as well? I doubt it.


13 posted on 08/21/2012 6:03:14 AM PDT by Brookhaven (Freedom--tastes like chicken)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: grundle

It is possible that the cards WERE shuffled.

If you take two identical decks of cards, and shuffle each of them with the exact same pressure and speed, the end result will be the same. It could be that the shuffling machines are too perfect.


14 posted on 08/21/2012 6:14:47 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana ("I love to hear you talk talk talk, but I hate what I hear you say."-Del Shannon)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Brookhaven
", citing state gambling regulations requiring all casino games to offer fair odds — to both sides."

What a load! Anyone ever sit a blackjack table and get on a good shoe or two. Doesn't take too long before the pit boss starts switching dealers and everytime discarding a card out of the shoe. Sniveling, whining Losers!

15 posted on 08/21/2012 6:15:07 AM PDT by VRWCarea51
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: yldstrk

Color me skeptical on the gamblers winning this one.


16 posted on 08/21/2012 6:21:15 AM PDT by Loud Mime (The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Truth29
This lawyer?

17 posted on 08/21/2012 6:23:59 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Loud Mime
Color me skeptical on the gamblers winning this one.

Does the Golden Nugget donate money to Democrats or Republicans?

If they donate to Democrats, they will win.
If they donate to Republicans, they will lose.

18 posted on 08/21/2012 6:27:57 AM PDT by Bon mots ("When seconds count, the police are just minutes away...")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: grundle
In a lawsuit against a Kansas City playing card manufacturer, the Golden Nugget contends the cards were unshuffled, despite being promised to be pre-shuffled and ready to use.

Is that their argument? "Your Honor, we assumed that the cards were already shuffled so we didn't bother shuffling them ourselves before dealing out hands...."

19 posted on 08/21/2012 6:40:02 AM PDT by Inconvenient Truthteller
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: VRWCarea51
"citing state gambling regulations requiring all casino games to offer fair odds — to both sides"

What in the world does "fair odds" mean? I know of no casino game where the house doesn't have some percentage of advantage on the odds (that's how they stay in business) - so if "fair odds" doesn't mean a 50/50 chance on every hand then what does it mean?

20 posted on 08/21/2012 6:42:47 AM PDT by circlecity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Inconvenient Truthteller

So the casino gambled that the cards would be
pre-shuffled.......and lost?

Irony is cool.


21 posted on 08/21/2012 6:51:55 AM PDT by markoman (The man with the rubber glove was....surprisingly gentle.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: grundle
.......the players kept winning over and over.....so the casino flooded the area with floor persons, managers, supervisors, surveillance and security officers, believing they were watching "a sophisticated swindling and cheating scheme" in progress..............

There are such swindlers in casinos.....CNBC's "American Greed" series ran the story about a Vietnamese group that swindled casinos out of millions.

They were very sophisticated, using electronics, and hordes of accomplices in the scheme, traveling from one casino to another ........was going great except for one huge boo-boo.

They hired people to participate---but one of them was an undercover agent who caught the ringleader on tape.

22 posted on 08/21/2012 6:52:47 AM PDT by Liz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: grundle

This is a little like Kamikaze pilots suiting Mitsubishi.


23 posted on 08/21/2012 6:59:13 AM PDT by righttackle44 (I may not be much, but I raised a United States Marine.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

In one notorious casino swindling case-——the dealer was the swindler.

At first, casino security could not figure out how he was stealing.

They studied videotapes over and over-—then noticed the dealer was wearing a large watch——he would slip $100 chips under the face of the watch and walk out with them.

Accomplices would cash them in.


24 posted on 08/21/2012 6:59:40 AM PDT by Liz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Sivana

Yep, the cards were shuffled back into order,,,
thats how good they are.


25 posted on 08/21/2012 7:01:45 AM PDT by ▀udda▀udd (>> F U B O << "What the hell kind of country is this if I can only hate a man if he's white?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: grundle

Um, doesn’t this casino have those card shuffling machines, or doesn’t the dealer shuffle the cards? Did they open a new pack of cards with each hand or something? Sounds to me like the procedures of the casino are to blame here.


26 posted on 08/21/2012 7:02:59 AM PDT by MEGoody (You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MEGoody

If you read the article (I know, a FR tradition encourages commenting without reading), you’ll see the casino buys the cards from the manufacturer pre-shuffled. The card manufacturer delivered unshuffled decks of cards.


27 posted on 08/21/2012 7:43:46 AM PDT by SoothingDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Steely Tom
Most of those were in the early days of Indian casino gaming, and one casino manager eventually committed suicide when the scam to cheat the winners was discovered.

-PJ

28 posted on 08/21/2012 7:54:35 AM PDT by Political Junkie Too ( It doesn't come naturally when you're not natural born.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: grundle

Anybody can win blackjack by using memorized Monte Carlo non-successive damped sequence algorithms. I did this in Reno for 3 months- Then they blackballed me at all the casinos. So I taught my friends how to do it and they all cleaned up.


29 posted on 08/21/2012 8:02:04 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 (Yup- where?? who knew?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Usagi_yo
Casino doesn’t shuffle their own cards? Almost as stupid as gambling at online Casinos.

Indeed. Being a professional nerd, I'm amazed at the fact that anyone could trust an online casino. Even if the casino is entirely legitimate, and tries its best to run an honest house, the chances of them having decent random number generators with a true source of randomness (like, say radioactive decay), is vanishingly small.

30 posted on 08/21/2012 10:20:45 AM PDT by zeugma (Those of us who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: SoothingDave
If you read the article (I know, a FR tradition encourages commenting without reading), you’ll see the casino buys the cards from the manufacturer pre-shuffled. The card manufacturer delivered unshuffled decks of cards.

However, the article also stated that the dealer dealt the same sequence of cards over and over again. Not sure how that would have happened unless they didn't shuffle between games or, instead, used a new deck each time (all of which were unshuffled).

I'm not an expert on how casinos operate, so maybe it is common practice to open a new deck of cards for each game.

31 posted on 08/21/2012 10:35:31 AM PDT by MEGoody (You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: SoothingDave

Pre-shuffled cards? Is that really that much of a time-saver? Plus I’ve never seen a game that doesn’t have a time out for shuffling by hand. The only exception was the Bellagio that had these toilet seat looking gizmos attached to the 6 deck shoe where the old cards are deposited, shuffled and put back. No game stoppage.


32 posted on 08/21/2012 10:49:19 AM PDT by boop (It's not personal...it's strictly business)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: grundle

If the contract says cards are supposed to be delivered pre-shuffled and the weren’t that’s a valid suit. Of course the dealer should have caught this before the gamers did and shut down the table. The players definitely didn’t do anything wrong.


33 posted on 08/21/2012 10:54:57 AM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MEGoody

Usually casinos only go part way through a deck, helps keep counters at bay since the second half of the deck is predictable by the first half. Depending on the game and the shoe (some shoes get loaded with one deck some with lots) it could 1 deck 1 game. Probably not with baccarat since there’s no strategy, probably closer to 1 deck 5 or 6 games, but then if the next deck runs the exact same pattern (again it’s a no strategy game, all games deal the exact same number of cards in the same order, easy to spot a pattern develop). And in casinos you never reshuffle, used cards are trash, they usually actually nick them in some way so they’re easily identifiable as used.


34 posted on 08/21/2012 11:05:03 AM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: yldstrk
"Forty-one consecutive winning hands later..."

Fourty-one consecutive hands the dealer didn't get a clue? I don't feel real bad for the house.

The Kenyan must go.

35 posted on 08/21/2012 2:59:43 PM PDT by ex91B10 (We've tried the Soap Box,the Ballot Box and the Jury Box; ONE BOX LEFT!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson