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Which Babies Should Get the Death Sentence?
Townhall.com ^ | August 22, 2012 | Terry Jeffrey

Posted on 08/22/2012 3:36:54 AM PDT by Kaslin

Americans witnessed a remarkable drama this week when some of our most exalted politicians frantically scrambled to reassure voters that they, too, believed that the United States ought to permit the deliberate killing of at least some innocent human beings.

They apparently did so to persuade the public they are caring, compassionate and -- above all -- reasonable people.

The drama started when Rep. Todd Akin, the Republican nominee in the U.S. Senate race in Missouri, expressed his view that no innocent human being ought to be deliberately killed.

However, that was not the only thing Akin expressed.

"What about in the case of rape. Should it (abortion) be legal or not?" Charles Jaco of KTVI in St. Louis asked Akin in an interview broadcast over the weekend.

"Well, you know, people always want to try to make that as one of those things, well, how do you slice this particularly tough ethical question," said Akin. "It seems to me, first of all, from what I understand from doctors, that's really rare. If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let's assume that maybe that didn't work or something. You know, I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child."

Akin's answer had two distinct parts. In the first, he made a claim about the physiological likelihood of a rape victim conceiving a child as the result of the criminal act committed against her. In the second, he made a policy statement about whether aborting such a child ought to be permitted.

The first part of Akin's answer was worse than gratuitous. It made a claim he could not back up and did so in language that itself raised questions.

But what about the second part of Akin's statement -- that rapists ought to be punished but not children conceived through rape?

Is this a logical, morally defensible, even laudable and courageous position?

A good place to find the basic premises for conducting that analysis is on the website of Mitt Romney's presidential campaign. It includes a statement explaining Romney's position on abortion.

"Mitt Romney is pro-life," says the first sentence of this statement. "Mitt believes that life begins at conception and wishes that the laws of our nation reflected that view," it further says. "Because the good heart of America knows no boundaries, a commitment to protecting life should not stop at the water's edge. Taking innocent life is always wrong and always tragic, wherever it happens," it also says.

"Americans have a moral duty to uphold the sanctity of life and protect the weakest, most vulnerable and most innocent among us," it concludes. "As president, Mitt will ensure that American laws reflect America's values of preserving life at home and abroad."

Now, I have not quoted here every word from Romney's campaign statement on abortion. But the term "rape" does not appear in it anywhere.

So, here is the syllogism a logical person might begin to construct from what Romney's campaign say about Romney's position on abortion: 1) "Life begins at conception," 2) "taking innocent life is always wrong and always tragic, wherever it happens," 3) "Americans have a moral duty to uphold the sanctity of life and protect the weakest, most vulnerable and most innocent among us," and 4) "Mitt will ensure that American laws reflect America's values of preserving life at home and abroad."

Therefore?

Given Romney's premises, what would be the logical position for Romney to take on whether American law should permit the taking of an innocent human life conceived through a rape?

"Gov. Romney and Congressman Ryan disagree with Mr. Akin's statement, and a Romney-Ryan administration would not oppose abortion in instances of rape," Romney campaign spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg told multiple news organizations on Monday.

This has been Romney's position ever since he declared himself pro-life. "I am pro-life," Romney wrote in a July 26, 2005, op-ed in the Boston Globe. "I believe that abortion is the wrong choice except in cases of incest, rape and to save the life of the mother."

So, if abortion is not the "wrong choice" in cases of rape, what kind of choice is it?

Who exactly benefits when the government permits the deliberate killing of an innocent child conceived through rape?

"And in the quiet of conscience, people of both political parties know that more than a million abortions a year cannot be squared with the good heart of America," says the abortion statement on Romney's website.

Do those same consciences think permitting the deliberate killing of some innocent children can be squared with the good heart of America -- as long as it is only certain categories of children, such as those conceived through rape?

Rep. Todd Akin's substantive position that we should protect the right to life even of those conceived through rape -- who are themselves a second victim of that evil act -- is not only in keeping with the good heart of America, it is plain and simply right.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: Missouri
KEYWORDS: babies; cultureoflife; rape; toddakin

1 posted on 08/22/2012 3:37:04 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: mlizzy

Figured you might appreciate this introspective article — something beyond the hysteria.


2 posted on 08/22/2012 3:42:24 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: Gene Eric

The article is not introspective at all. It is Terry J. being on a moral high horse with no legs. He asks in his snarky headline: “Which Babies Should Get the Death Sentence?”

A: All of them, after idiots like you help McCaskill and Obama win Missouri!!!
DOLTS!


3 posted on 08/22/2012 3:46:32 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: Kaslin

Interesting spin. Townhalls Jefferies is flipping the answer Akin never gave but should have while the question and the belief that Akin’ holds on conception still stands.
Naww the party should go after the guy bringing up the McCaskall connection to his primary and that half baked idea on when conception occurs. If it doesn’t it’s not a cohearent political unit.


4 posted on 08/22/2012 3:55:08 AM PDT by mosesdapoet (The best way to punish a - country is let professors run it. Fredrick the Great p/p)
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To: mosesdapoet

The problem I have with politicians who call themselves pro-life is this...if you believe a woman can make the choice to abort a baby that is conceived from a rape, then you are PRO-CHOICE. Period. You are NOT PRO-LIFE and don’t say you are....the end. I do believe that most people today are pro-choice for others even though they, themselves could or would NOT have an abortion. Romney and Ryan are PRO-CHOICE and should say that...tell the truth.


5 posted on 08/22/2012 4:08:11 AM PDT by Cricket24 (Telling the truth is not attacking someone!)
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To: Cricket24

All I know is that I’ve gone from not caring one way or the other as a teen to being a solid pro lifer as an adult. Even as recently as a few years ago I could find exceptions but I’ve realized that they were cop outs.

Life is just too precious.


6 posted on 08/22/2012 4:15:58 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Kaslin
One Tiny Life, 12 Week Old Resin

We need to get this back on message! The fact is that CLAIRE MCCASKILL is the extremist NOT TODD AKIN. She AND HER PARTY believe it is 100% ACCEPTABLE to kill babies as in the picture above. Barack Obama's statements on the Illinois' Born Alive Infant Protection Act should tell you everything you need to know about who is an "extremist" and who is not! Claire McCaskill has her lips surgically attached to Obama's rear-end!

Todd Akin has his beliefs regarding rape that he developed through his contacts/education in his life. On the other hand Claire McCaskill's extremist beliefs and party position are costing human lives every day!

7 posted on 08/22/2012 4:20:42 AM PDT by missnry (The truth will set you free ... and drive liberals Crazy!)
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To: Kaslin

Even if one agrees with every word in the article, Akin still committed political suicide. More babies will die because of his words than if he had kept his mouth shut. He gave aid and comfort to baby killers.

By the time one has decided to run as a serious candidate for U.S. Senate one should already have a politically palatible and morally correct response to questions about abortion and rape that are intellectually consistent with one’s other positions. It is one of liberals huge gotcha questions. Instead, he offered inane incoherence. No good.


8 posted on 08/22/2012 4:20:51 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: Kaslin
Of course Akin is correct that rapists should be punished. Personally i prefer the death penalty, after a conviction!

And, there should be no excuse allowed for killing babies. That too should be punished with the death penalty.

9 posted on 08/22/2012 4:25:44 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: C. Edmund Wright

We have a plentitude of perfectly acceptable pro-life candidates available who can win in MIssouri. This guy took Democrat money and help. There’s the blood of dead babies in that. He let temptation take over and rule his life in this matter.


10 posted on 08/22/2012 4:25:56 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Kaslin

I’m very pro-life.

BUT, if a woman opts to murder her innocent unborn baby (in the 1st trimester), let it be on her hands. SHE will be the one to face her Creator and explain.

Just don’t use tax dollars to do it and it should be considered murder when the baby is viable outside of the womb.


11 posted on 08/22/2012 5:00:19 AM PDT by Reagan69 (I supported Sarah Palin and all I got was a lousy DVD !)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
More babies will die because of his words than if he had kept his mouth shut. He gave aid and comfort to baby killers.



More babies are going to die because of what he said you think the baby killers were going to see the light until he spoke --yeah right
12 posted on 08/22/2012 5:02:12 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: muawiyah
Personally i prefer the death penalty, after a conviction!

No. Many men are convicted when women lie about rape. Now, many more are being found innocent after DNA testing.

13 posted on 08/22/2012 5:46:40 AM PDT by eccentric (a.k.a. baldwidow)
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To: eccentric

Change the rules of evidence and always use DNA testing. Then, just to make sure you could use WATERBOARDING. It’s incredibly reliable and doesn’t harm anyone.


14 posted on 08/22/2012 6:00:01 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Kaslin

He thinks rapists should be punished. What a brave stick your neck out stand that is.

In fact the reason we make a distinction in the law between rape and any other assault is that rape comes with the possibility of pregnancy. And being force to carry and raise a strange thugs baby is 10,000X worse then being punched in the nose.


15 posted on 08/22/2012 6:05:14 AM PDT by DManA
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To: muawiyah

Waterboard the man or the woman? A google search using “lied about rape” got me 6,620,000 results


16 posted on 08/22/2012 6:07:31 AM PDT by eccentric (a.k.a. baldwidow)
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To: uncbob
you think the baby killers were going to see the light until he spoke --yeah right

No, but they will get to appoint more judges and elect more legislators. What he did was worse than a crime, it was a blunder.

17 posted on 08/22/2012 6:13:31 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: eccentric
Right up there with "the" ~ fur shur.

Waterboarding is supposed to be very reliable. It makes use of your antidrowning reflex ~ the one that keeps you gulping rather than breathing in amniotic fluid in utero.

God and nature obviously conspired to bring you to life ~ and this is one of the basic built in tools that makes being a mammal possible!

Most Leftwingtards and pro-abortionists know nothing of this reflex ~ they never used it having been spawned by Satan himself, but nontheless, it's there and it works, so, yup, everybody party to the case gets waterboarded ~ including the other guests, if any. Should be particularly informative on those group rapes.

18 posted on 08/22/2012 6:15:38 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Kaslin

This close to the election they should be giving nothing but non plus answers on this issue and a few others.

Economy, Economy, Economy....


19 posted on 08/22/2012 6:25:42 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Just read that part and thought the same thing.


20 posted on 08/22/2012 6:26:58 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: muawiyah

How does DNA prove whether or not sex was consentual? Given that a woman is pregnant there is a strong presumption that hetrosexual sex occurred. DNA is useful for identifying the father, but more or less worthless for determining consent. My guess, something like 9 out of 10 false rape accusations identify the actual father.


21 posted on 08/22/2012 6:42:05 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Abortion protects the rapist, especially for statuatory rape, by “disposing” of the DNA evidence


22 posted on 08/22/2012 7:03:41 AM PDT by eccentric (a.k.a. baldwidow)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

That’s where waterboarding comes in to play!


23 posted on 08/22/2012 7:18:24 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: eccentric

There are many whose heart aches at the destruction of any innocent baby, in any situation. Those voters may understand, and forgive Akin’s “misspoken comments.”


24 posted on 08/22/2012 7:45:15 AM PDT by alamogal
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To: Gene Eric
Figured you might appreciate this introspective article — something beyond the hysteria.
Oh thank you for the ping. Great wise-guy article. That little Romney is such a trickster! The rape victim mother who passes on abortion is saved enormous additional grief, of course, as she then receives, not a dead baby and a bill, but a beautiful child instead. Thanks again!
25 posted on 08/22/2012 7:51:48 AM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: Cricket24
Romney and Ryan are PRO-CHOICE and should say that...tell the truth.
You're definitely right! But will they? Just heard on FOX News (Akin was on) that Ryan called him "again," asking him straight out to step down, so Mitt's got his hold on Ryan pretty tight now. It's a shame. Ryan was a 100% pro-life Catholic. I wonder when his "On the Issues" page is going to change. That's a black mark that could cost him his soul. Of course, there's always repentance.
26 posted on 08/22/2012 8:35:27 AM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: Kaslin

“Which babies should get the death sentence?”

The ones who present an imminent threat to the financial and social well-being of Progressive macho-men.

IMHO


27 posted on 08/22/2012 9:19:01 AM PDT by ripley
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To: mlizzy
Catholics credit repentence with entirely too much. A more dour and Protestant view is that there are some lines you cross that you don't come back from ~ and the Calvinists say crossing those lines proves you were doomed from the start!

It's always best to NOT TEST the Almighty!

28 posted on 08/22/2012 9:44:18 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: missnry

McCaskill is basically a thrill killer who gets pleasure from the death of the innocent.


29 posted on 08/22/2012 9:50:52 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Kaslin

Congressman Akin attended many March for Life rallies against Roe v Wade. What is so odd and “politically incorrect” when Nellie Gray, Founder of The March for Life, always stood by First Principles
“that every life, born and preborn, aged and young, must be cherished and protected. No exception! No compromise!”

Nellie Gray, Pro-Life Hero - 1924-2012
http://www.marchforlife.org/

Nellie Gray, President of the March for Life Education and Defense Fund, passed away over the weekend at the age of 88. Nellie was a native of Big Spring, Texas. She served in World War II in the Women’s Army Corps. Nellie’s education included an undergraduate business degree, a master degree in economics, and ultimately a law degree from Georgetown Law Center. Nellie worked for more than twenty years for the U.S. Government in the Departments of State and Labor. After retiring from her federal career, Nellie played a key role in founding the March for Life in 1974, the peaceful prolife demonstration against abortion held every year on the anniversary of Roe v. Wade. She soon emerged as the leader of the annual event, and as an outspoken, eloquent advocate for the most vulnerable members of our society, the preborn.

In addition to her heroic work for the March for Life, Nellie will be most remembered for her passionate stance that every life, born and preborn, aged and young, must be cherished and protected. No exception! No compromise!

Until the very last moment of her life, Nellie pressed for unity in the prolife movement. She firmly believed that not a single preborn life should be sacrificed for any reason, and urged all prolife organizations to adopt the March for Life’s signature statement, the Life Principles, as the guiding light for all participants in the noble cause to which she devoted her life.

Nellie has been a giant in the pro-life movement. As we approach the 40th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the Board of Directors will continue to honor Nellie’s memory by doing everything possible to protect every preborn human person, and to bring to an end the scourge of abortion in the United States.

“A nation that kills its own children is nation without hope. Pope John Paul II


30 posted on 08/22/2012 9:53:22 AM PDT by victim soul
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To: Kaslin
Question...

Anyone know the actual numbers on pregnancy resulting from forcible rape?

I've seen estimates from 0.5% (1 in 200) to 5.0% (1 in 20).

Pregnancy for consensual, unprotected sex is around 1 chance in 20, or, 5.0%.

I'll guess that most rape victims are of child bearing age and have a reasonably high rate of birth control use.

Any links to serious data would be appreciated.

I also wonder if - legally - a criminal prosecutor, or a defense attorney, are allowed to inform the jury that a victim has become pregnant?

I cannot recall ever hearing this issue discussed.

In fact, I cannot recall ever hearing the subject of pregnancy discussed in a rape trial.

It seems like it could cut both ways with a jury.

Staunch pro-lifers might feel prejudice against the rape victim if she aborted the child before trial.

Or, staunch pro-choice jurors might feel prejudice against the defendant for adding a cruel insult to his already cruel injury.

31 posted on 08/22/2012 10:01:05 AM PDT by zeestephen
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To: victim soul
A nation that kills its own children is nation without hope. Pope John Paul II
In addition to her heroic work for the March for Life, Nellie will be most remembered for her passionate stance that every life, born and preborn, aged and young, must be cherished and protected. No exception! No compromise!
Romney states a "pro-life" stance but allows for the child victim of rape to be killed and the mother victim to be further damaged.. That's not pro-life!

R.I.P. Nellie; enjoy the children!
32 posted on 08/22/2012 10:08:07 AM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: zeestephen

You might want to check with “Life After Assault League” http://www.all.org/ It was begun by a woman/daughter rape victims.


33 posted on 08/22/2012 10:26:55 AM PDT by eccentric (a.k.a. baldwidow)
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To: Kaslin
SO...Akin is being attacked because he said "legitimate rape", and the left takes offense to the implication that women would lie about consensual vs. non-consensual sex.

Meanwhile, everything he said is TRUE, and the only way to dodge what he said is to NITPICK one word.

34 posted on 08/22/2012 11:48:04 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (RED NECK KUNG FU by Corn Fuschas)
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To: missnry
Claire McCaskill has her lips surgically attached to Obama's rear-end!

I've seen that movie too.


35 posted on 08/22/2012 11:52:26 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (RED NECK KUNG FU by Corn Fuschas)
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To: alamogal
and forgive Akin’s “misspoken comments.”

Forgive me, because I fail to see where he 'misspoke' anything.

He was just precluding cases where it wasn't rape until 'later', because the female's womb would have been more 'receptive' during the sex.

If someone here has a better explanation for what 'legitimate rape' meant, then fire away.

36 posted on 08/22/2012 11:59:55 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (RED NECK KUNG FU by Corn Fuschas)
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To: Cricket24
>> if you believe a woman can make the choice to abort a baby that is conceived from a rape, then you are PRO-CHOICE. Period. <<

So if someone is staunchly pro-life and would forbid abortion for 99.99% of pregnancies, but would allow abortion in the other 00.01%, they should describe themselves as "Pro-Choice. Period". Right.

Okay, following this logic, do YOU believe a woman should have the CHOICE to abort her child if the pregnancy will kill her?

If so, you better start describing yourself as "Pro-Choice. Period."

37 posted on 08/22/2012 3:34:24 PM PDT by BillyBoy (Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

I should have stated “analytical” instead “introspective”.

Keep in mind this is the first article I found that was not hyperventilating for the crucifixion of Akin.

My beef with the Akin fiasco is the absolute refusal to accept his message on the value of Life. His remarks were too ambiguous to draw a definite conclusion, and most everyone decided it was best to simply crucify the guy anyway.


38 posted on 08/22/2012 6:44:02 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: Gene Eric
My beef with the Akin fiasco is the absolute refusal to accept his message on the value of Life

I could not agree more. I am tired of people defending retardation simply because the retard happens to hold the right opinion on life. There are a lot of folks who are not retarded and who did not win a GOP primary on the basis of Democrat votes who plan on voting against that very person in November - who also hold that view. This is phony moralizing and it sickens me.

39 posted on 08/22/2012 8:13:41 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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To: BillyBoy

People like Cricket24 are too dense to understand the fallacy of their own logic.


40 posted on 08/22/2012 8:15:09 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright
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