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More than 2,200 hospitals face penalties under ObamaCare rules
Fox News ^ | 8/23/2012 | Staff

Posted on 08/24/2012 5:37:13 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote

A provision of ObamaCare is set to punish roughly two-thirds of U.S. hospitals starting this fall over high readmission rates, according to an analysis by Kaiser Health News.

Starting in October, Medicare will reduce reimbursements to hospitals with high 30-day readmission rates -- which refers to patients who return within a month -- by as much as 1 percent. The maximum penalty increases to 2 percent the following year and 3 percent in 2014.

Doctors are concerned the penalty is unfair, since sometimes they have to accept patients more than once in a brief period of time but could be penalized for doing so -- even for accepting seniors who are sick.

"Among patients with heart failure, hospitals that have higher readmission rates actually have lower mortality rates," said Sunil Kripalani, MD, a professor with Vanderbilt University Medical Center who studies hospital readmissions. "So, which would we rather have -- a hospital readmission or a death?"

(Excerpt) Read more at health.foxnews.mobi ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; deathpanels; hospitalpenalties; medicare; obamacare; obamacarehospitals; zerocare
FUBO!!!!!!
1 posted on 08/24/2012 5:37:19 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote
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To: GlockThe Vote
"So, which would we rather have -- a hospital readmission or a death?"

I think everyone has figured out Obama's answer to that question by now.

2 posted on 08/24/2012 5:41:38 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: GlockThe Vote

It’s BO’s cost-cutting plan. The hospitals won’t readmit you if you’ve exceeded your quota of admissions, so you will die at home. This statistic won’t besmirch the hospital’s mortality total...also being monitored by ObamaCare...and ObamaCare can save the money that would have been spent on you had you been readmitted.

It will be interesting to see how ObamaCare will affect life spans in the USA, but you can bet government officials will still live to be 90+.


3 posted on 08/24/2012 5:42:56 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: GlockThe Vote
Time to trot out the great Reagan line in 1980 about Carter, this time about Obama:

"A recession is when your neighbor loses his job. A depression is when you lose yours, and recovery is when Obama loses his."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF3ChLR4SsI

4 posted on 08/24/2012 5:43:07 AM PDT by PapaNew
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To: txrefugee

Your right. obamacare’s cost savings comes from not treating patients.

These people are heartless and soulless feral humans.

But like you said, the rulers will get the best of care.


5 posted on 08/24/2012 5:52:10 AM PDT by Texas resident (November 6 - Vote Against obama)
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To: circlecity

And the pieces of S#$% in the media and RAt party attacked Palin for telling the truth?

F them - all of them.

Sarah was THE ONLY ONE who spoke the truth in 2008 about obama palling around w terrorists and was the only one telling the truth about the death panels.

FUBO you rotten thug!


6 posted on 08/24/2012 5:53:19 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: circlecity

This hyperventilation from the right over an actual cost inefficiency issue in Medicare doesn’t speak well for us.


7 posted on 08/24/2012 5:54:16 AM PDT by the808bass
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To: the808bass
"This hyperventilation from the right over an actual cost inefficiency issue in Medicare doesn’t speak well for us."

Killing heart patients to promote "cost efficiency" doesn't sound like a good trade off to me. But that's just me.

8 posted on 08/24/2012 5:58:10 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: GlockThe Vote

Why do I suspect that any institution or MD providing care will be penalized!!!

The banksters, after all , expect that money in Medicare to wind up in their pockets!!!


9 posted on 08/24/2012 6:00:10 AM PDT by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: GlockThe Vote

And it is so damned obvious how hospitals are going to react to this.

They will each hire a Michelle Obama for the purpose of encouraging patients to go to some other hospital if it has been less than 30 days since their last stay. They will probably even work out deals with other hospitals to “trade” patients to keep them all over the 30 day limit.

Gubbermint types never ever ever ever learn that there’s more than one way to skin a cat.


10 posted on 08/24/2012 6:02:38 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: the808bass

Don’t you worry. Hyperventilating will be disallowed under cost/benefit reviews by a 15 member panel.

Of course when it’s you or your family members who happen to be one of those inconvenient “cost inefficiencies” please come back and tell us it was worth it...


11 posted on 08/24/2012 6:04:03 AM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: the808bass

And there are not better ways to do that then penalizing hospitals and sending the money to the govt and the thugs and criminals like obama and holder and sebllius?


12 posted on 08/24/2012 6:04:29 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote

Present these facts to any sheeperal democRat, and all you’ll get is

“I won’t believe it - 0bamacare means that all healthcare will be free and available on demand. That’s all I’ll believe.”


13 posted on 08/24/2012 6:06:58 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working fors)
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To: circlecity

So it’s a good idea to readmit a patient 6 times in 6 weeks for end-stage COPD? Sure. If you’re a hospital bilking the system and no doctor wants to be bothered to actually tell the patient that they’re dying.

Telling a patient that they’re dying and treating them appropriately isn’t killing them.


14 posted on 08/24/2012 6:12:51 AM PDT by the808bass
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To: circlecity

So it’s a good idea to readmit a patient 6 times in 6 weeks for end-stage COPD? Sure. If you’re a hospital bilking the system and no doctor wants to be bothered to actually tell the patient that they’re dying.

Telling a patient that they’re dying and treating them appropriately isn’t killing them.


15 posted on 08/24/2012 6:12:51 AM PDT by the808bass
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To: GlockThe Vote

Yes, there are better ways. But pretending that this isn’t an actual issue is simple denial.


16 posted on 08/24/2012 6:15:15 AM PDT by the808bass
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To: the808bass
"So it’s a good idea to readmit a patient 6 times in 6 weeks for end-stage COPD?"

Nah, just let them die. What do their doctors know? Who needs those obnoxious heart patients around anyway, right?

17 posted on 08/24/2012 6:21:55 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity

COPD is a respiratory condition.

I’ll give the rest of your response its due.
...


18 posted on 08/24/2012 6:28:22 AM PDT by the808bass
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To: GlockThe Vote
Like your message.

Hospitals can mitigate the readmission problem by keeping the patients in the hospital longer, BUT that puts them and the doctors at risk for being economically inefficient....longer stays are result in demerits which reduce Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement fees.

Why do I feel that Washington is being run by lily white administrators and college professors who brought the cities of Detroit and East Saint Louis to their present condition?

19 posted on 08/24/2012 6:29:26 AM PDT by BilLies (FOX NEWS, Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hates your Traditional American guts!)
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To: GlockThe Vote; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; NFHale; Impy; ...
RE :”Doctors are concerned the penalty is unfair, since sometimes they have to accept patients more than once in a brief period of time but could be penalized for doing so — even for accepting seniors who are sick.

This could be an unintentional side effect. What happens if the hospital refuses to admit a patient to avoid this? Do they get sued? Or they just limit how many medicare patients they have in the first place.

20 posted on 08/24/2012 6:31:05 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: BilLies

Please ignore previous message.

Liked your message.
Hospitals can mitigate the readmission problem by keeping the patients in the hospital longer, BUT that puts them and the doctors at risk for being economically inefficient....longer stays result in demerits which reduce Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement fees.

Why do I feel that Washington is being run by lily white administrators and college professors who brought the cities of Detroit and East Saint Louis to their CURRENT condition?


21 posted on 08/24/2012 6:35:11 AM PDT by BilLies (FOX NEWS, Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hates your Traditional American guts!)
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To: the808bass
"I’ll give the rest of your response its due."

I hear that a lot from people who can't articulate a coherent response.

22 posted on 08/24/2012 6:38:39 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity

They could do what obama said and just give the person a pill and ship em off.


23 posted on 08/24/2012 6:39:28 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: circlecity

It’s apparent that you know too little about the subject to have an intelligent conversation from your few posts here. I leave you to your opinion.


24 posted on 08/24/2012 6:46:49 AM PDT by the808bass
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To: the808bass
"I leave you to your opinion"

Why thank you. And I'll leave you to the circus music in your head.

25 posted on 08/24/2012 6:49:45 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: SE Mom; Buckeye McFrog
Can just ONE GOP please “do the math”????
How many people are there in this country? 300+Million
How many people on that “death” panel? 15 ????
Ok, kids what's the answer?

Now you both are totally correct. Having just been IN the hospital myself the buzz is horrendous from the staff and physicians against Ozippy death panels and rules/regulations which deny physicians being in charge of your care. VOTE folks, VOTE GOP. Don't waste your energy on showing the GOP for forcing Romney on us. By his Paul Ryan pick alone, he shows more guts that McCain did in his little finger.

YES Sarah WAS the only one with guts in 2008, saying pal around with terrorists. Sarah was right on and she should come out and say “I told you so” but she has her own ways of reacting. McCain shut her down. Disgusting individual he was.

26 posted on 08/24/2012 6:50:04 AM PDT by WaterWeWaitinFor (Let's get out the vote folks. Volunteer - let's all do our part for November victory.)
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To: the808bass

Hospitals are under much pressure by the entities that are paying for the healthcare to get them out of the door that often patients are sent home before they are ready.

It has happened twice to my wife after two totally separate surgeries. There is a fine balance between getting the patient out the door and having them well enough so they will not be readmitted. Hospitals are in a difficult position.

Of course it would help more if they didn’t use contaminated mesh to patch a hernia and have to go back in to take it out and treat the raging infection that the contaminated mesh caused.


27 posted on 08/24/2012 6:50:41 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: GlockThe Vote

Just experienced the preliminary ramifications of this regulation. When mom’s stage 4 bone cancer resulted in two crushed vertebrae while 5 hours away from home, she was admitted to an out of town hospital. Even though “pallative care” and pain management is her only recourse, the hospital would not discharge her because “they didn’t want to see her back in the emergency room.” It was stressed by every doctor and nurse on her case that Medicare would NOT pay for her stay if we left against medical advice (AMA). Before it was over, the hospital admin finally fessed up that hospital practitioners are TRAINED to say this even though it is not true. We were forced to leave AMA much the same way she was forced to participate in govt. Mediscare even though she had private insurance/financial means.

She is home now, after a week of being held PRISONER and subjected to unnecessary expensive tests (charged to John Q. TAXPAYER) with no access to HER doctors (familiar with her case) or home while family members incurred HUGE travel/lodging expenses.

My advice…don’t get sick or hurt while out of town especially under these new BS regulations. Hospitals will refuse or be hesitant to discharge terminally ill patients (who WILL be readmitted FOR THE SAME ILLNESS) because these huge fines affect their bottom line.

Hospitals are TRAINING THEIR STAFF TO LIE as they gear up for ObamaCare. Be Warned!


28 posted on 08/24/2012 7:04:07 AM PDT by johnsmom (I must be dreaming 'cause this can't be real)
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To: GlockThe Vote
But faced with penalties, the nation's medical centers now have a financial incentive to seek improvements to the way they follow up with patients after they're released.

There's already a mechanism in place for that in Home Heath Care service providers. But in practice once the pt is discharged from the hospital, and returned under the charge of the primary doc for ongoing monitoring, assessments don't flow back to the hospital/hospitalists in most cases. Or, at best, indirectly, and therefore not timely. That can be remedied

And so long as risk-adjusted measures are fairly factored in for complex cases and those with known high re-admission rts, the vision is true. Even the decision to re-admit to hospital exposes a pt to heightened risk, and isn't a desirable goal, with no regard to treatment costs. We should not be clamoring for more hospital stays!

Readmission isn't a stand-alone outcome model though important. In practice this can serve to maximize quality of care during hospitalization which is a good thing. Anyone who thinks Medicare guidelines don't chart the course of care for its subscribers already are uninformed. So do those carriers in the pvt sector, btw. It can be, and often is, equally restrictive depending upon your plan. (If you're a politician, for example, the sky's the limit but they are a select few- elite).

I'm not advocating for the Medicare pgm, far from it, but for a large subset it's controlling and entrenched; vigilant oversight and informed debate is vital; the best we can do for now.

Also note these changes are being driven, really, not by Obama or his policy czars but by Balanced Budget Act of 1997. Improving health care delivery seems to be the goal here and outcomes based models are the best measurement tools.

29 posted on 08/24/2012 7:13:20 AM PDT by Dysart (Obama Faults Profit. Reject That.)
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To: circlecity
Medicare will reduce reimbursements to hospitals with high 30-day readmission rates -- which refers to patients who return within a month -- by as much as 1 percent.

Patients who return to the hospital are the ones who need help the most. This little ruling is not only going to cause deaths - it's going to cause massive patient suffering... And it won't save money. Doctors who aren't demons from hell will keep patients in the hospital a few extra days to make sure they don't have to come back. So this newest horror won't even save money. It won't save enough to cover the costs of adding another few hundred thousand inner city gang bangers to Social Security Disability..

For all the horror and misery you liberal elites cause I hope this happens to you when you're sick and in need of care - and I hope it happens to your loved ones... I pray you will reap what you've sown. Eff you Obama, and eff all the horrible liberal control freaks who do you dirty work.

30 posted on 08/24/2012 7:15:01 AM PDT by GOPJ (Politics is war without bloodshed, and war is politics with bloodshed. - Mao Tse Tung. We're at war)
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To: GlockThe Vote

Death Panels.


31 posted on 08/24/2012 7:15:01 AM PDT by Jane Long (Soli Deo Gloria!)
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To: GOPJ
"This little ruling is not only going to cause deaths - it's going to cause massive patient suffering..."

Yet there are some on this thread who think that's a small price to pay for increased "cost efficiencies".

32 posted on 08/24/2012 7:35:11 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity

I’ll answer one more time (just for kicks really).

Using my COPD example, a typical readmit for such a patient is shortness of breath. The hospital will treat the patient for the shortness of breath using palliative measures designed to comfort the patient but which do not really treat the condition. The patient could have stayed out of the hospital and received that same palliative care at a fraction of the cost and the same overall outcome in a different setting or at home. But THAT would be stupid, right?


33 posted on 08/24/2012 7:50:20 AM PDT by the808bass
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To: GlockThe Vote

New tagline...


34 posted on 08/24/2012 7:54:39 AM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (ObamaCare is an assault on the unborn, infirmed and elderly. GOP, repeat this as necessary...)
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To: the808bass

And COPD is the only health condition hospitals treat? And shortness is the ONLY thing even COPD patients go back to the hospital for? Ever? Because you can think of a single instance where readmittance might not be necessary then we kill off everybody else? YOu are one sick puppy - but don’t try going to the hospital more than once to treat it.


35 posted on 08/24/2012 7:58:42 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: GlockThe Vote
I swear, if this bastard gets reelected this country is finished.

I read somewhere that Rush said the country could in fact survive another 4 years of the Kenyan Marxist. I respectfully don't agree.

36 posted on 08/24/2012 8:01:23 AM PDT by Marathoner (GTFO: January 21, 2013)
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To: sickoflibs; GlockThe Vote; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; ...

” RE :”Doctors are concerned the penalty is unfair, since sometimes they have to accept patients more than once in a brief period of time but could be penalized for doing so — even for accepting seniors who are sick.”

This could be an unintentional side effect. What happens if the hospital refuses to admit a patient to avoid this? Do they get sued? Or they just limit how many medicare patients they have in the first place. “

All part of the plan so we all go crawling to fedgov.


37 posted on 08/24/2012 8:58:02 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: sickoflibs
What happens if the hospital refuses to admit a patient to avoid this? Do they get sued? Or they just limit how many medicare patients they have in the first place.

It's easy, they just hang this at the ER and main entrances:

38 posted on 08/24/2012 9:17:24 AM PDT by mkjessup (0bama squats to pee.)
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To: circlecity
It's not even more efficient. Ethical doctors will worry about sending patients home before they're 'sure everything's OK'. That will cost.

As it is now there's safety in allowing people to go home because on the oft chance there's a problem, the patient can come back. This stupidity takes that away. So it will cost more AND likely cause massive suffering.

It's NOT like hospitals are so much fun people can't wait to get back... What are these liberal control freaks thinking?

39 posted on 08/24/2012 9:18:19 AM PDT by GOPJ (Politics is war without bloodshed, and war is politics with bloodshed. - Mao Tse Tung. We're at war)
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To: GlockThe Vote
"Among patients with heart failure, hospitals that have higher readmission rates actually have lower mortality rates," said Sunil Kripalani, MD, a professor with Vanderbilt University Medical Center who studies hospital readmissions. "So, which would we rather have -- a hospital readmission or a death?"

The 'incentive' here would tend to encourage 'death' to the above... Next dems will rewrite laws so patient families can't sue. That's the other shoe. Citizens will still be able to sue doctors until they're taken over by ObamaCare - but they won't be able to sue hospitals. This plan will put the hospitals on the side of government - and pitted against doctors.

Another 'unintended consequence' will be very private hospitals that ONLY take people with private insurance...or seniors with supplemental insurance that covers excess costs.. In short, LIBERAL ELITES will find a way they can opt out of the horror.

In Communists countries, party members were treated as elitist - with the advantage of not having to pay more. Democrat elites will figure that one out... Eff 'em.

40 posted on 08/24/2012 9:37:21 AM PDT by GOPJ (Politics is war without bloodshed, and war is politics with bloodshed. - Mao Tse Tung. We're at war)
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To: txrefugee
Most of the elderly are white - many have money. If they die, Obama gets a cut of the money to redistribute.

I fear Obama wants to kill off white seniors. What other explanation is there for this type of plan? The plan won't save money... good doctors will get around it by keeping marginal patients in the hospital longer.. well, until dems decide to put a stop to that...

If letting seniors suffer to death at home doesn't work, he'll give Social Security offices and NASA enough bullets to kill every citizen 3 times over. Oh, wait, Obama's already done that... We all suspect it's happening... that they're as bad as we think they are...

41 posted on 08/24/2012 3:54:24 PM PDT by GOPJ (Politics is war without bloodshed, and war is politics with bloodshed. - Mao Tse Tung. We're at war)
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To: justiceseeker93; AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; ...

Thanks sickoflibs.


42 posted on 08/24/2012 4:33:43 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: the808bass; GlockThe Vote

So I guess you are in favor of the Liverpool Pathway, aka backdoor euthanasia, used in the UK?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161869/Top-doctors-chilling-claim-The-NHS-kills-130-000-elderly-patients-year.html#ixzz1yK4vrrtd

Well I’m not.


43 posted on 08/24/2012 9:46:24 PM PDT by dervish (ABO)
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To: the808bass

If they could receive the same care at home don’t you think they’d want to? Who in their right mind wants to be in a hospital instead of their home? And if the care was available at home then insurances wouldn’t cover the hospital stay.

You are not making sense in your imaginary scenario.


44 posted on 08/24/2012 9:55:04 PM PDT by dervish (ABO)
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To: dervish

So you don’t work in healthcare. Tell us more about you.


45 posted on 08/26/2012 5:29:10 AM PDT by the808bass
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