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NYPD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire
Fox News ^ | 8-25-2012 | AP

Posted on 08/25/2012 1:50:12 PM PDT by servo1969

NEW YORK – All nine people wounded during a dramatic confrontation between police and a gunman outside the Empire State Building were struck by bullets fired by the two officers, police said Saturday, citing ballistics evidence.

The veteran patrolmen who opened fire on the suit-wearing gunman, Jeffrey Johnson, had only an instant to react when he whirled and pointed a .45-caliber pistol as they approached him from behind on a busy sidewalk.

Officer Craig Matthews shot seven times. Officer Robert Sinishtaj fired nine times, police said. Neither had ever fired their weapons before on a patrol.

The volley of gunfire felled Johnson in just a few seconds and left nine other people bleeding on the sidewalk.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; donutwatch; freepered; gun; leo; nyc; nypd; shoot
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Good shoot?
1 posted on 08/25/2012 1:50:20 PM PDT by servo1969
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To: All


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2 posted on 08/25/2012 1:51:21 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: servo1969; Joe Brower; marktwain

And they say we mere untrained civilians are not qualified to carry firearms.


3 posted on 08/25/2012 1:52:37 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: musicman

I’m no marksman but on a scale of 1 to 10 how do these officers rate ?


4 posted on 08/25/2012 1:55:19 PM PDT by UB355 (Slower traffic keep right)
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To: servo1969
The veteran patrolmen who opened fire on the suit-wearing gunman, Jeffrey Johnson, had only an instant to react when he whirled and pointed a .45-caliber pistol as they approached him from behind on a busy sidewalk.

What a load.

The guy didn't look like he could shoot his way out of a wet paper bag. When he drew his piece, he was holding it just above waist level, and kind of pointing it, instead of aiming it, and he was sort of limp-wristed about it, too.

The cops lost it.

5 posted on 08/25/2012 1:55:28 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: servo1969

Yeah, so our cops shot them. So what? I told you guns were bad - that's why only the 'professionals' should have them. Oh, and might I add that none of the citizens shot had any 16 oz drinks loaded with sugar - and that probably saved their lives.


6 posted on 08/25/2012 1:56:52 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: servo1969

Sounds like New York’s finest could use some brushing up on the use of deadly force.
Seven and nine shots? What happened to the “double tap”? Or even two center body-mass and one to the head if the first two don’t drop the target? Is this not taught in police academies any more?


7 posted on 08/25/2012 2:02:18 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: servo1969

I assume everyone involved was white. Otherwise it would have been construed as a racist incident.


8 posted on 08/25/2012 2:04:03 PM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: UB355
I’m no marksman but on a scale of 1 to 10 how do these officers rate ?

A 2, and they should be at least a 6 or a 7 to be carrying in a heavily populated area.

9 posted on 08/25/2012 2:09:26 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: The_Reader_David
No kidding. In all the NON-POLICE training I have had for IDPA and CCW Classes, it is stressed two shots in the mid section. Pop-Pop, FINGER OFF TRIGGER! Two shots from a nine millimeter center mass with hollow point loads will STOP even a large man.

These guys over reacted and panicked and they cost NINE people serious wounds and a great deal of pain. So much for everyday hero's.

10 posted on 08/25/2012 2:12:03 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: kiryandil

i dunno

16 shots hitting 9 moving targets...

those are some mad skillz

/sarc


11 posted on 08/25/2012 2:22:30 PM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: servo1969

The salient point: they were 8 feet from him and hit 9 other people.


12 posted on 08/25/2012 2:23:49 PM PDT by TangoLimaSierra (To the left the truth looks like Right-Wing extremism.)
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To: TangoLimaSierra
The salient point: they were 8 feet from him and hit 9 other people.

Exactly.

13 posted on 08/25/2012 2:26:12 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: UB355

About a minus 3 or 4.

Definitely a panic shoot with nary an ounce of stress-fire training.

Trillions of dollars into “homeland” security and buttoning down NYC and this is an end result of the quality of performance training.

Sleep well America.

Go ahead - flame away.


14 posted on 08/25/2012 2:37:28 PM PDT by LFOD (Formerly - Iraq, Afgahnistan - back home in Dixie.)
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To: The_Reader_David

If you’ve ever had the occasion to shoot any living thing, let alone a human, unless you can turn the lights out with one in the brainpan, the target simply does not instantly stop most times.

However.......from eight feet and wounding nine others...
Of course NY cops I bet are almost never exposed to stress such as scenario based IDPA, IPSC - USPSA type action shooting.

Unless they have been actively involved in combat, IDPA, IPSC or USPSA a once a year static qualification on a stationary paper target is woefully inadequate - as the results in this shooting have demonstrated.


15 posted on 08/25/2012 2:47:06 PM PDT by LFOD (Formerly - Iraq, Afgahnistan - back home in Dixie.)
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To: TangoLimaSierra
The salient point: they were 8 feet from him and hit 9 other people.

8 ft.? Really? WOW! Sounds to me like they were just ducking, dodging and pulling the crap out of their triggers!

16 posted on 08/25/2012 2:49:53 PM PDT by houeto (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Travis McGee

this guy wasn’t there to train those silly civilians

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmRN00KbCr8


17 posted on 08/25/2012 2:59:24 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: servo1969
NYPD cops have always had a lousy reputation as marksmen. Jeff Cooper told a story about the three NYPD cops chasing a bad guy that wound up in a race across roof tops. The bad guy fired six shots at the cops and missed. The cops fired a total of 33 rounds at the bad guy and missed. They finally caught him when he tried to jump the gap between buildings and didn't quite make it.
18 posted on 08/25/2012 3:06:47 PM PDT by MasterGunner01 (11)
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To: servo1969

16 rounds fired with 10 bullet wounds to Johnson and 9 other people hit by bullets or fragments. 19 hits (at least) for 16 shots is pretty darn efficient. < /s>


19 posted on 08/25/2012 3:10:38 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Recycled Olympic tagline Shut up, Bob Costas. Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!)
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To: SkyPilot

NYPD fired 41 shots at unarmed Amadou Diallo...


20 posted on 08/25/2012 3:13:40 PM PDT by donozark (PLEASE SEE: WWW.AKIN.ORG)
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To: Jim from C-Town

As I said on an earlier thread, those folks who got shot should be glad the cops were using 9mm’s instead of 45’s.


21 posted on 08/25/2012 3:14:25 PM PDT by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
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To: servo1969

One of the NRA’s four basic rules of gun safety is to know your target and what’s beyond. I find is tragically sad that the police - of all people - did not follow this very important rule.


22 posted on 08/25/2012 3:19:55 PM PDT by grundle
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To: KarlInOhio
16 rounds fired with 10 bullet wounds to Johnson and 9 other people hit by bullets or fragments. 19 hits (at least) for 16 shots is pretty darn efficient. < /s>

Three bystanders were admitted to hospitals with direct gunshot wounds. Bullets were removed from two of the victims, implying the third had a through wound.

WaPo says:

"Police officials have said the officers appeared to have no choice but to shoot Johnson, whose body had 10 bullet wounds in the chest, arms and legs."

23 posted on 08/25/2012 3:31:17 PM PDT by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: Travis McGee
They should take lessons from these everyday citizens, who kept their cool when faced with armed robbers... (you tubes)

65-year-old Woman Thwarts Robbery on Jewellery Store in Garden Grove, California (you tube)

Internet Cafe Customer Shoots 2 Robbers In Florida (you tube)

24 posted on 08/25/2012 3:53:45 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: Ken H

This should be mandatory viewing by any one who carries.
The late Col. Jeff Cooper USMC retired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGYttXa0d1k


25 posted on 08/25/2012 4:28:20 PM PDT by glyptol
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To: servo1969

The two officers were protégés of trainer/director Sam Peckinpah.


26 posted on 08/25/2012 4:30:13 PM PDT by Moltke ("I am Dr. Sonderborg," he said, "and I don't want any nonsense.")
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To: donozark
"NYPD fired 41 shots at unarmed Amadou Diallo..."

...19 of which struck Diallo.

If they're now getting 19 hits from 16 shots, the NYPD's percentages are much better today! 46.3% versus 118.7%!

27 posted on 08/25/2012 4:37:11 PM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: servo1969

"That's some nice shootin', boys."
28 posted on 08/25/2012 4:43:01 PM PDT by servo1969
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To: The_Reader_David; All
In reality, you keep shooting until the threat is down and no longer a threat.

I thought the cops did not do too badly, considering they were confronting an armed man at close range who had just murdered a man.

Most people miss when shooting in a gunfight. These officers did better than average. From the video, it appears to me that the closest officer probably got most of the hits. He is shooting two handed, is closer, and seems more focused. The officer who is farther away is retreating and firing one handed. He does not seem as focused.

All three participants are moving. Shooting while moving is difficult.

To me, it appears to be suicide by cop.

29 posted on 08/25/2012 5:33:17 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

All that and you didn’t once mention the 9 who were hit by the police. If I did that to defend myself, I would be charged with some damn crime by the DA.


30 posted on 08/25/2012 5:57:53 PM PDT by XXXoholic
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To: LFOD

“...this is an end result of the quality of performance training...”

Unfortunately, that was probably never one of DHS’ real and measurable objectives. Was such a document ever made public? I honestly don’t remember.


31 posted on 08/25/2012 6:11:13 PM PDT by carriage_hill (Harry Reid [PERVERT-NV] has Vickie-the-goat in lingerie & stiletto heels, tied-up in his office.)
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To: TangoLimaSierra
The salient point: they were 8 feet from him and hit 9 other people.

Good grief - I'm an ole great granny - tooka CC class a couple weeks ago - hadn't shot but about 10 rounds the week before - for over 50 years -

Shot 2 10-round clips with a pistol I'd never touched before - and was further away than these cops were. One round jammed - got off 19 shots. ALL on target - all would've been in 'critical mass." 8 in the center green circle,

geeze - I hope these officers are given some intensive range time - with moving targets.

32 posted on 08/25/2012 6:34:48 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Christian is as Christian does....)
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To: XXXoholic
All that and you didn’t once mention the 9 who were hit by the police.

Many other people were mentioning that. Doing so again did not seem to add to the discussion.

I do not expect perfection. Could they have done better? Probably, but it is easy to criticize after the fact. I do not know that I would have done better. I am told that you never know until it happens to you.

33 posted on 08/25/2012 6:36:33 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: servo1969; All

Maybe it’s time we got guns ‘off the street’ by taking them away from the police.

They can still defend themselves within the confines of the police station – as long as they lock up their guns separately from the ammo.


34 posted on 08/25/2012 6:42:57 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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>> 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire

9 victims hit by police gunfire shot the bystander.

Good lord.


35 posted on 08/25/2012 6:43:12 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: Ken H

ahahahah - best laugh of the day! Thanks for the link!

moral: don’t mess with Grammas -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltT0H3XNmzg


36 posted on 08/25/2012 7:01:18 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Christian is as Christian does....)
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To: servo1969

Sounds like the Keystone Cops to me....


37 posted on 08/25/2012 7:09:41 PM PDT by lgjhn23
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To: servo1969

“Good shoot?”

It was a defensible shoot, but not a good one. Poor marksmanship most likely stemming from lousy training.

I guess NYPD has never heard of IDPA?


38 posted on 08/25/2012 7:37:30 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (WILLARD 2012 - It's not just a campaign, it's a conservative suicide pact!)
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To: servo1969

Anyone know what type of ammo NYPD uses?


39 posted on 08/25/2012 7:43:08 PM PDT by matt04
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To: LFOD

Explains why uncle Sam is buying 1 billion rounds of 9 mm ammo for their paramilitary forces...


40 posted on 08/25/2012 7:53:47 PM PDT by shotgun
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To: matt04

No idea about the ammo but they use NY triggers which have a harder pull.


41 posted on 08/25/2012 8:08:45 PM PDT by USAF80
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To: shotgun

To counter the billion rounds us civilians are buying.


42 posted on 08/25/2012 8:10:13 PM PDT by USAF80
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To: Travis McGee

This is liberals for you. They call our “one shot one kill” operations abroad as baby killing, but it is OK to have their cops pray and spray on US civilians.

It’s why the British do not let their cops carry guns. When you have an army of cops, you cannot manage their professionalism with guns. It’s too expensive and they are too career oriented and completely gay for city hall. They could care less about bystanders, and that is the Bloomberg philosophy for gun control.


43 posted on 08/25/2012 8:16:50 PM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: shotgun

Yep, they shoot in the air worse than hadji.


44 posted on 08/25/2012 8:18:27 PM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: The_Reader_David

No, cops are told that they need to empty the whole magazine so they can later cover their arses in court, crying to the judge: “I was so scared, I kept shooting”. If they do not like emotional shooters in court, it apparently makes them cold blooded killers in court. So, there goes...


45 posted on 08/25/2012 8:20:37 PM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: USAF80; shotgun

USAF80 wrote:
“To counter the billion rounds us civilians are buying.”

Correction, To counter the billion rounds us civilians are buying to add to the already one hundred billion rounds had by us civilized citizens.

Now, in case you think that is an exaggeration, do the math...there are 300 million people in this country. That one hundred billion rounds is only 333 rounds per person, and if one third of ‘we the people’ are armed, that is an army of one hundred million with only 1,000 rounds each. So let’s say that only fifty million of we the people are armed, that is only 2,000 rounds each...before we buy more.

We the people use that for plinking, practice and hunting every year...if we are ‘slackers’.


46 posted on 08/25/2012 8:35:34 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders.)
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To: The_Reader_David

“Sounds like New York’s finest could use some brushing up on the use of deadly force.”

I saw the security video and it looks like they DID hit him in the head at least once...could the bullets have then ricocheted or fragmented and struck the bystanders?


47 posted on 08/25/2012 9:25:41 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: UB355
I’m no marksman but on a scale of 1 to 10 how do these officers rate ?

They hit 10 people with 16 rounds, and their target had 9-10 wounds. Barney Fife would be proud as hell.
48 posted on 08/25/2012 9:26:05 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: MasterGunner01

I suggest the lawyers for those maimed will sue for MILLIONS!! and will include Bloombutt, personnaly, for negligent supervision!! This is a disaster for New York city. BloomButt is directly involved and is a liar in my opinion.!!


49 posted on 08/25/2012 9:36:54 PM PDT by marygonzo
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To: servo1969

I guess the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy has lost another client.


50 posted on 08/25/2012 9:40:35 PM PDT by garbanzo (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine)
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