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Using Semantics to Take Down Conservative Representative Todd Akin
Townhall.com ^ | August 26, 2012 | Rachel Alexander

Posted on 08/26/2012 4:55:54 AM PDT by Kaslin

Liberal pundits are declaring they have no idea what Rep. Todd Akin (R-MO) meant when he referred to “legitimate rape” in an interview this past week. Akin stated, "In cases of legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down." It was an awkward, inarticulate statement, but the substance of it was correct. Explaining what he meant since then would be a bit crude, so he has not been able to adequately defend himself. His attackers have used the awkwardness to pounce on him and pretend they don't know what he meant, or make up even worse explanations.

Does anyone actually believe his critics? It may have been a poor choice of words, but everyone knows Akin was referring to the distinction between what we traditionally consider rape - forcible rape - versus statutory rape and what some claim is also rape, having sex while drunk. Some women will have a one night stand while drunk, admit it to their friends afterwards, then change their mind and declare that it was rape. The FBI updated its definition of rape this year to include the inability to give consent due to intoxication. Any woman who has been drinking can now claim afterwards that she was raped. This may have opened a Pandora's Box considering how many people drink alcohol before sex. The cliché “rape is rape” no longer means what it says. The definition has now been broadened to include any woman alleging rape after she has been drinking.

As for women's bodies shutting down, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that Akin meant that a woman is not going to get aroused if she is forcibly raped, making it difficult to become pregnant. Akin brought this up in order to explain why abortion in case of rape is not necessary. It is very rare that a forcible rape results in a pregnancy, so the issue of whether to permit abortion in the case of rape is mostly a red herring, used for fear mongering. Last week, GOP officials drafting the abortion ban for the party platform, declined to put in an exception for rape or incest. Tellingly, Akin's critics haven't bothered disputing Akin's real message, which is that less than one percent of rapes result in a pregnancy.

Akin immediately apologized for his remarks, clarifying later that he meant “forcible rape.” He has been running 30-second TV ads around the state apologizing. David Roney of Pro-Life Arizona notes that Akin's point was unborn babies shouldn't be sacrificed to punish rapists. Aborting children because they were a product of a rape would have taken the lives of gospel singers Mahalia Jackson and Ethel Waters. Ryan Bomberger, also born of a rape, wrote about Akin for Life News, “ I’m glad such a pro-family, pro-life stalwart, despite a few bumps and lots of scrapes, is not quitting under pressure from hypocritical pro-abortion radicals and spineless Republicans.“ Bomberger listed several crude jokes that liberal celebrities have made about rape, and asks, “Where was the condemnation of Whoopi Goldberg who, on The View, defended film director Roman Polanski’s 1977 drugging and rape of a 13 year old as not “rape rape”?”

It is troubling to see Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, the chairman of the RNC, Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA) and conservative stalwarts like Rush Limbaugh demand the resignation of Akin. Limbaugh himself has been accused of comments that have made him vulnerable to intense criticism. It is reported that high-level GOP officials have told Akin they will no longer help him with fundraising. Many in the GOP have developed a herd mentality and are piling on Akin, asserting that no one can win without establishment support. Sadly, they are shooting their wounded to react so quickly and demand that Akin jump out of the race.

Fortunately, not all conservatives have deserted Akin. Because of the injustice of what has happened to him, Mike Huckabee has come to his defense, assisting with fundraising. It's notable that Akin exceeded his goal of raising $125,000 within a few days. Susan B. Anthony List, a pro-life group, has put out a statement defending Akin.

Prior to Akin's misworded comment, he was leading in the polls over the Democrat incumbent, Sen. Claire McCaskill, who is considered to be the most vulnerable Democrat in the Senate. If his chances are now so dismal, why is Moveon.org calling for Akin to resign? Or why is the liberal super PAC American Bridge 21st Century demanding that Romney drop Huckabee from the GOP convention for supporting Akin? The left is well aware that to put in a substitute candidate now would risk losing the seat, due to the lack of time left to set up a ground game and garner name recognition.

Akin is a solid conservative who voted against No Child Left Behind, despite being pressured in a phone call by President Bush. He has a 97% lifetime rating from the American Conservative Union. A favorite of social conservatives, he obtained a Master of Divinity degree from seminary and has co-chaired the House Prayer Breakfast. No doubt his background is why many are targeting him so viciously.

Most voters will forget about this in a week. Three days after the story broke, McCaskill pulled ahead of Akin in the polls but could not break 50%, according to a Rasmussen poll. Akin can still win, unless Republicans continue to turn on him. “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” The Republican Party could still try to force Akin out up until September 25, by challenging his candidacy in the courts.

When people can't freely express their opinions it is a serious matter. Why isn't an apology sufficient? Why make this into a career-ruining incident? Akin didn't say “rape is ok,” and everyone knows exactly what he meant. Akin told Huckabee that he "misspoke one word, in one sentence, in one day." Wait until it happens to you.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: Missouri
KEYWORDS: acultureoflife; conservative; dncstrategy; lamestreammedia; mo2012; toddakin
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1 posted on 08/26/2012 4:56:02 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

We’ve been over this. He played footsie with the Democrats during the primary. That’s sufficient to bounce him. Same with others.


2 posted on 08/26/2012 4:59:44 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

He does appear to be a Democrat tool. I continue to be baffled by Huckabee and others who support this guy simply because he believes a few of the right things. Does no on in Missouri with a triple digit IQ also believe the right things? This is madness.


3 posted on 08/26/2012 5:01:50 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright ("You Might Be a Liberal" (YMBAL) Coming out Sept 1 by C. Edmund Wright)
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To: Kaslin

If I were a Missourian I would vote for him; that said, he should leave the race for the good of the party, and most of all, for the good of the country.


4 posted on 08/26/2012 5:12:56 AM PDT by luvbach1 (Stop the destruction in 2012 or continue the decline)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

“....I continue to be baffled by Huckabee.....”
****************************************************
Yes, some of us are on to Huckabee. He seems to periodically take actions & speak words that are counterproductive to and hindering of efforts to achieve conservative and support of the Constitution goals.


5 posted on 08/26/2012 5:15:09 AM PDT by House Atreides
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To: Kaslin

6 posted on 08/26/2012 5:21:17 AM PDT by rockabyebaby (We are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo screwed!)
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To: Kaslin

Is the author of this article the same Rachel Alexander who is appealing the State Bar of Arizona’s decision to suspend her license for unethical conduct?


7 posted on 08/26/2012 5:22:23 AM PDT by peyton randolph (Tagline service warranty has expired)
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To: Kaslin

I look at it in the context of some of the crap that’s being flung at other candidates around the nation. In the next district over from mine they’re (Think Progress etc) claiming the candidate was fired from his teaching job because he was abusing students.

Interestingly enough, the “moderate” rumor there is also that he was hand picked by democrats.


8 posted on 08/26/2012 5:27:09 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Kaslin

Since when does a woman need to be aroused to get pregnant?


9 posted on 08/26/2012 5:29:00 AM PDT by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to the tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: Kaslin

Do a Google search on “stress infertility”. The poor guy is getting a bum rap.


10 posted on 08/26/2012 5:31:30 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
He does appear to be a Democrat tool.

I didn't vote for Akin, but to say he is a Democrat tool is beyond ludicrous! I was watching that interview live as it happened and immediately knew that he was talking about "forcible rape." Charles Jaco did not follow up with any comment on it because I believe he knew what Todd meant.

At this point there is no telling where this could lead to with any debates between McCaskill and Akin. IF a moderator brings up this issue Todd could easily nail Claire as the one who is the EXTREMIST. All he has to do is describe a partial birth abortion or describe her lord and master's view on the Infant Born Alive Protection act that Ubama rallied for. The extremist view is the donkey's view. They believe every American should have the right to kill unborn children. When it comes to the economy they believe in the Obama Happy Meal - you walk up to any lunch counter in the USSA and order a meal and the guy behind you has to pay for it!

/rant off

11 posted on 08/26/2012 5:36:10 AM PDT by missnry (The truth will set you free ... and drive liberals Crazy!)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
He sure does, and it seems to me that anyone with just a little bit common sense should recognize that.

The thing that irks the LSM and the left most is, that he is solid pro Life and against abortion

12 posted on 08/26/2012 5:40:04 AM PDT by Kaslin (Acronym for OBAMA: One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: autumnraine

LOL, you caught the rabbit that the author was attempting to make vanish into her hat!


13 posted on 08/26/2012 5:40:26 AM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: autumnraine

I noticed that as well. The only two components required for pregnancy are sperm + mature ovum.

Akin made a terribly poor case for why aborting the child after the mother was raped was criminalized.

He could have mentioned any number of things—that some women who were raped report that having the abortion was like experiencing the rape all over again, that the abortion added to their trauma. That killing the child in no way solves the problem of the criminal father.

Or he could have declined to answer the question.


14 posted on 08/26/2012 5:42:50 AM PDT by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: C. Edmund Wright
I continue to be baffled by Huckabee ....

Never try to understand the 'televangelist' Huckster from a conservative or Christian lens. He's a phony pandering opportunist with big government thinking ...

If it weren't for Huckabee, Fred Thompson would be President right now.

The direction Governor Huckabee would take us in … liberal economic policies … liberal foreign policies … taxpayer funded programs for illegals … that’s not the model of the Reagan coalition, that’s the model of the democratic party.


15 posted on 08/26/2012 5:46:03 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
The poor guy is getting a bum rap.

I would have agreed with you... until he apologized for it.

16 posted on 08/26/2012 5:52:03 AM PDT by tsowellfan (Voting for Obama/Biden is like purposely swallowing two tapeworms)
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To: Kaslin

As I understand it, their state law prohibits bring in another candidate, like Sarah Steeleman, so throwing this guy to the dogs means that liberal McKaskill gets the job.

I got the “legimate” rape comment right off as there are many women who shout “rape” in matters of consensual sex is regretted due to alcohol, or other factors.

Insofar as the female body “shutdown”, he got some bad info somewhere.

The only mistake he made, IMHO, was to even entertain the subject without having his facts straight.

With the plethora of information out there about the great liberal fail, he could have talked for hours without wading into these waters.

I would still have to vote for him, otherwise we get radical McKaskill.


17 posted on 08/26/2012 6:00:00 AM PDT by FrankR (They will become our ultimate masters the day we surrender the 2nd Amendment.)
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To: House Atreides
Yes, some of us are on to Huckabee. He seems to periodically take actions & speak words that are counterproductive to and hindering of efforts to achieve conservative and support of the Constitution goals.

Exactly right. There's more than a lot in common between the two former Governors of Arkansas ...

Note post #15 as well. The 'ghosts' of the 2008 GOP POTUS primary continue to haunt us.

18 posted on 08/26/2012 6:01:44 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: tsowellfan

The Left and it’s facilitators; Feminist, Abortionist and idiot Republicans have made this into a real dog pile of hate and crap....this is what the SOP of the cowardly/unprincipled Romney Repub Party is going to be....a lick spittle load of PC leftism!


19 posted on 08/26/2012 6:04:50 AM PDT by iopscusa (El Vaquero. (SC Lowcountry Cowboy))
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To: Kaslin

you don’t need “semantics” to take him down, just common sense.


20 posted on 08/26/2012 6:05:31 AM PDT by bigbob
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To: Kaslin

The argument about when and what conditions occur during intercourse for conception is at best questionable speculation. While I support his withdrawal.

He might be able to pull this off he he compares his error in judgment to those Progs who support man made global warming and admit his error.


21 posted on 08/26/2012 6:06:23 AM PDT by mosesdapoet (The best way to punish a - country is let professors run it. Fredrick the Great p/p)
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To: FrankR

We have 57 States and no one gets excited, Akin make a slip of the tongue or an outright gaff and we crucify him. Now tell me again there is no double standard. The issues may be different but it’s still a slip or a mistake, if you overlook one you have to over look the other, depending ,of course, what is politically at stake.


22 posted on 08/26/2012 6:09:09 AM PDT by greyfox (If I were a Democrat I'd be pushing for the fairness doctrine too.)
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To: Kaslin
It is troubling to see Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, the chairman of the RNC, Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA) and conservative stalwarts like Rush Limbaugh demand the resignation of Akin. Limbaugh himself has been accused of comments that have made him vulnerable to intense criticism.

That is true (regarding Limbaugh) although his reasoning is that the country is in so much trouble that we cannot risk losing that seat.

Akin comes across to me as a doofus. With all the heat he is getting, I am not sure it is a win to keep him in there. I mean, look at Scott Brown, after all.

23 posted on 08/26/2012 6:09:45 AM PDT by sauropod (Only two of God's creatures can employ the term "we": newspaper editors and men with tapeworms-Hayes)
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To: Kaslin

We wouldn’t be having this quagmire argument if we just had sensible rape-condom laws. If all rapists were required to use condoms, problem solved.

We need to outlaw all naked-member-raping. Rapists who use condoms get a pass. Then we’d be okay.


24 posted on 08/26/2012 6:12:04 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Servant of the Cross

They both came from Hope and they are both dopes!


25 posted on 08/26/2012 6:13:23 AM PDT by sauropod (Only two of God's creatures can employ the term "we": newspaper editors and men with tapeworms-Hayes)
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To: Kaslin
Face it, the MSM is good at what they do. And, for some reason, we seem to fall into even their most obvious traps.

A little history for those who might have forgotten it:

Wikipedia: Macaca

26 posted on 08/26/2012 6:14:21 AM PDT by InterceptPoint (.)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
Do a Google search on “stress infertility”.

The problem is if we're talking about "stress infertility" instead of "USA fiscal infertility", we've lost. As long as Akin is around, the press will distract all campaigns with this crap. This is not the issue for our Country in 2012!

Just imagine the questions for Romney at a future POTUS debate, tell us about "legitimate rape". If Akin withdraws, so do the questions.

27 posted on 08/26/2012 6:14:39 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Kaslin
you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that Akin meant that a woman is not going to get aroused if she is forcibly raped, making it difficult to become pregnant

If anything is worse than Akin's original idiocy, it's this.

I do not want to post links to rebut the above, so I won't, but they exist and there are lots of them.

Sexual response has voluntary and involuntary aspects - let's leave it at that.

28 posted on 08/26/2012 6:15:47 AM PDT by Jim Noble (Diseases desperate grown are by desperate appliance relieved or not at all.)
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To: iopscusa

“The Left and it’s facilitators; Feminist, Abortionist and idiot Republicans have made this into a real dog pile of hate and crap....this is what the SOP of the cowardly/unprincipled Romney Repub Party is going to be....a lick spittle load of PC leftism!”
******************************************************************
I think there are ways we can all be productive and help advance the conservative agenda.

We have an abundance of DESERVING conservative Republican Senatorial candidates who need and would very much welcome our support. The ones that my family and I have chosen to support with our limited time and funds are:

Josh Mandel in Ohio,
Ted Cruz in Texas,
Rick Berg in North Dakota,
Jeff Flake in Arizona
Deb Fischer in Nebraska,
Richard Mourdock in Indiana
Denny Rehberg in Montana
Pete Hoekstra in Michigan

and, possibly:
George Allen in Virginia and others can be added to the list.

I think that all believers in our conservative principles will agree that this is a list of conservative Republicans very deserving of our support and well-wishes for victory in November.

We have significant political battles across the nation and need to remember those. Support these folks to the extent you can.


29 posted on 08/26/2012 6:20:24 AM PDT by House Atreides
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To: muawiyah
We’ve been over this. He played footsie with the Democrats during the primary. That’s sufficient to bounce him. Same with others.

That's a lie. We've been over this. He did no such thing. That's sufficient to make you a prefabricator. Same with others.

30 posted on 08/26/2012 6:22:31 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: mosesdapoet

“he might be able to pull this off if he compares his error in judgement to the progs who support man made global warming”

I forgot to add while bashing Romney on his position of abortion because of rape...


31 posted on 08/26/2012 6:23:23 AM PDT by mosesdapoet (The best way to punish a - country is let professors run it. Fredrick the Great p/p)
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To: Servant of the Cross

If Akin weren’t around, the press would come up with something else. For the press to allow an accurate discussion of the economy is impossible.

There’s only one way to fight against the lies, distortions and political correctness of the left. The way to do it is to call them out on their BS and then we take the ball and move it downfield.

Next time a candidate’s words are distorted like this, our response should be to circle the wagons and ratchet up funding and support for the candidate across the board.


32 posted on 08/26/2012 6:26:59 AM PDT by reasonisfaith (Why do you seek the living among the dead? (Luke 24:5))
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Give me a break. It shouldn’t be baffling why someone would support a good, conservative public servant who made one innocent mistake that did no actual harm to anyone. That’s why truly principled guys who aren’t coldhearted political consultants who would throw any person or any principle under the bus in order to WIN WIN WIN are supporting him. This includes people like Huckabee, Mike Gallagher, Steve Deace and Steve King who have all spoken out in support of Akin’s staying in the race.


33 posted on 08/26/2012 6:34:07 AM PDT by JediJones (Too Hot for GOP TV: Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Allen West and Donald Trump)
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To: Uncle Chip
But the cold hard facts are that HE DID play footsie with them.

This was an open primary as well. THEY chose Akin. There's a reason for that, and it wasn't because they intended to vote for him in November.

34 posted on 08/26/2012 6:34:42 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Huckabee is a tool.


35 posted on 08/26/2012 6:34:58 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: Kaslin

It is reasonable and true to say that the fraction of abortions that result from a rape compared to all other reasons for abortions are vanishingly tiny.

It is illegitimate to try to explain this with a crack pot theory that implies that women who are forcible raped, and get pregnant, probably enjoyed it.


36 posted on 08/26/2012 6:36:58 AM PDT by DManA
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To: peyton randolph
Yes. Is she another conservative who's being attacked by liberals who you're going to throw under the bus, as Michelle Malkin explains her?

http://michellemalkin.com/2012/06/09/bloggers-under-fire-arizona-conservative-lawyeractivist-targeted-by-left-wing-arizona-state-bar/

37 posted on 08/26/2012 6:37:43 AM PDT by JediJones (Too Hot for GOP TV: Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Allen West and Donald Trump)
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To: iopscusa
This has nothing to do with left, right, abortion or life.

It has all to do about stupid comments by a politician.

38 posted on 08/26/2012 6:41:12 AM PDT by tsowellfan (Voting for Obama/Biden is like purposely swallowing two tapeworms)
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To: muawiyah
But the cold hard facts are that HE DID play footsie with them.

Wrong. That she wanted to run against Akin is true but to say that he played footsie with her is a lie. She ran campaign adds attacking all three candidates, including Akin, and criticizing him as "too conservative for Missouri". That commment encouraged conservatives undecided regarding the three running to vote for Akin -- but to go beyond that is a prefabrication unbecoming conservatives on this forum.

39 posted on 08/26/2012 6:42:26 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Servant of the Cross
Just imagine the questions for Romney at a future POTUS debate, tell us about "legitimate rape". If Akin withdraws, so do the questions.

That is absurd. Snuffaluppagus didn't need a Republican to do anything before he asked the Repubs if they supported banning birth control back in January. The idea that the libs will not try to smear the Repubs because Akin withdrawals or for any other reason is just ludicrous. The notion of being more afraid of Akin than of the liberal press is absurd.

40 posted on 08/26/2012 6:45:02 AM PDT by JediJones (Too Hot for GOP TV: Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Allen West and Donald Trump)
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To: iopscusa
a lick spittle load of PC leftism!

A shame that Akin had to cave to them with his apology tour which continues as we speak instead of sticking by what he said.

41 posted on 08/26/2012 6:46:05 AM PDT by tsowellfan (Voting for Obama/Biden is like purposely swallowing two tapeworms)
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To: Kaslin

Ignorance can not be explained or defended. It can only be displayed and akin along with this author are displaying it well.

The only semantics left are whom shall replace akin.


42 posted on 08/26/2012 6:47:18 AM PDT by soycd
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To: Kaslin

He needs to resign for the simple fact tha McCaskill is simply too stupid to be in a position of power.


43 posted on 08/26/2012 6:48:27 AM PDT by nonliberal (Graduate: Curtis E. LeMay School of International Relations)
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To: Uncle Chip

It’s a shame Akin caved to the left with unending apologies.


44 posted on 08/26/2012 6:48:41 AM PDT by tsowellfan (Voting for Obama/Biden is like purposely swallowing two tapeworms)
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To: DManA
It is illegitimate to try to explain this with a crack pot theory that implies that women who are forcible raped, and get pregnant, probably enjoyed it.

His theory said nothing of the kind either when he said or when it was originally advanced by Dr. Willke, head of the NRLC. Both make it explicitly clear they are distinguishing between forcible rape and statutory rape. The notion of enjoyment was not referenced in the slightest. Their theory about pregnancy only applies in a forcible rape, not in a statutory rape where there may be consent from an underage woman.

45 posted on 08/26/2012 6:49:09 AM PDT by JediJones (Too Hot for GOP TV: Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Allen West and Donald Trump)
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To: JediJones
Give me a break. It shouldn’t be baffling why someone would support a good, conservative public servant who made one innocent mistake that did no actual harm to anyone.

I am not sure if you are just naive or overly self righteous. On second thought, both. Please give me a break on the "one innocent mistake" bit. He is a man of well below average intelligence who has never done anything but represented a tiny district and used that office to employ his wife and son. He is the worst possible combination of being a career politician and being stupid. And he was elected by the McCaskill Campaign in a cross over "operation chaos" strategy. You are so naive to miss all that.

46 posted on 08/26/2012 6:49:34 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright ("You Might Be a Liberal" (YMBAL) Coming out Sept 1 by C. Edmund Wright)
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To: reasonisfaith

If it wasn’t Akin it would have been somebody else. The press have been desperate to have a republican scandal to cover 24/7 to take the heat off Obama.
If akin withdraws, the press will find a new victim, on and on tip Sept. If Akin goes, does anybody really think it will stop?


47 posted on 08/26/2012 6:52:37 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (this space for rent)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
He is a man of well below average intelligence who has never done anything but represented a tiny district and used that office to employ his wife and son. He is the worst possible combination of being a career politician and being stupid.

Your smearing of a great conservative Congressman is absolutely unwarranted and disgusting. He represented conservative values in his voting record much better than our presidential candidates Romney and Ryan did. He stood up to the Republican party at the times they went off the fiscal rails in the 2000s. He embodied Tea Party values before there was a Tea Party. If every Congressman voted like Akin we'd be far better off as a country than we are now. Likewise, no one with a voting record like his could be considered stupid. Liberals are the ones who vote stupid.

48 posted on 08/26/2012 6:53:13 AM PDT by JediJones (Too Hot for GOP TV: Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Allen West and Donald Trump)
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To: Uncle Chip; Servant of the Cross
She ran campaign adds attacking all three candidates, including Akin, and criticizing him as "too conservative for Missouri"

With due respect Chipper, you totally missed the psy ops part of the McCaskill campaign. Don't you get what she meant to accomplish by calling him "too conservative" in the middle of a GOP primary? Is this really hard to figure out? No, it's not....

49 posted on 08/26/2012 6:53:13 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright ("You Might Be a Liberal" (YMBAL) Coming out Sept 1 by C. Edmund Wright)
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To: tsowellfan
A shame that Akin had to cave to them with his apology tour which continues as we speak instead of sticking by what he said.

Is this your new position???

50 posted on 08/26/2012 6:54:18 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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